Term Limits Shredding

[1J04]

Haven't even finished it, but I gotta post this up NOW. Why hasn't this been posted yet. I dunno.

Love it !!

 

[madppcs]

Can someone post the summary of the video? Im offshore and cant stream videos.

 

[Scott037]

Basicly the guy said we all want term limits and theyre throwing a fit and blocking it

 

[abn31c]

Actually getting term limits imposed is just mental masturbation. It will take the battle to get them.

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

Term limits will never happen.

The common response is "Sure . . . Get rid of all of them - except my guy. I like him."

 

[Crang]

While Im for term limits, I'll play devils advocate here. Since we had them under the Articles of Confederation they were openly debated before our founders intentionally dropped them in the Constitution. The winning case for dropping them is in Federalist Paper 53. Madison argued that waves of inexperienced legislators would be more easily manipulated and fall into traps. There would also be less information on them- voters would more often be voting on an unknown entity. Basically someones time in office can be used to vet them for future elections and eventually have a more credible body than a bunch of wolfs in sheeps clothing (or a dodo bird in sheeps clothing) every time.

There is some level of truth to this. Imagine if every election half the people on the ballot were unknown with no voting record. The only way to assess them is what they said campaigning (usually lies) and what is said about them in the media (usually lies). Instead of corporate interests and lobbyists paying them off once in office- they will pay to put them in office through media hype, campaign contributions, etc.. Term limits are just changing how the corruption operates and you cant reelect the few good ones.

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

snip . . .

Imagine if every election half the people on the ballot were unknown with no voting record. The only way to assess them is what they said campaigning (usually lies) and what is said about them in the media (usually lies). Instead of corporate interests and lobbyists paying them off once in office- they will pay to put them in office through media hype, campaign contributions, etc.. Term limits are just changing how the corruption operates and you cant reelect the few good ones.

Sounds like a great way to elect a President every eight years.

 

[_Windrider_]

I think something more effective than term limits (although I do think something needs to be done) is getting rid of big omnibus voting bills where they sleep shit in on the budget or anything else. Each and every issue should stand on its own so you know exactly how your rep voted. It’s hard to call someone anti gun because they voted for universal background checks when that was included in a bill that was primarily about the budget or something else.

 

[Soulezoo]

While Im for term limits, I'll play devils advocate here. Since we had them under the Articles of Confederation they were openly debated before our founders intentionally dropped them in the Constitution. The winning case for dropping them is in Federalist Paper 53. Madison argued that waves of inexperienced legislators would be more easily manipulated and fall into traps. There would also be less information on them- voters would more often be voting on an unknown entity. Basically someones time in office can be used to vet them for future elections and eventually have a more credible body than a bunch of wolfs in sheeps clothing (or a dodo bird in sheeps clothing) every time.

There is some level of truth to this. Imagine if every election half the people on the ballot were unknown with no voting record. The only way to assess them is what they said campaigning (usually lies) and what is said about them in the media (usually lies). Instead of corporate interests and lobbyists paying them off once in office- they will pay to put them in office through media hype, campaign contributions, etc.. Term limits are just changing how the corruption operates and you cant reelect the few good ones.

I don't disagree per se.

What I found with term limits in California, was that the entrenched pols simply moved from post to post. We never got rid of them like you think. They supported each other... term out in the assembly and then you get a Senate seat. Term out there and you get appointments to different boards where you get a fat check to show up 4 times a year. Then it's mayor, or gov.

 

[EddieNFL]

While Im for term limits, I'll play devils advocate here. Since we had them under the Articles of Confederation they were openly debated before our founders intentionally dropped them in the Constitution. The winning case for dropping them is in Federalist Paper 53. Madison argued that waves of inexperienced legislators would be more easily manipulated and fall into traps. There would also be less information on them- voters would more often be voting on an unknown entity. Basically someones time in office can be used to vet them for future elections and eventually have a more credible body than a bunch of wolfs in sheeps clothing (or a dodo bird in sheeps clothing) every time.

There is some level of truth to this. Imagine if every election half the people on the ballot were unknown with no voting record. The only way to assess them is what they said campaigning (usually lies) and what is said about them in the media (usually lies). Instead of corporate interests and lobbyists paying them off once in office- they will pay to put them in office through media hype, campaign contributions, etc.. Term limits are just changing how the corruption operates and you cant reelect the few good ones.

What do you think Madison would say now?

 

[_Windrider_]

What do you think Madison would say now?

I don’t think he would say anything about term limits. That’s not the big issue. The big issue is money in politics.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You won't get term limits without a constitutional amendment so pretty much it's a dead end idea until some major upheaval.

 

[Redmanss]

You won't get term limits without a constitutional amendment so pretty much it's a dead end idea until some major upheaval.

