Precision Rifle Gear Tango Innovations FIRE4000 WMLRF Initial Impressions
- Thread starter skyewalker
- Start date
Oh, like a bubble-level or Send-It substitute? That would be kinda handy for some, I guess.
My, uh, rather continued point here is, for measuring the environment (not temp table software related, as @Maurygold meant), a WMLRF can’t really be a substitute for a small Kestrel-type device.
Why? Because you can’t spin your rifle to remove the influence of sun/gun/ground/body heat. Unless you’re Thor.
One can hardly want to vigorously spin even a pair of 10x42 LRF binos to clear their temp sensors.
I’d be worried about the things taking off into the great blue yonder, either by the strap slipping out of the hands or the strap or strap connection breaking. Or banging them into something. Especially if you’ve got $2700+ wrapped up into one of the more $$$ units.
Because I, for one, have never had my Kestrel rocket away mid-spin. Ahem.
I shoot my impact all the time without any other devices even though I have a kestrel and sig lrf.
You should quit swinging your kestrel around at the range. It’s really not necessary. Ever.
Hmmmm. I should quantify the change on my unit, but the more intense the sun and the longer the Kestrel sits out (to a point), the more the temp is off.
Much like the hood of your car.
I can even see the temp start to rise in the winter in less than a second while it’s in my hand.
And here’s a bit from a Kestrel user manual?
I’m open to other ideas, but a simple 5-10 spins of the Kestrel and it’s reset.
Meanwhile, if it had a temp unit inside, the metal box that is the Fire4000 sits and bakes in the sun. (Poly box for the Vortex…although not sure what’s under the poly)
Again, open to other thoughts. Heard Frank spins when he shoots…maybe the juice isn’t worth the squeeze…PRS guys care to comment as to what happens re:spinning during matches? @X-ring ?
I wave it, like in the manual, never have spun it but my friends spin theirs. It wouldn’t fit in my case if it had a lanyard on it for spinning, so I wave it.
I don’t know how you’re supposed to get away without doing one or the other though, unless you can keep it in the shade and out of contact with surfaces that absorb heat. Once you make the Environment Live, the temp almost always goes down after you wave/spin it.
I don’t know how you’re supposed to get away without doing one or the other though, unless you can keep it in the shade and out of contact with surfaces that absorb heat. Once you make the Environment Live, the temp almost always goes down after you wave/spin it.
Hey! Look at that. A Tango guy replied to me. Cool!
Sorry man, I missed your responses to this thread yesterday.
Cool that I was understanding your design idea. I probably would’ve already bought your unit if I didn’t have two kids in college
So, what say you about the temp table thing? We know there’s no temp sensor in the unit, but pretend:
- a temp table has been previously built & applied to a rifle/ammo profile in AB within the Kestrel*
- the environmentals have been transferred from the Kestrel to the Fire4000 and locked (can you manually enter temp etc btw?)
- The Kestrel’s AB rifle/ammo data has been transferred to to the Fire4000
- All Bluetooth is turned off and you go hunting. No connection is made from the Fire400 to your phone, to the Kestrel, or to your mom. Lol.
Can the Fire4000’s built-in AB then calculate solutions using these previously “temp table” trued profiles? How do the results differ in the above scenario if we allow the Fire4000 continued access to the phone, but not the Kestrel? Or to both the phone and Kestrel? Or to just the Kestrel and not the phone?
I’m quite unclear on how the data workflow works between phone/unit.
*I call this truing; I think others do too…but I don’t own a Kestrel so not sure on the nomenclature. I also assume, like in my Strelok, one can attach trued ammo profiles to rifles.
====== boring background detail ======
Because this subject has been proven to be a little slippery to discuss (for me at least) and given the fact that I am certainly no ballistician, please do read that link I just put in this paragraph. The assumption I’m making is, just like in Strelok, a temp table is used in AB to help true your ammo’s bc by using the speed of the bullet at various temps.
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okay let me break this down.
If the unit has no ability to measure temperature, it cannot ever adjust a solution based on temperature while not connected to bluetooth.
