Temp. Sensitive powders

BARichardson

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Minuteman
Jun 12, 2013
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L.V.N.V.
Been working up a hunting load for this years Mule deer hunt and with our 105+ deg. weather in southern Nevada its always in the back of my head "how is this gona work at the 20deg. weather in the northern parts?"

So my question is.

If any of you have field data on the extreme highs and low temps and what the results were?

Any useful ways to help in this area would be greatly appreciated!
 
I don't have any field "data" but I switched to the Hodgdon Extreme Powders years ago because I experienced over-pressure on rounds whose loads were developed in cold weather and used in hot weather. Never want to go through that again. Since I switched I've not had any problems. What specifically are you loading?
 
Its a 7wsm with 168gr Berger vld im useing the ramshot mag powder now and its .5 moa out to 600 then falls out to .75moa to 1100 haven shot the 7wsm any further than that.. this is in 75-85deg. weather

I have these powders to try:
IMR4350
Reloder 22
varget
the superformance stuff
Ramshot hunter
Ramshot mag
H4895
 
I had big swings in FPS with Reloder 22. I'm talking 150 fps difference. I switched to Hodgdon's Extreme powders, and while I don't get the speed I did with RL22, the powder is consistent, which is the most important thing to me.
 
I've seen reports than the ramshot series of powders tend to be less sensetive to temp swings than other powders, but still "sensitive" ... Only way to know is to experiment... I'm working on a ramshot hunter load with the 208 amax in .30-06 right now... Accuracy is superb, better than h4350.. Now to test temp stability.... I'll probably freeze some rounds over night and fire them over the chrono to see what happens....
 
OP,
Here is a quick reference list of Hodgdon's 0-125F velocity variation test results taken from their website: http://hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php#top. I ran a "backyard" thermal stability check on VARGET & H4895 using 5.56MM NATO pressure 77gr. SMK loads at -10F & 135F. The results were right in line with the results published by Hodgdon with VARGET testing to be 1 FPS difference & H4895 testing to be 4 FPS difference (averaged over 5 cartridges). Running a similar test in .30 cal is on my dance card for mid September as long as my schedule will cooperate.
Thermal stability is a very important factor but don't be fooled by thermal stability numbers alone. There can be more to choosing a powder than just thermal stability. Potential MV, ES/SD, & accurate metering can also be major considerations along with actual accuracy in your rifle. Some powders may yield very impressive thermal stability yet have overly large ES/SD in your actual application. For instance: VARGET showed exceptional thermal stability in the 5.56MM cartridge in my barrel. But the ES/SD numbers were high at 56.64/20.85. While the thermal stability numbers on H4895 were almost as good as VARGET, the ES/SD numbers on H4895 were a definite step in the right direction at 43.75/18.19 (over the same 5 cartridges that yielded the -10F & 135F thermal stability numbers). H4895 tested to be a better choice for single based powder for my application over VARGET. Best to look at everything offered by a particular powder in deciding which may best suits your needs.


5.56MM fired in 18" 1x7.7 SS Krieger/CLE 5.56MM Chamber barrel
30-06 fired in 24" 1x10 SS Krieger barrel

Propellant Type/Hodgdon data on FPS Variation from 0F to +125F/Measured MV: (+135F) - (-10F)=FPS Variation in specific caliber
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

H4350/4/Measured MV: 2834-2822=12 FPS variation with 180gr. 30-06
VARGET/8/Measured MV: 2685-2684=1 FPS variation with 77gr. 5.56MM
H4831C/10
H4895/20/Measured MV: 2742-2737=4 FPS variation with 77gr. 5.56MM
RE12/26
AA4350/29
AA2460/36
IMR4064/46/top of my 7.62MM dance card after hunting season ends
N550/49
N140/50
RL15/50
AA2520/63/Measured MV: 2950-2767=183 FPS variation with 77gr. 5.56MM (2 primers leaked at +135F so variation is probably a bit higher than 183 FPS at approx. 215 FPS)
IMR4350/67
RL22/75
RL19/94
AA3100/113
W748/114
N560/121
IMR4831/127
IMR4895/166


