Hey y'all. Im building me a new rifle. My rifle is going to be just like the m40a5 but in 260 rem. Im about to buy either a rem 700 short action or a surgeon 591 short action. Is the surgeon action any better. Thanks
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Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
- Thread starter TANNER THRASH
- Start date
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey y'all. Im building me a new rifle. My rifle is going to be just like the m40a5 but in 260 rem. Im about to buy either a rem 700 short action or a surgeon 591 short action. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Is the surgeon action any bett</span>er.</span> Thanks </div></div>
yes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey y'all. Im building me a new rifle. My rifle is going to be just like the m40a5 but in 260 rem. Im about to buy either a rem 700 short action or a surgeon 591 short action. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Is the surgeon action any bett</span>er.</span> Thanks </div></div>
yes
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
It depends on what you're looking for. Surgeons are fantastic actions; in fact I used one for my 7WSM build and love it. The Surgeon action's integral lug and picatinny rail also take two more variables out of the build equation.
Nonetheless, some very good rifle builders make lasers out of trued Rem 700 actions. I doubt those guys who stake their reputations on an action that didn't work, once it was trued. So the practical advantages of the Surgeon over the Rem 700 may not be that great. So long as you have a great shop doing the build, either one will serve you. The Surgeon will certainly maintain more value over time and be more attractive should you ever try to sell the rig though.
It depends on what you're looking for. Surgeons are fantastic actions; in fact I used one for my 7WSM build and love it. The Surgeon action's integral lug and picatinny rail also take two more variables out of the build equation.
Nonetheless, some very good rifle builders make lasers out of trued Rem 700 actions. I doubt those guys who stake their reputations on an action that didn't work, once it was trued. So the practical advantages of the Surgeon over the Rem 700 may not be that great. So long as you have a great shop doing the build, either one will serve you. The Surgeon will certainly maintain more value over time and be more attractive should you ever try to sell the rig though.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on what you're looking for. Surgeons are fantastic actions; in fact I used one for my 7WSM build and love it. The Surgeon action's integral lug and picatinny rail also take two more variables out of the build equation.
Nonetheless, some very good rifle builders make lasers out of trued Rem 700 actions. I doubt those guys who stake their reputations on an action that didn't work, once it was trued. So the practical advantages of the Surgeon over the Rem 700 may not be that great. So long as you have a great shop doing the build, either one will serve you. The Surgeon will certainly maintain more value over time and be more attractive should you ever try to sell the rig though.</div></div>
I'd agree with that. I have a couple Rem 700s built by GAP and they are very accurate. Once worked over Rem 700s are good actions.
Surgeon has a bunch of nice features though like the one piece bolt handle, side bolt release and the integral recoil lug and 20 MOA rail. Also if you plan on doing a switch barrel the Surgeon would make life alot easier. You can do it with a Rem but the integral lug on the Surgeon is easier to work with.
I have a 591 which I am planning a .243 build off of now. It's my first Surgeon but my team mates have many of them and they haven't let them down. It's up to the buyer if the features are worth the extra money.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends on what you're looking for. Surgeons are fantastic actions; in fact I used one for my 7WSM build and love it. The Surgeon action's integral lug and picatinny rail also take two more variables out of the build equation.
Nonetheless, some very good rifle builders make lasers out of trued Rem 700 actions. I doubt those guys who stake their reputations on an action that didn't work, once it was trued. So the practical advantages of the Surgeon over the Rem 700 may not be that great. So long as you have a great shop doing the build, either one will serve you. The Surgeon will certainly maintain more value over time and be more attractive should you ever try to sell the rig though.</div></div>
I'd agree with that. I have a couple Rem 700s built by GAP and they are very accurate. Once worked over Rem 700s are good actions.
Surgeon has a bunch of nice features though like the one piece bolt handle, side bolt release and the integral recoil lug and 20 MOA rail. Also if you plan on doing a switch barrel the Surgeon would make life alot easier. You can do it with a Rem but the integral lug on the Surgeon is easier to work with.
I have a 591 which I am planning a .243 build off of now. It's my first Surgeon but my team mates have many of them and they haven't let them down. It's up to the buyer if the features are worth the extra money.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
It's a decision of Pay Upfront or Pay-as-You Go.
