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The Next Trayvon Martin Case?
- Thread starter Arc Light
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This doesn't look good for the defendants. The sister of the younger McMichael, took a photo of the deceased Mr. Arbery and posted it on Snapchat.
That was really bad taste in the court of public opinion. It also makes her a material witness as she "heard the commotion." The prosecution will be able to submit those photos as evidence. It's true they can always use the official crime scene photos but by using the sister's pictures they will be able to plant a seed in the Jury's mind that the entire McMichael family are a bunch of ghouls.
The prosecution won't have to say that. All they have to do is put her on the witness stand and ask her some objective questions and submit the photos as evidence.
Buried in the article is her statements about the McMichaels accepting her non-white boyfriends. So hopefully, the defense can use her to show the Jury that the Defendants are not racists.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/837071/sister-ahmaud-arbery-killer-picture-dead-body-snapchat/
That was really bad taste in the court of public opinion. It also makes her a material witness as she "heard the commotion." The prosecution will be able to submit those photos as evidence. It's true they can always use the official crime scene photos but by using the sister's pictures they will be able to plant a seed in the Jury's mind that the entire McMichael family are a bunch of ghouls.
The prosecution won't have to say that. All they have to do is put her on the witness stand and ask her some objective questions and submit the photos as evidence.
Buried in the article is her statements about the McMichaels accepting her non-white boyfriends. So hopefully, the defense can use her to show the Jury that the Defendants are not racists.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/837071/sister-ahmaud-arbery-killer-picture-dead-body-snapchat/
Pleading the 5th is the absolute worst thing for this case.
Prosecutors will show they knew the house was completely under construction and argue they knew it wasn’t a felony (especially with the father’s prior LE).
Prosecutor will also argue they had prior knowledge of multiple individuals in that property over the course of several months. So at the very very best they just knew he fit a description (reasonable suspicion and not enough).
The only chance these guys have is to explain themselves.
Not to mention, jury will have a chance of thinking these men aren’t sure enough of their actions to speak up. While legally they aren’t allowed to take that into consideration as its their right to plead the 5th......humans are humans.
Prosecuting attorney just has to mention it, defense attorneys objects and jury is instructed to not take that into account. But seed is planted.
Not to mention, this isn’t a standard self defense situation. These two attempted to detain/arrest someone.
If they articulated their PC in the initial police report and its good enough, defense attorney may let that speak for itself. If it just says “we saw him running and tried to stop him,” they are absolutely going to have to get their articulates facts out in the open somehow.
Prosecuting attorney just has to mention it, defense attorneys objects and jury is instructed to not take that into account. But seed is planted.
Not to mention, this isn’t a standard self defense situation. These two attempted to detain/arrest someone.
If they articulated their PC in the initial police report and its good enough, defense attorney may let that speak for itself. If it just says “we saw him running and tried to stop him,” they are absolutely going to have to get their articulates facts out in the open somehow.
@Dthomas3523, those are all good points. Does Georgia require the defendants to prove their assertion of self-defense or is the burden of proof placed on the prosecution?
That affects the way both parties approach the case.
That affects the way both parties approach the case.
The photo was taken from approx. this spot: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.123...4!1sZXDJZW7jyuqzMVbC-JRqCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Right on the corner where my previous map put the McMichael's Truck.
Now..... She "heard the commotion" so that means her home is Very Near the corner.
It's human nature to approach from "Your side" and you wouldn't circle the scene to take a photo. That places her residence on the South/East side of Satilla, and very near the intersection.
Right on the corner where my previous map put the McMichael's Truck.
Now..... She "heard the commotion" so that means her home is Very Near the corner.
It's human nature to approach from "Your side" and you wouldn't circle the scene to take a photo. That places her residence on the South/East side of Satilla, and very near the intersection.
That I don’t know. I’d imagine it’s on the state, as they didn’t arrest them the first go around.
Most folks posting seem convinced facts are going to be relevant to the outcome of this case.
I think it will be decided by politics and emotions.
Also practicality. If the fear is massive riots and cities burning these guys are likely to get thrown under the bus.
I think it will be decided by politics and emotions.
Also practicality. If the fear is massive riots and cities burning these guys are likely to get thrown under the bus.
Either way, public won’t be happy. They go free, people lose their shit without being neutral and looking at the facts.
They go to jail and those same people just point out that it took them two months to arrest them.
And for the two accused, they either go to prison or they have to move away and basically hide for quite a while. Regardless of the legality, they made a fairly poor decision and whatever the outcome, their lives will not be the same.
