Rifle Scopes SWFA SS specific questions

[Slyexx]

Hello, I'm brand new to long range shooting and back again with some more questions. I'm looking for some answers and opinions on the different models of SWFA SS.

Let me preface this by saying these SWFA scopes are an option for me at a low budget but I'm not 100% sold on them. Please don't let this turn into an argument about other scopes that are better, etc. Looking for opinions/facts from people who have actually spent time behind these scopes. Some questions are more general though, so everyone feel free to pitch in.

----------------------------

My peak interest has been on the fixed 10x version, as that as the one I have heard a lot of great reviews for at the $300 price. So most of my questions are based off that model vs other options.

1. I thought I had seen a few opinions that once you get beyond 10 or 12x on these fixed scopes their quality greatly diminishes. Is this true? ... Does the 12x have just as great reviews as the 10x?

2. To go along with the above. At the $700 price, does the 3-15x still receive high praise? How does this $700 variable scope stack up to other brands at the same price?

3. There are two different models of a lot of their scopes that from what I can tell the only difference being Rear Focus adjustment vs Side Focus knob. The Side Focus is $100 more. Am I missing something and is that really a $100 feature?

4. The HD version of the fixed 10x is $800 vs the standard $300 model. Is that just talking about $500 worth of glass quality or what? If so, is it really worth that $500 jump?


-Joe

 

[cheapmoa]

Get the $300 - 10x-12x and never look back. You won't find more value for the dollar and will get most everything back if you decide to upgrade down the road. I would not buy anything other than that scope in that price range.

When you decide to go to the $1500 price range then you will have options that maintain reliability. Until then don't waste money or time on anything other than shooting.

Just my opinion. ?

 

[Nik H]

1. I think the 10X is the best fixed power they make. I have a couple. I had a 12X and it was pretty nice as well but I liked the 10X better. Sold the 12X and bought another 10X.

2. I can't say I have found a lot of 3-15s at that price point. This scope sits on my Annie 64 MPR. It has for 18 months. I haven't found anything I would rather use at this price point. I hear that Athlon makes something in this price range but have not tried it. The SS 3-15 tracks incredibly well and always returns to zero. Eyebox is a little finicky for some.

3. You probably aren't missing anything. I wanted parallax to be the same as my other scopes so I bought the side adjust.

4. No experience with the HD line. I would rather use that money to buy the variable but that is me.

Oh and BTW, I bought my 3-15 with covers, ZS shims and the bubble level for $600 used from someone here

 

[koshkin]

Hello, I'm brand new to long range shooting and back again with some more questions. I'm looking for some answers and opinions on the different models of SWFA SS.

Let me preface this by saying these SWFA scopes are an option for me at a low budget but I'm not 100% sold on them. Please don't let this turn into an argument about other scopes that are better, etc. Looking for opinions/facts from people who have actually spent time behind these scopes. Some questions are more general though, so everyone feel free to pitch in.

----------------------------

My peak interest has been on the fixed 10x version, as that as the one I have heard a lot of great reviews for at the $300 price. So most of my questions are based off that model vs other options.

1. I thought I had seen a few opinions that once you get beyond 10 or 12x on these fixed scopes their quality greatly diminishes. Is this true? ... Does the 12x have just as great reviews as the 10x? As the magnification goes up exit pupil gets smaller. 12x works well, but I think the sweetspot for general precision shooting for these scopes is really 10x.

2. To go along with the above. At the $700 price, does the 3-15x still receive high praise? How does this $700 variable scope stack up to other brands at the same price? I am not aware of anything with the same consistency and track record for $700. Athon Ares is looking promising, but for now I think the SS 3-15x42FFP is the one to beat.

3. There are two different models of a lot of their scopes that from what I can tell the only difference being Rear Focus adjustment vs Side Focus knob. The Side Focus is $100 more. Am I missing something and is that really a $100 feature? The only difference is the parallax adjustment location. I shoot left handed a fair bit, so I prefer the rear parallax version.

4. The HD version of the fixed 10x is $800 vs the standard $300 model. Is that just talking about $500 worth of glass quality or what? If so, is it really worth that $500 jump? I have the 10x42HD and like it quite a bit, but in terms of bang for the back the classic 10x42 is a better bet. the HD model is built like a tank and has better turrets and better image contrast. It is a little less forgiving in terms of eye relief though, has narrower FOV and does not focus as close. I am not sure if there is a difference between them in durability. Both are among the most durable scopes every built. For someone who already has a SS Classic, SSHD 10x42 is a worthwhile scope to add. If you are new to this product line, go with the Classic.


-Joe

Please see my comments above in red.