The Surgeon has a high upfront cost but has many of the custom features and comes straight and true.
The Rem M700 is cheaper but then you have to pay to get it trued and features you want (though it will never have an integral rail).
All said and done, both can shoot VERY well; though all things being equal the Surgeon will always be worth more.
It's a decision of Pay Upfront or Pay-as-You Go.
The Surgeon has a high upfront cost but has many of the custom features and comes straight and true.
The Rem M700 is cheaper but then you have to pay to get it trued and features you want (though it will never have an integral rail).
All said and done, both can shoot VERY well; though all things being equal the Surgeon will always be worth more.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
What are your intended uses and budget. If you are Warren Buffet get the Surgeon why the freak not? Its only money.
Are you a professional shooter with loads of sponsers and an expense account?
Here is my experience.
I have two heavy tactical rifles.
One with
Hart barrel
Adjusted factory trigger
Remington BDL factory bottom metal
HS Precision stock
Glass bedded
Trued remington action
= 1/4 MOA rifle
My other one
Krieger Barrel
McMillian A3 with adjustable comb
Piller and glass bedded
Stiller action
HS bottom metal
Jewell trigger
=1/4 MOA rifle.
They are both 1/4 MOA rifles. Sure my Mac is tougher and cooler but for a Thousand dollars it shoots the same. For hard core tactical use I use my Mac. Like I said, what are your intended uses and budget?
Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
What are your intended uses and budget. If you are Warren Buffet get the Surgeon why the freak not? Its only money.
Are you a professional shooter with loads of sponsers and an expense account?
Here is my experience.
I have two heavy tactical rifles.
One with
Hart barrel
Adjusted factory trigger
Remington BDL factory bottom metal
HS Precision stock
Glass bedded
Trued remington action
= 1/4 MOA rifle
My other one
Krieger Barrel
McMillian A3 with adjustable comb
Piller and glass bedded
Stiller action
HS bottom metal
Jewell trigger
=1/4 MOA rifle.
They are both 1/4 MOA rifles. Sure my Mac is tougher and cooler but for a Thousand dollars it shoots the same. For hard core tactical use I use my Mac. Like I said, what are your intended uses and budget?
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
^^ I'm sure glad that Wade saved me a bunch of typing.
I second everything Wade said, it's 100% true, the resale value especially. I've owned my share of Surgeons, don't currently have one in the safe, but if I was starting a custom build tomorrow the first thing I'd do is order a Surgeon receiver.
^^ I'm sure glad that Wade saved me a bunch of typing.
I second everything Wade said, it's 100% true, the resale value especially. I've owned my share of Surgeons, don't currently have one in the safe, but if I was starting a custom build tomorrow the first thing I'd do is order a Surgeon receiver.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Exactly....there is a reason they are always used for comparison , they are the high mark.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Exactly....there is a reason they are always used for comparison , they are the high mark.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Thank y'all. that was all good help. That was exactly what i was thinking. After buying everything and truing the rem 700 action it would be about the same price as the surgeon. So after doing everything to the rem 700 would it be equal to the surgeon, or would the surgeon still be a bit better.
Thank y'all. that was all good help. That was exactly what i was thinking. After buying everything and truing the rem 700 action it would be about the same price as the surgeon. So after doing everything to the rem 700 would it be equal to the surgeon, or would the surgeon still be a bit better.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I honestly think the biggest problem you'll ever have with a Surgeon action will be finding a vendor with them in stock. I can't imagine building anymore bolt guns on anything other than a Surgeon. For all the reasons above, Surgeons are in high demand.
I honestly think the biggest problem you'll ever have with a Surgeon action will be finding a vendor with them in stock. I can't imagine building anymore bolt guns on anything other than a Surgeon. For all the reasons above, Surgeons are in high demand.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My rifle is going to be just like the m40a5 but in 260 rem.</div></div>
So once you change caliber, action, bolt handle, scope rail and recoil lug...what about it is going to be "just like an M40A5"?
Not busting your chops or anything like that but some folks get very picky about clone builds in which case you would be way off the mark. If you want a solid rifle and are less concerned with having an accurate (in terms of specs) rifle go with the Surgeon hands down.
