Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

[cazorp]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>Because most of the PRS guys are sport shooters who favor highly-customized rigs and the 6mm/6.5 calibers.

Their custom actions are tactical actions, not too tight to operate in the conditions found at matches. They don't (usually) shoot in the snow in cold weather. </div></div>

But getting an AI to shoot really well in 6/6.5 mm isn't that difficult, all you need is a good barrel, I should know

 

[Graham]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

With 6.5x47, running high pressures, you might need a firing-pin hole bushing as well.

 

[cazorp]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Im running 6XC in my AI so I dont need any of that..

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>

The US Army, USMC, and SEALs have used Blueprinted Remington Actions for Decades... most of the actions being used are not much tighter then that.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>

They are heavy and most of the top guys are sponsored by smiths who make them lighter rifles.

If you look, some are moving to carbon fiber chassis, but mainly it's a weight issue, as well as a cost one.

I know I switched to a lighter AI Chassis rifle as my AW was not set up for the type of match I was gonna attend. With all the run and gun, the extra weight adds up.

 

[kevinjs1]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>

My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND. </div></div>

New guy here. I just bought a Huber trigger. What is a ND?

 

[ANGLICOMarine]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Negligent Discharge

 

[DIBBS]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Jason and Rich, thanks for putting this summary together. Very informative.

 

[Jimichanga]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Wow, H4350 and 105 Berger Hybrids.

Not much 115 DTAC love.

I will have to go look at the Bushnell HDMR.

Thanks for compiling the data.

 

[B.A.C.]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Are the guys running Vipers or Razors?

 

[superde]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remmy5R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are the guys running Vipers or Razors? </div></div>

Razors

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

What about barrel length?

I'm interested in the 6 Creedmoor as I've seen the GAP10's running 23's. Are these guys running 28+/- barrels like on the 243's?

 

[Dustin Morris]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Most are 24"-28" with the majority being 26".

Dustin

 

[Rob01]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Well that can't be. Everyone knows you can't manouver around obstacles or swing around a barrel that long to make multiple shots. It says so on the Internet that you need a short barrel so that must be true.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know there was a thread in the semi-auto forum, but what kind of real-world velocity does a 6mm Creedmoor push 105s to from bolt guns like those used by PRS competitors? </div></div>

For the PRS finale, everyone had to stay below 3150 fps.</div></div>

I see Copper Creek's 105 Hybrid ammo chronographs at 3050fps from a 23" gas gun.

Is it then safe to assume that from a 26" bolt action the 6mm Creedmoor can attain 3150fps pretty easy with 105s?

 

[darkstar]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well that can't be. Everyone knows you can't manouver around obstacles or swing around a barrel that long to make multiple shots. It says so on the Internet that you need a short barrel so that must be true. </div></div>

Ha. When I first joined up here on SH, I got a bad case of "short barrel envy", but I got over it and moved on.

I went right to the brake list. That is the one thing I would like to add to my 27 1/4" barrel pogo stick.

Thanks for the info Jason.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Is it then safe to assume that from a 26" bolt action the 6mm Creedmoor can attain 3150fps pretty easy with 105s? </div></div>

Easily.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Thanks for the info Rich/Jason.

Don't think I'll go sell anything that I have but I might buy some Bergers for my 243 to see how they shoot. Got plenty of 4350 laying around.

 

[Indypendent]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Is Wade's AWC brake annotated under 'OTHER' in the brake graph?

 

[Hennig]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>

My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND.</div></div>

Just to jump back to this - I was going to grab a Huber for my new build. Any more info regarding the ND issues?

 

[D_TROS]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I have used Huber (actually have 2 of them) for 2 years and have never had a ND. A Huber will never have a ND that is the fault of the trigger. NDs happen when you think you need a 1 lb match trigger and put your finger on the trigger before you are ready to fire your weapon.

