The 9th circus says felon has right to guns

[wade2big]

No it really doesn't and I'm not turning this into a big gov lies back and forth with you either. Purdue lost the fraud case for a reason, they lied, they admitted to lying...case over.

Now go adjust your foil hat and wash the shit stains from your recliner.

If you think the DOJ isn’t a cesspool of shit and a authority on anything other than brute force, you need to adjust your tinfoil hat. Siding with that evil organization to prove any point lost you any credibility in this discussion and the next.

 

[AngryKoala]

Read the entire article. Not a single piece of evidence to support your claim that they lied about addiction. It doesn't even suppose that they lied about adiction, it accuses them of failing to explain how the adaptability of the human body would lead to less than 12 hours of relief from a dose. That's the crux of the legal arguement, nothing at all about anyone claiming that it isn't addictive.

Like I said, you're just repeating a lie..

We will just have to agree to disagree. All of the reports, the investigation, charges and the executives admitting fault are not enough evidence then there is no reason to continue this discussion.

You are free to believe what you want.

 

[AngryKoala]

If you think the DOJ isn’t a cesspool of shit and a authority on anything other than brute force, you need to adjust your tinfoil hat. Siding with that evil organization to prove any point lost you any credibility in this discussion and the next.

Lol okay Wade have a good day snookums.

 

[mosin46]

"The U.S. Justice Dept. launched a criminal investigation, and in 2007 the company and three top executives pleaded guilty to fraud for downplaying OxyContin’s risk of addiction. Purdue and the executives were ordered to pay $635 million. The case centered on elements of Purdue’s marketing campaign that suggested to doctors that OxyContin was less addictive than other painkillers."

'You want a description of hell?' OxyContin's 12-hour problem #InvestigatingOxy

OxyContin's 12-hour problem

www.latimes.com

like everything else in this issue,there is NO 1 size fits all answer. covid/vaccine disaster is the most egregious recent example. the drug companies lie. demerol came out as a less addicting alternative to morphine-NOT! talwin was brought out as a more benign alt to opiates-NOT! the government grabbed onto control of pain management drugs in early 20th cent and if you think that is to benefit anything but gov power you need to wake up. be very careful about giving it control of your pain management. have docs over used and proscribed? yes. to make addicts? very,very rarely. barbs and benzos fall into the same pool. being overly concerned with their patients pain is not a crime.
there is little evidence that adequately treating serious pain leads to addiction. it can,but is not a majority of the time issue. people do want to get high and lie to their doctors. docs can't take enough time with an individual to get a good grip on how to manage this and most other issues. thank your government and insurance co for that.

 

[AngryKoala]

like everything else in this issue,there is NO 1 size fits all answer. covid/vaccine disaster is the most egregious recent example. the drug companies lie. demerol came out as a less addicting alternative to morphine-NOT! talwin was brought out as a more benign alt to opiates-NOT! the government grabbed onto control of pain management drugs in early 20th cent and if you think that is to benefit anything but gov power you need to wake up. be very careful about giving it control of your pain management. have docs over used and proscribed? yes. to make addicts? very,very rarely. barbs and benzos fall into the same pool. being overly concerned with their patients pain is not a crime.
there is little evidence that adequately treating serious pain leads to addiction. it can,but is not a majority of the time issue. people do want to get high and lie to their doctors. docs can't take enough time with an individual to get a good grip on how to manage this and most other issues. thank your government and insurance co for that.

Luckily there is more oversight now, however even with the oversight it is isn't difficult to catch doctors over prescribing. While working at a pharmacy we stopped filling scripts for a doctor and reported him because of how blatantly obvious it was.

Now if we wouldn't have done that, who would look out for the patients best interest?

You have to be your own health advocate. Doctors are given too much trust and like all humans they can be corrupted.

 

[mosin46]

when i was still working,it became painfully obvious that "pharmacy" had gained entirely too much power and influence. they wanted to control everything drug related at the clinical level using gov mandated standards and protocols. demanding accountability for everything according to their own rules generated by the gov. control,control,control always the goal. yes,everything in medicine should be followed and accessed. but i have seen way too many things done at the bedside that worked but were way out of "approved" usage to believe that government using pharmacy as foil should have any control over health/disease care. the covid abortion should have proven that at all levels. the lies start at the top for power and profit and filter down thru every stage.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

We will just have to agree to disagree. All of the reports, the investigation, charges and the executives admitting fault are not enough evidence then there is no reason to continue this discussion.

