In the process of building a switch barrel rifle. This is my first and hopefully best rifle I own. I landed on the bighorn tl3 longaction. Being naive and seeing the three different bolt faces you could swap, I decided I wanted to have 3 different calibers. A plinking caliber, medium for deer and a magnum. When I order my bottom metal and stock I though it would be wise to get the cip+ so I'm not limited on cailber choice. In hindsight and being new to custom actions I never even though about how I would get the smaller cartridges to feed out of the large magazine. Does anyone have any advice for me on this?
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Switch barrel build
- Thread starter Mwhitfld1
- Start date
If all you have so far is the action, my suggestion would be to sell and start over with a short action receiver. It’s going to be challenging to accomplish what you want in a long action.
Short action would be easy… 223, any 308/creed based case, and short mag like Saum or Sherman short in 6.5/7mm.
Short action would be easy… 223, any 308/creed based case, and short mag like Saum or Sherman short in 6.5/7mm.
All Tikka actions are long actions, and my understanding is the mags have a block in them for shorter COAL rounds. But I'm not clear on any other details to make smaller cartridges work reliably in those actions and mags. Someone will be along to educate me on this.
In my opinion, an action isn't truly capable of "switch caliber" unless the action can reliably run multiple calibers with a swap of barrel, bolt/bolt face, and mag. But again, I don't know what I don't know...
In my opinion, an action isn't truly capable of "switch caliber" unless the action can reliably run multiple calibers with a swap of barrel, bolt/bolt face, and mag. But again, I don't know what I don't know...
So i already have the action,stock, bottom metal, and trigger. As for the calibers,I was thinking somewhere in the .223/6.5/.300wm or. 300prc. Which is why I went with the cip+ 3.850 OAL. If I can get the cartridges to be picked up is there a reason why it wouldn't feed properly being the TL3 is control round fed? The whole reason why I wanted to do this switch barrel thing is probably like many other people. I'd like to have a really nice scope/ trigger and action. But I can't do that with multiple guns realistically. Thanks for all the replies back!
Not sure if there are any 223 mags for long action or if it would run well. There is no 338 lapua bolt face for TL3, just ordinary magnum.
You need to define plinker, hunting
and magnum.
223, 270 338LM?
Yep I'm thats why I was planning on running the .300 prc. also I'm pretty new to the rifle world so if anyone has suggestions on caliber choice feel free to chime in. I was going to go with a .300 win mag but a family member that is getting me into reloading said if I go with a belted magnum it can add a step because you have to buy another die to resize the area just above the belt. The medium caliber I am looking for will be used for white tail.
Refer back to the second post. Your long action just won’t do 223 and it might really suck for the medium sized.
I dont really need the long action really but at this point there's no turning back lol when I first started to put it together I was just thinking the short action could limit some options. Now it seems like it's just the opposite. probably should have asked on here before I even started. Oh well guess I'll just have to buy another gun for the calibers I can't get it to run lol wife wifeis going to kill me
There isn’t and their isn’t
That’s why I suggested the op define his needs more closely
He could do something like I do
260, 7 saum and 338 edge that I do in one rifle but 223, 6 arc and 6BR are all options I’m considering on that rifle.
Are you running a long action? I ordered an accurate mag 3.850 magizine that I'm going to play around with and see what calibers I can get to feed out of it with the .470 bolt face. I don't have much rifle experience but I do have quite a bit of fabrication and MacGyver experience under my belt lol. It's worth a shot. Being I've already dropped the coin on everything I have now
For context, I also own a pair of TL3 actions, run them as switch barrel setups and have barrels in 223, a variety of 6mm calibers, and 7 SAUM.... exactly what you are looking to do.
The reason a short action would be so much better is because of caliber choices available for the three TL3 bolt head options. The 223 is absolutely perfect if you want to shoot a lot, inexpensive components, easy to reload for, a ton of fun to shoot. For your middle caliber hunting gun you have 243, 6 Creed, 6.5 Creed, 7-08, 308, and many other capable hunting rounds. For the magnum bolt face you have 6.5 PRC, 6.5 SAUM, 6.5 Sherman Short, 7 SAUM, 7 Sherman Short, and even the WSM cases... all of these can send larger heavy bullets with a fast twist barrel for very long range shooting or large game. My 7 SAUM in my short action TL3 is a legitimate 1 mile capable gun. Longer barrel, 195 grain bullets at 2850 fps.
