Tactical Adventure Races - Lets Talk Packs

[planebuilder]

After finding several major issues with my Eberlestock LoDrag pack during use at my first two adventure races, I’m in search of a better mouse trap for use at my next event….
I’d like to get first hand opinions on packs some of you guys have used…. Brand of pack, model, what you like, what you dislike, what you would change, or what things you must have in a pack. I’d even like to hear what features/layout your ideal adventure race/long range hunting/extended patrol pack would entail. The more detail the better. Below is my attempt at a critique of the LoDrag after a combine 70 hours or adventure racing, and countless hours of training and hunting with this pack.

The Good: Streamline with few bumps or humps to snag or get in the way. It’s durable, with only slight wear showing, and I do not treat this pack nice. Plenty of molle webbing if you need it. Good padding with comfortable shoulder straps.


The Bad (general complaints): It does not fit my 6’3” frame so I end up carrying 70% of the 40-70 pounds on my shoulders (not good). The organization inside the pack sucks, with only one zip pocket, and two “sleeves” for a laptop (!?!?). There are also two cylindrical sleeves for water bladders….. but a 3L bladder is impossible to fit inside once filled (even harder when the pack is... uh...packed). The straps on the top of the integrated rifle scabbard need to be adjustable (my folded stock makes the thickness of my rifle too thick, so the buckles are useless).


More Bad (specific complaints discovered during my Adventure Racing): Muzzle down carry of the rifle is bad. Because of this arrangement, I wasted 30-40 minutes waiting on my barrel to cool before I could stow it and continue. This arrangement also prohibited me from being able to stow my rifle with the suppressor installed as it was too long. The water bladder needs to be easier to fill while inside the pack, or easier to remove without unpacking the entire pack. For ease of access, the water bottle holders on the sides of the pack need to be canted towards me with the pack on. I’d like shave 1.5-2 pounds off the pack, it’s currently 5.6 pounds empty.

Overall, it’s a decent pack, but ill-suited for my purposes. I have limited experience with other packs, so I’d like to hear what you guys have to say. Again, I'd like specifics, not so much the "I heard ______ was a good pack"....

Thanks.

 

[Delta4-3]

When I went on ruck marches, I all ways bungied a couple bladders to the top of the ruck. It solves a few problems.

 

[Graham]

The LoDrag is too heavy for adventure racing. Get a Kifaru lightweight pack. Put the rifle in the body of the pack, stock downward, then cinch it up.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

After finding several major issues with my Eberlestock LoDrag pack during use at my first two adventure races, I’m in search of a better mouse trap for use at my next event….
.

What are you requirements/criteria for your ideal ruck to have? Depending on what they are can dictate which ones are worth considering along with your height/torso requirements.

 

[planebuilder]

I'm not sure what specifically I am looking for, as I have limited backpack knowledge. I do, however, know what did not work (stated above).

In general, I'd like an efficient way to carry a rifle, easy access to the essentials (nutrition, med pack, water, etc). An integral admin pouch would be nice, but making it modular would allow for fine tuning. A pack that can adjust for my frame is a must ( though I'm not sure how to measure myself to ensure a proper fit)... I'm not sure if an external frame is appropriate or not.

I'll look into the Kifaru, thanks. Specifically, what is it that you like about it?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I think the most important thing to look for is a ruck with an adjustable internal frame to accomodate your height. From there its your choice as to whether you go with a typical cylindrical bag with cinch at the top design or a smaller, compartmentalized version, which typically holds less but may be lighter in weight. Having a gun carrying requirement really limits the manufacturers and packs down to but a few. Eberlestock, Kifaru,Mystery Ranch are the top three, there are a few others but I can't recall them at the moment. One ruck that has recently come out that reminds me of the old Lowe Alpine ruck that was issued at one point is being made by FirstSpear and is capable of carrying a weapon. I have a friend testing one out but from initial looks, it looks like it will be capable of hauling a lot of kit fairly comfortably, I am skeptical on how it will handle carrying a weapon until I hear back from him. You can check it out here: FirstSpear, LLC :: Packs & Bags :: Hotel 23 Pack System™

A smaller lightweigh 3-5 day type pack won't carry a gun typically. Eberlestock is the only one making a small sprint type pack that has a scabard that I am aware of.