I can see where it might be easier to have a ND due to fact the triggers first stage doesnt reset once pulled resulting in a easier pull on the 2nd stage, but again, ND are a result of too light a trigger pull and poor/nonexistant finger control. NOT a design of the trigger.

Regards,
DT

 

[Dustin Morris]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hennig</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>

My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND.</div></div>

Just to jump back to this - I was going to grab a Huber for my new build. Any more info regarding the ND issues? </div></div>

From the few I've been around(less than 5) they would all bump fire as in you bump the butt of the rifle on the ground and the hammer falls. It's that simple. That was enough for me to decide that they arnt for me.

Dustin

 

[turbo54]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular?

 

[cazorp]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular? </div></div>

1. You don't need a brake when shooting 6XC.
2. Since it wont require a brake

Jokes apart, I think that 6XC is gaining in popularity due to extremely good inert precision, without the fuzz of using small primers, such as 6,5x47 etc. mild recoil and really good BC with 105's. Why go bigger when not required basically?

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular? </div></div>

1. They are unpopular to some. Basically because they are not shooting partner friendly on the line. Unless you like a eye full of sand and such. That being said I use a brake on my 6XC. I can usally spot my impacts ans misses easier while using a brake. In the real world of tactical match shooting you are not shooting off your belly most of the time. Shooting in weird positions and off barricades in high winds the brake really helps.

2. The 6XC is popular because it works great!!
a. Norma brass is only 75.00 per hundred
b. It very easy to get to shoot in the .2s or below
c. It very powder efficent
d. Low recoil
e. With the Berger 105 Hybrid it is extremely flat shooting
f. For most matches these days the speed limit is 3150 fps. It is easy to push a 6xc with 105s around 3100. So you are close to the speed limit but dont have to worry about "getting a ticket"(Most shoot bugholes around the 3060 mark it seems.
g. Good barrel life
h. THIS IS TO BRING OUT ALL THE HATERS........I feel if you built 10 custom 243s and 10 custom 6xcs.....I feel that you will find the 6xc has a slight accuracy advantage. (now its time for the haters to post)

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I will add that the 6mm creedmore is gaining extreme popularity. Its a great round IMO. It has all the benifits of the 6xc with Hornady offering cheaper brass. It will get you more speed than a XC because of slightly more powder capacity

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle".

 

[Mike]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular?</div></div>

1. People don't like laying next to them.
2. People like throwing money away.

 

[SFree]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>

This was obviously a failed attempt at sarcasm...

 

[Dustin Morris]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular?</div></div>

1. People don't like laying next to them.
2. People like throwing money away. </div></div>

^^^ You always have a way with words.

My opinion on why the 6xc/6creed are more popular now is because the 105 hybrid is so long that its very difficult to run a 243 and seat them at mag length in a AICS mag and be able to chase the lands at all. Basically a 0 FB reamer is needed and that is not really ideal. It's been done for sure but xc/creed are much easier to shoot out of an AICS mag than a 243 with the 105 hybrid. I shot lapua brass in my 243 so it's actually cheaper for me to use 6xc.

Dustin

 

[Mike0341]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

looking at the OP i think it would be cool to see a competition where everyone used the same rifle/scope/bullet combo. that way the competition would be a lot more about the shooter and not about who has the bigger pocket book or the best gear.

maybe there are already bolt gun competitions out there like that but I'm not too sure.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse my ignorance, but...

1. why are brakes so unpopular?
2. Why is 6xc so popular?</div></div>

1. People don't like laying next to them.
2. People like throwing money away. </div></div>

Are shooters scrunched together while shooting the PRS matches?

If so, am I to understand shooters are forgoing a degree of recoil control out of courtesy to other shooters?

Serious questions.

I know that 105s @ ~3000fps is low recoil, but less recoil is always easier than more...

 

[turbo54]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

To me, this suggests these fellows have both more money than time, and lots of money.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

At Gunsite in Oct we shot on paper at 1500 and I had 6" of vertical with factory Hornady,

Saved $2500 and all I had to do was learn to shoot.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

At Gunsite in Oct we shot on paper at 1500 and I had 6" of vertical with factory Hornady,

Saved $2500 and all I had to do was learn to shoot.