The problems with sticking with long action are that you completely lose the 223 bolt face option. No magazines, too short to feed, just not likely to work at all. In the 308 bolt face all of your long action cartridges (270, 30-06, 280/AI) are already a bit overkill for white tail. Magazine options are much larger/bulky and not sure what's out there if you wanted a 10 round mag. Certainly would work well as a hunting gun or more powerful option, but really is into the category of large game rifle. A magnum option like 300PRC is certainly a great choice for a very hot long range cartridge, but it's really overkill for most things. Cool if you want to shoot super long range or kill an elk at 1200 yards, or just one-up your buddy's gun because yours is larger.
So if I were in your shoes and wasn't able/willing to back up and start over with a short action, here's what I would do to solve your switch barrel problem.....
Choose 308 as your "plinking" round. Run a heavier contour barrel with a muzzle brake to keep recoil a bit more tolerable. Use medium weight bullets and lighter powder charges... longer barrel life, able to shoot more rounds on a range day, etc. Accurate makes a nice 5 round mag that can run 308 in a long action which might work.
Choose a nice long action cartridge as your do-all hunting round. 280AI is pretty cool and would be capable from whitetail up to elk and beyond. With a heavy bullet it's easily a 1000 yard plus gun (or farther), pick whatever contour you think would be hunting gun appropriate.
For the magnum barrel, I would suggest doing that last. After you've got the long action cartridge running you might find that you don't need/want a more powerful gun. If you did ultimately decide to build a boomer, then 300PRC or 28 Nosler or something similar is fine. Heavy barrel if you want it to be a range gun, light barrel if you want it to be a hunting rifle.
No
A short action
I like to single feed anyways for ELR.
Your not going to be able to feed my 338 edge loads in a long action anyways, they’re 4.25” long.
You could look at 243 for plinking, 280AI for hunting and a 338 or big 30
Your still out of what I’d consider an excellent plinking cartridge.
@Imthatguywithquestions
The second quote I never made- I have no familiarity with the price of Tikka bolts nor Bighorn bolt heads. You made an error- please delete.Thanks for the great response! So even though the Tl3 is control round fed it would end up not feeding right? Excuse my ignorance. I think what you stated here is my best option. Although I'm wishing I would have gotten a short action now I just don't think I'd get my money back out of it :/For context, I also own a pair of TL3 actions, run them as switch barrel setups and have barrels in 223, a variety of 6mm calibers, and 7 SAUM.... exactly what you are looking to do.
The reason a short action would be so much better is because of caliber choices available for the three TL3 bolt head options. The 223 is absolutely perfect if you want to shoot a lot, inexpensive components, easy to reload for, a ton of fun to shoot. For your middle caliber hunting gun you have 243, 6 Creed, 6.5 Creed, 7-08, 308, and many other capable hunting rounds. For the magnum bolt face you have 6.5 PRC, 6.5 SAUM, 6.5 Sherman Short, 7 SAUM, 7 Sherman Short, and even the WSM cases... all of these can send larger heavy bullets with a fast twist barrel for very long range shooting or large game. My 7 SAUM in my short action TL3 is a legitimate 1 mile capable gun. Longer barrel, 195 grain bullets at 2850 fps.
The problems with sticking with long action are that you completely lose the 223 bolt face option. No magazines, too short to feed, just not likely to work at all. In the 308 bolt face all of your long action cartridges (270, 30-06, 280/AI) are already a bit overkill for white tail. Magazine options are much larger/bulky and not sure what's out there if you wanted a 10 round mag. Certainly would work well as a hunting gun or more powerful option, but really is into the category of large game rifle. A magnum option like 300PRC is certainly a great choice for a very hot long range cartridge, but it's really overkill for most things. Cool if you want to shoot super long range or kill an elk at 1200 yards, or just one-up your buddy's gun because yours is larger.
