Rifle Scopes Tangent Theta 3-15M review

[Jethatsme]

I have been comparing the TT315 next to my S&B 3-20. I live in a high-rise building where I can see other buildings, the port, rooftops, and pedestrians at all types of distances (50 yards to several miles away). To that extent I will get the best part first, the "glass". The Tangent Theta does indeed have better glass than all the Alpha scopes I own or have owned. This includes the Beast, USO, S&B. Looking through the S&B 3-20 vs the TT315 (both on 15x), the TT has a much brighter clear image. It is very easy with the TT to pick up minor details with the scope. Think being able to view the grey patches of someones beard at 250-300 yards. Discerning someones outfit at 600-800 yards, noticing a rusted air vent fan at 700+ yards. Randomly I noticed a fly on a balcony ledge about 120-140yards. The resolution is just superb.

The S&B is right up there, BUT, there is a noticeable difference. It's certainly not splitting hairs in terms of trying to discern the attributes of two pieces of glass in order to see whether there is a difference. You will notice right away.

The turrets on the 315m are also excellent. Loud tactile clicks. Because of the 30mm tube on the M edition, the clicks are farther apart and very precise. No wiggle room when landing on a click value. (This is not the tooless Zero model). I do however like the MTC turrets on the S&B. The hard click at every Mil is great. I know TT offers that option as well, but turrets on mine are non MTC. The knurling on the TT turrets are a great addition. Your fingers tend to fit right into the groove offering a solid grip on the turrets.

I like the parallax on the TT however I wish they had the yardage marks rather than the triangle. Thay being said, the image immediately snaps into focus when you adjust the parallax range.

Overall. The build quality is rugged yet built with refined design elements that give the scope a sexy look IMO. Well done Tangent Theta.

The Hype on the TTs are warranted. I was a skeptic that needed to one in hand. Will be looking for their 5-25x soon.

 

[-Time-]

Just got my TT525 Friday, it has absolutely blown me away. I don't even worry about numbers on the parallax it's so quick and easy. I didn't know TT had MTC turrets, I definitely would've ordered them :/. Still an outstanding scope.

 

[Covertnoob5]

They do have mtc as an option but I don't believe any of those scopes are actually out yet. I think it's only a pre order at this point. Could be wrong though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moose]

Great review,I been looking at the 315m for a while now and when my build from TS Customs is done i will be getting one.Once you start dealing with quality glass there is no going back.

 

[Glassaholic]

I had the 3-20 Schmidt like yours and at the same time had the Premier version of the TT315M. The Premier was amazing and so was the Schmidt, I want to say that the Schmidt held it's own against the Premier so if the TT is that much better... wow. I almost pulled the trigger on a TT315M that was in the Post Exchange a few days ago for $2400, thought it was a great price but someone snagged it before I put in an offer. I've had two Premier LT's and do miss them, will have to keep my eye out for a TT315M in the Exchange. Obviously the benefit of the Schmidt is the extra 5x on the top end. Thanks for the review Jethatsme, like you I've been a skeptic about various scopes and have had to try them out for myself usually to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Jethatsme]

I had the 3-20 Schmidt like yours and at the same time had the Premier version of the TT315M. The Premier was amazing and so was the Schmidt, I want to say that the Schmidt held it's own against the Premier so if the TT is that much better... wow. I almost pulled the trigger on a TT315M that was in the Post Exchange a few days ago for $2400, thought it was a great price but someone snagged it before I put in an offer. I've had two Premier LT's and do miss them, will have to keep my eye out for a TT315M in the Exchange. Obviously the benefit of the Schmidt is the extra 5x on the top end. Thanks for the review Jethatsme, like you I've been a skeptic about various scopes and have had to try them out for myself usually to be pleasantly surprised.

I was the one who snagged it. Haha. Could't pass it up and knew it would fly off the shelf.

 

[Glassaholic]

I was the one who snagged it. Haha. Could't pass it up and knew it would fly off the shelf.

That's hilarious, well good for you. Like you, it pains me to see these poor orphan scopes sitting around with no home By the way, which reticle is on your Schmidt 3-20?

 

[orkan]

Just to clarify, I do not think the MTC (which is now called CCA - Click Count Assist) is an option on the M series. To my knowledge, only the P series has this option.

We have all mil models of Tangent Theta scopes in stock. My opinion of these scopes has not changed since I handled the prototypes over 3 years ago: They are the very best rifle scopes available. Period.

 

[Moose]

Orkan,When I get my rifle from Travis,I will give you a call about the 315M.I been on the Hive for a little while and have been learning some good stuff about shooting.Keep up the good work.