 

[matt2143]

Kifaru are light, really hard to beat them in that area. Mystery Ranch have some awesome packs too. I have had several and although they are heavier they are also built to go to hell and back. Also a plus is both Kifaru and MR packs are made in the USA.

 

[LRRPF52]

The guys who were representing Ares Armor at SAC this year had custom-made packs for this type of thing. One of them, a school-trained Marine Scout Sniper, designed and sewed them, using a balanced mix of lightweight and 1000d Cordura, with segmented pouches for the unique equipment list for SAC.



These rucks had muzzle-up rifle/optic sleeves on them on the side, which was balanced on the other side with equally-dense items. They were based around the ALICE pack frame, which will make many with a military background cringe, but when I tried one on, it was very comfortable and snug, with the weight secured better than a lot of the hybrid or internal bar-frame packs. Since weight is an issue, it makes a lot of sense to go with a pack that has strategically-located 1000 Denier Cordura at critical stress points, but not everywhere when 330 Cordura is fine for compartments, faces, pouches, and other non-stress areas.

For these types of events or activities, you already know that you want to keep the weight down to 45lbs or less, otherwise you're driving yourself into the dirt. I personally would consider a vest, since I'm used to living out of mine. I can't think of anything on the packing list for SAC that I couldn't carry in my vest comfortably.

Carbine/Rifle Ammo (I think a smaller cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel and .260 Rem/6.5 CM/6.5x47 are ideal for SAC) I can carry a basic load + in my mag pouches.
4 Quarts of Water
Canteen Cup with stove bottom
Fiskars E-tool
Compasses
IFAK
15 Pro Bar Meal Replacements of varying flavors
Pro bar Bolt energy chews
Granola bars
Trail Mix/seeds
2 Broken-down MRE's
Strobe
Chem lights
Ear pro
Electrical tape
Lighter
Multitool
Mini binos
Cookable emergency meal in Camelbak carrier
Parachute nylon windbreaker
Thin polypro shirt

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I'm not surprised to see an ALICE frame quiet honestly. For as much of a pain in the ass they can be, the ALICE system can and has seen some really good improvements over the decades its been in service. From replacing the frame with an aftermarket one made to fit the ALICE pack, to the improvements on shoulder and hip pads, addition of fastex buckles, and of course the addition of more pockets to carry more shit than anyone could ever need. ALICE and I have spent a lot of time and many miles together. She's not as sexy as some of the new stuff and she can really ride your ass into the ground if you don't get her set up right and she doesn't have all the latest and coolest features but when it comes down to it, she can still get it done.

Somewhere I've got a early Coleman frame made out of some poly/plastic material that was made/modified to fit an ALICE bag on it that is still to this day one of the most comfortable modifications to the system that I've carried. Aside from the different frame , it had many of the features you find on todays rucks with improved shoulders strap systems and a thicker hip/pussy pad that buckled around your web gear. As high speed as some of the rucks are today, the simple bag design of the ALICE has its merits. Throw on some mods like a bottom/side zipper system to allow you to get inside other than going through the top and you've got a very simple yet functional ruck.

 

[Will in UT]

Kifaru was Mountain Smith some years ago when things were made in CO. I have a Mountain Smith Shelter that I bought in oh maybe the middle of the 80's and it got used tons. Over time I had stressed some of the guy out points and they were in need of repair. I sort of wrote it off but then I discovered Kifaru about a year ago and after a couple of e-notes back and forth I sent it to them and in short time it came back repaired free of charge. THAT IS CUSTOMER SERVICE! I have not made a purchase from the new company but will hopefully soon. They make some great gear and offer some very innovative equipment.

https://www.kifaru.net/brains.html

Bill

 

[pinsandpitons]

This is a topic of great interest to me. I'll start by saying that I come to the discussion from the guiding world. Guiding technical climbing trips professionally has required that I spend some quality time under load. Both portering loads, and carrying them while with clients. A rifle has rarely been part of that gear list outside of the SAC and other competitions I've done with my eberlestock gunslinger. Although one could argue that a 48 quart cooler packed with food is an equally awkward load, the requirements are different.