Also if it matters to you now or later down the line the Surgeons work out better if you want to set it up as a switch barrel as the recoil lug is integral.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My rifle is going to be just like the m40a5 but in 260 rem.</div></div>
So once you change caliber, action, bolt handle, scope rail and recoil lug...what about it is going to be "just like an M40A5"?
Not busting your chops or anything like that but some folks get very picky about clone builds in which case you would be way off the mark. If you want a solid rifle and are less concerned with having an accurate (in terms of specs) rifle go with the Surgeon hands down.
Also if it matters to you now or later down the line the Surgeons work out better if you want to set it up as a switch barrel as the recoil lug is integral.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
if you can afford it get the surgeon , most everything else is not near as good. and aside from people who like to cry about the price theres really no negative to be spoken of in regards to the surgeon actions and how well they perform. i understand not everyone can afford a surgeon action but from someone who owns a surgeon 591 action take my advise they are def worth saving up for you wont regret it.
if you can afford it get the surgeon , most everything else is not near as good. and aside from people who like to cry about the price theres really no negative to be spoken of in regards to the surgeon actions and how well they perform. i understand not everyone can afford a surgeon action but from someone who owns a surgeon 591 action take my advise they are def worth saving up for you wont regret it.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I have a GAP built 260 on a surgeon and RWS built 300 WM on a REM 700. They both work and are great actions. I like the Surgeon better due to the base and recoil lug and bolt handle... either way it comes down to how it is put together. My choice would be surgeon unless you were willing to look at defiance...
I have a GAP built 260 on a surgeon and RWS built 300 WM on a REM 700. They both work and are great actions. I like the Surgeon better due to the base and recoil lug and bolt handle... either way it comes down to how it is put together. My choice would be surgeon unless you were willing to look at defiance...
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
If starting from zero I'd always choose a custom receiver over a Remington 700. I've trued and built rifles on more than a couple of 700's and they're great, if you already have one.
By the time you perform all the work required on a 700 to have all the features that a 591 has, you'll be at a higher dollar amount than the 591. Resale of the 591 will always be higher and while the 700 has been trued, it's still a 700.
591's are thicker and much stronger than a 700, the 591 has an extended barrel tenon, integral recoil lug and 20moa scope rail. The 591 is built like a tank and tough as nails.
For what it's worth, Surgeon and Defiance are my go to receivers for builds, I dont even offer a remingotn 700 built rifle unless it's on a customers receiver.
It's a little more money up front but, in this case you do get what you pay for.
Here's a brake down as I see it to make the 700 simular to the 591.
Remingotn 700
Used purchase at a pawn shop $450 / New $550
Receiver Truing $250
Recoil Lug $45
20 MOA Scope Rail $150
Side Bolt stop/release $150
Bolt Knob & install $95/$125
Bolt flutes $85
Hard Face coating on bolt body $85 or up
Shipping to smith $20
Return Shipping $20
$1,350 to $1,480
You be the judge.
When the LH 591's, 1086 & XL come out, I'll have one or more of each if that says anything.
If starting from zero I'd always choose a custom receiver over a Remington 700. I've trued and built rifles on more than a couple of 700's and they're great, if you already have one.
By the time you perform all the work required on a 700 to have all the features that a 591 has, you'll be at a higher dollar amount than the 591. Resale of the 591 will always be higher and while the 700 has been trued, it's still a 700.
591's are thicker and much stronger than a 700, the 591 has an extended barrel tenon, integral recoil lug and 20moa scope rail. The 591 is built like a tank and tough as nails.
For what it's worth, Surgeon and Defiance are my go to receivers for builds, I dont even offer a remingotn 700 built rifle unless it's on a customers receiver.
It's a little more money up front but, in this case you do get what you pay for.
Here's a brake down as I see it to make the 700 simular to the 591.
Remingotn 700
Used purchase at a pawn shop $450 / New $550
Receiver Truing $250
Recoil Lug $45
20 MOA Scope Rail $150
Side Bolt stop/release $150
Bolt Knob & install $95/$125
Bolt flutes $85
Hard Face coating on bolt body $85 or up
Shipping to smith $20
Return Shipping $20
$1,350 to $1,480
You be the judge.
When the LH 591's, 1086 & XL come out, I'll have one or more of each if that says anything.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Ive bought complete new cutom barreled actions for what some are quoting on truing up a remington reciever. FYI complete ADL guns are for sale for 425 out the door and that includes a scope. LOL
Rich
But I have also bought quite a few guns over the years and pretty much know the cheapest way and which options you actually need.