ILya

 

[Hondo64d]

Hello, I'm brand new to long range shooting and back again with some more questions. I'm looking for some answers and opinions on the different models of SWFA SS.

Let me preface this by saying these SWFA scopes are an option for me at a low budget but I'm not 100% sold on them. Please don't let this turn into an argument about other scopes that are better, etc. Looking for opinions/facts from people who have actually spent time behind these scopes. Some questions are more general though, so everyone feel free to pitch in.

----------------------------

My peak interest has been on the fixed 10x version, as that as the one I have heard a lot of great reviews for at the $300 price. So most of my questions are based off that model vs other options.

1. I thought I had seen a few opinions that once you get beyond 10 or 12x on these fixed scopes their quality greatly diminishes. Is this true? ... Does the 12x have just as great reviews as the 10x?

2. To go along with the above. At the $700 price, does the 3-15x still receive high praise? How does this $700 variable scope stack up to other brands at the same price?

3. There are two different models of a lot of their scopes that from what I can tell the only difference being Rear Focus adjustment vs Side Focus knob. The Side Focus is $100 more. Am I missing something and is that really a $100 feature?

4. The HD version of the fixed 10x is $800 vs the standard $300 model. Is that just talking about $500 worth of glass quality or what? If so, is it really worth that $500 jump?


-Joe

I’ve had the 6x, 3-9x, 10x, 10x HD and 16x. The 10x HD is the best of the bunch. The turrets are nicer and the glass is definitely better than the regular 10x. Is it $500 better? No. It is not. When I get another, it will likely be the 10x side focus. I don’t expect it to be any better quality, I just find the side focus easier to use.

John

 

[Bender]

The glass on the regular 10x is really quite good, very bright. I’ve never looked through a HD10x but I doubt it justifies its price when the 10x is perfectly capable. Buy it and get used to it. I’ll always have a 10x SWFA.

 

[Slyexx]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Definitely will go with the standard 10x if I go the ~$300 budget route.

Thanks.

 

[Ledzep]

10x is good. I prefer the 12x for this type of shooting, though. Even my variable power scopes I've noticed always hover around 12x. But yeah, either way, seen and owned multiple examples of 10x, 12x, 16x swfa fixed power scopes and all were success stories. Solid scopes for the money.

 

[predator308]

10X better is the best on SWFA SS but if you need a little more magnification 12x would suffice.

 

[pineoak]

koshin/DLO...

people like you, Lowlight, wjm308, HK Dave are what allow the rest of us to buy once, cry once

"Thank you" to you and every other faceless reviewer (except Frank... and every time I read his prose I hear his voice as I read it) person above that has helped me and so many others in regards to sharing your passion, experience, and knowledge

 

[PAYDIRT]

I don't think you can go wrong with the 10 or the 12. Get either and go shoot.

 

[Freddy132]

The 12x with mil-quad is my favorite. The 16x does not seem to be as clear and the eyebox seems much tighter.

 

[xsn10s]

I had the 12X and I liked it. But my application was shooting sagerats in grass. Well the field of view was a little tight. And at the risk of sounding racist the grass looks all the same to me. I traded it for a barrel and will get a 10X next time.

 

[Red_SC]

I’ve had multiple 10’s, 12’s, and 16’s. The 12 is easily my favorite, I currently have 2 of them.

 

[Hrsmn51]

I have 2 of the 3-15's as well as a 5-20HD. I tried the fixed 16 and found it not for me. I have 2 fixed 10's a Leopold and a USO. The SWFA scopes are a great value.
H

 

[patriot07]

I have had 2 of the 16x fixed models and both worked great. I think if you're shooting longer distances, the 10x might feel like not enough magnification IMHO. If you're sticking with 500 yards and in, I'm sure it's fine. I'd maybe consider the 12x as a middle ground. I run the 5-20 HD and if I had to run it at 10x all the time, it would be a major handicap for long range precision work. I do run it around 12x-14x inside of 400 yards though.

The 3-15 is a good scope and it does track reliably, but the glass quality is just mediocre IMHO, although I agree with others who have said that there really isn't anything else in that price range that's better. If it was me, I would either stick with a $300 budget model or move up to the $1000 range IMHO. At $1000, you're looking at a used 5-20 HD, a PST Gen 2, or Burris XTR, all of which are a pretty big step up from the 3-15 for not too much extra money.

 

[patriot07]

Overall though, SWFA provides some fantastic value throughout their entire scope lineup. I will say that since I never shoot left-handed, I'd definitely consider the side focus 10x model. I don't particularly care for the parallax control that my 16x scopes had.