I 'like' my gunslinger, but only in so far as it's the best pack that can carry my rifle too. It's not a great pack. My criticisms of it's design and construction are many, but after sewing on it a bit I've made it as functional as it can be. The biggest (but not only) problem is the scabbard. Which is also it's main redeeming feature. Specifically, the rifle is carried in an efficient way (though it could be better), but the pack by definition is removed from your torso, off balance, and not supported very well. I have lots of great packs that carry 80+ pound loads comfortably, but nothing that carries say 50+ AND a rifle well.

I'm intrigued by the alice frame (or any external frame) for this purpose. I have a reputation among my fellow guides for being one of the only folks that loves the packframe. I would never choose it over a good internal frame for guiding itself, but there's nothing else that can carry the above mentioned cooler, 5 tents, a table, 4 inflatable sleeping pads, two ropes, and a pear tree (the partridge is behind me in a different load). So if a frame could be made to function I'd be stoked.

The things that need to be accomplished by a pack system in this scenario; (in order)
1) Comfortable with 50-60lbs, 75-80% on the hips and the CG around T2 or T3 (thorasic spine)
2) adjustable torso length, and ability to compress and control loads of different size and density
3) carries or can be made to carry the rifle near the back while protecting the weapon from damage. Easy access a must!
4) Simple, rugged construction, not too many straps, buckles, zippers, etc. Molle is OK, but it adds a LOT of weight.
5) enough compartments to organize and keep things where they ought to be (tough to design in, easier to allow end user)
6) molle on the belt and strategic places

I too looked into a vest set-up. I've used a vest with ~20lbs in it for ski-patrol for years, and it's nice for sure if you don't have anything real large. Maybe a chest rig with all the gadgets, gizmos and GORP that you normally use compartments for, and a scabbard / rucksack for larger things. That would keep the load more comfortable for sure. But it does make going prone or taking a break more cumbersome.

I'm really interested in Kifaru. Their stuff looks very well designed. The thing that's kept me out of one thus far is the lack of 'weapon in the pack' features. Maybe there's a reason... rifles should not ever be in packs?

 

[pinsandpitons]

Wow, sorry for the long post. It just kind of came out.

 

[planebuilder]

LRRP, i agree that the Ares guys had a great setup, and the custom/homemade pack is likely what I will end up doing as nothing fits my needs that I can find. My teammate and I were outside with you and the Ares guys when they were hanging pre-race "hydration", and thier custom packs are what started me down this path....

As for rifle carry, I have some ideas, but none will be "easy access" with the pack on. Good or bad, I'd like it sucked up tight to my back as it is the single heaviest item in my pack.

One of the adventure races I'll likely continue to do is the Survival Trial, and it requires a carbine and long gun.... So flexibility in whatever pack I get is a must...

Thanks for the replys guys. I have limited experience under a pack so I appreciate the insight from those more experienced...

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

easy do what they do in golf, just get a tactical sherpa. DONE! your welcome

 

[pinsandpitons]

I do not envision ripping the rifle out while the pack is still on, that's for sure. But easy access in the sense that you don't have to unpack anything else to get to the rifle. This (DEI 1606 Airborne Assault Frame) could be a good frame to build off of.

Other problem with a vest/chest rig is it would be harder to adjust layers.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

This (DEI 1606 Airborne Assault Frame) could be a good frame to build off of.

Other problem with a vest/chest rig is it would be harder to adjust layers.

This frame is similar to what I was describing in my post above. The shape is slightly different but the concept is the same and it too has the improved shoulder straps and hip pads. I haven't used this specific frame but I think something like this with a simple ALICE ruck attached is a pretty good platform to work off of. But then again, I've carried one of these for the better part of 20 years so it is very familiar to me in a way that might not be for someone who doesn't live out of and under their ruck.

