The Next Trayvon Martin Case?

[Snuby642]

A gun thief, gets even better.

Known felon?
Possesion/ theft of weapon ?
Paroll violation?

Video evidence?

Everybody all of a sudden questions response of a leo now that he is retired?

Normal majority hide response is overwhelming leo support untill proven guilty.

Is it age discrimination clouding judgment or a newfound deeply repressed urge to join the sjw crowd?

 

[JakeM]

Ok, ok.....just horrible.
So if there isn't any justification at all under Georgia law, for what happened?
Then why pray tell, is the news reporting this guy was just out jogging.

Lebron James claiming black men are being hunted. Unfucking believable.

In Africa and Detroit they are by their own people.

 

[Bender]

Just make sure you understand trespassing, you have no rights to keep people out of the public access spaces and public spaces of your "neighborhood".

In addition, you'll find that getting guns and chasing down someone who doesn't have your property on them as they run and didn't just commit some violent crime, is a great way to spend your entire life savings on your lawyers keeping you out of jail.

We are nowhere near the point of needing to do our own justice and most probably wouldn't like it either as it will then be a two way range with probably some heel clickers as well telling you what you need to do at gunpoint.

This.

Race should have nothing to do with it. But it does. I guarantee it. And i have zero white guilt.

Remove all labels and this is a fucked up situation. period. That is all i'm getting at.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

This.

Race should have nothing to do with it. But it does. I guarantee it. And i have zero white guilt.

Remove all labels and this is a fucked up situation. period. That is all i'm getting at.

For some reason this seems to be very difficult for some people to accept.

 

[chiefethan]

"Brunswick News" said that? What does the police say?
The real information is out there....already.

Haven't seen a statistic released by the police listing the number of burglaries in the neighborhood prior to his death. Have you? If so, share it.

 

[Drew890]

"Brunswick News" said that? What does the police say?
The real information is out there....already.

It was the Police spokesman that said this.
“But according to Glynn County Police Lt. Cheri Bashlor, just one automobile burglary in the neighborhood was reported when a 9 mm pistol was stolen January 1 from an unlocked truck outside the McMichaels' home.“

A suspect in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery was involved in a previous investigation of him, recused prosecutor says | CNN

One of the men accused in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery was involved in a previous prosecution of Arbery, according to a letter written by a prosecutor who has since recused himself from the case.

www.cnn.com

 

[Drew890]

A gun thief, gets even better.

The suspect told the police that he “thought” that the victim looked like a person from a theft that had occurred months before.
That does not make someone a “gun thief“.
“according to a Glynn County Police report, Gregory McMichael told police he thought Arbery, 25, looked like a person suspected in a series of a recent break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood.“

 

[Rerun7]

So let’s put the shoe on the other foot. You see someone trespassing in your neighborhood after a rash of thefts and burglaries, you call 911, and go to detain him until law enforcement arrives. You legally open carry to defend yourself, because you don’t know how armed or how dangerous this guy might be. You approach him and tell him to stop, a very brief verbal altercation ensues, and he pivots 90* and comes at you on a dead run. How much of a beating do you have to take before you can defend yourself? If he successfully wrestles your weapon away can the other guy shoot him? What if he points it at you, then can your Dad shoot him? Or basically are the ROE do not fire until fired upon?

Simple... YOU DON‘T TRY TO DETAIN HIM...

you are asking for an incident if you open carry and try to detain someone.

What possession do you have that’s worth someone’s life and potentially spending the rest of your life in jail?

This isn’t an active shooter or violent crime. You aren’t defending your family or your life. They put themselves in this position out of stupidity.

Wake up and use your brain.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

What truly amazes me, is how many low to extremely low post count members we have in here, posting like their fucking keyboard is on fire.

 

[chiefethan]

What truly amazes me, is how many low to extremely low post count members we have in here, posting like their fucking keyboard is on fire.

I already told you, I'm a paid Arken shill.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

What truly amazes me, is how many low to extremely low post count members we have in here, posting like their fucking keyboard is on fire.

that's all it takes to amaze you? really? YOu must live everyday with the wonderment of a child. You lucky pony!

 

[SilentStalkr]

what you guys should be asking is how they are going to use this for gun control once the riots start.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

what you guys should be asking is how they are going to use this for gun control once the riots start.

respectfully what we should be doing is what that video posted earlier with the black guy is doing. Speaking up and saying what happened was wrong and as gun owners we don't condone it or that we welcome it going to court and letting the existing legal process take care of it.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Benjamin Crump is the Arbery's "attorney ".
Wonder if he will get Diamond Eugene to testify, that she talked to Arbery just seconds before he was hunted down by two Wiley redneck peckerwoods and murdered in the street for being black.