You are free to believe what you want.

There is no evidence that anyone lied to anyone about these opiates and whether or not they were addictive. Like I've said for the last 20 posts, it simply didn't happen. You're repeating a lie. You aren't alone, most people also believe the lie, but it is a lie nonetheless. You've had every opportunity to prove you're correct, and you can't. That doesn't strike you as odd, that something you are so absolutely convinced is true doesn't have a single shred of evidence anywhere? You can't produce a single shred of evidence to support your claim, but you just hit me with the same "trust me bro" as the last batter. Listen sir, it didn't happen.

 

[AngryKoala]

There is no evidence that anyone lied to anyone about these opiates and whether or not they were addictive. Like I've said for the last 20 posts, it simply didn't happen. You're repeating a lie. You aren't alone, most people also believe the lie, but it is a lie nonetheless. You've had every opportunity to prove you're correct, and you can't. That doesn't strike you as odd, that something you are so absolutely convinced is true doesn't have a single shred of evidence anywhere? You can't produce a single shred of evidence to support your claim, but you just hit me with the same "trust me bro" as the last batter. Listen sir, it didn't happen.

Well, they pled guilty to it so

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Well, they pled guilty to it so

That's a back room deal where a company worth trillions agrees to settle for a minimal amount of money to eliminate future suits?

You think that proves anything? This is a daily occurrence in corporate law.

 

[AngryKoala]

That's a back room deal where a company worth trillions agrees to settle for a minimal amount of money to eliminate future suits?

You think that proves anything? This is a daily occurrence in corporate law.

Have proof that's what happened?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Have proof that's what happened?

Seriously? A class action suit? You don't understand how that works? They agree to a set amount of cash, and in return, they are immune to any additional suits for any reason in relation to that product. It gives them immunity, forever. It's the sweetest deal ever for a corporation like that.

 

[AngryKoala]

Seriously? A class action suit? You don't understand how that works? They agree to a set amount of cash, and in return, they are immune to any additional suits for any reason in relation to that product. It gives them immunity, forever. It's the sweetest deal ever for a corporation like that.

Do you have proof that's what happened? That the executives and Purdue lied about lying so they could get a better deal.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Here, between all of them, (several aren't even on that list, and include distributors like Walmart and Walgreens), they were ordered to pay out $26B over the next 20 years. They made 5x that much selling the opiates, and with the settlement, they are immune to any additional penalties. That's a sweet deal.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Do you have proof that's what happened? That the executives and Purdue lied about lying so they could get a better deal.

I don't have to prove that anyone lied. That burden is on you. I'm telling you how a class action suit works. It's just like a plea deal, you plead guilty to a lesser charge and receive a deal. In this case, the penalties are financial.

 

[AngryKoala]

Here, between all of them, (several aren't even on that list, and include distributors like Walmart and Walgreens), they were ordered to pay out $26B over the next 20 years. They made 5x that much selling the opiates, and with the settlement, they are immune to any additional penalties. That's a sweet deal.

I don't have to probably that anyone lied. That burden of proof is on you. I'm telling you how a class action suit works. It's just like a plea deal, you plead guilty to a lesser charge and receive a deal. In this case, the penalties are financial.

No it's not, you are saying they didn't lie. They admitted to lying and were found guilty of it. Now if they falsely admitted to lying then where is a statement from the executives or Purdue?

Where is the proof?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

No it's not, you are saying they didn't lie. They admitted to lying and were found guilty of it. Now if they falsely admitted to lying then where is a statement from the executives or Purdue?

Where is the proof?

Man, this has gotten ridiculous. I've said repeatedly that nobody told anyone that opiates aren't addictive. You said that some executives admitted to lying in a plea deal (class action lawsuit). Who do you think they lied to? You think they told some current heroin junkies that opiates aren't addictive? The crux of the legal case that you shared was whether or not the pain relief lasted 12 hours. The article you shared claims that they knew that people would build up a tolerance to it, and the pain relief wouldn't last the full 12 hours with continued use. The suit claims that the executives told their sales reps to ignore that data and push the narrative of a 12 hour relief period to the doctors, even though they knew it wasn't true long term.

Now, how does that information make someone blow Juan in an alley for heroin? It doesn't. It caused zero addicts. You're either confused or disingenuous.

