JEC Brakes are made by Jason Christian, they are his brakes made by him and sold / can be viewed at http://wiebad.com/zen/
They work as advertised.
Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
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JEC Brakes are made by Jason Christian, they are his brakes made by him and sold / can be viewed at http://wiebad.com/zen/
They work as advertised.
I think there is some cross over with what we are shooting Tactical (these lads call them Practical) and F-Class with here in Australia.
The 6mm/22-250 wildcats are taking over. 6.5's were in vogue when I started in 2010, but they have fallen by the wayside. The 284 is coming back and a lot of guys are shooting 7mm WSMs.
The current thought is that 6.5's have too much vertical at distance. My rifle never had that problem, but I have seen over half the 6.5s we have built develop it. Not sure what causes it, as I don't personally know any ballistiticians to find out if we are doing something wrong in loading or barrel length/twist.
Some guys are shooting 280-Acks, and doing well. So variety is the spice of life.
Interesting to see the switch toward Horus reticles, that so far has not happened here in "practical or F-Class matches". And Nightforce is pretty much the only name in scopes here in Australia.
Looking forward to returning to America this winter, going to be a lot of fun.
Is there a lot of F-Class and sniper rifle matches in Wyoming/Colorado? Beyond the Hide Cup?
The 6mm/22-250 wildcats are taking over. 6.5's were in vogue when I started in 2010, but they have fallen by the wayside. The 284 is coming back and a lot of guys are shooting 7mm WSMs.
The current thought is that 6.5's have too much vertical at distance. My rifle never had that problem, but I have seen over half the 6.5s we have built develop it. Not sure what causes it, as I don't personally know any ballistiticians to find out if we are doing something wrong in loading or barrel length/twist.
Some guys are shooting 280-Acks, and doing well. So variety is the spice of life.
Interesting to see the switch toward Horus reticles, that so far has not happened here in "practical or F-Class matches". And Nightforce is pretty much the only name in scopes here in Australia.
Looking forward to returning to America this winter, going to be a lot of fun.
Is there a lot of F-Class and sniper rifle matches in Wyoming/Colorado? Beyond the Hide Cup?
Muskox,
F class and Tactical matches are two different games. The big one is in F class you don't spot your shot. The guy in the pits does that for you.
In the Tactical matches if you cannot spot your own impacts your going to have a bad day. For PRS matches it is against the rules to call hits for another competitor. Due to that most guys shoot 6.5 and 6's to help stay on target through recoil. The 7's have too much recoil to stay on target as easily and to match the ballistics of the 6 and 6.5's with a 30 cal you'd have to go to a magnum pushing a heavy bullet and you would have the same issue.
There are reasons why the guys that shot the Finale run the calibers they do.
F class and Tactical matches are two different games. The big one is in F class you don't spot your shot. The guy in the pits does that for you.
In the Tactical matches if you cannot spot your own impacts your going to have a bad day. For PRS matches it is against the rules to call hits for another competitor. Due to that most guys shoot 6.5 and 6's to help stay on target through recoil. The 7's have too much recoil to stay on target as easily and to match the ballistics of the 6 and 6.5's with a 30 cal you'd have to go to a magnum pushing a heavy bullet and you would have the same issue.
There are reasons why the guys that shot the Finale run the calibers they do.
Here in Australia, our sniper and F-Class matches are shot on the same course. Bearing in mind that, Australian gun laws are draconian, and the concept of "practicing for war" is illegal. So the PRS shoots are pretty tame.
Shooting marked targets doesn't mean you chase the marker, if you do you'll never do well.
Shooting marked targets doesn't mean you chase the marker, if you do you'll never do well.
Great information! I finally gain SOME credibility with my friends since they asked a few questions concerning this.
I imagine that some of the reason for the high usage by the top guys is sponsorship but it still reflects sponsorship by top professional shops/manufacturers.
I imagine that some of the reason for the high usage by the top guys is sponsorship but it still reflects sponsorship by top professional shops/manufacturers.
I think someone asked why no AIs in the top running but I don't think anyone asked why so many stocks vs Chassis in the top group. I think mcmillan and manners made up the bulk of the category?
What do the Stocks offer that the chassis do not?
Thanks
What do the Stocks offer that the chassis do not?
Thanks
Muskox- the WTRC is held near Gillette, WY. I have never shot in it but I know several guys who have and it's said to be a great time.
