Hunting & Fishing Terminal Effects

[mudvayne]

Ok fellers..Im starting a new thread on here for Terminal effects of bullets. If you have a moral problem with shooting animals in the head this is not the thread you will want to see. Trust me just hit back and seek knowledge elsewhere.

Having said that, my brother clones whitetailed deer. In order to do this he has to have a LOT of doe to extract overies out of. Well turns out that makes my life a lot better because he has hired me out to shoot deer every weekend of the legal season for high fenced ranches all over texas. I am simply hired out as a trigger man and this helps me prep for competitions too...not to mention all the free meat I can cram in my freezer!!! I am very interested in terminal ballistics and like to take pics of all the wounds of the animals I shoot. After shooting about 300 doe over the last couple of years, I have learned a lot about bullet selection on both close and long range hunting. I have seen both good and bad shots with a crap load of different projectiles over the last few seasons. I am simply going to post pics of the head shots I make this year and tell you what caliber, bullet, and velocity I was using. Also I will state the distance each animal was shot at.

So this weekend was the first doe kill we went on. Of course they rely on me to do most of the heavy hitting and I only saw one stinkin doe the whole time LOL! Between everyone who showed up there were 8 doe killed. I will only put pics of mine up because most of the hunters there were...iffy at best with their marksmenship skills. Yes they made a lot of gut shots.

Here is my #1 for the season. 6.5x47 lapua with a 130 gr Berger hunting VLD @2940 fps. She was 211 yards
The Bullet actually hit in line with her eyes vertically and the hydrolic pressure was so violent it ripped all the way to her nose almost. Very impressed with the hunting VLD's

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Wow, I will definitely be trying out those Berger hunting VLDs when I get my .260 built. Impressive indeed. I just posted a thread titled "Putting the 105 gr amax to work" with pictures of the boar and 5 does I shot over the past two weekends, all head shots, if you want to see how they performed. I was pretty impressed with the results. The Amax seems to dump a lot of energy in a relatively short amount of travel after penetration. One doe, shot at 70 yards, was looking up at me and when the bullet entered her muzzle, it caused the lower jaw to completely explode, leaving just a piece of skin. Another was shot while facing away from me at 60 or so yards; the bullet entered her neck just below the ear, proceeding into the cranial cavity and causing the contents to be expelled from her ears.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: Terminal Effects

Good stuff boudin. I like the amax out to around 600 yards. I have shot a few with it at mid to semi long range and the bullet didnt open up. The doe ran almost 400 yards before losing blood pressure. That was in a 300WM too in the 208. I will have a look at your thread. If you want to start adding all your pics to mine I think that would make a good terminal ballistics thread.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Terminal Effects

I used the old Berger VLDs when there was only one kind of Berger. I had VERY excellent results, myself. Very nice shoot, man!

 

[Scotty22]

Re: Terminal Effects

Here is a doe I shot last year with a 155 grain Berger VLD out of my 300wm

 

[mudvayne]

Re: Terminal Effects

Thanks Tyler.

Scotty that's what I like to see.

I want as many terminal reports as we can get on here and I would like all to say whether the deer was dry or if they ran at all.

 

[mudvayne]

Re: Terminal Effects

I'm trying the 300 gr bergers this weekend on white tail and mule deer

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Consolidating these pics to your thread. Hopefully I'll have some more to contribute in two weeks.

All were shot with the 105 gr Hornady AMAX going 2775 fps out of a .243 Win.

225 lb boar shot under the ear on the trot at 52 yards, no exit. DRT.

Doe shot at 56 yards, quartering towards me with head turned away, bullet entered under the left ear. The rear legs collapsed while her front legs simultaneously sprung and locked out, causing her to sit totally upright for 3-5 seconds while material from the missing portion of her right lobe, fell from up in the air. I've seen some funky shots, but seeing that all unfold through the scope was pretty shocking. Needless to say, DRT.

Doe shot at 65-ish yards, facing straight on, head tilted up slightly. Bullet entered under her nose, shattering most of the bones in the muzzle, jaw, and around the orbital sockets. DRT.

Doe shot at 28 yards, facing away, head down. Bullet entered the left side of the neck ~2 inches below the ear, proceeded into the skull and did not exit (unless it came through the mouth). The hydrostatic shock ruptured her eardrums and caused extensive hemorrhaging from the oral cavity. DRT.