Ive bought complete new cutom barreled actions for what some are quoting on truing up a remington reciever. FYI complete ADL guns are for sale for 425 out the door and that includes a scope. LOL
Rich
But I have also bought quite a few guns over the years and pretty much know the cheapest way and which options you actually need.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I agree that the overall cost of upgrading a 700 action will be higher with a lower return on investment.
If you have the money upfront, then that is the way to go.
I, on the other hand am poor. I bought a 5R mil-spec, as the out of the box accuracy is sufficient and allows my to build over time. I replaced the trigger with a 1190's era remington factory trigger I had on hand, I had a side bolt release installed (not a neccesity, but works very well)and a Tac-knob installed. I have done this over time so it wasn't such a big hit on my pocketbook. I will eventually have the action trued and a custom barrel installed, but that is after I decide what to install on it.
If you have the money, go custom. If you want a more authentic repro, go remington.
I agree that the overall cost of upgrading a 700 action will be higher with a lower return on investment.
If you have the money upfront, then that is the way to go.
I, on the other hand am poor. I bought a 5R mil-spec, as the out of the box accuracy is sufficient and allows my to build over time. I replaced the trigger with a 1190's era remington factory trigger I had on hand, I had a side bolt release installed (not a neccesity, but works very well)and a Tac-knob installed. I have done this over time so it wasn't such a big hit on my pocketbook. I will eventually have the action trued and a custom barrel installed, but that is after I decide what to install on it.
If you have the money, go custom. If you want a more authentic repro, go remington.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Go with the 591 i own 6 guns built on Surgeon actions and I wouldnt do it any other way. They straight up rock and are well worth the investment!
700's are good but by the time you pay a smith the money to true, square and everything you can have a better action right out the box!
You wont regret it!
Go with the 591 i own 6 guns built on Surgeon actions and I wouldnt do it any other way. They straight up rock and are well worth the investment!
700's are good but by the time you pay a smith the money to true, square and everything you can have a better action right out the box!
You wont regret it!
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
here you go right from mike rock. Gauranteed to be a shooter. Just add a base and bolt knob. M40A guns do not have side bolt release anyway. Plus this has a trigger.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3374770&gonew=1#UNREAD
Rich
here you go right from mike rock. Gauranteed to be a shooter. Just add a base and bolt knob. M40A guns do not have side bolt release anyway. Plus this has a trigger.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3374770&gonew=1#UNREAD
Rich
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Surgeons are superior in every way. There isn't an action I'd trust like I do my Surgeon.
Surgeons are superior in every way. There isn't an action I'd trust like I do my Surgeon.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145<span style="color: #FF0000">You can buy a NF rail from Brownells for $110</span>
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40<span style="color: #FF0000">Maybe, but I've never had the standards let me down.</span>
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100<span style="color: #FF0000">Which is completely unnecessary, but a nice features to have.</span>
One piece Bolt $225 <span style="color: #FF0000">Again, nice to have but not necessary</span>
Recoil Lug $45<span style="color: #FF0000">You can get them for about $35 at Brownells</span>
Remington 700 action cost $500<span style="color: #FF0000">I can go to Wal-Mart and pick up an ADL package for $397.00, sell off the magazine, follower, bottom metal, scope/base/rings, and barrel and recoup $100-200 bringing the price of the action to $197 or so.</span>
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Alright, I'm probably going to have to duck my head for this one:
Granted, you're right, there are some nice features to the Surgeon and its a great action, but I disagree that it takes $1300 to get a Remington on par with one. There's more than one way to skin a cat, it just requires being frugal.
My last GAP build resulted in me buying a 700 "Classic" for $400. I sold the bottom metal for $50, the magazine, spring and follower for about $35, the barrel for $100, and the stock for $100.
GAP charged me (I believe, its been a while), $350 to chamber and true it. I had $110 in the rail, $30 in the lug, and made a deal with a friend to do the bolt knob. I'd put it up with a Surgeon action in accuracy and reliability. There's no reason one can't shop around and have a trued 700 with a recoil lug and rail for under $700. Sure, side release is handy but it isn't necessary and flutes make it slightly smoother and look pretty, but they aren't significantly different...but hey, add $150 for a side-bolt conversion and another $65 for flutes if you really want it.