WTRC Overview & Sign-up
WTRC Overview & Sign-up
Really it is a personal preferance. I myself cannot get comfortable behind a AICS. It feels like I am behing a 2x4. There are some chassis that do not have flat forends such as the XLR. This is just my opinion but having to shoot off of alot of imporvised postions such as out of windows, I want a flat or semi-flat forend so the gun does not want to roll or cant over. Stocks such as the McMillan A5, Manners T4 and KMW SENTINEL offer a "flat" forend to help stabilize the rifle. But at the end of the day it is what is the most comfortable for you the shooter. Stocks are unfortuantely one of the areas where no one can really give you advice because you have to try them yourself to see what fits you.
Several of the custom actions incorporate a 20 MOA rail into the reciever as one peice. Most shooters that have an action that does not include this run a quality 1 peice 20 MOA Pictanny rail (Seekins, NightForce, Badger, cheaper options would be Weaver and EGW). Using a 1 peice ensures that the front and rear rings will be in perfect alignment and the 20 MOA incorporated in to the rail will ensure that the scope has enough elevation travel to reach to 1000 - 1200 yards which is the max distance typically seen at these matches. For mouting the scope most shooters just run a set of quality rings, I personally like and see alot of Seekins on the line. Badger, NightForce and Leupold Mark 4 are all good as well. There are really not too many shooters running a 1 peice mount such as LaRue, BoBro, or Spuhr. Chase aka Pump is the only guy I can think of that does but I am not sure what brand he uses.
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while the 308 argument has been beat to death in this thread i will put my .02 in for what its worth.
1. for all of you guys who are just starting out, learning to reload, learning the game, have never shot a match.... do you really expect to be hindered by shooting a 308 that much? Most of the guys top in every match have been doing this game a LONG time and have learned what they like and don't like, are usually sponsored by a barrel maker, and know their caliber, load etc. I will still tell a newb to shoot 308 to begin with unless they are a experienced reloader, or have fairly deep pockets to pay for barrels and the ammo required to be "competitive" I have plenty of guns other then 308 and i still shoot more 308 then any other caliber for the reasons of barrel life, making me work in wind a bit more, ammunition availability. Like i said if your budget allows you to buy/reload enough ammo for your 6.5 or 6 then more power to you, mine does not so i shoot a lot of 308 and then shoot the other stuff for comps when i have time.
2. I know damn well that the Pro's and I will call them that, do not think themselves operators. The professionalism showed by all the top shooters from Surgeon, GAP, guys like Terry Cross, Etc are beyond reproach. Absolutely amazing people who show the utmost respect to those in uniform, which is humbling to say the least.
3. the military DOES not and WILL not ever have "the best" out there outside of maybe the tier 1 boys. ALL military gear is procured on a cost/reward scale, along with all kinds of political incentives for things to be made in the US, etc. The gear gets the job done, yes but usually better things are out there.
1. for all of you guys who are just starting out, learning to reload, learning the game, have never shot a match.... do you really expect to be hindered by shooting a 308 that much? Most of the guys top in every match have been doing this game a LONG time and have learned what they like and don't like, are usually sponsored by a barrel maker, and know their caliber, load etc. I will still tell a newb to shoot 308 to begin with unless they are a experienced reloader, or have fairly deep pockets to pay for barrels and the ammo required to be "competitive" I have plenty of guns other then 308 and i still shoot more 308 then any other caliber for the reasons of barrel life, making me work in wind a bit more, ammunition availability. Like i said if your budget allows you to buy/reload enough ammo for your 6.5 or 6 then more power to you, mine does not so i shoot a lot of 308 and then shoot the other stuff for comps when i have time.
2. I know damn well that the Pro's and I will call them that, do not think themselves operators. The professionalism showed by all the top shooters from Surgeon, GAP, guys like Terry Cross, Etc are beyond reproach. Absolutely amazing people who show the utmost respect to those in uniform, which is humbling to say the least.
3. the military DOES not and WILL not ever have "the best" out there outside of maybe the tier 1 boys. ALL military gear is procured on a cost/reward scale, along with all kinds of political incentives for things to be made in the US, etc. The gear gets the job done, yes but usually better things are out there.
To build on what Joe just said, there are a ton of good shooters that practice with .22lr and .223 Rem, simply because their pockets aren't deep enough for 6mm Wizzbang 10k rounds per year.
I plan on shooting an 18.5" .308 at KM on the 27th. I know I'll be at a disadvantage but the rifle is also my work rifle. Hoping to have some fun and make a good training day out of it. I'd love to have a .260 for comps but Jared seems to want money for rebarreling my rifle. Anyway I may not have the most high speed round out, but ill damn sure give em hell with that 08.
KJ
KJ
Many peope use a TAB GEAR 2 point sling. I really like the new rapid adjust model.
Wow, this is great information. So great that I talked to Rich Emmons (one of the guys leading the PRS and the one who originally provided this info) and asked his permission to analyze this data at a little bit of a deeper level and try to present it visually. I've worked my way through part of it, and thought I'd share some of the highlights here since this is the thread that originally sparked my interest.