As for carrying a weapon, the ALICE has a spot on the top where the two main flap closing straps attach to the bag that you can place a weapon, a LAW rocket or any other item under. The only draw back is that you have the item sticking out horizontally on either side of your body which is only an issue if you are walking through very thick woods or vegetated terrain where it might get snagged. It's not sexy, you can't get your weapon quickly without taking the ruck off but it works and I've carried a M24 that way on more than one occasion. If you have a folding stock, it's less of an issue. I have also seen some creative uses of the sling and the frame as a means of supporting the weapons weight while remaining in front of the person but is far from perfect and not for everyone.

 

[planebuilder]

easy do what they do in golf, just get a tactical sherpa. DONE! your welcome

Ha!! So long as I don't have to pay admission for the extra person, I'm all for it.... these things are expensive enough!!!

 

[planebuilder]

I do not envision ripping the rifle out while the pack is still on, that's for sure. But easy access in the sense that you don't have to unpack anything else to get to the rifle. This (DEI 1606 Airborne Assault Frame) could be a good frame to build off of.

Other problem with a vest/chest rig is it would be harder to adjust layers.

Nice, this is the kind of stuff I am looking for. I'm not wanting to reinvent the wheel, just tailor it to my specific needs.

I'm thinking about getting an old ALICE pack and trying out a few ideas.

 

[wilsonc]

I too used the Lodrag for this year's SAC, but was fairly satisfied with it. I agree that the water pouches are crap, but with some special finagling I managed to get it work with a 100oz. Camelback bladder. One thing I really like is the scabbard. I shot the carbine this year so I'm not sure how the scabbard would work out with a rifle. I kept the scabbard tucked in the Lodrag with the barrel riding above my head.

For last year's SAC I used an USMC ILBE. Which was just ok. We were on a shoestring budget (still are.) so we just used what we had. The pack itself was like 8.5 pounds empty and everything just kinda flopped around even when cinched down with the compression straps. I put the rifle in, stock down and tried to separate and organize everything with pouches. It works in a pinch, but never again. I'll just use that pack for backpacking and overnighters and such.

I did contemplate building on a ALICE frame, Kifaru Omni Yoke, AG platform frame, MOLLE II frame, or something similar attaching a scabbard, pouches, etc. Eventually, I figured in the end I'd spend a lot of money and still have something that weighed as much as the Lodrag or more. Maybe some sort of LBV, and a back scabbard combination might be the ticket? The only problem I see with a chest rig set up is going prone and holding a lot of body heat in during midday sun and strenuous activity. Other than that, I don't know.

If I end up doing SAC next year, I'll probably stick with the Lodrag. I like the way the strap padding is "open" allowing sweat to dissipate and dry faster. You'd be hard pressed to find something lighter than 5.6 pounds and still fill the needs of this type of competition.

Team 1 used Kifaru's lightweight packs, from what John told me he said Kifaru had discontinued the models they used.

After finding several major issues with my Eberlestock LoDrag pack during use at my first two adventure races, I’m in search of a better mouse trap for use at my next event….
I’d like to get first hand opinions on packs some of you guys have used…. Brand of pack, model, what you like, what you dislike, what you would change, or what things you must have in a pack. I’d even like to hear what features/layout your ideal adventure race/long range hunting/extended patrol pack would entail. The more detail the better. Below is my attempt at a critique of the LoDrag after a combine 70 hours or adventure racing, and countless hours of training and hunting with this pack.

The Good: Streamline with few bumps or humps to snag or get in the way. It’s durable, with only slight wear showing, and I do not treat this pack nice. Plenty of molle webbing if you need it. Good padding with comfortable shoulder straps.


The Bad (general complaints): It does not fit my 6’3” frame so I end up carrying 70% of the 40-70 pounds on my shoulders (not good). The organization inside the pack sucks, with only one zip pocket, and two “sleeves” for a laptop (!?!?). There are also two cylindrical sleeves for water bladders….. but a 3L bladder is impossible to fit inside once filled (even harder when the pack is... uh...packed). The straps on the top of the integrated rifle scabbard need to be adjustable (my folded stock makes the thickness of my rifle too thick, so the buckles are useless).