</div></div>

Just think, Frank... you COULD of had 2.5" of vertical, if only you had the rube Goldberg powder measure!

 

[Dustin Morris]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

At Gunsite in Oct we shot on paper at 1500 and I had 6" of vertical with factory Hornady,

Saved $2500 and all I had to do was learn to shoot.

</div></div>

$2500 won't get it.

If you've got more time than you've got money you have no need for a Prometheus anyway. (Nothing needs to be read between the lines here) My point is is that the accuracy is incredible no doubt but the speed is where it pays. For a guy like me that has 3 small children and a demanding job it's worth every penny.

Dustin

 

[cazorp]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

I really don't get this, I use a Chargemaster 1500 and shure enough it throws 0,1 grains, but I cannot see any impact on my muzzle velocities?

Let go I'm not all that into reloading, I consider it being a neccesary evil, but I usually find a load that gives me a solid tack driver out to 300 meters.

If I can't see the ES differing more than 15-20 fps over the chronograph, how should a Prometheus II improve this?

 

[cazorp]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike0341</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking at the OP i think it would be cool to see a competition where everyone used the same rifle/scope/bullet combo. that way the competition would be a lot more about the shooter and not about who has the bigger pocket book or the best gear.

maybe there are already bolt gun competitions out there like that but I'm not too sure. </div></div>

Thats a bit like saying "hey, lets arrange a race where we put the best nascar/indy/formula 1/rally car drivers in a nascar, and see who is the best?"

Problem being, you need to find a solution which gives no one of the shooters a clear advantage based on previous skills.. so muzzle loaders, perhaps?

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

very interesting

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

I really don't get this, I use a Chargemaster 1500 and shure enough it throws 0,1 grains, but I cannot see any impact on my muzzle velocities?

Let go I'm not all that into reloading, I consider it being a neccesary evil, but I usually find a load that gives me a solid tack driver out to 300 meters.

If I can't see the ES differing more than 15-20 fps over the chronograph, how should a Prometheus II improve this? </div></div>

The Gen2 is accurate to less than a 1/3 kernel of Varget/H4350, and will deliver the desired charge in the 8-10 second range, over and over again, less time reloading means more time shooting, my SD is 3 fps, with a ES of 7 for my current load in my 260.

Frank large case cartridges like 338lm are very forgiving and don't require exact powder charges, little cases is where it comes in to the picture, kinda like pointing bullets, little 223 and 6mm pills show a marked improvement from pointing, where the bigger ones like 30cal pills show little to none.

All I was doing pointing out the comon reloading scale/system these guys are using, something else to think about beside which 6mm cartridge to chamber your next rifle with.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Don't be a bunch of haters. The Prometheus simply works and works well. It's expensive, but when you're anal about your reloading and short on time then the Gen II really shines.

 

[doubled]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to point out in the top 24 there are are 9 Gen 2 Prometheus users, one Gen 1, there are probably more but 10 for sure, Wade said it best, "my first time out at 1100 I had 3.5 inches less verticle". </div></div>

At Gunsite in Oct we shot on paper at 1500 and I had 6" of vertical with factory Hornady,

Saved $2500 and all I had to do was learn to shoot.

</div></div>

I am pretty sure that most of the guys that run them know how to shoot very well. Just because they dump their powder differently, with a more expensive device doesn't do jack shit when you are all contorted up, on the clock and trying to pull of your next impact. The simple fact is that the Gen II is a precision machine designed to reduce loading time and increase consistency load to load to load. That’s it. It’s not a magic elixir. My time is limited and it’s valuable. The simple fact I can dump 100 rounds out faster than 25 on a charge master is the selling point for me….

The Prometheus doesn't sprinkle magic wind dust on each bullet and allow for divine intervention in the wind. It's simply less bench time and more trigger time. Isn't that how you learn to shoot?

