Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

#151
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sp95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It has nothing to do with the trigger being set to light. You are talking to guys that obviously have a good bit more experience than you. If you truly understand how triggers work and how a two stage trigger functions(or is supposed to function) you would be able to take your action out of the stock and look at the sear engagement and work the bolt and trigger through every possible scenario you might encounter in the field.

If you cant figure it out from there then you do not need to be arguing with guys that have obviously had this "experience" already happen.

</div></div>

Ummm so someone looking at a couple triggers has more experience than me, who owns 2 for over 2 years of shooting and over 3k rounds down range on 2 different rifles?? not counting the number of matches I have shot in this yeat alone with no AD's??

As a mechanical engineer, I know exactly how a 2-stage trigger works (I know Huber is not a true 2-stage). I also know about something called physics. THat is why it does not matter which trigger you have if you slam it to the ground hard enough, it will go off.

Now, I have no affiliation with Huber other than owning a couple. I am asking the question of what scenario it could AD so I can test mine to see if the same thing happens. If the same thing happens, I want to get the trigger replaced or repaired. I have yet to see any scenario that is not user error that could cause an AD.

The guys that have had this "experience" happen have yet to chime in and let me know how, just trolls such as yourself speculating that have no actual experience.

So if you dont have any idea about what you are talking about, please keep your "wisdom" to yourself.

Regards,
DT
 
#152
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

D TROS, I'm happy that your triggers have worked well, I own a Huber myself. Sadly though there is no denying that something in that design makes it more prone to an AD when dropped on it's butt then say a stock Rem trigger. Mine is on a match rifle and varmint rifle, I wouldn't put it on a deer rifle for all the reasons mentioned above.

PS...Hitler never said the quote in your sig line, it's internet legend. http://propagandaprofessor.net/2011/09/
 
#153
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

+1.. Any gun that allows the hammer to fall from an impact to the butt is an unsafe firearm in my eyes. The only time a round should be permitted to fire, is from pulling the trigger. Period.

Whenever I do any work on my guns, especially the triggers, I always slam the butt of the gun down with an empty chamber just to make sure the hammer doesn't fall. If it does, I consider it a serious issue, go back in and fix it.

Pride and "know-it-all-ness" are usually the main contributing factors to ND's, IMO.
 
#154
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

The release of the Huber was something more prone on the early models, John has since refined the triggers from what I understand.

What the problem was, John designed the trigger to work with the safety. So basically if you didn't use the safety you weren't using the trigger as it was intended. His early understanding was everything focused around that...

It would not bump fire on safe, it also would reset by using the safety. His thought process was, if you pressed the trigger through the set but didn't fire it you immediately went to safe, you didn't just move your finger off the trigger and then reset the shot, you moved your finger and hit the safety.

I believe he has since addressed this, so early models would fire if dropped if you were not on safe, I believe new models do not do this...
 
#155
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

DT, your kind of a tool jumping on Dustin over a trigger, you should give up a nut to shoot next to him he is one of the best, you might learn a thing or two. Now onto the Huber trigger issues I encountered, and may-be you should heed this advice rather then defend a flawed trigger, since I pay liability insurance to Chirello, I take this shit very serious, and don't want a claim, because some dubee sent one off in the neighbors house.

Mr. Huber stopped in my shop to pedal his trigger and I liked the percieved saftey of his design, which is all it is percieved. He asured me the weight settings I was asking for (3lbs total between the 2 pull stages) would not be an issue with his trigger. Well like was stated the design requires the saftey to be operated to reset the first stage. So if you were at a match getting ready to shoot a stage and you took up the first "dry" stage and all of a sudden the RO yells "ceasce fire" "unload your weapon" (usually does this cause some noob is down range). What would be the first thing you would do??? Or you are running your stage and the timmer beeps and you just took up the first stage, and the RO says make your weapon safe. are you going to remember to flick the saftey on before opening the bolt??

Well 99% of the guys out there would open the bolt and drop the mag, some of the guys with huber triggers would only need to touch the bolt handle before the saftey and that alone will fire the gun. Yes try that take up the entire first stage of you triggger and then with-out resetting the saftey open the bolt, there is a 75% chance it won't fire but with 25% chance of every trigger he sends out firing under this condition is way too high. Mine did it 100% of the time, I contacted Mr. Huber about this and sent it back to him to be worked on and when it came back the trigger amounted to a total of 5 lbs of pull. Really WTF would I spend the kind of money he is asking for such junk. If you need a total of 5lbs in 2 stages to make the thing safe???

so many ways to send out an ND and get tossed on your ass out of a match with the Huber trigger, I was unaware of the bump fire that Dustin mentioned so add that to the flawed switch.