Caliber & Cartridges: What The Pros Use
Although the perennial favorite 260 Remington remained the most popular choice, many of the top competitors seem to be choosing 6mm bullets fired out of cartridges like the 6XC, 243 Win, and even a few like the 6×47 Lapua or the 6mm Creedmoor that are necked down versions of more modern cartridge designs. In fact, there were almost as many people choosing 6mm as 6.5mm cartridges. However, it turns out those using 6mm bullets finished 13 places higher on the leader board on average than those using 6.5mm bullets.
This is just a portion of the charts and details I created. To view the full post on calibers and cartridges, visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/09/07/rifle-cartridges-what-the-pros-use/
Optics: What The Pro's Use
I also posted a few other charts, along with links to the most popular scope models used and a list of every reticle with images for easy side-by-side comparison.
To view the full post on optics, visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/09/12/best-long-range-scopes-what-the-pros-use/
I still hope to add a couple more posts to cover the data related to compenents (bullets, powders, etc), rifles (barrels, gunsmith, etc) and accessories (rear bag, muzzle brake, suppressor, etc). If you're interested, just check back to PrecisionRifleBlog.com in a couple weeks.
Hope you guys find this helpful. This is certainly great information, and thanks so much to Rich Emmons for sharing it with the shooting community and allowing me to crunch the data and repost it.
Caliber & Cartridges: What The Pros Use
Although the perennial favorite 260 Remington remained the most popular choice, many of the top competitors seem to be choosing 6mm bullets fired out of cartridges like the 6XC, 243 Win, and even a few like the 6×47 Lapua or the 6mm Creedmoor that are necked down versions of more modern cartridge designs. In fact, there were almost as many people choosing 6mm as 6.5mm cartridges. However, it turns out those using 6mm bullets finished 13 places higher on the leader board on average than those using 6.5mm bullets.
This is just a portion of the charts and details I created. To view the full post on calibers and cartridges, visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/09/07/rifle-cartridges-what-the-pros-use/
Optics: What The Pro's Use
I also posted a few other charts, along with links to the most popular scope models used and a list of every reticle with images for easy side-by-side comparison.
To view the full post on optics, visit: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/09/12/best-long-range-scopes-what-the-pros-use/
I still hope to add a couple more posts to cover the data related to compenents (bullets, powders, etc), rifles (barrels, gunsmith, etc) and accessories (rear bag, muzzle brake, suppressor, etc). If you're interested, just check back to PrecisionRifleBlog.com in a couple weeks.
Hope you guys find this helpful. This is certainly great information, and thanks so much to Rich Emmons for sharing it with the shooting community and allowing me to crunch the data and repost it.
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One thing that isn't listed is the barrel length and contour. I know you can't put everything in there but I would imagine guys are running barrels in the 24-26" range but am more interested in contour. Can anyone advise the most widely used contour for this application. I am looking to get a 260 barrel for my AI/AE MK II and looking to try some local competitions. I am in Canada for now so ordering a barrel from Mile High etc is out of the question bc they won't ship it north of the border.
The 2012 winner and leader so far in 2013 is Wade Stuteville, who is the General Manager for Surgeon Rifles. I have a friend that has bought a couple rifles from them and even gone to visit their operation, and he has talked to Wade a lot. Wade runs MTU (Krieger #10 "Heavy Bull Target") contour barrels, which are really heavy. Wade said he'd rather deal with the extra weight ... as long as the rifle shoots really tight groups. My friend asked, "but can't you go a little smaller and get similar results?" Wade didn't think so. I've seen one guy at the Whittington Center's Sporting Rifle Match earlier this month that was carrying a straight blank (even heavier than an MTU barrel), but that wouldn't be my choice.
I know a few competition shooters that use Heavy Palma contours (Krieger #14) or Medium/Standard Palma (Krieger #15). Zak Smith of Competition Dynamics is a fan of the Medium Palma, and I have a lot of respect for his opinion. I personally went with a #19 Hunter contour, and wish I would have gone a little heavier (and a little shorter than my 27" barrel). There are probably a few people who go lighter than these, but I don't see a whole lot. One of the top 10 finishers at the Steel Safari was using a Remington hunting rifle (that was stock as far as I know, and looked like it had a standard sporter barrel).
The way I go about it is think about what the max weight is that you want to carry, which varies for each person. Then get the heaviest barrel you can to get you at that target weight.
This is a great question though ... I'm anxious to hear what others think.
This is not an official statistic but I feel very confident saying that 80-90% of S&Bs are 5-25. The main reason being that you'll never shoot on 5x let alone 3x but the difference in 20x and 25x is noticeable.