More Bad (specific complaints discovered during my Adventure Racing): Muzzle down carry of the rifle is bad. Because of this arrangement, I wasted 30-40 minutes waiting on my barrel to cool before I could stow it and continue. This arrangement also prohibited me from being able to stow my rifle with the suppressor installed as it was too long. The water bladder needs to be easier to fill while inside the pack, or easier to remove without unpacking the entire pack. For ease of access, the water bottle holders on the sides of the pack need to be canted towards me with the pack on. I’d like shave 1.5-2 pounds off the pack, it’s currently 5.6 pounds empty.

Overall, it’s a decent pack, but ill-suited for my purposes. I have limited experience with other packs, so I’d like to hear what you guys have to say. Again, I'd like specifics, not so much the "I heard ______ was a good pack"....

Thanks.

 

[RobertB]

I'm torn right now between kifaru and eberlestock. I think I might order 2. One day pack style and one 3 day type. Right now I work out of a 3day pack and carry a day pack empty that I can throw a few small things in if I only need to be out for a short time. But with rifle in drag bag I want a consolidated system. I am always cutting weight and excessive bulky junk out of my system.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I've heard a few mention of vests/chest rigs in the thread and I'd like to point out that there are other options other than a vest ,such as the old school LBE which can easily be worn with a ruck sack and isn't a heat issue that a vest can be. The benefit I can see for a LBE style system would be that you could carry a smaller and or lighter ruck as most of the gear needed for these types of challenges could be spread out to the LBE. While this doesn't have a means of carrying the weapon, it is another alternative. I use the following set up from TYR, its called the COMA. I've attached a small 2-3 day pack to the back panel but it and the back panel can be removed completely if so desired. It also allows you to attach a camel back bladder which is easier to get to for refills than one inside the ruck itself. It opens up and lays flat for laying in the prone and it takes a second to don/doff so if you're worried about layering/overheating issues, it's no big deal to take off quickly.

It's not a complete solution but it is a partial one as it allows you to distribute the load differently and carry a smaller and or lighter ruck or even a Butt pack if you don't have gear that requires a bigger container.

 

[pinsandpitons]

I'm thinking about getting an old ALICE pack and trying out a few ideas.

Cool. Let me/us know how it goes. Half the problem with this topic is that it takes so much experimentation and the results are so personal. I've always been a tinkerer with my gear, and I'm so picky when it comes to the fit and function of stuff, that by the time I'm done modifying a pack for example, it's almost nothing like it started. I'm happy to learn from your experiences!

I like the way that Mystery Ranch clamps the weapon between the suspension and the load, but I'm a little skeptical about the apparent need for a frame of sorts on both sides. A floppy bag full of shit is a giant PITA to deal with, so when the "clam" is open, you're going to want a "frame" of some type for it too... = more weight and complexity. Even so, that arrangement is the one that I'll try first if I get the gumption up to build something on that new USMC frame.

Planebuilder; what do you use for a machine? I've got a couple, but the one that is most indispensable for this kind of thing is my Singer 29K.


PS; One more thing. Alice frames are so bulky! The whole reason that internal frame packs are better (they are) is that they carry the load closer to the body. An Alice is never going to feel... "tight". I'd at least try the gen 3 Molle frame. FWIW

 

[planebuilder]

Pins, whatever pack I build will just be a prototype as the machine I have (an old kenmore, circa 1950) will not handle the thicker material. Also, my talent at sewing is lacking... Once I have the design "finalized", I'll take it to a local seamstress to fabricate from Cordura, etc.

I appreciate the suggestion of using an internal frame, as I have gone back and forth between internal/external since I started thinking about this. Light weight/low profile is a must, but at Survival Trial, there is the possibility of picking up a 60lb prize basket early during the race, so the pack should be capable of carrying 100-110 pounds.

Whatever I end up with will likely be modular to allow me to fine tune it to the given competition...