Seems if you really want the "ultimate" in durability and reliability, you'd just get an Accuracy International AE MK III and be done.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145<span style="color: #FF0000">You can buy a NF rail from Brownells for $110</span>
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40<span style="color: #FF0000">Maybe, but I've never had the standards let me down.</span>
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100<span style="color: #FF0000">Which is completely unnecessary, but a nice features to have.</span>
One piece Bolt $225 <span style="color: #FF0000">Again, nice to have but not necessary</span>
Recoil Lug $45<span style="color: #FF0000">You can get them for about $35 at Brownells</span>
Remington 700 action cost $500<span style="color: #FF0000">I can go to Wal-Mart and pick up an ADL package for $397.00, sell off the magazine, follower, bottom metal, scope/base/rings, and barrel and recoup $100-200 bringing the price of the action to $197 or so.</span>
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Alright, I'm probably going to have to duck my head for this one:
Granted, you're right, there are some nice features to the Surgeon and its a great action, but I disagree that it takes $1300 to get a Remington on par with one. There's more than one way to skin a cat, it just requires being frugal.
My last GAP build resulted in me buying a 700 "Classic" for $400. I sold the bottom metal for $50, the magazine, spring and follower for about $35, the barrel for $100, and the stock for $100.
GAP charged me (I believe, its been a while), $350 to chamber and true it. I had $110 in the rail, $30 in the lug, and made a deal with a friend to do the bolt knob. I'd put it up with a Surgeon action in accuracy and reliability. There's no reason one can't shop around and have a trued 700 with a recoil lug and rail for under $700. Sure, side release is handy but it isn't necessary and flutes make it slightly smoother and look pretty, but they aren't significantly different...but hey, add $150 for a side-bolt conversion and another $65 for flutes if you really want it.
Seems if you really want the "ultimate" in durability and reliability, you'd just get an Accuracy International AE MK III and be done.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here you go right from mike rock. Gauranteed to be a shooter. Just add a base and bolt knob. M40A guns do not have side bolt release anyway. Plus this has a trigger.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3374770&gonew=1#UNREAD
Rich
</div></div>
SOONERS, I know everyone on this thread is screaming to get the surgeon, and FWIW I have a 591 coming my way soon, but this is a good deal you might want to jump on. Throw this in a MCS mini-chassis or an AICS and you'll have a premium rig (minus optics) for just a little over $2K.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SSG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here you go right from mike rock. Gauranteed to be a shooter. Just add a base and bolt knob. M40A guns do not have side bolt release anyway. Plus this has a trigger.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3374770&gonew=1#UNREAD
Rich
</div></div>
SOONERS, I know everyone on this thread is screaming to get the surgeon, and FWIW I have a 591 coming my way soon, but this is a good deal you might want to jump on. Throw this in a MCS mini-chassis or an AICS and you'll have a premium rig (minus optics) for just a little over $2K.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I have many trued remingtons but ONLY because they have alot of sentimental value. They do shoot great.
Since you don't have an action to start with, without a doubt go with the surgeon. If you are willing to consider another action I would do a stiller TAC series. I have many and yes I have a surgeon. Without typing along list of things, stiller is where my money will go from this point forward. They make an AWESOME action and its even priced better than a surgeon......
I have many trued remingtons but ONLY because they have alot of sentimental value. They do shoot great.
Since you don't have an action to start with, without a doubt go with the surgeon. If you are willing to consider another action I would do a stiller TAC series. I have many and yes I have a surgeon. Without typing along list of things, stiller is where my money will go from this point forward. They make an AWESOME action and its even priced better than a surgeon......
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fredjake1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a Stiller predator action used on a custom build and a very experienced smith told me it was one of the best & truest actions he had ever work with.</div></div>
I've had Stillers as well, they don't even compare to a Surgeon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fredjake1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a Stiller predator action used on a custom build and a very experienced smith told me it was one of the best & truest actions he had ever work with.</div></div>
I've had Stillers as well, they don't even compare to a Surgeon.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I have Surgeon, Stiller, and trued 700's.
If you plan to run it hard, get the Surgeon and don't look back.