 

[wkelly]

I had one of the 10x for a while.

Decent enough for the price. The mine went well, the adjustments were repeatable, and the picture seemed good. I remember feeling a bit heavier.

 

[PBWalsh]

I never want to be without a fixed 10x from SWFA. Love those scopes. Waiting to mount their 5-20 HD.

 

[TimK]

10X isn't enough for me, so I own the 16X (qty 2) and the 20X. I like variable power, and I like magnification, especially for a new shooter. If it were me in your shoes, I'd pop for the 3-15. It takes quite a while to get to the point where you can align your rifle on a distant target and find it right away at high magnification. The ability to dial down and find it is a big deal. I've looked through them all, and to me the 20X is the only one where the image really starts to suffer.

If you need a zero stop for it, I know a guy...

 

[AMGtuned]

Great info here, thanks to all contributing. I'm considering a 10x myself

 

[CUBUFF89]

I have the fixed 16x and it was my first real "long range" scope. It sits on my 308 and was the first scope where I could dial the elevation turret and have confidence that the adjustment was what I needed to hit a target at longer range. I started on our silhouette range at 520 yards and then moved to the 600 yard range where I now shoot mid-range F class with it. I really like the extra magnification for that purpose and we have plenty of time to get on the target so no need for the zoom feature of a variable.

The eyebox is a little tight and took some getting used to and I wasn't sure at first that I liked it. But once I raised the comb just a little I can get comfortable behind the scope and I really like it now. At $300 it's a great value.

 

[CodenameFatBoy]

I have thier 10× on my remington 700. I am still fairly new to precision and long range shooting but I like it. It is more than enough to learn with. Also, they were built to military spec so I would trust them not to fail. I feel likw it is a solid beginner scope all the way around.

 

[SLG]

I agree with most of what's been written here, though my SWFA experience has been more recent only. However, in the $700 "range" the Bushnell LRHSi deal from GAP, at $750, is likely the best scope for anything close to the money. Period.

On the other end, the SWFA 3-15 SFP costs much less then the FFP model, and I find it to work really, really well. I'm rarely below 15 for any kind of distance shooting, so my reticle is always accurate for me.

 

[patriot07]

I agree with most of what's been written here, though my SWFA experience has been more recent only. However, in the $700 "range" the Bushnell LRHSi deal from GAP, at $750, is likely the best scope for anything close to the money. Period.

On the other end, the SWFA 3-15 SFP costs much less then the FFP model, and I find it to work really, really well. I'm rarely below 15 for any kind of distance shooting, so my reticle is always accurate for me.

I’ve looked though the LRHS and own an SWFA HD. I don’t think the Bushnell holds a candle to it, but that’s JMHO. I’ve come to realize that 2 people who both know what they’re talking about can look at a pair of scopes and have very different opinions about which is better, but I don’t really get all the fuss with the Bushnell. I think it’s a $500 scope that they used to sell for $1k+ and now they sell for $750.

 

[SLG]

I’ve looked though the LRHS and own an SWFA HD. I don’t think the Bushnell holds a candle to it, but that’s JMHO. I’ve come to realize that 2 people who both know what they’re talking about can look at a pair of scopes and have very different opinions about which is better, but I don’t really get all the fuss with the Bushnell. I think it’s a $500 scope that they used to sell for $1k+ and now they sell for $750.

I'm not comparing it to an HD, just to an SS. Which 3-15 HD costs $700?

 

[PBWalsh]

The 10x HD comes in brand new at $800, that may have been what he was refering to. The 5-20 HD is $1,300ish new.

 

[SLG]

The 10x HD comes in brand new at $800, that may have been what he was refering to. The 5-20 HD is $1,300ish new.

Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear in my post, I was only referring to the 3-15 aspect. At $300, the 10X is great, no doubt, but if you want a higher power variable, especially a FFP, I think the bushy beats the SWFA in that price range.

 

[patriot07]

I'm not comparing it to an HD, just to an SS. Which 3-15 HD costs $700?

Yeah I think it's overpriced at that point, but I look at most costs in terms of used prices since that's the way I buy 99% of the time.

I guess if you're looking at new prices, the $750 LRHS is a good deal. Since the SWFA HD is just a hair above it used, that was my justification for comparison. But I'll concede that new/used isn't apples to apples.

ETA: the bushnell at $750 isn't really apples to apples at the $700 SWFA either. You can get that discounted for around $550 at times, and the SWFA HD was on demo for $900 recently, so it's not out of the ballpark to compare the two, if you're comparing the best possible new price for each rather than the best possible bushnell new price to MSRP on the others.