I would trade that Huber for a timney if anyone cares to swap..

I'll add this hapened with-in the last 12 months so is the problem really solved.
 
#156
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
430834_463169240404330_2144404198_n.jpg
</div></div>

Hahaha!
 
#159
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

The only three Huber triggers I've been around all slam fired when you hit the butt of the rifle on the ground. I know guys who run them and just don't worry about it. For me, I just can't get passed it.
 
#160
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But dont get me wrong, I would love a Jackson, but they a little pricey and hard to come by right now.
Regards,
DT </div></div>

See the Hubers are $375 now?

http://www.huberconcepts.com/Remington700nu.htm
 
#163
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like his marketing strategy hasn't changed, hype the product, and price it above everything else so there is a perception of superiority.

Hook line and sinker for newbees.</div></div>

I just like how that page has the text:

"Due to increased production we are able to offer this precision tactical trigger at a significant price reduction."

Baha.
 
#165
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DT, your kind of a tool jumping on Dustin over a trigger, you should give up a nut to shoot next to him he is one of the best, you might learn a thing or two. Now onto the Huber trigger issues I encountered, and may-be you should heed this advice rather then defend a flawed trigger, since I pay liability insurance to Chirello, I take this shit very serious, and don't want a claim, because some dubee sent one off in the neighbors house.

Mr. Huber stopped in my shop to pedal his trigger and I liked the percieved saftey of his design, which is all it is percieved. He asured me the weight settings I was asking for (3lbs total between the 2 pull stages) would not be an issue with his trigger. Well like was stated the design requires the saftey to be operated to reset the first stage. So if you were at a match getting ready to shoot a stage and you took up the first "dry" stage and all of a sudden the RO yells "ceasce fire" "unload your weapon" (usually does this cause some noob is down range). What would be the first thing you would do??? Or you are running your stage and the timmer beeps and you just took up the first stage, and the RO says make your weapon safe. are you going to remember to flick the saftey on before opening the bolt??

Well 99% of the guys out there would open the bolt and drop the mag, some of the guys with huber triggers would only need to touch the bolt handle before the saftey and that alone will fire the gun. Yes try that take up the entire first stage of you triggger and then with-out resetting the saftey open the bolt, there is a 75% chance it won't fire but with 25% chance of every trigger he sends out firing under this condition is way too high. Mine did it 100% of the time, I contacted Mr. Huber about this and sent it back to him to be worked on and when it came back the trigger amounted to a total of 5 lbs of pull. Really WTF would I spend the kind of money he is asking for such junk. If you need a total of 5lbs in 2 stages to make the thing safe???

so many ways to send out an ND and get tossed on your ass out of a match with the Huber trigger, I was unaware of the bump fire that Dustin mentioned so add that to the flawed switch.

I would trade that Huber for a timney if anyone cares to swap..

I'll add this hapened with-in the last 12 months so is the problem really solved. </div></div>

First off, I apologize for jumping on anyone. Not my intention. Nor is it my intention to defend a flawed trigger. I wanted first hand examples of actual users of why this trigger was failing. Not people chiming in about rifles falling out of tree stands or climbing over an obstacle and it fired might AD. I wanted facts, not, "we'll I fondled a couple at my local range and they suck."

Mr See, I truly appreciate your experiences with the trigger. I definitely see a Trigger actuating by touching the bolt a proplem. That's what I wanted to hear. Looking for an affordable 2stage trigger left me with huber at 225 when I got it or Jackson at over a hundo more. As a "newb" I went with the huber. All the research i did literally read was positive.

It's crazy the huber is so expensive now. Jackson looking better and better.

now I'm doing research because like you said, I have seen too many people dq'd at matches for ad's, and if my huber has a chance of that, I want a new trigger. . I will test my triggers as you explained to see if there is any danger. Also, like you said, I want no incidents with accidental discharges.

Thanks for someone finally answering the question why hubers AD with actual experience. Albeit Dustin, I have to admit, a simple butt stroke should never actuate a trigger. I was going on the assumption of a serious butt slam. (Insert joke here)

It's so hard on the Internet where ass clowns shit talk any company that didn't give them free shit, that when solid advice comes along, it's too hard to tell the diff.


Regards
DT
 
#168
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D_TROS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hennig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional

Just to jump back to this - I was going to grab a Huber for my new build. Any more info regarding the ND issues? </div></div>

From the few I've been around(less than 5) they would <span style="font-weight: bold">all bump fire as in you </span><span style="font-weight: bold">bump the butt of the rifle on the ground</span> and the hammer falls. It's that simple. That was enough for me to decide that they arnt for me.