I have Surgeon, Stiller, and trued 700's.
If you plan to run it hard, get the Surgeon and don't look back.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
First you need to consider what YOU REALLY want and then figure out your budget and timeline and go from there. All of the above actions are great and yes the Surgeon is awesome, so if you like the features of that better and aren't bothered by the price difference then go with the Surgeon. But the Remy will suit your needs and if you have a good smith, will probably be a more accurate gun than anybodies skill level. So just think about it. And one last thing, The Remy has served every branch of the U.S. military for how long and is still going strong, just some more food for thought.
First you need to consider what YOU REALLY want and then figure out your budget and timeline and go from there. All of the above actions are great and yes the Surgeon is awesome, so if you like the features of that better and aren't bothered by the price difference then go with the Surgeon. But the Remy will suit your needs and if you have a good smith, will probably be a more accurate gun than anybodies skill level. So just think about it. And one last thing, The Remy has served every branch of the U.S. military for how long and is still going strong, just some more food for thought.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything?
Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything?
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
He might do it just to make sure but he shouldn't have to, It's kinda like asking a classy hooker if she is on birth control...
He might do it just to make sure but he shouldn't have to, It's kinda like asking a classy hooker if she is on birth control...
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Seems if you really want the "ultimate" in durability and reliability, you'd just get an Accuracy International AE MK III and be done.
</div></div>
That statement reminds me of the closing statement here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn60YWO218k
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Seems if you really want the "ultimate" in durability and reliability, you'd just get an Accuracy International AE MK III and be done.
</div></div>
That statement reminds me of the closing statement here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn60YWO218k
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement.
I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I agree with tylerw02. I agree that the Surgeon is better. Im just not sure that it is better for the weekend hobbiest. It does have nice features but they arn't really necessary.
Like I said above both shoot 1/4 MOA.
Tactical knob not necessary.
Side bolt release not necessary.
$145 for a rail. I'm shooting 1/4 MOA with a weaver for $35.
One piece bolt not necessary.
We all concede that the Surgeon is better. And I will concede that when you put all those features on the 700 can cost more.
Again it is up to the buyer. Do you want or need all those features? Would you rather build over time?
I think the stillers are a great value. They give you the features that you need and are stright and true without all the one piece stuff that the Surgeon has.
I agree with tylerw02. I agree that the Surgeon is better. Im just not sure that it is better for the weekend hobbiest. It does have nice features but they arn't really necessary.
Like I said above both shoot 1/4 MOA.
Tactical knob not necessary.
Side bolt release not necessary.
$145 for a rail. I'm shooting 1/4 MOA with a weaver for $35.
One piece bolt not necessary.
We all concede that the Surgeon is better. And I will concede that when you put all those features on the 700 can cost more.
Again it is up to the buyer. Do you want or need all those features? Would you rather build over time?
I think the stillers are a great value. They give you the features that you need and are stright and true without all the one piece stuff that the Surgeon has.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I don't think the price can be justified for the Surgeon action. Granted Surgeon makes great actions, but Remington actions are used by too many people to be wrong, including myself.
I don't think the price can be justified for the Surgeon action. Granted Surgeon makes great actions, but Remington actions are used by too many people to be wrong, including myself.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything? </div></div>
The answer your question is no. The smith will not have to anything to the action to get it ready to chamber a barrel.
Dustin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything? </div></div>
The answer your question is no. The smith will not have to anything to the action to get it ready to chamber a barrel.
Dustin
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement. </div></div>
How exactly is the m16 extractor a major improvement? Other than ejecting the brass into the windage knob, what does it do that a Remington extractor doesn't do?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement. </div></div>
How exactly is the m16 extractor a major improvement? Other than ejecting the brass into the windage knob, what does it do that a Remington extractor doesn't do?
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
If you already HAD a 700 action laying around then I would say use it since it will run just fine and the build will cost you less (if thats a concern). I have run remmy actions hard and have seen quite a few more Remmys being run in comps and they run just fine. But If you are starting from scratch and are investing in a new action I think its a no brainer...go custom to start with becuase as stated a few times it will cost you near the same to have all the additions added on to it and it still will not be as hearty of an action.
And as William Roscoe mentioned, the resale value will definitely be MUCH better with a custom action. That alone is worth it.