 

[howe0001]

I have the 12x, love it. Dropped my rifle with it once directly on the elevation turret about a year ago. It still tracks perfect and I was making 1000 yard hits with it at Hawks Ridge just this week.

 

[308pirate]

I have owned both the 16X and the 3-15 FFP for several years. The 3-15 is a fantastic value, tracks true, has sufficient optical quality to be a useful GUN SIGHT, and can focus down to 10 yards. The 16X also tracks true but the exit pupil (WTF is an "eyebox") is marginal and makes it very sensitive to head position. That's both good and bad, depending on your POV. The 16X also can focus down to 10 yards.

In hindsight, I would have preferred the 12X over the 16X just for its significantly larger (3.5 mm vs 2.6 mm) exit pupil. You give up 25% in magnification to gain 34% more exit pupil.

 

[patriot07]

I have owned both the 16X and the 3-15 FFP for several years. The 3-15 is a fantastic value, tracks true, has sufficient optical quality to be a useful GUN SIGHT, and can focus down to 10 yards. The 16X also tracks true but the exit pupil (WTF is an "eyebox") is marginal and makes it very sensitive to head position. That's both good and bad, depending on your POV. The 16X also can focus down to 10 yards.

In hindsight, I would have preferred the 12X over the 16X just for its significantly larger (3.5 mm vs 2.6 mm) exit pupil. You give up 25% in magnification to gain 34% more exit pupil.

I thought the 16x was tight when I got it. After getting the rifle stock set up properly, I realized that it wasn’t a scope issue but instead a rifle issue.

FWIW, I owned and shot the 16x for a long time before upgrading. It’s a real nice scope, although the 12x is too. I just don’t see the point in giving up magnification unless you’re going to be using it for hunting. JMHO

 

[308pirate]

I thought the 16x was tight when I got it. After getting the rifle stock set up properly, I realized that it wasn’t a scope issue but instead a rifle issue.

FWIW, I owned and shot the 16x for a long time before upgrading. It’s a real nice scope, although the 12x is too. I just don’t see the point in giving up magnification unless you’re going to be using it for hunting. JMHO

It's a scope issue no matter which way you slice it. Exit pupil diameter = objective lens diameter/magnification.

Optical physics cannot be overcome by stock adjustments. You can setup your stock to make it easier to get your eye lined up with the exit pupil, but you can't make the exit pupil more forgiving than what the scope's optical properties let you.

 

[patriot07]

It's a scope issue no matter which way you slice it. Exit pupil diameter = objective lens diameter/magnification.

Optical physics cannot be overcome by stock adjustments. You can setup your stock to make it easier to get your eye lined up with the exit pupil, but you can't make the exit pupil more forgiving than what the scope's optical properties let you.

56/25 = 2.24. Most high-dollar 5-25 scopes have a smaller exit pupil than the SWFA 16x, but most folks don't find those hard to look through except for when their rifle isn't set up appropriately. That's my point - it's not out of line with other high-mag scopes.

 

[darth_ritis]

I like a finer reticle, and the 12x is finer than the 10x and doesn't seem to give up any brightness or clarity or eyebox forgiveness. I've owned the 6x, 10x, 12x, and 3-15x and the 12x is hands-down best for me. YMMV

 

[SLG]

I think there is some confusion here between exit pupil and eye relief.

In addition, where eye relief is a linear measurement, eye box is basically eye relief, plus the amount of room you have up and down before getting scope shadow.

This isn't bad. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/what-is-a-scopes-eye-box-definition-attempted.98465/

 

[CUBUFF89]

I think we're all saying the same thing. I realize exit pupil is an optical property of the scope. The scope and stock function together with the stock helping to get your eye positioned correctly. I can say for sure that when I added even a little height to the comb my cheek more naturally found a comfortable position that had my eye positioned behind the scope.

 

[Freediver111]

While I may not have as much experience as some posters on this thread, I'll give you my 2 cents for free.
I had a fixed 10X SS rear parallax adj. I liked it, but was not a fan of the glass. I actually preferred my fixed 6x Leupold FX3 in terms of glass.

Ended up buying a used 5-20 HD SWFA on here for $770. Love it! Glass is much better and I'm very happy with it. My buddy loved mine so much he's been on the lookout for a used one for over a month. This weekend SWFA had a 10% storewide sale, so he got a Demo C off the sample list for $860 shipped. Not terrible.

I thought I saw a 3-15 SS in the classifieds for under $500. Not a bad deal, and you might like the glass. Maybe I'm just super finicky when it comes to glass, which seems to be about right since I tend to buy higher end optics (binos, spotters).