 

[planebuilder]

I've heard a few mention of vests/chest rigs in the thread and I'd like to point out that there are other options other than a vest ,such as the old school LBE which can easily be worn with a ruck sack and isn't a heat issue that a vest can be. The benefit I can see for a LBE style system would be that you could carry a smaller and or lighter ruck as most of the gear needed for these types of challenges could be spread out to the LBE. While this doesn't have a means of carrying the weapon, it is another alternative. I use the following set up from TYR, its called the COMA. I've attached a small 2-3 day pack to the back panel but it and the back panel can be removed completely if so desired. It also allows you to attach a camel back bladder which is easier to get to for refills than one inside the ruck itself. It opens up and lays flat for laying in the prone and it takes a second to don/doff so if you're worried about layering/overheating issues, it's no big deal to take off quickly.

It's not a complete solution but it is a partial one as it allows you to distribute the load differently and carry a smaller and or lighter ruck or even a Butt pack if you don't have gear that requires a bigger container.

P03, I like that a lot, any idea on weight for that setup while empty?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

P03, I like that a lot, any idea on weight for that setup while empty?

The 2-3 day pack is the heaviest part, the rest is just a war belt with suspenders and pouches. I'd guesstimate total weight of everything pictured roughly around 4-5lbs if that. TYR's website lists the COMA (no back panel)at 1lb 15ounces, the back panel adds .53lbs, the 2-3 day pack is about 2lbs I estimate athe assorted pouches at 1/2 lb

 

[pinsandpitons]

I appreciate the suggestion of using an internal frame, as I have gone back and forth between internal/external since I started thinking about this. Light weight/low profile is a must, but at Survival Trial...........

What I was trying to say is that unless there's a definite need for external frame, an internal will always be lighter and more comfortable. BUT, the newer external frames like the USMC one I keep referencing, have a little bit of both worlds, and strapping a big awkward/heavy load will always be easier on an external.

Thanks for bringing up a good topic, I'm re-energized to go and start sewing on my gear again.

 

[jonesturf]

I don't know if its been mentioned but there are a lot of custom sewing companies for this kind of stuff. Check out diytactical.com. Sign up and you can see some of the builds. Here is one in particular that relates to what you are looking for:

Sniper sustainment pack mk 2 Coyote Brown

Maybe one of them will be able to help you out.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I don't know if its been mentioned but there are a lot of custom sewing companies for this kind of stuff. Check out diytactical.com. Sign up and you can see some of the builds. Here is one in particular that relates to what you are looking for:

Sniper sustainment pack mk 2 Coyote Brown

Maybe one of them will be able to help you out.

I recall seeing a picture of Jacob from RO using a similar looking design for carrying a weapon. I've thought about doing something similar with the COMA system I posted above simply by adding a TYR dump pouch (which has a large opening and rolls away)and securing it with straps the same way. I'll have to see if its even feasible to do with my set up and more importantly, how it feels/rides when moving.

 

[planebuilder]

I don't know if its been mentioned but there are a lot of custom sewing companies for this kind of stuff. Check out diytactical.com. Sign up and you can see some of the builds. Here is one in particular that relates to what you are looking for:

Sniper sustainment pack mk 2 Coyote Brown

Maybe one of them will be able to help you out.

Awesome!! Thanks for the link, looking at those builds has me pumped to get started.

On a side not, does anyone have experienced or have an opinion on either the KUIU or Tenzing carbon fiber frames?

 

[jonesturf]

No problem. I skipped a bunch of posts and didn't notice you had an old machine. Is it metal? I just bought an old 1950's Pfaff 130 sewing machine for $25 on CL. Supposed to be the cat's ass for sewing thicker stuff like Cordura.

I have a bunch of recommended needle sizes and thread sizes to use if you're interested. PM me. Also check out Rockywoods for fabrics and stuff: Rockywoods Outdoor Fabrics

Please don't flame me for my less manly comments in this post. It's sewing for guns so it's cool. I've taken enough shit from my buddies for having a sewing machine in my living room now.

 

[Graham]

 

[Papa Zero Three]

OK, I mocked it up real quick and it works. I tried the KRG and AICS 1.5 with harris bipods both butt and barrel in the dump pouch and they both fit no problem with room to spare. The TYR dump pouch also has a nylon foreskin collar inside of it that can be cinched down with the cord lock so you can close the top of the bag off around the gun if you want.