If you already HAD a 700 action laying around then I would say use it since it will run just fine and the build will cost you less (if thats a concern). I have run remmy actions hard and have seen quite a few more Remmys being run in comps and they run just fine. But If you are starting from scratch and are investing in a new action I think its a no brainer...go custom to start with becuase as stated a few times it will cost you near the same to have all the additions added on to it and it still will not be as hearty of an action.
And as William Roscoe mentioned, the resale value will definitely be MUCH better with a custom action. That alone is worth it.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
using a remington 700 is about like building a hunting rifle on a military mauser. the big question is why especially with all the options out there. There is no standard for a "trued" remington in fact IMO it could very well be a bad thing. if the gunsmith isn't good they could monkey up the action and do more harm than good. by the time you spend the money on the action your getting within 2-300 of having a custom action. in the grand scheme of things is that really that much money. Your custom action will maintain its value, vs the remington right off the bat you will loose the trueing costs. plus custom action has a second kind of cool. its not run of the mill and everyone doesn't have one, your friends can drool over it. you can caress it and know you have the best.
also IMO I like the intergral rail and lug, I think that extra metal makes the rifle shoot more consistent, all the legendary accurate factory rifles like the tikka t3 and the remington 788 all had port style solid top actions, maybe thats one of the reasons why
using a remington 700 is about like building a hunting rifle on a military mauser. the big question is why especially with all the options out there. There is no standard for a "trued" remington in fact IMO it could very well be a bad thing. if the gunsmith isn't good they could monkey up the action and do more harm than good. by the time you spend the money on the action your getting within 2-300 of having a custom action. in the grand scheme of things is that really that much money. Your custom action will maintain its value, vs the remington right off the bat you will loose the trueing costs. plus custom action has a second kind of cool. its not run of the mill and everyone doesn't have one, your friends can drool over it. you can caress it and know you have the best.
also IMO I like the intergral rail and lug, I think that extra metal makes the rifle shoot more consistent, all the legendary accurate factory rifles like the tikka t3 and the remington 788 all had port style solid top actions, maybe thats one of the reasons why
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
seriously you guys amaze me, i can apreciate the opinion but a r700 trued up with PTG bolt or just built by a guy who knows how to is a pretty damn stout piece of kit.
i realize why gunsmiths like the custom actions they are easier to work with. if you have the money to spend on a surgeon have at it, but you guys crack me up comparing it to a mauser. with all the military replicas you guys build and lusting over m40a5's and what active SOF shoots you guys still diss on the guns in threads like this.
tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. And next time you go to a match and get your ass handed to you by a r700 just tell him he cheated cuz that r700 is the same as a k98.
seriously you guys amaze me, i can apreciate the opinion but a r700 trued up with PTG bolt or just built by a guy who knows how to is a pretty damn stout piece of kit.
i realize why gunsmiths like the custom actions they are easier to work with. if you have the money to spend on a surgeon have at it, but you guys crack me up comparing it to a mauser. with all the military replicas you guys build and lusting over m40a5's and what active SOF shoots you guys still diss on the guns in threads like this.
tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. And next time you go to a match and get your ass handed to you by a r700 just tell him he cheated cuz that r700 is the same as a k98.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seriously you guys amaze me, i can apreciate the opinion but a r700 trued up with PTG bolt or just built by a guy who knows how to is a pretty damn stout piece of kit.
i realize why gunsmiths like the custom actions they are easier to work with. if you have the money to spend on a surgeon have at it, but you guys crack me up comparing it to a mauser. with all the military replicas you guys build and lusting over m40a5's and what active SOF shoots you guys still diss on the guns in threads like this.
tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. And next time you go to a match and get your ass handed to you by a r700 just tell him he cheated cuz that r700 is the same as a k98.
</div></div>
FTMFW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seriously you guys amaze me, i can apreciate the opinion but a r700 trued up with PTG bolt or just built by a guy who knows how to is a pretty damn stout piece of kit.
i realize why gunsmiths like the custom actions they are easier to work with. if you have the money to spend on a surgeon have at it, but you guys crack me up comparing it to a mauser. with all the military replicas you guys build and lusting over m40a5's and what active SOF shoots you guys still diss on the guns in threads like this.
tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. And next time you go to a match and get your ass handed to you by a r700 just tell him he cheated cuz that r700 is the same as a k98.