So if I were in your shoes and wasn't able/willing to back up and start over with a short action, here's what I would do to solve your switch barrel problem.....
Choose 308 as your "plinking" round. Run a heavier contour barrel with a muzzle brake to keep recoil a bit more tolerable. Use medium weight bullets and lighter powder charges... longer barrel life, able to shoot more rounds on a range day, etc. Accurate makes a nice 5 round mag that can run 308 in a long action which might work.
Choose a nice long action cartridge as your do-all hunting round. 280AI is pretty cool and would be capable from whitetail up to elk and beyond. With a heavy bullet it's easily a 1000 yard plus gun (or farther), pick whatever contour you think would be hunting gun appropriate.
For the magnum barrel, I would suggest doing that last. After you've got the long action cartridge running you might find that you don't need/want a more powerful gun. If you did ultimately decide to build a boomer, then 300PRC or 28 Nosler or something similar is fine. Heavy barrel if you want it to be a range gun, light barrel if you want it to be a hunting rifle.
@Imthatguywithquestions
The second quote I never made- I have no familiarity with the price of Tikka bolts nor Bighorn bolt heads. You made an error- please delete.
I'm really surprised at how active this forum is, most other forums I'm on it takes a week or more to get a response! Are you saying Tikka mags may do the trick?@Imthatguywithquestions
The second quote I never made- I have no familiarity with the price of Tikka bolts nor Bighorn bolt heads. You made an error- please delete.
You are correct, you would have no way to even hold the rounds to be fed from in the first place.
I'm not saying that at all because I don't know- I was just pointing out how Tikka does it in their rifles.
Hahaha damn, was hoping that was the case. I'm going to go with what Sheldon said and set it up for a medium caliber so u can get it running. Not giving up on the .223 yet though. Going to see what kind of rigging I can muster up to get a mag to work in it. Who knows though maybe I'm wating my time.I'm not saying that at all because I don't know- I was just pointing out how Tikka does it in their rifles.
You could feed .223 out of a CIP profile magazine, depending on just how good you are.
You'll either need to fold up a new box with bigger, longer feed lips and monkey around with all bespoke internals or if you can manage to fit a whole .223 mag INSIDE a gutted CIP mag, you could probably have something up and running that afternoon.
If you need a smaller bolt face diameter they can be bushed down, ejector/extractor positioning could be a bit of a bastard though, it all depends on how much $$$ you want to throw at your machinist.
thats how I picture the first one too lmfao. Prototypes are never pretty. I'm going to first try building a shell around a .223 mag that fits my mag well. Use two cold tacks for trial. Then if I can get it to run smoothly just use small stitch welds. Other thought is taking the cip mag and weld in new lips and a block system like the tikka mags. I'm just surprised no one hasn't brought mag adapters into the market. I get it that some people just run a short action. But for guys like me who don't want to spend the money on multiple platforms it would be great. I think the profit would be high on something like that. Especially with 3d printing these days. Maybe I'll fail but it will be pretty satisfying if I get it to work well.If you're married to this action then you can get to where you want. Kind of. But you will be much happier with a short action.
Call Aaron at Zermat and tell him what you are trying to do. Then, call Matt Stewart at Stewart Rifles. Lots of good builders, but Matt's done a lot wow work for me and always hit it out of the park.
Do a search on here for switch barrel rifles and listen to @reubenski. There's also a gent on here named Carl Ross that has achieved switch barrel perfection.
My personal switch barrel rifle is a 700 LA and I shoot 300WM, 30-06, and 6.5cm. 2 bolts - one magnum and one standard. 223 is most likely relegated to single feed with the LA. Unless you're in love with a long action cartridge then do yourself a favor and stick with the short action.
Call Aaron at Zermat and tell him what you are trying to do. Then, call Matt Stewart at Stewart Rifles. Lots of good builders, but Matt's done a lot wow work for me and always hit it out of the park.