Doe (which was with doe in previous picture) shot at 70-ish yards, standing broadside, head turned facing me, looking slightly upward. Bullet entered about midway between the nose and eye, destroying the lower jaw and coming to rest in the skull. Also DRT.

Doe shot at 17 yards, quartering towards me, looking straight to her 12 o'clock. This is the entrance wound; no exit. Signs of petechial hemorrhaging in the eye above the entrance. DRT.

 

[Kinsman]

Re: Terminal Effects

I just shot a doe this morning, but it was a heart shot. If I had remembered this thread I would have posted pictures. I will say that doe didn't know she was dead, and ran about 50 feet. I was using a 165 gr spitzer soft point in my 308, loaded about midrange. Absolutely scrambled everything in the chest cavity. Destroyed the heart, lungs, and even ruptured the liver. Horribly bloody mess.
I'll headshoot the next one and post pictures, if I can ever learn how.

 

[Scotty22]

Re: Terminal Effects

I'm sitting in the blind right now in south Texas hopefully I will have more to report Monday when I upload the photos to my computer.


As for the early pic I posted the deer made it as far as to the dirt.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Terminal Effects

I like this thread, and these are great pics, but does anyone have some pictres and examples from a bit further down range?

 

[Landis45]

Re: Terminal Effects

Tag.... this is a great thread mudvayne, Look forward to seeing more pics!

 

[Tikkad]

Re: Terminal Effects

load data should but terminal velocity at 2840 fps with the 115gr nosier ballistic tip. deer was looking straight with a slight quarter. bullet entered through her right eye. above picture is exit wound. i was actually very surprised as to the lack of trauma. i think with going through the eye socket the bullet just didn't face enough obstacles or have enough time to really blow up. I did however throw the head in the boiler just to see what the skull looked like. i might still have it this was last year. the entire skull was fractured like a spiderweb on the whole brain cavity. very very interesting

 

[Insayn]

Re: Terminal Effects

I just got back from a weekend hunt and decided to take my .308 down there in the event I decided to sit on and shoot across the large fields at distance. I used some handloads of 155 Lapua Scenars after seeing a lot of peoples success here. I ended up sitting in my blind near a crossroad where the deer would cross the roads with a small window of opportunity. I shot one doe at 162 yards crossing a small path just under her left ribcage as she was quartering away. It appeared the angle I had on her that the projectile would exit the front chest cavity. Nope....either I had a bad angle or it yawed and blew out her right shoulder with a huge 3"+ exit wound. She did a jump and donkey kick and ran about 30 yards and dropped.

After locating her I moved back to the blind with plenty of daylight. I saw the bucks around here are already chasing the does around. In less than an hour a doe popped out along a fork in the same road with a buck behind her. I waited until he was looking up and put one into his neck this time to try and save most of the meat. Well...the 155 Lapua hit his spine just above his shoulders and deflected the projectile and sent bone fragments into his left shoulder. So another shoulder ruined with heavy trauma.

I was considering bringing my .223 back down next time and perhaps using our duty round (55 grain Winchester Ballistic Silver Tip) and going for head or higher neck shots at broadside if opportunity allows. My co-worker and hunting partner shot a buck with his .223 and the Winchester projectile and destroyed the deer. Perfect broadside shot behind the shoulder, but it hit a rib and the projectile, as designed, fragmented sending mulitiple projectiles through the bucks body as well as rib bone. It never exited and when dressed out looked like someone shot it with a 12 gauge and bird shot. I should have took some internal pictures, but was too busy cleaning and quartering.

I'll get pics up in a sec.

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

This is a buck my friend shot the other weekend and, while it is not necessarily an illustration of terminal effects, I wanted to post it to address the subject of shot placement and how a seemingly good shot can go awry.

My friend was letting this guy walk, until he noticed a strange abnormality on his neck, coupled with an apparent degree of difficulty walking, and decided to put him down. After further inspection on the ground we found that this buck had, what I previously would have expected to be a fatal gunshot wound. In this picture, the noticeably bloody spot is the exit wound of my friend's 7mm-08, which entered behind the opposite shoulder while quartering away (DRT). However, what you can also see right above that wound, is the maggot filled exit wound of another, older shot, which entered at approximately the same location as the exit, on the opposite side of the neck. The bullet from that shot either went in between the spine and trachea or just missed the spine on the opposite side as well as any major arteries, allowing this guy to walk around quite uncomfortably for who knows how long.