 

[Jethatsme]

That's hilarious, well good for you. Like you, it pains me to see these poor orphan scopes sitting around with no home By the way, which reticle is on your Schmidt 3-20?

I got the H59 on the Schmidt. Mounted on an RPR in .308 with the LRI fitted barrel.

 

[st1650]

I believe there are a few Canadian 315M of the first batch who are CCA clicks ....

 

[orkan]

Orkan,When I get my rifle from Travis,I will give you a call about the 315M.I been on the Hive for a little while and have been learning some good stuff about shooting.Keep up the good work.

Sounds great! What you having built?

 

[koshkin]

I have not yet compared the TT315M to any S&Bs, but will do so toward the end of the year. So far, the TT315M is my single favourite scope out there of all I have seen for general precision shooting. It does not mean the other ones are not good. They are and they all have somethign different to offer. For my purposes thought, TT315M is the best balanced option out there with stunning image quality and excellent turrets.

ILya

 

[Delicatessen]

I have not yet compared the TT315M to any S&Bs, but will do so toward the end of the year. So far, the TT315M is my single favourite scope out there of all I have seen for general precision shooting. It does not mean the other ones are not good. They are and they all have somethign different to offer. For my purposes thought, TT315M is the best balanced option out there with stunning image quality and excellent turrets.

ILya

Out of curiosity have you seen just the TT315M or also the P model with the 34mm tube etc? Just curious about the difference and relative cost difference vs value.

 

[Glassaholic]

I got the H59 on the Schmidt. Mounted on an RPR in .308 with the LRI fitted barrel.

I bet that's a sweet rig. How do you like the H59 in the 3-20, does it get too thick and too busy at 20x?

 

[Moose]

Orkan.Im having Travis build me a 223ai with a lone peak ti fusion and game scout stock.16 inch 8 twist benchmark #4 barrel with apa micro bastard break.Hawkins precision botton metal.The 315m seems about perfect for my needs.

 

[Sparrow65]

Out of curiosity have you seen just the TT315M or also the P model with the 34mm tube etc? Just curious about the difference and relative cost difference vs value.

I have the 315 in both M and P versions, as well as the 525P. Quick thanks to Orkan @ Primal Rights, as I continue to enjoy the scopes since the day I acquired them. Looking through the 315s, there is no noticeable difference IMO. The differences that stand out are a) the slick tool-less re-zero turrets on the P, which are the best turrets I've used, b) the significantly larger turrets of the P, and c) weight. While I very much prefer the P-series turrets, the ones on the M are smaller and less likely to hit or snag, while still adequately large for easy use. For a smaller and lighter rifle system, the M offers a better balance than the P. For me, the choice between the two would come down primarily to your purpose.

 

[Moose]

The rifle is going to be a light weight so the 315m will be perfect.If i like the scope a lot i will also get the 315p for a heavy weight rifle I'm having built.

 

[orkan]

I have the 315 in both M and P versions, as well as the 525P. Quick thanks to Orkan @ Primal Rights, as I continue to enjoy the scopes since the day I acquired them. Looking through the 315s, there is no noticeable difference IMO. The differences that stand out are a) the slick tool-less re-zero turrets on the P, which are the best turrets I've used, b) the significantly larger turrets of the P, and c) weight. While I very much prefer the P-series turrets, the ones on the M are smaller and less likely to hit or snag, while still adequately large for easy use. For a smaller and lighter rifle system, the M offers a better balance than the P. For me, the choice between the two would come down primarily to your purpose.

Very happy to be of service! Glad you're enjoying them!

 

[Jethatsme]

I bet that's a sweet rig. How do you like the H59 in the 3-20, does it get too thick and too busy at 20x?

I really like the H59. Not really cluttered IMO as most other people seem to comment. What's nice is that there is a floating dot in the middle as well as at every 2 mil marks.

 

[orkan]

They do have mtc as an option but I don't believe any of those scopes are actually out yet. I think it's only a pre order at this point. Could be wrong though.

We have an extremely limited quantity of these scopes in stock right now.

TT525P GenIIXR CCA (formerly known as MTC) - $4725 M.A.P.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/cGgJzm9l.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[Ornery]

Ok, now I am glad I didn't throw my money away on those horrible S&B scopes!

 

[koshkin]

Out of curiosity have you seen just the TT315M or also the P model with the 34mm tube etc? Just curious about the difference and relative cost difference vs value.

I have seen all three versions, but tested the TT315M most thoroughly since it fits my interests best of them all.