I hope this helps
Dustin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iggy.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And no one runs a 308...
That's a lot of valuable info, thanks! </div></div>
I wuz about to say the same. Breaks my heart since I luv my 308's. Just goes to show those guys ain't as smart as we thought they wuz.
same here, next
I would like to know what scope power is most commonly used. Is higher always better? Surely some stages under time constraints (and therefore require fast acquisition) would be shot on lower powers such as 10x?
I find all of this interesting. The PRS is no different than any other competitive activity. Everyone tries to develop thier edge. Everyone is looking for that one little thing to give them that edge just like a batter stepping into the box who has that "special bat", funky ritual, or sweatband that they feel gives them that edge. These shooters have developed many of those same things to make them successful.
As far as the term "Tactical" goes maybe the term Sporting could replace it. Because these are absolutely a sport. The LE/MIL community matches are performing a totally different set of tasks in their "tactical" operations and if and when they squeeze the trigger it carries a bit more absolution than hearing a ring from a target.
As always great information pulled together by those that get to shoot much more than myself. Thanks to you all for sharing.
As far as the term "Tactical" goes maybe the term Sporting could replace it. Because these are absolutely a sport. The LE/MIL community matches are performing a totally different set of tasks in their "tactical" operations and if and when they squeeze the trigger it carries a bit more absolution than hearing a ring from a target.
As always great information pulled together by those that get to shoot much more than myself. Thanks to you all for sharing.
I shoot small comps from time to time and I do it with a 308. In fact I have two 308's and thats the only caliber precision rifles I own. Here is why easy to get ammo and components to make ammo, barrel life, and it is more than accurate for my needs. Now why do I shoot comps with 308, to get better at shooting. Its not my business to win and I don't care to win. If I did care to win I would not be shooting 308. So its not a shock to not see 308 on there.
just my .02 on that.
However I would be interested to find out if the Vortex users are using the PST standard type scopes or the razors.
just my .02 on that.
However I would be interested to find out if the Vortex users are using the PST standard type scopes or the razors.
What are the PRS guys shooting now since 2013 PRS Series have come and gone? I do know that some have switch back to 6.5mm. Did they take down the info again at the Finale?
As stated the S&B's are almost all 5-25.
Most guys shooting 6.5's are Creedmoor and .260's with a few x47's.
The 6mm's are XC with many shooting the 6Creedmoor and several guys going that direction for next season.
The bipods are almost exclusively Harris or ATLAS.
The information was taken down again but I have no idea if it is to be released or not.
Most guys shooting 6.5's are Creedmoor and .260's with a few x47's.
The 6mm's are XC with many shooting the 6Creedmoor and several guys going that direction for next season.
The bipods are almost exclusively Harris or ATLAS.
The information was taken down again but I have no idea if it is to be released or not.
Top 10 for the year were 2-6.5's and 8-6mm's
the 6.5's were one 260 and one 6.5x47
the 6mm's were 2- 6 XC's and 6 - 6 mm Creedmoor's
They did survey the shooters again this year and I'm working on crunching the data. I hope to have some of the data posted this week on PrecisionRifleBlog.com. You can subscribe to posts to receive them as soon as they're published via email. Just enter your email in the top-right corner at PrecisionRifleBlog.com under the "Follow via Email" heading. I'll also share them here on the hide when I get them all up.
Here is a sneak peak of the results, which might help answer your question ... even more have switched to the 6mm. In fact, over half the competitors were shooting them this year.
They did survey the shooters again this year and I'm working on crunching the data. I hope to have some of the data posted this week on PrecisionRifleBlog.com. You can subscribe to posts to receive them as soon as they're published via email. Just enter your email in the top-right corner at PrecisionRifleBlog.com under the "Follow via Email" heading. I'll also share them here on the hide when I get them all up.
Here is a sneak peak of the results, which might help answer your question ... even more have switched to the 6mm. In fact, over half the competitors were shooting them this year.
Calz,
Yep that pretty much answers my question! Thanks for posting!
I've starting publishing a lot of the data related to the more recent PRS finale.
Here is chart about the specific cartridge these guys were running at this year's finale:
Here are the scopes they were running this year:
If you're interested in this stuff, you can see a lot more details and also see what other gear these guys are using at PrecisionRifleBlog.com.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/12/17/best-rifle-caliber-what-the-pros-use/
Here is chart about the specific cartridge these guys were running at this year's finale:
Here are the scopes they were running this year:
If you're interested in this stuff, you can see a lot more details and also see what other gear these guys are using at PrecisionRifleBlog.com.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/12/17/best-rifle-caliber-what-the-pros-use/
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