 

[Ghillie man]

Re: Terminal Effects

tag. if i can learn how to post pics i shot a doe 17 yards away with a 250 grain shock wave from my t/c inline. hit between the eye and ear she was dead before the slug exited her.

 

[Scotty22]

Re: Terminal Effects

300wm 155 grain berger VLD 3260fps 224 yards head shot

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Here's some results from our last trip out.

Shot with 105 AMAX @ 2775:

126 yds./ exit wound/ DRT

130 yds./ exit wound/ DRT

200 yds./ exit wound/ DRT

This one was shot with a .270 Win using 130 gr. Federal Fusion factory ammo. 132 yds., entry in top of skull, exit was a .5-.75" hole through the underside of the chin. Eardrums ruptured in this one as well; DRT.

This was the .75" exit wound of a broadside heart/lung shot on a buck at 100-ish yds with Winchester Supreme Elite XP3. Ran approximately 50 yds.

This was the entrance wound of a buck shot while quartering away at 250 yds with a 100 gr Sierra Gameking; no exit. Ran approximately 80 yards. Wasn't a single drop of blood so we had to track him by his hoof-prints.

No pics of the feral dog that fucked up Monday afternoon's hunt. The first 85 gr Sierra Gameking caught it a little far back while it was on the run at 115 yards. It dropped and started break dancing, so another to the head turned the lights out.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boudin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Curious, did you guys eat this deer? and is it safe to do so? or how did you care for it after the shot to avoid "seasoned" meat?

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

We did not. He took it to his processor to have the rack cut off and was going to donate the meat, but they were reluctant to process it and did not want it. Personally, I wouldn't have eaten it if it were mine, considering the potential for some infection in the wound to spread throughout the circulatory system. Whether or not that could actually happen... I dunno, but I don't see it being worth the risk. My friend just wanted to put him out of his misery.

I posted this picture in another thread, but since we are on the topic of edible or not... would you feel comfortable eating the meat off this guy?

When I first saw him I thought "hell no". After showing the pictures to Karl Miller and talking with him, he confirmed that it was a serious scrotal hernia, where a portion of his intestines/mesenteries were inside his coin purse, but that it wouldn't pose any risk to the meat.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Terminal Effects

YIKES

dont think that felt too good.

I had a sorta similar situation a few years ago, a friend and I pushed a couple of bucks up a draw to my brothers. A little 2X3 came up in front of my brother, who quickly dispatched him with my 25-06(100gr Hndy sp 49gr of I4831) upon inspection of the buck we found a wound in the right shoulder, it was gooey and smelled. We were reluctant to take it all, but we did chop off anything even close to the goo. I guess better that, than him to suffer forever and get taken down by coyotes or something.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YIKES

dont think that felt too good.

I had a sorta similar situation a few years ago...</div></div>

Couldn't help but cringe when I read this after seeing that pic.

Most times I am pretty much a wimp when it comes to eating meat (game or domestic) that I know had any sort of infection. The whole testicular hernia thing or whatever it was? That doesn't seem like something that would affect meat flavor. I'd probably eat the meat.

No deer hunting for me until mid-winter flintlock season.

-The Kid.

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Some more damage from this past weekend. All shot with the 105 gr A-Max from a .243 Win, @ 2775 fps.

Was walking to my stand Saturday morning at 6:30 am and as I got close, I saw a large black blob through the pines, out in the plot. I hit it with my light and saw that there were several hogs 30-40 yards from me. I cut the light and was able to silhouette them really well through the scope, so I took a knee and put the cross hair on the head of one of the larger ones. Dropped it cold and listened as all the others raised hell while clearing out. The bullet exited under her right cheek/ear with a nickel sized wound.

About 15 minutes later, after I got in the stand, another hog came out about 75 yards to my left. I couldn't silhouette her head as easily as the 1st one due to her location, so I put it on her shoulder instead. She took off like a bat outta hell after the shot, crashing through trees all the way, and came to rest 25 yards away. There really wasn't much to photograph in terms of terminal effects, as the entrance was tiny and obscured by the fur. There was no exit.

They were both in the 175-200 lb range and appeared to be predominantly of Russian lineage with smaller hams, really matted/wooly, mottled fur.