 

[D_TROS]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hennig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional

Just to jump back to this - I was going to grab a Huber for my new build. Any more info regarding the ND issues? </div></div>

From the few I've been around(less than 5) they would all bump fire as in you bump the butt of the rifle on the ground and the hammer falls. It's that simple. That was enough for me to decide that they arnt for me.

Dustin </div></div>

So let me get this straight, your idea of a good trigger must pass the "slam rifle on ground" test to see if safe?

Have you ever heard of the conservation of momentum?

When would this "slam rifle scenario" ever happen in real life?

I went home and tested both my hubers and all my other triggers set at or under 2 lb. They all functioned (ie fired) except the Huber set above 2 lb when hit into the ground.

If thats how you test triggers, remind me never to shoot anywhere near you.

I have still not heard one reason that a Huber has ND's that isnt the fault of the unsafe user. But dont get me wrong, I would love a Jackson, but they a little pricey and hard to come by right now. And if there is a reason these triggers have ND's, I want to know so I dont have to get disqual'd from a match, or even worse, potentially harm someone from a faulty trigger.

Regards,
DT

 

[Mike0341]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike0341</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking at the OP i think it would be cool to see a competition where everyone used the same rifle/scope/bullet combo. that way the competition would be a lot more about the shooter and not about who has the bigger pocket book or the best gear.

maybe there are already bolt gun competitions out there like that but I'm not too sure. </div></div>

Thats a bit like saying "hey, lets arrange a race where we put the best nascar/indy/formula 1/rally car drivers in a nascar, and see who is the best?"

Problem being, you need to find a solution which gives no one of the shooters a clear advantage based on previous skills.. so muzzle loaders, perhaps?</div></div>

no its not. i clearly stated it should be about skill not about gear so any previous skill the shooter has would just mean he or she is a more skilled shooter.

because currently right now the way a lot of these seem to be is getting a bunch of nascar drivers (F1 drivers would be using semi auto so wouldn't be competing with the nascar guys lol) and giving each one of them a random budget and saying "spend all of it on your race car". the driver that got paid 1000 bucks might be a really good driver but his budget won't allow him to build a rifle that can compete with the driver that almost as good but with a $6000 budget.

take the Marines for example. we all shot the same M16s while i was in and we all shot out to 500 yards with iron sights. so the people who shot the best were the ones who were the most skilled not the ones who had the best equipment.

i just think a bolt gun competition like that would be cool. take the guy who won the competition and give him a off the shelf SPS tactical for example and see if he still wins the competition. does it mean he isn't a skilled shooter if he didn't win? no it just means the other guy has better gear.

 

[dieselgeek]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

When would this "slam rifle scenario" ever happen in real life?


DT</div></div>


Uhhh dropping a rifle from a deer stand, or from an obstacle would be two major things I can think of.


Not to mention slamming the bolt home when cycling.

 

[dieselgeek]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike0341</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike0341</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looking at the OP i think it would be cool to see a competition where everyone used the same rifle/scope/bullet combo. that way the competition would be a lot more about the shooter and not about who has the bigger pocket book or the best gear.

maybe there are already bolt gun competitions out there like that but I'm not too sure. </div></div>

Thats a bit like saying "hey, lets arrange a race where we put the best nascar/indy/formula 1/rally car drivers in a nascar, and see who is the best?"