For the mock up I didn't have 2ea fastex straps handy so I just used the one black one pictured. I would recommend using 2ea straps just to hold everything secure and reduce any movement. When worn, it does pull you upright with the weight around the hips but it's not awkward feeling. I would definitely readjust my current suspender setting with the gun in the pouch to compensate for the change in the weight but otherwise it felt good. I didn't do anything like jog or run with it but if it was cinched down good enough, I think it wouldn't bounce around and beat you anymore than a ruck would when doing the same. When I have time, I'm going to take this for a walk in the desert to see how it pans out and what , if any, issues or limitations it has.

 

[jonesturf]

PZT - That looks good! I might have to try that as well. I really need a folder.

Graham - What is that tube? Is it just a cover? And do you have any idea who makes those scope caps?

 

[jonesturf]

Nevermind it looks like a Tenbraex.

 

[Graham]

It's a can on a DTA, and the caps are Premier on a Premier.

 

[jonesturf]

Cool thanks. My BC caps suck. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[gmz71]

Tag. Thanks for the ideas guys.

 

[pinsandpitons]

No problem. I skipped a bunch of posts and didn't notice you had an old machine. Is it metal? I just bought an old 1950's Pfaff 130 sewing machine for $25 on CL. Supposed to be the cat's ass for sewing thicker stuff like Cordura.

I have a bunch of recommended needle sizes and thread sizes to use if you're interested. PM me. Also check out Rockywoods for fabrics and stuff: Rockywoods Outdoor Fabrics

Please don't flame me for my less manly comments in this post. It's sewing for guns so it's cool. I've taken enough shit from my buddies for having a sewing machine in my living room now.

You're in good company. My Singer is my pride-n-joy and sits in my living room.

I've got 4 machines. I get flak for it too... until my friends need something fixed. I did some simple repair for a few friends years ago, and now I barter for things all the time.

+1 for Rockywoods.


That looks very workable P03. How much have you carried it? It looks like it would put you down a little with the rifle leveraged out off the back. Still, compact, simple set-up for between stages.

Edit: I had the 130 confused... deleted my stupid comments. Wish I could do that in real life!

 

[planebuilder]

Jonesturf, it's all metal, and weighs about 50 pounds... I'd like to hear any tips you have for sewing this stuff. I broke 4 needles several weeks ago trying to sew a double layer of nylon strap for a watch band I was making...

 

[planebuilder]

P03, that looks good. The only issue I would have is the muzzle down carry due to the heat of my suppressor after 4+ shots.... Other than that, it is getting close to what I'd like to make.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

P03, that looks good. The only issue I would have is the muzzle down carry due to the heat of my suppressor after 4+ shots.... Other than that, it is getting close to what I'd like to make.

Muzzle up or muzzle down, your choice, both the KRG and AICS fit in the TYR drop pouch in both modes of carry.

 

[Dogtown]

Wow, great thread, guys!

 

[MGC]

even the exigent pack would work. Remember keep the weight down and only bring what you need to survive. FirstSpear, LLC :: Packs & Bags :: Packs :: Exigent Circumstance Pack (ECP™)

 

[jonesturf]

Jonesturf, it's all metal, and weighs about 50 pounds... I'd like to hear any tips you have for sewing this stuff. I broke 4 needles several weeks ago trying to sew a double layer of nylon strap for a watch band I was making...

I haven't been able to use mine yet but from what I gathered you want to use the biggest needle possible that fits your machine. Minimum I think that was recommended was a size 16. I was able to grab a Scmetz size 18 here on ebay: Schmetz Leather Sewing Needles 130 705H 15x1 HAx1 Sz 18 | eBay

Its a leather needle. I also grabbed a denim one to try too. Not sure which will work better but they both should be ok.

As far as thread goes I grabbed some nylon thread on ebay in earth colors for less than $5 shipped. I didn't see the need to buy 8 miles of thread yet until I know what I need. I got some T-70 nylon which I think what was recommended by most. Aslo if I remember correctly it's recommended to use 6 holes per inch when threading the heavy stuff. If you google sewing cordura or sewing nylon webbing a bunch of stuff should come up.