 

[AngryKoala]

Man, this has gotten ridiculous. I've said repeatedly that nobody told anyone that opiates aren't addictive. You said that some executives admitted to lying in a plea deal (class action lawsuit). Who do you think they lied to? You think they told some current heroin junkies that opiates aren't addictive? The crux of the legal case that you shared was whether or not the pain relief lasted 12 hours. The article you shared claims that they knew that people would build up a tolerance to it, and the pain relief wouldn't last the full 12 hours with continued use. The suit claims that the executives told their sales reps to ignore that data and push the narrative of a 12 hour relief period to the doctors, even though they knew it wasn't true long term.

Now, how does that information make someone blow Juan in an alley for heroin? It doesn't. It caused zero addicts. You're either confused or disingenuous.

You also are leaving out the part where they told doctors it was less addictive than other opiates. Something they were charged for and plead guilty to.

Oh gee, I wonder why they would do that. It's almost like they were trying to get doctors to prescribe their drug over the competition.

They plead guilty to it so unless you have some sort of document or statement to the contrary, you are speculating.

I'll ask again, where's the proof?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You also are leaving out the part where they told doctors it was less addictive than other opiates. Something they were charged for and plead guilty to.

Oh gee, I wonder why they would do that. It's almost like they were trying to get doctors to prescribe their drug over the competition.

They plead guilty to it so unless you have some sort of document or statement to the contrary, you are speculating.

I'll ask again, where's the proof?

You can't prove the only argument that you've had from the beginning, but you want me to prove what was in someone's mind when they took a plea deal? That's just ridiculous. Nobody knows that but the people involved. I've made no assertion about that, just explained (twice) how a plea deal or class action suit works.

It is less addictive than other opiates. That isn't a lie. Why are you so blind to the obvious truth of that statement?

 

[AngryKoala]

You can't prove the only argument that you've had from the beginning, but you want me to prove what was in someone's mind when they took a plea deal? That's just ridiculous. Nobody knows that but the people involved. I've made no assertion about that, just explained (twice) how a plea deal or class action suit works.

It is less addictive than other opiates. That isn't a lie. Why are you so blind to the obvious truth of that statement?

What argument do I need to prove? The proof is in the admission of guilt.

They are saying they did it, the actual people involved. However, you are stating they didn't.

Again, unless you have proof that their
admission of guilt is false then you have no leg to stand on. They were convicted of and admitted to lying about the addiction potential in comparison to other opiates. This (Among other things) was done in order to bolster more sales.

Not the first time an API manufacturer has lied.

Which opiates that were used for pain management at that time was Oxycontin less addictive than? Vicodin and morphine were popular options but Oxycontin beats both of those in addiction potential. Transdermal Fentanyl is about the only one I can think of.

So you think they went to all of these doctors and said " hey, we have this drug that's more addictive than vicodin or morphine but not as bad as fentanyl transdermal."

Or is it more plausible they stated it wasn't as addictive as any of the opiates currently offered due to the extended release mechanism. Which they later found out was a lie and conveniently didn't disclose that information.

They got caught lying, they admitted as much and were convicted of it. No proof needed on my end, it's all out there.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Even though I've broken it down a dozen times, you're still ignoring the facts. They admitted to lying about the time the dose lasted, not anything related to it's addictive nature. Stop lying, you can't prove the one thing you've claimed all along and now you're trying to do a victory dance based on a totally different fact. You are being very disingenuous.

You claimed doctors were telling people that it wasn't addictive.

That never happened. Nobody told any doctors to lie about the addictive nature of this drug.

You are attempting to twist the facts, but it won't work. All of your previous statements are still there, visible, easily readable. You were wrong, plain and simple, and like I said, you've been regurgitating a lie all day based on a Netflix documentary that you believe without doing a single iota of research on your own. You're wrong, and I don't care if you want to keep pretending that you aren't, the evidence is crystal clear in this thread for anyone to read.

 

[AngryKoala]

Even though I've broken it down a dozen times, you're still ignoring the facts. They admitted to lying about the time the dose lasted, not anything related to it's addictive nature. Stop lying, you can't prove the one thing you've claimed all along and now you're trying to do a victory dance based on a totally different fact. You are being very disingenuous.

You claimed doctors were telling people that it wasn't addictive.

That never happened. Nobody told any doctors to lie about the addictive nature of this drug.

You are attempting to twist the facts, but it won't work. All of your previous statements are still there, visible, easily readable. You were wrong, plain and simple, and like I said, you've been regurgitating a lie all day based on a Netflix documentary that you believe without doing a simple iota of research on your own. You're wrong, and I don't care if you want to keep pretending that you aren't, the evidence is crystal clear in this thread for anyone to read.