I’m game for that.

The only way I see it happening is to grandfather all current politicians, and the only way to make it effective is to limit them to all combined congressional service at 18 years.

 

[Crang]

I don’t think he would say anything about term limits. That’s not the big issue. The big issue is money in politics.

I think he would be horrified Congress is a high paying job with special benefits that attracts the most vane and corrupt among us. Congressional pay was originally $6 per day they showed up. To put that in perspective I just ran the calculation and adjusting for inflation thats $89.43 in todays dollars. Congress is in session on average 162 a year. Its members certainly dont show up every day but even if they did for all 162 days thats $14,487.66 a year before taxes. In other words- dont quit your day job. Your service is a sacrifice not a career.

In fact in 1816 they voted to give Congressman a flat rate of $1500/year and the nation was so outraged they voted to undo it in 1817. Its of course devolved since, resulting in us having the very wrong category of people in office now. Its been that way for so long, no one seems to remember what it was supposed to be.

Interestingly, the Confederate government brought back term limits- so it was clearly on their mind again trying to correct past wrongs.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I'm for Term Limits but I think we'd be better off with holding our Representatives to their oaths of office under the threat of criminal prosecution. They take an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic, and then repeatedly either draft or support/vote for unconstitutional legislation with impunity.

If I go into a court of law and swear to tell the truth, the whole, truth and nothing but the truth SO Help ME God, and I'm caught at perjury I go to jail.

If a Representative or Senator drafts legislation that is determined to be unlawful/unconstitutional, that person should be tried for breach of oath and jailed. Not elected again - ever. criminal offense to draft or support unlawful/unconstitutional legislation.

VooDoo

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm for Term Limits but I think we'd be better off with holding our Representatives to their oaths of office under the threat of criminal prosecution. They take an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic, and then repeatedly either draft or support/vote for unconstitutional legislation with impunity.

If I go into a court of law and swear to tell the truth, the whole, truth and nothing but the truth SO Help ME God, and I'm caught at perjury I go to jail.

If a Representative or Senator drafts legislation that is determined to be unlawful/unconstitutional, that person should be tried for breach of oath and jailed. Not elected again - ever. criminal offense to draft or support unlawful/unconstitutional legislation.

VooDoo

Problem is they're "self-policing." Once in office, the only sway we as citizens hold is the vote. Politicians have been conditioned (rightly so) to believe as long as they say what we want to hear, they're good to go.

 

[wilson1911]

Then why do we keep voting for the same people in every election ? Most can agree it does not matter what party's sticker is on their forehead, they are all the same.

When I go to the booth, I never reelect anyone. Only on election day do you matter to a politician, the rest of the time we are irrelevant.

 

[Rthur]

Then why do we keep voting for the same people in every election ? Most can agree it does not matter what party's sticker is on their forehead, they are all the same.

When I go to the booth, I never reelect anyone. Only on election day do you matter to a politician, the rest of the time we are irrelevant.

Do "We"?

R

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

We do. But I'm of the opinion the system is rigged at this point so, vote how ya want.

We are owned.

VooDoo

 

[Scarface26]

Term Limits are a great idea. The founders were smart, but they counted on character, which seems to be in short supply these days.

The idea that the country "needs" any particular man is the height of arrogance. Did the Army croak after Audie Murphy got out? Did the Marine Corps dry up and blow away after John Basilone was killed? No and no. If the Army can get along without Audie Murphy I submit that all of us can do just fine without seven terms of McCain, Schumer, Kornyn, Feinstein, etc. @Crang, thanks for the historical perspective. I'm working my way thru the Fed papers. I've gotta disagree with their take on "experienced legislators", for now.

It was said above, but money is the reason for this. There can't be a retirement. There can't be one thing better about being a politician than there is about being a LCpl. No special medical benefits, no "senate dining room" or "senate gym." I thought these guys got their cardio chasing interns or swimming at Chappaquiddick. As far as their strength training, they don't have the backbone for weights.

We look at political office the wrong way. It isn't something to which you aspire, any more than a person aspires to serve on jury duty. It's just something you have to do, a duty. Politicians act like they're elected royalty when the reality is that they are nothing more than a watch stander - you know- preserve, protect, and defend the COTUS to the best of my ability. I could care less how many "pieces of legislation" they've passed. Most of the clowns in office are Daryl from Red Dawn come to life. Is it any wonder we don't want to associate with them or God forbid, run for office ourselves. But, until we get guys in office who aren't Daryls, SSDD.

God bless America

 

[Rthur]

I'm in agreement.
Problem is this, it is equivalent to asking children who have the keys to the ice cream shop
to stop eating ice cream.

R