ILya

 

[phillip61]

I got to look through one at the range the other day. In glass clarity I would rank them right up there with IOR. They both use Schott Glass which is the best there is.

 

[Jethatsme]

I got to look through one at the range the other day. In glass clarity I would rank them right up there with IOR. They both use Schott Glass which is the best there is.

Not to derail the conversation towards IOR but Interesting you reference the IOR as a comparison. They seem to get a pretty bad wrap on this forum for quality Control issues. I dont have any first hand experience so cant comment. Perhaps it stems from earlier Gen IORs. I have always wanted to get my hands on one. Specifically the 5.8-40x Crusader. Especially after the reviews from Rex Reviews (Tiborasaurus on Youtube) and Richard Utting. Two reviewers I respect do to their depth of knowledge on precision shooting.

 

[Jethatsme]

I bet that's a sweet rig. How do you like the H59 in the 3-20, does it get too thick and too busy at 20x?

Here are the two rets side by side. Not the best quality. Tried to take using my iphone while supporting the rifle.

 

[koshkin]

Not to derail the conversation towards IOR but Interesting you reference the IOR as a comparison. They seem to get a pretty bad wrap on this forum for quality Control issues. I dont have any first hand experience so cant comment. Perhaps it stems from earlier Gen IORs. I have always wanted to get my hands on one. Specifically the 5.8-40x Crusader. Especially after the reviews from Rex Reviews (Tiborasaurus on Youtube) and Richard Utting. Two reviewers I respect do to their depth of knowledge on precision shooting.

I am moderately certain that Phillip is simply trying to bait Orkan, so I would not take it too seriously. I will stay out of the discussion of overall quality of IOR scope, but I can address how they compare to Tangent Theta. They don't. I have seen most precision scopes out there and Tangent Theta makes a superior product to IOR in every way I can think of.

I will stay out of the discussion on importance of having Schott glass. It was a mind numbingly stupid subject last time we did this and I do not think it has improved with time.

ILya

 

[CSTactical]

I'm a very big fan of the Tangent Theta scopes.

 

[Ornery]

If I had a nice new rifle sans a scope, I would go for a TT or S&B in a heart beat for the rifle. Right now I am just getting used to a new Minox ZP-5 on a 300 WM. Not sure if the Minox is as good as Phillips IOR, but I sure like it a lot. Thanks CS Tac for your excellent service! I'm sure Primal Rights has great service too.

 

[CSTactical]

If I had a nice new rifle sans a scope, I would go for a TT or S&B in a heart beat for the rifle. Right now I am just getting used to a new Minox ZP-5 on a 300 WM. Not sure if the Minox is as good as Phillips IOR, but I sure like it a lot. Thanks CS Tac for your excellent service! I'm sure Primal Rights has great service too.

You're very welcome Sir! Please let us know if we can assist you in the future.

 

[Nemain]

I have both the TT525P and TT315P, if anyone is considering, have no fear as both of them are top notch and best in class in my opinion. I actually prefer the TT315P for its large field of view for most applications, it is a very under rated optic because of the power range.

 

[orkan]

I actually prefer the TT315P for its large field of view for most applications, it is a very under rated optic because of the power range.

Yes I agree the TT315P is very under-rated. Absolute power house of a scope. The only place it lacks is when engaging fine targets at distances beyond 900yds or so. Then the extra magnification of the 5-25 can come in quite handy. Though on many days it is not advisable to use the powers above 18-20 anyway due to mirage.

 

[phillip61]

I am moderately certain that Phillip is simply trying to bait Orkan, so I would not take it too seriously. I will stay out of the discussion of overall quality of IOR scope, but I can address how they compare to Tangent Theta. They don't. I have seen most precision scopes out there and Tangent Theta makes a superior product to IOR in every way I can think of.

I will stay out of the discussion on importance of having Schott glass. It was a mind numbingly stupid subject last time we did this and I do not think it has improved with time.

ILya

If discussing Schott Glass it is so "Mind Numbingly Stupid" then why did the engineers at Tangent Theta not only take the time to discuss but also make the decision to use in it their scopes?......One reason, They wanted the best glass on the planet. They wanted everything about the scopes to be the best they could possibly be. Surely you can understand that?

 

[koshkin]

If discussing Schott Glass it is so "Mind Numbingly Stupid" then why did the engineers at Tangent Theta not only take the time to discuss but also make the decision to use in it their scopes?......One reason, They wanted the best glass on the planet. They wanted everything about the scopes to be the best they could possibly be. Surely you can understand that?