Dustin </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">So let me get this straight, your idea of a good trigger must pass the "slam rifle on ground" test to see if safe?

Have you ever heard of the conservation of momentum?
</span>
When would this "slam rifle scenario" ever happen in real life?

I went home and tested both my hubers and all my other triggers set at or under 2 lb. They all functioned (ie fired) except the Huber set above 2 lb when hit into the ground.

<span style="font-weight: bold">If thats how you test triggers, remind me never to shoot anywhere near you.
</span>
I have still not heard one reason that a Huber has ND's that isnt the fault of the unsafe user. But dont get me wrong, I would love a Jackson, but they a little pricey and hard to come by right now. And if there is a reason these triggers have ND's, I want to know so I dont have to get disqual'd from a match, or even worse, potentially harm someone from a faulty trigger.

Regards,
DT </div></div>

Mr. D_Tros,

Thanks so much for the unwarranted personal attack. As a thank you for the nice things you had to say about me I'd like you to know that you are now a SPONSERED shooter and your entry fee into the 2013 Precision Rifle Series has been paid. All you've got to do is show up and shoot.

Truly yours,

Dustin Morris
 
#170
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. D_Tros,

Thanks so much for the unwarranted personal attack. As a thank you for the nice things you had to say about me I'd like you to know that you are now a SPONSERED shooter and your entry fee into the 2013 Precision Rifle Series has been paid. All you've got to do is show up and shoot.

Truly yours,

Dustin Morris </div></div>

So... all I gotta do to get the entry fees waived is talk crap? Hell I'll make an ass of myself just to shoot with yall for free!
grin.gif
 
#171
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mr. D_Tros,

Thanks so much for the unwarranted personal attack. As a thank you for the nice things you had to say about me I'd like you to know that you are now a SPONSERED shooter and your entry fee into the 2013 Precision Rifle Series has been paid. All you've got to do is show up and shoot.

Truly yours,

Dustin Morris </div></div>

If I talk bad about you on here, can I be sponsored too?

Damn, Hal beat me to it.
smile.gif


If he gets a free rifle too, I'm gonna cry.
 
#174
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I have been shooting matches for about 3 years. I have 3 Huber triggers, I have never had an ND with any of them. I have had an ND with a Jewell set lighter than I like. All the matches i shoot requier bolt back or mag out when moving. I'm pretty sure i could throw the rifle off the shooting tower at RO in that condition and not have the rifle ND. To each their own, this has just been my expierence.
 
#176
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry guys I only reserve that for very special people. I'd like to clarify that his entry is not waived, it is being paid by me.

Dustin </div></div>

This thread just turned epic.
 
#177
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mr. D_Tros,

Thanks so much for the unwarranted personal attack. As a thank you for the nice things you had to say about me I'd like you to know that you are now a SPONSERED shooter and your entry fee into the 2013 Precision Rifle Series has been paid. All you've got to do is show up and shoot.

Truly yours,

Dustin Morris </div></div>

Mr Dustin,

My facetious remark of not wanting to shoot with you was not intended as a personal attack. I formally apologize for that. I now realize how dangerous a slam fire can be, as well as the issues brought to light by Mr See.

As to your gracious offer for "SPONSERSHIP," I respectfully decline. I am perfectly capable of providing my own funds. I appreciate your concern for getting more "special people" out into the shooting community. I plan on joining the PRS this year. I wanted to last year, but the birth of my first child in April, I knew I would be limited to the number of matches I could attend, and as such only made one PRS match and the Hide Cup. I am however currently signed up for the TPRC, and hope to see you there and apologize in person for my remarks.

Have a good day sir,

Dorgan T.
 
#178
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

This was my first year to shoot some of the PRS events and I learned a great deal. The first thing I learned is that PRS is a professional level competition shooting organization. That means any weakness on the part of you or your equipment will be exposed. You have to eliminate equipment issues from the equation completely. As an example, I finished the first day of the GAP Grind 23rd, 2 bad stages and a mediocre stage on Sunday dropped me to 32nd for the finish. Now, that was shooter induced error that caused a 10 place drop in the blink of an eye. So throw in a couple of failure to feed magazine issues and some ammunition that has an ES of 50fps, then add a trigger that isn't consistent and try to shoot movers with it. My 32nd place finish would have been 50th+ easily.

Having high performance equipment is good but only to the point that it remains reliable. Don't get hung up on which caliber, scope, stock, or trigger people are using. The important part of any of those selections is reliability and repeatability.