 

[Snuby642]

Are you in commifornia?

 

[DairyDictator]

So let’s put the shoe on the other foot. You see someone trespassing in your neighborhood after a rash of thefts and burglaries, you call 911, and go to detain him until law enforcement arrives. You legally open carry to defend yourself, because you don’t know how armed or how dangerous this guy might be. You approach him and tell him to stop, a very brief verbal altercation ensues, and he pivots 90* and comes at you on a dead run. How much of a beating do you have to take before you can defend yourself? If he successfully wrestles your weapon away can the other guy shoot him? What if he points it at you, then can your Dad shoot him? Or basically are the ROE do not fire until fired upon?

Considering you didn't have the right to detain him in the first place because you didn't explicitly witness a crime being committed (other than tresspassing but I'm not sure that would count considering the punishment is a ticket and an escort off the property), and it turned into 2 men defending their lives from either perspective, that leaves you responsible for starting the situation because you didnt have the right to detain them in the first place.

 

[MtnCreek]

I think we can all agree Ahmaud won't be doing any more stealing or assaulting and if Atlanta does burn, it will be a major improvement for the State of Georgia.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Stacy Abrams is gonna ride this pony to the White House with the wind blowing through her teeth.

Those are not teeth...............................Daz toofs bro, daz toofs.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

I don't think you even have a right to pursue a murderer after the fact with the means of deadly force.

You can follow and should they come upon another victim ventilate the attacker IF you feel the potential victim is in immediate risk of death or great bodily harm.

Otherwise you can't legally chase his ass to provoke a second deadly encounter.

So when you are robbed, car jacked or murdered we can all just sit on our porch and watch and laugh, you won't be upset. Because no matter what crime the vibrant and colorful youth of America commit you re all about their rights and do not believe it is legal to interrupt criminals. Why do we let cops do it?

 

[Snuby642]

We have some rules like shooting them in the back if running away from you is unsportsman like conduct unless maybe an extreanly hyannis crime.

But also a law I will paraphrase,
They can be shot for vandalism after dark, theft after dark to name a few.

No fear for your life prerequisite on those.

Welcome to Texas.

 

[Rthur]

We have some rules like shooting them in the back if running away from you is unsportsman like conduct unless maybe an extreanly hyannis crime.

But also a law I will paraphrase,
They can be shot for vandalism after dark, theft after dark to name a few.

No fear for your life prerequisite on those.

Welcome to Texas.

It's almost like they want the criminals to be in fear for their actions
instead of the law abiding citizens...

R

 

[Snuby642]

If more criminals were shot there would be less criminals and possibly less crime.

Jail doesn't seem to deter them much, if it did there would not be repeat offenders.

 

[chiefethan]

Still waiting for all the thief commentators to provide any sources of:
1) Serial burglaries in the area
2) Cause for Auhmed being a viable suspect
3) Even a criminal record of Auhmed

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Still waiting for all the thief commentators to provide any sources of:
1) Serial burglaries in the area
2) Cause for Auhmed being a viable suspect
3) Even a criminal record of Auhmed

The original reason for the confrontation was that the "jogger" was seen prowling in several homes under construction and trespassing on private property, 911 was called and these people went after him. One story mentioned his previous criminal record which was minor and did not appear to have any burglary charges. A "viable" suspect would be a guy "jogging" in a neighborhood he does not live in and trespassing on construction sites, looking to steal tools or equipment or case the area for his later return.

The video is damning in both directions. He grabbed the gun and confronted the guy trying to stop him when he could have easily just kept on jogging. He was obviously in better shape than those two fatties but he chose to fight. If the guy who confronted him would have let him just leave after the first shot, he would have probably died anyway and this wouldn't be as bad for him as it is going to be. That guy had a finger on the trigger when Auhmed grabbed the gun, causing a negligent discharge, manslaughter maybe? But that last shot in the back,if that is what it was, is going to land him in prison.

1. He looks like he was wearing street clothes to "jog". Is there any proof whatsoever that he was a fitness nut who "loved to jog"?
2. Where is a recent picture of him? Not the 11th grade picture so popular when "vibrant youths" get killed.
3. Do you really think random white men are patrolling their neighborhoods armed looking for black people to shoot?

 

[oldiephrt]

You missed it, the guy in the back of the truck was the investigator, not the shooter.