As far as learning about your machine I bet there is a yahoo user group specifically for older Kenmore machines. Try and google that too. The yahoo user groups have loads of info specific to your machine. I'm hoping to get to try sewing some stuff soon. My machine froze up immediately after I got it. Needs a good tear down.

Pinsandpitons: Sweet Singer! Maybe you have additional experience/comments for sewing the heavy stuff.

Keep us posted. Interested to see what you come up with.

 

[pinsandpitons]

Often the reason that needles break is that they got bent before. The most common way that needles get bent, is that they contact the bobbin plate. That most often happens when the operator is feeding (moving material) during the downward stroke of the needle bar. In other words, let the machine do the feeding work.

Leather needles are for leather. They have a triangular tip that acts as a chisel, cutting the leather as it passes through. Using these with nylon is not recommended as they cut fibers rather than parting them. Denim needles have a sharp point that will pierce nylon just fine, but won't damage the fibers. If you're sewing nylon, use the size denim needle needed for the size thread you're using. Maybe one size bigger if you're going through 4+ layers. Use the slide test to figure out the needle size your thread calls for.

 

[jonesturf]

Nice pinsandpitons. Where were you when I was researching all this stuff? Good info. Like I said I had only done a few hours of research online. Rather hear it from someone who knows from experience. That last time I used a sewing machine was 4th grade and I'm pretty sure I got sent to the prinicpal's office for an incident involving scissors. I was a little hyper until I grew up at about 29 years old.

As an aside...what do you use for the padding that goes into the backpads or straps on backpacks or to fill a padded battle belt? Something like a foam mesh?

 

[pinsandpitons]

Closed cell foam works best cause it will give without collapsing. Go buy a plain ensolite foam pad (not a ridge-rest) and cut it up for your needs. If you're looking for something thinner than the 1/2" sleeping pad, you can buy online but it's more expensive that way. There's all kinds of stuff out there. Google "3d spacer mesh".

 

[pinsandpitons]

BTW 500 cordura has a melting point of around 400F, I wouldn't worry too much about melting it with a suppressor. A mag-dump out of a .223 then stuck right in the pack might be an issue, but 4 from a larger caliber bolt gun shouldn't be an issue. Besides why are you shooting without a mirage cover anyway?

 

[planebuilder]

Pins, you got me thinking, I need to verify how hot my suppressor actually gets.... I know it's WAY too hot to touch, but I don't know how hot...

And I do have a mirage cover, it only took a couple of outings to the range for me to realize I needed one. Unfortunately it doesnt cover the front of the suppressor so there is still the potential to possibly melt whatever material I use.

Thanks for all the tips guys, there is no doubt I have a lot to learn and this is all good great info.

 

[SRSDriver]

PZT - That looks good! I might have to try that as well. I really need a folder.

Graham - What is that tube? Is it just a cover? And do you have any idea who makes those scope caps?

That is my partner and I during the 2012 SAC. That is a DTA with a carbon fiber forearm and a suppressor, carried on the outside of a Kifaru KU pack. It worked well, but we changed things up. My partners pack in that picture is an X3 lo-drag. He didn't use that pack this year.

This year we both used the Ku3700 - The suspension is amazing with a heavy load, and the packs are amazingly light. When I'm going to be doing stupid shit with a pack, (Like carrying 5 gallon buckets of rock up hills ala Spartan Death Race) I use a kifaru zulu. I've carried loads that are biomechanically stupid in that pack, and while slow, they let me get things done that I would otherwise have to hand carry.

Now, the super cool thing is that the suspension between the Zulu and the KU packs is super similar, and _feels_ identical. So I leave train with the zulu, save the Ku for long trips where it counts and I can't bail out if I wreck myself.

The Ku line of packs is no longer manufacturered, but you will find the same frame in Kifaru's bikini frame - It's light, and has the advantage of the Ku weight, but has an insane cargo capacity. You pick the bag you want to go along with it (many sizes), or add other pods/pockets/pouches/load carrying gear.

At the spartan death race last year, we used the zulus to carry bags of concrete, 5 gallon buckets full of road base, 18"x40" logs, and an insane load of firewood. If they took my pack away in that race (as they had done in the past), I would have had a hard time finishing.