The diminishing popularity of the .308 has come about in my opinion for a couple of reasons. I can't tell you which happened first but ballistic software gave us the ability to compare performance in a manner that was easy to understand. This allowed the average shooter to make educated decisions about which caliber worked best rather than following in the military's footsteps. Right now, caliber selection is being based mostly on the incredible bullets being designed by Bryan Litz and others. When you have a 140gr, 139gr, 105gr, and other smaller bullets with ballistic coefficients once only seen in .308 and larger calibers, you have an edge.

Ballistic software has in some regards taught me to shoot long range. It has at the very least taught me what matters in regards to velocity, B.C., weight, caliber ect. I no longer have to go buy bullets and experiment. I can compare the performance of different bullets, calibers, weights, and velocities without ever loading a single round. If you are only using your ballistic software to predict your elevation and wind corrections you are sadly under utilizing an incredible tool.
 
#179
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mr. D_Tros,

Thanks so much for the unwarranted personal attack. As a thank you for the nice things you had to say about me I'd like you to know that you are now a SPONSERED shooter and your entry fee into the 2013 Precision Rifle Series has been paid. All you've got to do is show up and shoot.

Truly yours,

Dustin Morris </div></div>

If I talk bad about you and act like a dumbass on here, can I be sponsored too?

Damn, Hal beat me to it.
smile.gif


If he gets a free rifle too, I'm gonna cry. </div></div>

i can say a few mean words as well. is this competition in Texas because i can start the shit talking now if need be lmao.

Who knew all you need to do was talk shit to get sponsored
frown.gif
. see what manners gets me.... nothing lol
 
#182
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Great info
I predict 6CM will shortly be front runner, thou if there was a COTS 7mm with 60gr case cap setup to run from a short action standard bolt face. I believe it would quickly move to front, the 7mm IMHO is the perfect bore size.
There is no magic bullet or equipment that will make you DTUBBS overnight but they can minimize damage on incorrect range/wind calls.
 
#184
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance </div></div>
LOL! Awesome!

Rob, you'll never hear the end of it if some dude with a 16" shorty rifle outshoots you in a match ...
 
#186
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance </div></div>
LOL! Awesome!

Rob, you'll never hear the end of it if some dude with a 16" shorty rifle outshoots you in a match ... </div></div>

There are better odds that the sun will rise in the West than somebody will beat Rob with a 16" 308.
 
#187
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LCDR JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance </div></div>
LOL! Awesome!

Rob, you'll never hear the end of it if some dude with a 16" shorty rifle outshoots you in a match ... </div></div>

There are better odds that the sun will rise in the West than somebody will beat Rob with a 16" 308. </div></div>


D-MO, Thats pretty much what I was about to say.
 
#189
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

I think doing away with the speed limit is a great idea. We will just crony everyone in the match and split the cost of new steel between everyone over 3150fps.
eek.gif
 
#190
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

Reminds me of the Rifles Only 2011 match.

Jacob: If some of you guys brought your 16-18 inch barbie barrels you're not going to do so well. We have good glass spotting these shots, and when you start going trans-sonic and tumbling bullets we're going to DQ you from that stage.

bkm8b.png
 
#191
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sleeper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think doing away with the speed limit is a great idea. We will just crony everyone in the match and split the cost of new steel between everyone over 3150fps.
eek.gif
</div></div>

Maybe they could help offset the cost of paying for the new steel by recycling their barrels that are fried after 500 rounds!
 
#194
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info
I predict 6CM will shortly be front runner, thou if there was a COTS 7mm with 60gr case cap setup to run from a short action standard bolt face. I believe it would quickly move to front, the 7mm IMHO is the perfect bore size.
There is no magic bullet or equipment that will make you DTUBBS overnight but they can minimize damage on incorrect range/wind calls.
</div></div>

Jedi, you know I'm a 7mm man...

However, I don't foresee 7s being the new 6 in the PRS matches. I'm not a PRS expert but it seems the significantly reduced recoil of the 6s is much more advantageous than the modest drift advantage of the 7s...at least for the ranges these competitors shoot at. As much of a 7mm fan that I am, I have to concede that inside 1000 yards, the 7 doesn't get the chance to shine.

These shooters don't need the downrange energy the 7s provide, so why use one?

I don't think my braked 284 is a heavy recoiling rifle...far from it. However, at ASC in September I shot the "Sergeant York" stage, and would have much preferred a super light recoiling 6mm, because that stage has you in a compromised position, and you've gotta shoot FAST.
 
#196
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question, any good match reports or youtube clips from any of the matches included in the PRS 2012, available online? </div></div>

Here you go:

2012 NORCAL
 
#197
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question, any good match reports or youtube clips from any of the matches included in the PRS 2012, available online? </div></div>

And another:

2011 Lone Star Challenge
 
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