Because a customer asked them. And because it is a very easy way to avoid explaining a moderately complicated thing (like a riflescope design) to a person who is clearly incapable of understanding it. Yes, I mean you, Phillip. Quite simply, you are parroting a stupid thing that some marketing guy said at some point without any comprehension of what it means and how the optical considerations of glass selection work.

There are several suppliers of quality raw glass and they are all capable of supplying superb melts. Schott is one of them. If you do not shape and polish that glass properly or if you do not design the optical system properly, nothing is going to help you.

ILya

 

[phillip61]

Because a customer asked them. And because it is a very easy way to avoid explaining a moderately complicated thing (like a riflescope design) to a person who is clearly incapable of understanding it. Yes, I mean you, Phillip. Quite simply, you are parroting a stupid thing that some marketing guy said at some point without any comprehension of what it means and how the optical considerations of glass selection work.

There are several suppliers of quality raw glass and they are all capable of supplying superb melts. Schott is one of them. If you do not shape and polish that glass properly or if you do not design the optical system properly, nothing is going to help you.

ILya

You can dance around the obvious all you want. They use it because they believe it is the best they can get. Or you can try to push the narrative that Tangent Theta sells their scopes for 3+ thousand dollars with the cheapest most inferior glass they could find.

 

[knockemdown]

Schott schott schott schott, schott schott...
<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AtdBVgCqv6w?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

dats wut phil be like...

 

[pmclaine]

Schott schott schott schott, schott schott...
<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AtdBVgCqv6w?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

dats wut phil be like...

Fred you better watch out your name might get changed to Sully......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgm8P3w_80k

 

[koshkin]

You can dance around the obvious all you want. They use it because they believe it is the best they can get. Or you can try to push the narrative that Tangent Theta sells their scopes for 3+ thousand dollars with the cheapest most inferior glass they could find.

Are you functionally retarded? I will give this another shot, but I am not sure you have the reading comprehension to grasp this.

I work in this industry. I deal with this every day. My company makes opto-mechanical devices for living. Tangent Theta uses the glass that fits best their design. If Schott vanished from existence today, they would switch to another supplier (Corning, Ohara, Hoya, etc) and in three months have scopes with glass of different origin in their scopes and they would perform exactly the same.

How about you describe what your concept of how a riflescope is manufactured? How is glass from one supplier different from another if the customer ordered the same chemical composition and the cost is about the same? When Schott ships glass to someone, what does it look like? What is done to it afterwards?

ILya

 

[phillip61]

Are you functionally retarded? I will give this another shot, but I am not sure you have the reading comprehension to grasp this.

I work in this industry. I deal with this every day. My company makes opto-mechanical devices for living. Tangent Theta uses the glass that fits best their design. If Schott vanished from existence today, they would switch to another supplier (Corning, Ohara, Hoya, etc) and in three months have scopes with glass of different origin in their scopes and they would perform exactly the same.

How about you describe what your concept of how a riflescope is manufactured? How is glass from one supplier different from another if the customer ordered the same chemical composition and the cost is about the same? When Schott ships glass to someone, what does it look like? What is done to it afterwards?

ILya

I'm beginning to think there is something wrong with you. ......Two questions, just two. Did the Tangent Theta engineers pick Schoot Glass because they thought it was a 2nd tier glass and in the grand scheme of things it's the mechanical functions that matter most anyway? Or did they choose to go with Schott Glass because they thought it was the best glass that their money could buy? I already know the answer. I knew they was using Schott Glass before Greg did. When Greg first started putting up post about these "professional Marksman scopes coming soon" I called'um up and ask them what glass they were using and to my surprise they switched me over to one of there product engineers and we had a long talk about them. He didn't go into great detail but he did confirm they used Schott Glass. I have called and spoke with people from every scope maker there is. Some will talk to me, others won't. But when I'm researching scopes I call the manufactures themselves and get what ever info I can, and the first question I ask is "where do you get your glass from?" I can say without a shadow of a doubt. Engineers that use Schott Glass do so because they believe it is the best available to them.

 

[koshkin]

I'm beginning to think there is something wrong with you. ......Two questions, just two. Did the Tangent Theta engineers pick Schoot Glass because they thought it was a 2nd tier glass and in the grand scheme of things it's the mechanical functions that matter most anyway? Or did they choose to go with Schott Glass because they thought it was the best glass that their money could buy? I already know the answer. I knew they was using Schott Glass before Greg did. When Greg first started putting up post about these "professional Marksman scopes coming soon" I called'um up and ask them what glass they were using and to my surprise they switched me over to one of there product engineers and we had a long talk about them. He didn't go into great detail but he did confirm they used Schott Glass. I have called and spoke with people from every scope maker there is. Some will talk to me, others won't. But when I'm researching scopes I call the manufactures themselves and get what ever info I can, and the first question I ask is "where do you get your glass from?" I can say without a shadow of a doubt. Engineers that use Schott Glass do so because they believe it is the best available to them.