I'm not lying about anything it was what they admitted guilt to. It has been widely reported that they lied about the addictive potential of drug.

Where did I specifically state doctors were telling people it wasn't addictive?

I think you might be delusional at this point.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I'm not lying about anything it was what they admitted guilt to. It has been widely reported that they lied about the addictive potential of drug.

Where did I specifically state doctors were telling people it wasn't addictive?

I think you might be delusional at this point.

I'll use small words:

Prove in any way that anyone lied about the addictive nature of opiates.

Do it right here below this post to make it simple. The article you posted above says they admitted to lying about the length of time a dose lasts. That is not what you and super corndick have been telling us all day. The length of time a dose lasts is irrelevant and creates zero heroin addicts..

 

[M4orturnate]

I "loved" your post because you just contradicted yourself so hard.

In one post you're passionately explaining how it isn't the individual's fault, they are a prisoner of their genetics, and then there is this above where you rightfully explain that the only solution is extreme individual accountability. The accountability is both the prevention and the cure. It is the only thing that will ever work. Prohibition will never keep it away, education programs like DARE are and always have been a joke, so it falls on parenting. No parent of an addict wants to hear that, but you're the only one who can mitigate it, (and sometimes they can't stop it). But, once you have a full blown addict, they will never quit until they truly want to. That's the truth that nobody wants to believe, but it's all there is..

I agree with a lot of what you said except how it happens. Most addicts will tell you they were born that way and once they found their drug of choice they didn't really have any control over it. It's especially true with a lot of alcoholics. But yes to break the cycle requires elimination of the victims mentality and focusing on righting their wrongs.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I agree with a lot of what you said except how it happens. Most addicts will tell you they were born that way and once they found their drug of choice they didn't really have any control over it. It's especially true with a lot of alcoholics. But yes to break the cycle requires elimination of the victims mentality and focusing on righting their wrongs.

Then we don't disagree at all. If you look at what has been done to treat addiction in the last hundred years, including current methods, it just doesn't work. It's too soft. If we want to stop this shit, we have to be serious. America isn't ready for that conversation though.

 

[AngryKoala]

I'll use small words:

Prove in any way that anyone lied about the addictive nature of opiates.

Do it right here below this post to make it simple. The article you posted above says they admitted to lying about the length of time a dose lasts. That is not what you and super corndick have been telling us all day. The length of time a dose lasts is irrelevant and creates zero heroin addicts..

You are a lying cunt that has a reading comprehension problem.

I never said they lied about the addictive nature of opiates you fucken retard. Are you trolling or are you honestly this stupid?

I'll say it again in caps and maybe you can finally comprehend it. THEY LIED ABOUT THE ADDICTION POTENTIAL OF OXYCONTIN, THEY STATED IT WAS LESS ADDICTIVE THAN THE OTHER OPOID BASED TREATMENT OPTIONS. THIS INCLUDED VICODIN AND MORPHINE. OXYCONTIN WAS PROVEN TO HAVE A HIGHER ADDICTION POTENTIAL THAN THOSE TREATMENT OPTIONS. THEY TOLD DOCTORS (AS REPORTED BY A VARIETY OF OUTLETS) THAT IT WASNT AS ADDICTIVE AS OTHER OPOID BASED TREATMENT OPTIONS.

The length of time absolutely matters if you actually knew what you were talking about. You need to read up on the neurobiology of drug addiction and then read about drug kinetics as it relates to addiction in the human body.

You are so uninformed it is laughable.

Let's recap:
1. You are a liar.
2. You have zero capacity for reading comprehension.
3. You have very little to no knowledge of what you're talking about.

Dude legit lies and has the audacity to call me a liar.

 

[918v]

Addiction potential is a ridiculous concept.

 

[M4orturnate]

Then we don't disagree at all. If you look at what has been done to treat addiction in the last hundred years, including current methods, it just doesn't work. It's too soft. If we want to stop this shit, we have to be serious. America isn't ready for that conversation though.

I agree with that. It's not just addiction either. A little self awareness and the willingness to be uncomfortable and we might turn this thing around. But that's asking a lot I suppose

 

[Ronws]

I "loved" your post because you just contradicted yourself so hard.