Thank you for the polite reset.

 

[JakeM]

It would help if we could hear the 911 tape. And there side of the story, I can’t find anything except that they are being charged.

 

[Zip Detmer]

It would help if we could hear the 911 tape. And there side of the story, I can’t find anything except that they are being charged.

You can find audio from two 911 calls. The first one seems like it may be the son, but uncertain. The second is the dad/retired LEO and seems to extend into the time of confrontation.

 

[JakeM]

911 calls in the Ahmaud Arbery shooting death | FOX 5 Atlanta

The 911 calls from minutes before Ahmaud Arbery was shot on a residential road in south Georgia while jogging.

www.google.com

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Stacy Abrams is gonna ride this pony to the White House with the wind blowing through her teeth.

Is that what that whistling sound I’m hearing is?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

It was the Police spokesman that said this.
“But according to Glynn County Police Lt. Cheri Bashlor, just one automobile burglary in the neighborhood was reported when a 9 mm pistol was stolen January 1 from an unlocked truck outside the McMichaels' home.“

A suspect in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery was involved in a previous investigation of him, recused prosecutor says | CNN

One of the men accused in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery was involved in a previous prosecution of Arbery, according to a letter written by a prosecutor who has since recused himself from the case.

www.cnn.com

Aha.....the truth will out. You are gonna find more incidents....when you ask for them.
This reporter asked for police reports from December through February....big mistake.
Your source ONLY asked for January and February.
I bet there haven't been any more.....

 

[jakelly]

That's not what happened here, so why ask?

It’s a rhetorical question. The point of which is to demonstrate that the dude was getting attacked.

I’m not defending the guys, I’m not sure whether they’re on the right side of the law on this or not. Don’t love their position or their choices. I don’t think they went out to murder the guy, or even harm him. I don’t think the guy was jogging either, he wasn’t even sweating. Also, his response to the limited confrontation seems off. That linked audio seems like it’s missing an important piece, the guy’s answer to the question, “I just need to know what he was doing wrong? Was he just on the premises and not supposed to be?”, then whistles and static for 5 seconds, and then the guy says, “up on it, and he’s been caught on camera a bunch before, at night”. There’s a lot to investigate, toxicology and a warrant for the victim’s house would be top of my list. Not sure even if the kid did steal the two guns, and was there stealing again, that the guys are off the hook.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The two men claim they were trying to initiate a "citizens arrest" on someone they believed had been burglarizing homes in the area. Right or wrong, the black guy decided to fight with one of the men holding the shotgun. The shotgun appears to go off while the two are struggling. They didn't just roll up on the guy and blow him away. I would have said, OK, let's wait for the cops to arrive and let them sort this out. I would not have escalated the situation.

Wait wait wait.......if two people you have no idea who they are roll up on you with weapons (which is what we have to assume at this point until more if any details come about)......you’re just gonna do whatever they say and hope the police get there? Because the two people with guns told you they are holding you for the police?

GTFO.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Take the race of it, otherwise you're just being boondoggled with all the rest. Factor in past behaviors sure, but we don't have any detail in those areas.

I forget the Trayvon case, did he get held at gunpoint before the struggle or was it determined the gun came out after the fight ensued?

You can't legally hold someone in public at gunpoint in most places unless there is a forceable felony being committed.

The Martin case was in a gray area. Zimmerman shouldn’t have been off following him around, and Martin shouldn’t have attacked him. There was only two witnesses and one of them is dead. Zimmerman said the gun came out after he was attacked. So, without any other evidence to show otherwise, there was beyond a reasonable doubt and he was not guilty. It went the way it should have according to our justice system. Zimmerman is the only person alive who truly knows what happened and if he is guilty.

This one at the moment looks to be different.

 

[Tokay444]

Especially if you’re jogging with a hammer.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unless these two men can show some pretty compelling evidence they had a reason to approach someone while armed and attempt to detain him, they are in some deep shit.

I’ll keep an open mind they may be able to produce such evidence. But it’s gonna have to be something good.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Especially if you’re jogging with a hammer.

Was there a hammer recovered or seen? Haven’t seen anything about it. Though I haven’t seen every report I’m sure.

 

[JakeM]

Was there a hammer recovered or seen? Haven’t seen anything about it. Though I haven’t seen every report I’m sure.

0:17 of the shooting video there is a hammer in the road. Witch would make sense if the rumor is true they saw him lurking in a construction site.