Do a search on here for switch barrel rifles and listen to @reubenski. There's also a gent on here named Carl Ross that has achieved switch barrel perfection.
My personal switch barrel rifle is a 700 LA and I shoot 300WM, 30-06, and 6.5cm. 2 bolts - one magnum and one standard. 223 is most likely relegated to single feed with the LA. Unless you're in love with a long action cartridge then do yourself a favor and stick with the short action.
It's interesting to me to see all this smack talk about cobbling together an aftermarket LA 223 mag, while folks are happily running essentially the same concept in Vudoo/RimX/B-14R actions. OP, since you're willing to tinker with this and sounds like you have the tools to do so, I'd look at one of the AICS-pattern 22LR mags for inspiration. That's what comes to mind when you talk about running a cartridge in a mag that's normally too long for it; just park the case head well forward of the mag rear, and probably put an internal spacer at the rear of the follower to keep it forward and level.
Looking at the guts of my knockoff Vudoo mag, the follower has a tab that rides in a vertical slot in that rear spacer, plus that little button that slots through the follower and lets you pull it down without pressing rounds down on top of each other. That'd be a nice feature to include, although certainly not necessary.
Looking at the guts of my knockoff Vudoo mag, the follower has a tab that rides in a vertical slot in that rear spacer, plus that little button that slots through the follower and lets you pull it down without pressing rounds down on top of each other. That'd be a nice feature to include, although certainly not necessary.
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Ok, fair point, they haven't been flawless, and yeah, a lot of design and trial-and-error went in them. Should've mentioned that, rather than making it sound simple and effortless.
Still, it'd be really cool to see a mag like this, it's gotta be easier to do with a cartridge that has a pointed, jacketed bullet and no rim vs a 22LR. Who knows, someone'll probably make it someday and fail to pay me all the royalties that are my due
That says more about your own abilities than anyone elses. Don't attempt to insult those who have the means to manufacture precision components at home (a box mag isn't a precision component by the way) by lumping all home hobbyists into your extremely narrow minded idea of what can be accomplished at home by the right person.
Skilled individuals have been building some VERY cool shit for a VERY long time in their back garages.
There are genuine hobbyist rocket scientists designing and manufacturing their own components, fuels, guidance systems etc for fucks sake.
I'm not saying that OP could accomplish what he wants by himself, I AM saying that it IS possible to accomplish what he wants.
I suggest you get back in your lane, this concept is obviously above your pay grade.
Magazine feeding .223 in a long action can be done, has been done and will no doubt be done again.
But it’s still a really stupid suggestion in this situation.
OP asked if it can be done.
It can be done, has been done and will no doubt be done again.
He can either try it himself if he thinks he has the abilities, or he can take it to someone else if he decides it's out of his league. If he decides that folding up and modifying a box mag is within his wheelhouse then more power to him, but only he can draw his own conclusions.
But, you know what, you are 100% correct. NOBODY outside of large scale, high volume, heavy manufacturing plants can make anything of quality or precision. Because quality and precision are the two things at the top of the list for every high volume, mass produced, profit driven corporation aren't they?
Oh hang on a second, what about all of those incredible low volume, custom gunsmiths who create the unbelievably precise work out of their back sheds or small industrial estates? According to you they obviously DON'T and CAN'T exist, or do they? Don't forget that every company starts somewhere and not all clever people are interested in starting a company either.
Go back to hacking together your side view mirrors with duct tape and leave deciding what's possible to those that know a thing or two about auto body repairs...
I got your solution right here
Cadex makes a specific M24 setup. Its a LA chassis with short action bottom metal. I had one along time ago and sold it like a fuck boi.
And cadex also have addtional bottom metal for short and long action and you can run a 223rem all the way to any long action caliber with the right sleeve and bottom metal.
Cadex makes a specific M24 setup. Its a LA chassis with short action bottom metal. I had one along time ago and sold it like a fuck boi.
And cadex also have addtional bottom metal for short and long action and you can run a 223rem all the way to any long action caliber with the right sleeve and bottom metal.