Took this doe that afternoon at 100-ish yards. The A-Max blew a hole wide and deep enough to put a golf ball in when it hit her spine, breaking her neck and dropping her without a step.

 

[bornhunter04]

Re: Terminal Effects

A few years ago, i shot a yearling, dropped her where she stood in the bean field, reloaded and then shot momma right between the shoulders as she had her head down feeding towards me. This was with a .50 front-stuffer and 245gr. aerotip powerbelts with 100 gr. of 777 behind them. Momma doe let out a loud bleet as she went down, didn't reload cuz well hell i'd just shot 2 deer and was busy watching one of her young who had ran towards me and was under my stand. Momma doe hopped up and booked it like the bats of hell were after her. Got down, there was some blood, not alot..... Lost the trail, searched the creek bottom below the field for about an hour with help, no sign of her. Both shots were somewhere in the 60-80 yard range.

Next evening i'm sitting in a differant stand probably 3-400 yards straight north of the stand where i had shot her the first time. Low and behold here she comes with a limp! So at about 50 yards i put the crosshairs about 1.5 below the base of her head, figured with the close shot the bullet would rise a bit since i was zeroed at 100. Hit her where i aimed, dropped her in her tracks. Got her loaded up and hauled out, when i skinned her out the next evening there was a nice bruise right where i'd shot her the night before. Wish i had taken pictures.... Damnedest thing i've seen.

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Just wanted to add these last few pics from the season to the thread. Both shot with .243 Win pushing the 105 gr A-Max @ 2775. I was able to fill my last two tags out with these.

161 yards in the right eye. The picture of the exit wound was out of focus, but it was a 1.5-2" hole behind her left eye. DRT.

220 yards broadside. Even though it felt like cheating, I wanted to test the A-Max on a shot to the vitals and this was my last chance. It performed really well, yielding a 1-1.5 inch exit wound and nice blood trail. She ran 20-30 yards after the shot, making her the first deer I had to "look" for all season.

Having used the A-Max all season, one thing I've noticed is the irregularity of the shape of the exit wounds, indicating to me that the bullet does not cleanly mushroom, but rather stays pretty ragged and in some instances fragments, especially after contacting substantial bone like the spine or skull. The thing that stands out to me most though, is how explosive these bullets are on impact, seemingly releasing a massive amount of energy in a very short distance after contacting the target. A couple of the head shots resulted in no exit wound, but severe fracturing of the surrounding skeletal structure. In my opinion, though the A-Max is not recommended as hunting bullet, I feel it has performed flawlessly in every application I have encountered.

 

[Tikkad]

Re: Terminal Effects

not exactly a trophy deer or a big gun but it shows what shot placemetn will do. I do some crop damage permit hunting in Maryland and the farmers want you to shoot everything with a tail.

all i had a was a 204 ruger. It was a compressed load with a 39Gr sierra Blitzking.

225 yards through the eye dropper her DRT

 

[Burglecutt]

Re: Terminal Effects

Hornaday 180 GR SP, 300WSM, 380 yards. Got'er right in the kill spot.

 

[KAman9803]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boudin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a buck my friend shot the other weekend and, while it is not necessarily an illustration of terminal effects, I wanted to post it to address the subject of shot placement and how a seemingly good shot can go awry.

My friend was letting this guy walk, until he noticed a strange abnormality on his neck, coupled with an apparent degree of difficulty walking, and decided to put him down. After further inspection on the ground we found that this buck had, what I previously would have expected to be a fatal gunshot wound. In this picture, the noticeably bloody spot is the exit wound of my friend's 7mm-08, which entered behind the opposite shoulder while quartering away (DRT). However, what you can also see right above that wound, is the maggot filled exit wound of
another, older shot, which entered at approximately the same location as the exit, on the opposite side of the neck. The bullet from that shot either went in between the spine and trachea or just missed the spine on the opposite side as well as any major arteries, allowing this guy to walk around quite uncomfortably for who knows how long.