 

[Dthomas3523]

0:17 of the shooting video there is a hammer in the road. Witch would make sense if the rumor is true they saw him lurking in a construction site.

I’ll go back and watch video.

Regardless, thus far I’ve seen:

There was surveillance video of someone trespassing several times at a construction site

These two guys think he might be the suspect

They arm themselves, follow him, confront him armed. Fight ensues, dude is dead.

Still gonna be a very hard road for them to prove why they were within their rights to approach and detain someone who may or may not have been the actual perpetrator.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This is why the saying “sometimes it’s better to be a good witness” exists.

This has bad decision written all over it regardless of the legal outcome. These two men would have been best suited to follow and report to police where he went. If you lose him, you lose him. Approaching is just a terrible idea.

Obviously different story if you just witnessed something violent or major crime occur.

 

[JakeM]

I’ll go back and watch video.

Regardless, thus far I’ve seen:

There was surveillance video of someone trespassing several times at a construction site

These two guys think he might be the suspect

They arm themselves, follow him, confront him armed. Fight ensues, dude is dead.

Still gonna be a very hard road for them to prove why they were within their rights to approach and detain someone who may or may not have been the actual perpetrator.

I know I can see it from both sides. If two dudes one with a long gun I can see yell at me to stop I don’t know what I would do depending on the Situation. Now it all changes if he is the dude and they Id him on the camera and one being ex Leo they probably didn’t really think it would turn out like that. And it changes again in their favor when he runs all the way around the truck to get to the guy even though the guys gun was pointed at the ground in a non violent manner, running up on those two my first thought would be they where shooting a snake.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I know I can see it from both sides. If two dudes one with a long gun I can see yell at me to stop I don’t know what I would do depending on the Situation. Now it all changes if he is the dude and they Id him on the camera and one being ex Leo they probably didn’t really think it would turn out like that. And it changes again in their favor when he runs all the way around the truck to get to the guy even though the guys gun was pointed at the ground in a non violent manner, running up on those two my first thought would be they where shooting a snake.

Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. Say they knew he was absolutely the guy who was on surveillance trespassing on a construction property. Unless there was some sort of theft amounting to a felony, or unless there’s a felony I haven’t seen (very possible), since it’s not inhabited, it’s still likely a misdemeanor.

Approaching a misdemeanor suspect without any LE authority, while armed......just terrible idea all the way around.

Best case scenario is what......you got the guy snooping around a construction site?

 

[Dthomas3523]

This is a good way to look at it:

 

[JakeM]

That’s why they tried to stop him for the cops. So they could figure this thing out. They should have just followed him giving the 911 operator updates.

 

[Zip Detmer]

Better audio...

Audio: 911 call captures moments leading up to Ahmaud Arbery killing | Daily Mail Online

Calls were placed to a non-emergency police number just before Ahmaud Arbery was fatally shot by Gregory and Travis McMichael in Brunswick, Georgia.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RTH1800]

D

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here’s the actual wording for citizen’s arrest in Ga.

Also, they will have to answer these questions:

How do you know this person committed a crime? And it has to be probable cause. A police officer can detain with reasonable suspicion, but a civilian cannot. They cannot perform brief investigative detentions. So it’s probable cause or nothing. No “well he might have been.”

Was the crime a felony? It looks like it was misdemeanor criminal trespassing. So, once he tries to flee, if it’s not a felony, you can’t do anything else. This law is to keep what appears to happen, from happening. They approach for a misdemeanor and end up taking action that would be reserved for a more serious crime.

I’d say these guys are probably up shit creek unless they have a better story than what they have told/what’s been released.

The big time key here is *felony offense* when trying to escape. If there isn’t some sort of probable cause of a felony, all bets are off and they are fucked beyond fucked.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That being said, if they can show they reasonably believed this person probably just committed or was about to commit a felony crime......if they can show any doubt....then they are not guilty.

 

[fdkay]

That being said, if they can show they reasonably believed this person probably just committed or was about to commit a felony crime......if they can show any doubt....then they are not guilty.

Statute doesn't say belived. It says witnessed or direct knowledge. Very high bar.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Statute doesn't say belived. It says witnessed or direct knowledge. Very high bar.

It says probable cause at the end when concerning a felony.

This is going to be interpreted like a lot of statutes, misdemeanor needs to have happened in front of them or have some extremely convincing knowledge.

Felony is probable cause and doesn’t need to be committed in front of them or direct knowledge.

 

[fdkay]

It says probable cause at the end.

If the offense is a felony. Right now, it appears to be a misdemeanor criminal trespass.