It is official.

You are an idiot. And a living testament that marketing works.

I do not go where you got this concept of first tier vs second tier glass, but I think I will just let it go at this point.

For the record, when Millett designed their LRS 6-25x56 scope, they used Schott glass in it. I think you should switch all your rifles to it. If it uses Schott glass, it must be awesome. You can save a bunch of money by using that scope.

ILya

 

[phillip61]

It is official.

You an idiot. And a living testament that marketing works.

I do not go where you got this concept of first tier vs second tier glass, but I think I will just let it go at this point.

For the record, when Millett designed their LRS 6-25x56 scope, they used Schott glass in it. I think you should switch all your rifles to it. If it uses Schott glass, it must be awesome. You can save a bunch of money by using that scope.

ILya

What a awesome way to avoid answering the questions. Your silence on the matter speaks volumes.

 

[koshkin]

Very well. Schott is either the largest or second largest manufacturer of optical glass out there with a very extensive catalog. More importantly, they have excellent coverage of their clients in North America and Europe and in these geographic markets, they are the largest player. Their prices are very competitive and are often lower than Corning and Ohara for commonly used glass people grind into lenses (though not always; it kinda goes back and forth; it was the case last time i had an unequal pathlength interferometer to build for fiber networks).

That is why so many European and American companies use them. Schott makes a good product at a good price and markets it exceedingly well. There is no magic pixie dust in it though. It is just a well run business. My company supplies some optical test equipment for them in Europe, so we interact with them with reasonable regularity.

ILya

 

[phillip61]

Very well. Schott is either the largest or second largest manufacturer of optical glass out there with a very extensive catalog. More importantly, they have excellent coverage of their clients in North America and Europe and in these geographic markets, they are the largest player. Their prices are very competitive and are often lower than Corning and Ohara for commonly used glass people grind into lenses (though not always; it kinda goes back and forth; it was the case last time i had an unequal pathlength interferometer to build for fiber networks).

That is why so many European and American companies use them. Schott makes a good product at a good price and markets it exceedingly well. There is no magic pixie dust in it though. It is just a well run business. My company supplies some optical test equipment for them in Europe, so we interact with them with reasonable regularity.

ILya

Now we're getting somewhere. can you explain "artifacts" and how they relate to the quality of glass for the scope industry. How many artifacts is to much or how big is to big, or can all that be polished out?

 

[koshkin]

Which specific artefacts are you referring to? There is a lot there. I can explain some. I do not think I can explain any in a way you can understand.

The question "can all that be polished out" is basically meaningless.

I suggest you go onto Schott webpage and download their glass catalogue. Each glass formulation has a whole laundry list of specifications. If you want to understand optical artefacts in raw glass, you need to start by understanding those specifications.

ILya

 

[hk dave]

It's really strange that Phillip still hasn't figure it out yet... after all these years. Now he's trying to convince a guy that does this for a living. At least he's not using two accounts anymore to try and get someone to backup his statements. ;D

 

[koshkin]

It's really strange that Phillip still hasn't figure it out yet... after all these years. Now he's trying to convince a guy that does this for a living. At least he's not using two accounts anymore to try and get someone to backup his statements. ;D

I was probably too hard on him earlier. I think the correct term is API: Aggressive Persistent Ignorance.

ILya

 

[phillip61]

Which specific artefacts are you referring to? There is a lot there. I can explain some. I do not think I can explain any in a way you can understand.

The question "can all that be polished out" is basically meaningless.

I suggest you go onto Schott webpage and download their glass catalogue. Each glass formulation has a whole laundry list of specifications. If you want to understand optical artefacts in raw glass, you need to start by understanding those specifications.

ILya

I've read everything on their page.........multiple times.......I have a friend that attends the SPIE convention every year. I ask her one year who she thought made the best optical glass and without any hesitation she said "Schott makes the best glass in the world hands down".

 

[hk dave]

A "friend" that went to a convention told you this? WOW

LOL

 

[koshkin]

Which SPIE convention? There are a few. EIther way, if she told you that, she was likely trying to do the same thing that the product manager of Tangent Theta was trying to do: avoid further stupid questions.

ILya

 

[hk dave]

L o l