In one post you're passionately explaining how it isn't the individual's fault, they are a prisoner of their genetics, and then there is this above where you rightfully explain that the only solution is extreme individual accountability. The accountability is both the prevention and the cure. It is the only thing that will ever work. Prohibition will never keep it away, education programs like DARE are and always have been a joke, so it falls on parenting. No parent of an addict wants to hear that, but you're the only one who can mitigate it, (and sometimes they can't stop it). But, once you have a full blown addict, they will never quit until they truly want to. That's the truth that nobody wants to believe, but it's all there is..

Anthony Denison did great work as Andy Flynn on "The Closer," later rebranded as "Major Crimes" after Kyra Sedgewick left the show.

Flynn was a recovering alcoholic. I remember this one episode like it was yesterday. In so many words, he said, "I am not cured of anything. All I can say is that I did not drink today."

That is the path of the AA or NA or whatever substance you have to stop. 1 year, 5 year, 10 year chips are great. But really, what is greater, is when you simply say that you did not drink, or get high, or smoke today.

No, I am not against drinking. Or even marriage-awanna. Just saying that when you have to quit something that is killing you, there is no easy fix. The patient has to make that decision every damn day. Tough as that is, the alternative is worse.

 

[AngryKoala]

Addiction potential is a ridiculous concept.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

You are a lying cunt that has a reading comprehension problem.

I never said they lied about the addictive nature of opiates you fucken retard. Are you trolling or are you honestly this stupid?

I'll say it again in caps and maybe you can finally comprehend it. THEY LIED ABOUT THE ADDICTION POTENTIAL OF OXYCONTIN, THEY STATED IT WAS LESS ADDICTIVE THAN THE OTHER OPOID BASED TREATMENT OPTIONS. THIS INCLUDED VICODIN AND MORPHINE. OXYCONTIN WAS PROVEN TO HAVE A HIGHER ADDICTION POTENTIAL THAN THOSE TREATMENT OPTIONS. THEY TOLD DOCTORS (AS REPORTED BY A VARIETY OF OUTLETS) THAT IT WASNT AS ADDICTIVE AS OTHER OPOID BASED TREATMENT OPTIONS.

The length of time absolutely matters if you actually knew what you were talking about. You need to read up on the neurobiology of drug addiction and then read about drug kinetics as it relates to addiction in the human body.

You are so uninformed it is laughable.

Let's recap:
1. You are a liar.
2. You have zero capacity for reading comprehension.
3. You have very little to no knowledge of what you're talking about.

Dude legit lies and has the audacity to call me a liar.

Wow, you really went off the deep end there. You are calling me a liar? That's really interesting. I'll tell you what I'm going to do here, because you are actually this ridiculous, I'm just going to post your posts, and then anyone who wants to can decide who the liar is here.

The strength of addiction matters. The molecular structure matters as it affects the pharmcokinetics of the drugs as well as the addiction potential.

There are a plethora of things outside of drugs that are addictive such as candy but the capacity of the item to cause a release (amount and time) of dopamine determines the addiction potential.

They lied about how addictive the drug was, they used trusted doctors to prescribe and those ignorant of the potential harm became addicted.

There is a reason they lost and it has nothing to do with absolving personal blame.

Candy is addictive and yet no one states it is not. However, we can have candy without ending up on the street sucking dicks for skittles. Why?

The addiction potential matters and it varies from person to person and drug to drug.

If I pop a vicodin one time, more than likely I'm not going to be an addict. I can take fentanyl one time and be an addict. The reason why is in the structure of the drugs (Usually a greater degree of methylation or longer carbon chains).

Fentanyl will absorb quicker and create a massive flood of dopamine in a short amount of time. Fentanyl has a very high addiction potential. Candy, while it can become addictive, it does not have the same addiction potential.

I'm sure they knew it was addictive but they didn't know how addictive and it was the doctors whom prescribed the drugs to relay that information and monitor the patient. It was a systemic failure predicated on lies from Purdue and doctors that were paid off.

The problem is they did lie. They said it wasn't as addictive and it most certainly was more addictive. You can have the opinion that the individual is responsible for their decisions and that's fine but to state the physicians and Purdue didn't lie is ludicrous.

 

[AngryKoala]

Wow, you really went off the deep end there. You are calling me a liar? That's really interesting. I'll tell you what I'm going to do here, because you are actually this ridiculous, I'm just going to post your posts, and then anyone who wants to can decide who the liar is here.

This is what you said I stated:

"You claimed doctors were telling people that it wasn't addictive."

Go through my posts, where did I state that.

Again, you are either trolling or you are stupid. Hopefully it is the former and not the latter.

Either way you are 100% a lying cunt.