Propellants Hodgdon did not test:
________________________________

TAC/NA/Measured MV: 2841-2723=118 FPS variation with 77gr. 5.56MM
IMR 8208/NA/top of my 5.56MM dance card after hunting season ends


Factory Loadings:
__________________

BHA 77gr. SMK MK 262 MOD 1/NA/Measured MV: 2875-2710=165 FPS variation (High Temperature stabilized double based spherical propellant used to get higher MV for tactical use)
SWA 77gr. SMK RUN-N-GUN/NA/Measured MV: 2746-2728=18 FPS variation (Hodgdon EXTREME stick rifle propellant used for outstanding thermal stability)


Recorded MV of each individual 5.56MM round fired with ES/SD for the (5) shot string: lower MV on AA2520 shot #4 & #5 were due to primer leaking but shots #1 thru #3 were very consistent
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 
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I've seen reports than the ramshot series of powders tend to be less sensetive to temp swings than other powders, but still "sensitive" ... Only way to know is to experiment... I'm working on a ramshot hunter load with the 208 amax in .30-06 right now... Accuracy is superb, better than h4350.. Now to test temp stability.... I'll probably freeze some rounds over night and fire them over the chrono to see what happens....

Please let me know how it goes! The ramshot is what powder is working the best for me at the moment.. im gona do some small test on the H4895 and the Superformance powder and see where that goes...
 
I developed a load for my .260 when it was 95+ degrees. I shot it this winter when it was around 30 and saw a little difference, 2/10's mils up. Other than that it shot the same.
 
Updated... Tried some ramshot hunter under 208 amax in .30-06 in some colder temps... Accuracy was still good but lost 80 fps going from 73deg F to 32 Deg F or approx 2fps per degree... I'll have to see if the relationship holds true when it gets above 75 Deg this summer..

Other than the loss of velocity, accuracy was as good as h4350 with better es and sd.... But h4350 definitely did not change avg velocity from. 73 Deg to 32 Deg, at least according to my limited data....

Shots fired avg 10 shots each powder over magnetospeed chronograph...
 
Frogman & OP,
A couple years back, I added a heating pad & a freezer set up right next to the chrono. Now I can get a realistic summer VS winter temperature split to measure MV/thermal stability as part of the normal work-up process. In September, the MV of an H4350 30-06 load in a 24" 1x10 Krieger was measured at +135F & -10F (below). Thermal stability of H4350 looked very good. ES was a little larger than I would like but quite acceptable for a hunting load IMO. Will refine the load's ES/SD with better brass/different primer when time allows. I now have +135F VS -10F thermal stability numbers on Varget/H4895/H4350/TAC/AA2520 along with a couple of popular factory loadings. What I just don't know yet is whether thermal stability of a specific propellant is caliber-specific or relatively smooth across different calibers. 02.

180gr. TTSX over 57.5gr H4350 in FC 30-06 brass with 200 primer@ 3.350" COAL: Load data says 57.5gr. only generates 49,300 PSI & fired primer condition on this MAX listed charge looked like what I would expect from a starting load

2803/2800/2833/2836/2812: Average MV 2819 FPS with ES of 36 FPS

2834 FPS at +135 Degrees F:
2822 FPS at -10 Degrees F:
---------------------------------
12 FPS difference in MV over 145 Degrees F
 
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The other variable I had not considered was whether or not a magnum primer would make a difference with the ramshot hunter.. I may try that the next time out..

As far as case design, I'm not sure. I have seen or heard of some cAses being more efficient than others... Whether or not this affects how temperature resilient a powder is I could not say.... Unfortunately I don't have a different caliber (yet) to test this against... I think the 6.5 creedmoor would be an excellent choice to test ramshot hunter in as h4350 seems to be a popular powder choice in that cartridge. If I had one right now I would do it for sure...
 
Clark,
I am just a fellow shooter who has been enjoying rifles for 55 of his years. The "salesmanship" from the manufacturers in regard to thermal stability is such that actual results seen by fellow shooters carry more weight IMO. Thanks for the links!