Problem being, you need to find a solution which gives no one of the shooters a clear advantage based on previous skills.. so muzzle loaders, perhaps?</div></div>

no its not. i clearly stated it should be about skill not about gear so any previous skill the shooter has would just mean he or she is a more skilled shooter.

because currently right now the way a lot of these seem to be is getting a bunch of nascar drivers (F1 drivers would be using semi auto so wouldn't be competing with the nascar guys lol) and giving each one of them a random budget and saying "spend all of it on your race car". the driver that got paid 1000 bucks might be a really good driver but his budget won't allow him to build a rifle that can compete with the driver that almost as good but with a $6000 budget.

take the Marines for example. we all shot the same M16s while i was in and we all shot out to 500 yards with iron sights. so the people who shot the best were the ones who were the most skilled not the ones who had the best equipment.

i just think a bolt gun competition like that would be cool. take the guy who won the competition and give him a off the shelf SPS tactical for example and see if he still wins the competition. does it mean he isn't a skilled shooter if he didn't win? no it just means the other guy has better gear. </div></div>

There are already competition like that. If a shooter thinks he can't do well in an "open rifle" because of his finances than he should try to shoot the other kind of matches.


I'm on my 3rd custom rifle,and I still suck!


*edit

I'd like to add that sponsors are what help pay for this sport. If everyone can only shoot a SPS tactical w/ a 10x scope, no one is going to want to pitch in. Companies want to see their gear being ran on the field. Also if you gave everyone a rifle, you can't limit how much they can practice. How would you plan to make that fair? Some guys load and shoot off the back porch out to 1000 yards. Me on the other hand, I live in town, and the closest 1000 yard range is 2 hours from me.

 

[JSF]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hennig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional

Just to jump back to this - I was going to grab a Huber for my new build. Any more info regarding the ND issues? </div></div>

From the few I've been around(less than 5) they would all bump fire as in you bump the butt of the rifle on the ground and the hammer falls. It's that simple. That was enough for me to decide that they arnt for me.

Dustin </div></div>

So let me get this straight, your idea of a good trigger must pass the "slam rifle on ground" test to see if safe?

Have you ever heard of the conservation of momentum?

When would this "slam rifle scenario" ever happen in real life?

I went home and tested both my hubers and all my other triggers set at or under 2 lb. They all functioned (ie fired) except the Huber set above 2 lb when hit into the ground.

If thats how you test triggers, remind me never to shoot anywhere near you.


Regards,
DT </div></div>

So your idea of a safe trigger is one that goes off when the butt of the rifle hits the ground? I think I would rather shoot with Dustin.

 

[D_TROS]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So your idea of a safe trigger is one that goes off when the butt of the rifle hits the ground? I think I would rather shoot with Dustin. </div></div>

ha seriously guys. you are missing the point.

ANY trigger set TOO LIGHT will go off if slammed into the ground. I dropped all my rifles from 5' onto cement and no AD while testing. I had to seriously SLAM them down to get them to actuate.

and to address other pt, if you are carrying a loaded rifle in a match going over obstacles, you will be dq'd faster than you can say AD.
And a rifle falling out of a tree stand, again my pt, any trigger set too light will go off. User error. Not trigger malfunction.

And there is NO WAY that you can get a Huber to AD by slamming the bolt home.

Regards,
DT

 

[doubled]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

 

[CS95]

Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So your idea of a safe trigger is one that goes off when the butt of the rifle hits the ground? I think I would rather shoot with Dustin. </div></div>

ha seriously guys. you are missing the point.

ANY trigger set TOO LIGHT will go off if slammed into the ground. I dropped all my rifles from 5' onto cement and no AD while testing. I had to seriously SLAM them down to get them to actuate.

and to address other pt, if you are carrying a loaded rifle in a match going over obstacles, you will be dq'd faster than you can say AD.
And a rifle falling out of a tree stand, again my pt, any trigger set too light will go off. User error. Not trigger malfunction.

And there is NO WAY that you can get a Huber to AD by slamming the bolt home.

Regards,
DT </div></div>

It has nothing to do with the trigger being set to light. You are talking to guys that obviously have a good bit more experience than you. If you truly understand how triggers work and how a two stage trigger functions(or is supposed to function) you would be able to take your action out of the stock and look at the sear engagement and work the bolt and trigger through every possible scenario you might encounter in the field.

If you cant figure it out from there then you do not need to be arguing with guys that have obviously had this "experience" already happen.