The tango would have no data other than the last data you fed it for enviro.
If the unit has no ability to measure temperature, it cannot ever adjust a solution based on temperature while not connected to bluetooth.
The tango would have no data other than the last data you fed it for enviro.
Well shiiiit bro look at you finally clearing the air
For me just taking a Kestrel along then Bob’s your uncle bang I’m good. BT to Kestrel doesn’t bother me. I don’t need to go all low-drag/hi speed with just a WMLRF.
Since you cannot reset/clear the WMLRF from the sun etc, it doesn’t matter if it can read the temp or not. The onboard WMLRF reading is going to be wrong anyway.
The AB Engine can handle MV Temp tables yes. It is up to the manufacturer if they implement them or not. In fact, the engines in the devices can handle all AB inputs/features. What is turned on/off is entirely up the manufacturer.
MV-Temps should be 25 Deg F or 14 Deg C apart for better accuracy.
it was clear - idk why you were so confused about no enviro leading to the inability to update based on enviro?
"The onboard WMLRF reading is going to be wrong anyway" - this is innacurate and you should try using one before you claim what the limitations are a bunch of times.
Thank you Doc, is there any forecast of when this device will be included/onboarded into Quantum? Not having to re-create all of my rifle profiles will be rather nice.
Perhaps describe exactly how your Impact 4000’s temp readings react to being out in the sun for hours? Compare it to your Kestrel…wait, you don’t wave or spin that either…
are you slow or something? we already discussed the ability to manually enter or lock temperature. Same as a kestrel.
You barely knew what a temp table was; maybe you're not the best person to build out a pros and cons list of long-range tools you're never buying.
Aahhhhh maybe that’s where I’m perhaps messed up with Strelok’s minimum recommended MV table temp spread. When the Russian dev states a 15° difference needed, he means in Celsius and I’m thinking Fahrenheit. And I didn’t take that into account! Thx
Fascinating deflection.
So again, how much (roughly) does the sun affect your WMLRF or bino temp sensor readings?
you don't know what a temp table is and you want to argue about how to accurately use one.....
if my gun is cooking in the sun, my ammo probably is too. if my gun is cooking in the sun and my ammo is not I can use one of many things to manually set the temp - my kestrel temp (waving it around like an idiot or not), my phone, whatever the temp was before i cooked my gun, common fucking sense on how it feels (because you only need to be w/ 10-15 degrees)
You're entire premise that enviro not on the device somehow maybe possibly being an advantage is stupid and innacurate. If you really think you've cracked the code and achieved some level of intelligence from this that others do not possess, I encourage you to go submit an application to Wilcox and tell them how smart you are because you think enviro doesn't belong on a WMLRF and you can fix their shitty WMLRF with enviro. I don't think any govts or agencies even use it (because of the sun)
Dude. I know what a temp table is. I didn’t know the popular name of the table.now we're deflecting
dumbasss.
All people have to do is to look at your post history on this site to make their own conclusions about your character.
I pay attention; I knew this going in. I figured I’d treat you like a regular Joe to see what happened. Unfortunately, you kinda did what you usually do.
I am very careful to try not to come across as an expert unless I very much know that I am. I am far from an expert in ballistics or sensors or WMLRF etc. I could see the sun-heated temp of a unit not making enough of a ballistic difference. Perhaps. Devil/details.
But why then does spinning/waving a Kestrel seem to be a thing, and recommended by Kestrel itself?
I have left open the possibility that I am wrong at every opportunity. I somehow think you do not approach life in the same manner.
In the future I expect it to be added, but I don't have a time frame for that.
to be fair I treated you like someone of intellectual capacity until:
you wrote a thesis about how no one can explain why environmental matters right after I explained temp tables were the issue.
you clearly demonstrated having no idea what temp table are.
You wrote an email to Tango to ask if it can adjust ballistics on a sensor it doesn't even have.
you asked AB if their software can utilize temp tables even though it's clearly in their engine.
You think you outsmarted Wilcox and Vortex engineers by recognizing the sun makes things warm.
I can see why you need to take on life with the "I might be wrong approach"
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