</div></div>
FTMFW
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything? </div></div>
Nothing has to be done to the 591, it's ready to go as is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SOONERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the help guys. This might be a stupid question but what all will have to be done to a 591 surgeon action when I have my gun smith put a barrel on it? Like will he have to true anything? </div></div>
Nothing has to be done to the 591, it's ready to go as is.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement. </div></div>
How exactly is the m16 extractor a major improvement? Other than ejecting the brass into the windage knob, what does it do that a Remington extractor doesn't do? </div></div>
Yep, M16 extractors do not get along with windage knobs. I love my 591, they are the best out there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both surgeon and Remington actions. No comparison, Surgeon is superior. Besides what has already been mentioned, the m16 extractor is a major improvement. </div></div>
How exactly is the m16 extractor a major improvement? Other than ejecting the brass into the windage knob, what does it do that a Remington extractor doesn't do? </div></div>
Yep, M16 extractors do not get along with windage knobs. I love my 591, they are the best out there.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues
M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Exactly....there is a reason they are always used for comparison , they are the high mark. </div></div>
As a 591R owner and a 700 owner, I can tell you that there is no comparison between the two. Not only is the Surgeon a better deal financially but flat spanks the 700 when is comes to being simple and solid better piece of gear. Great point on resale as mentioned above.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wade</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swampbuck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course the Surgeon in better. The question is: IS IT $700 better?
That is up the the buyer. Yes it has an integral rail and recoil lug. Yes it has cool bolt flutes and higher resale value. Yes it is tacticool and rock solid.
</div></div>
The Surgeon comes with:
A Picatinny rail that would have to be purchased for the 700 $145
and would be best with 8-40 screw holes $40
Straightness that would require truing on a 700 $200
Side bolt release $100
One piece Bolt $225
Recoil Lug $45
Remington 700 action cost $500
Total price to make a 700 action similar to a 591 $1255
Now if you go look back in the "Rifles for sale" section and see how much better any Surgeon based rig sells the 700 doesn't appear to be such a good value.
Wade Stuteville
Surgeon Rifles </div></div>
Exactly....there is a reason they are always used for comparison , they are the high mark. </div></div>
As a 591R owner and a 700 owner, I can tell you that there is no comparison between the two. Not only is the Surgeon a better deal financially but flat spanks the 700 when is comes to being simple and solid better piece of gear. Great point on resale as mentioned above.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I think guys want a custom action like a Surgeon just because it makes them feel special, and it is a great action. However, to compare the Remington 700 to a military Mauser action is foolish not to mention delusional.
I think guys want a custom action like a Surgeon just because it makes them feel special, and it is a great action. However, to compare the Remington 700 to a military Mauser action is foolish not to mention delusional.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. </div></div>
i guess i should be shitting on 700's too just so there will be more donor actions for me to use.
they do everything i need them to do. for a field rifle, i'm sticking to remington 700 base builds. if i were getting into benchrest, then i'd have a different opinion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tell you what i will happily be the r700 disposal unit for this site, please send me all your outdated, horrible r700's and i will dispose of them properly and happily use and shoot the guns i build on them. </div></div>
i guess i should be shitting on 700's too just so there will be more donor actions for me to use.
they do everything i need them to do. for a field rifle, i'm sticking to remington 700 base builds. if i were getting into benchrest, then i'd have a different opinion.
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
I buy Surgeons because it makes sense financially.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notgnimer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think guys want a custom action like a Surgeon just because it makes them feel special, and it is a great action. However, to compare the Remington 700 to a military Mauser action is foolish not to mention delusional. </div></div>
I buy Surgeons because it makes sense financially.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notgnimer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think guys want a custom action like a Surgeon just because it makes them feel special, and it is a great action. However, to compare the Remington 700 to a military Mauser action is foolish not to mention delusional. </div></div>
Re: Surgeon 591 action vs rem 700 action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues </div></div>
and a remington extractor is good to go as is. or am i missing all the failures caused by them in a maintained rifle?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M16 Extractor + Dremil Tool + Dremil Cut off Wheel + Strategic Cut = no windage knob issues </div></div>
and a remington extractor is good to go as is. or am i missing all the failures caused by them in a maintained rifle?
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