</div></div>

This picture is the main reason why I do not shoot deer in the head/neck. While a good shot means a DRT, a bad shot leads to a deer walking around suffering with a terrible wound. I've always been a fan of heart/lung shots, they might run off but perforated lungs always lead to death.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sleepymonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This picture is the main reason why I do not shoot deer in the head/neck. While a good shot means a DRT, <span style="font-style: italic">a bad shot leads to a deer walking around suffering with a terrible wound.</span> I've always been a fan of heart/lung shots, they might run off but perforated lungs always lead to death. </div></div>

Bad shots always lead to deer walking around suffering, regardless of where you aim. Head, neck,chest,ect. Have you never seen a deer with 3 legs? or gutshot? It can happen no matter where you plan to take your game, it is simply always going to be a possibility. This subject seems to come up everytime we discuss any kind of ethics or unspoken rules about hunting. Somebody always has a better way to skin a cat, or a "more ethical" approach to a particular scenario. But in the end it is always this; you do it however you can do it best, and I will do it as best I can as well, that is all anyone can ask. For there will always be the occasional screw-ups, for one reason or another, our fault or not, that will result in an animal being wounded, and/or not recovered. This is simply a part of hunting that is beyond our control (unless we withdraw from the circle of life altogether), and while we should all do our best to minimize these events, we cannot keep them from happening. We have the sacred duty to be responsible as stewards of the land we hunt, and respect the life that we thrive upon. I would expect nothing less from anyone.

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sleepymonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This picture is the main reason why I do not shoot deer in the head/neck. While a good shot means a DRT, a bad shot leads to a deer walking around suffering with a terrible wound. I've always been a fan of heart/lung shots, they might run off but perforated lungs always lead to death. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok fellers..Im starting a new thread on here for Terminal effects of bullets. If you have a moral problem with shooting animals in the head this is not the thread you will want to see. Trust me just hit back and seek knowledge elsewhere.
</div></div>

 

[KAman9803]

Re: Terminal Effects

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sleepymonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This picture is the main reason why I do not shoot deer in the head/neck. While a good shot means a DRT, <span style="font-style: italic">a bad shot leads to a deer walking around suffering with a terrible wound.</span> I've always been a fan of heart/lung shots, they might run off but perforated lungs always lead to death. </div></div>

Bad shots always lead to deer walking around suffering, regardless of where you aim. Head, neck,chest,ect. Have you never seen a deer with 3 legs? or gutshot? It can happen no matter where you plan to take your game, it is simply always going to be a possibility. This subject seems to come up everytime we discuss any kind of ethics or unspoken rules about hunting. Somebody always has a better way to skin a cat, or a "more ethical" approach to a particular scenario. But in the end it is always this; you do it however you can do it best, and I will do it as best I can as well, that is all anyone can ask. For there will always be the occasional screw-ups, for one reason or another, our fault or not, that will result in an animal being wounded, and/or not recovered. This is simply a part of hunting that is beyond our control (unless we withdraw from the circle of life altogether), and while we should all do our best to minimize these events, we cannot keep them from happening. We have the sacred duty to be responsible as stewards of the land we hunt, and respect the life that we thrive upon. I would expect nothing less from anyone. </div></div>

Let me start by saying that I have no moral objection to taking head shots. If you are a good enough shot to do it then by all means go ahead. My main problem, and let me go ahead and say I'm not accusing anyone on here, is that a lot of people seem to think of themselves as amazing shots and aren't. I know quite a few guys around here who will say they will only take headshots but are satisfied with minute of pie plate accuracy. I've always advocated boiler room shots because it allows a larger margin of error. I did not intend to come off as preachy and if you feel comfortable shooting for the head then rock on.

 

[para38super]

Re: Terminal Effects

Come on guys, more pics.

 

[boudin]

Re: Terminal Effects

Deer season's out for me, so not much hunting going on. Hoping to let the A-Max loose on some more hogs next month though. Kinda thought mudvayne would be stocking this thread up with him being a hired deer assassin and all. Show us the damage man!

 

[Vereor]

Re: Terminal Effects

178gr Amax. 270 IIRC.

Same bullet around 30 yards...

50 yards or so... The deer that wouldn't die..

 

[Vereor]

Re: Terminal Effects

168gr SMK 30cal.

168gr AMAX

178gr Amax..

 

[Vereor]

Re: Terminal Effects

178gr Amax looking at me...

168gr Amax

175gr SMK...

 

[Vereor]

Re: Terminal Effects

168gr Amax..

220 gr SMK...

175gr SMK...

 

[Vereor]

Re: Terminal Effects

Lots of meat damage when you use "soft" bullets in the body and hit bone...