They go to jail and those same people just point out that it took them two months to arrest them.
And for the two accused, they either go to prison or they have to move away and basically hide for quite a while. Regardless of the legality, they made a fairly poor decision and whatever the outcome, their lives will not be the same.
Exactly. He was a hot-head and the police body-cam from 2017 showed that. He may have lived if he had put his hands up or run the other direction.
That same body-cam video may offer us a peak into his mindset as well.
Because he had run-ins with the police prior to the shooting he may have thought that they would take him away for good. Having been arrested before he probably didn't want to go that way again. So in his mind, the best way out of an arrest is fight the guy with a gun. It's still a foolish move.
To play devil’s advocate a bit, none of the videos that are likely him in the house show him taking or damaging anything.
His state of mind probably wasn’t expecting a truck with armed men running up on him for walking into a property under construction.
They are seeing who they believe to be a criminal.
He is seeing what he believes is two armed men trying to harm him.
What would any of us do if say, you jaywalked. You know it’s wrong, but you also know it’s something trivial. And two people run up on you like this? Do you put your hands up and do what they say?
I’m in no way saying he wasn’t doing shit he shouldn’t be doing. Just attempting to put myself in his shoes.
These situations make me think of the below pic. Each party sees/interpreted something completely different and neither knows the whole story. Unfortunately this time, someone died.
I still come down on the “Don’t tug the two row” side.
I cannot see any outcome other than being shot at contact range by a shotgun which I find most distasteful.
I might stop, I might run away, might evade behind truck or tree, might wait for better chance at defense. Just not grabbing a gun pointed at me.
I cannot see any outcome other than being shot at contact range by a shotgun which I find most distasteful.
I might stop, I might run away, might evade behind truck or tree, might wait for better chance at defense. Just not grabbing a gun pointed at me.
Unfortunately the video is panned away on almost the most important part, the initial physical encounter between the two.
This is a large reason why LEO’s typically don’t go hands on with a weapon out when solo unless subject is prone out (even then you holster once in arm’s reach). You introduce a gun into what is currently not a gun fight. Almost assuredly turns into a fight for a gun now.
Mistake getting that close to him with weapon out, and mistake trying to take the shotgun from him.
This is a large reason why LEO’s typically don’t go hands on with a weapon out when solo unless subject is prone out (even then you holster once in arm’s reach). You introduce a gun into what is currently not a gun fight. Almost assuredly turns into a fight for a gun now.
Mistake getting that close to him with weapon out, and mistake trying to take the shotgun from him.
Fuck,you should send that resume to *****
I heard the Gaga needs help.
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No disagreement. This is going to be a very interesting and likely very technical trial forthcoming should it get to that stage.
That can't be him! He doesn't look like his high school yearbook photo. It must be a different Ahmed Arbery!
If he thought it would conceal his identity it wasn't a good idea.
Officer: Can you tell us what the suspect looked like?
Witness: He's the only tall black guy running around here with a winter coat on with a fur lined hood.
Why is it in multiple videos this guy is wearing a full up COAT with no shirt underneath in what appears to be shirt sleeve weather? PeeU.
Granted, none of the previous arrests may be used as evidence for this particular case (my "honorary" law degree at work...lol); but he definitely is not as clean as the press makes him out to be...like another case I can recall in a similar area of the country.
Granted, none of the previous arrests may be used as evidence for this particular case (my "honorary" law degree at work...lol); but he definitely is not as clean as the press makes him out to be...like another case I can recall in a similar area of the country.
Great minds...... I must have been typing when you made the same comment - now that is funny!August 1st in Georgia!
Looks like the local PD might have been distracted by some other stuff going on at this same time:
www.statesboroherald.com
Glynn County police chief, 3 ex-officers charged as scandal grows
BRUNSWICK – The police chief and three former high-ranking officers in a coastal Georgia county have been indicted on charges that they ignored evidence that an officer was consorting with a drug dealer.
www.statesboroherald.com
The Po-Lice are not always above reproach,....shocking!!!
William Roddie Bryan, the man who recorded the deadly February shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia, has been arrested on charges including felony murder, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation announced Thursday night.
That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.
That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.
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Looks like they are also pursuing false imprisonment charges.
That would imply the state’s position is there was either no felony or no probable cause for a felony at the time they saw him leave the property. Making their attempted detention/arrest illegal and false imprisonment.
That black women prosecutor said she wanted a death penalty.
There's a lot of wheels turning now
Source? And is there a reason people are pointing out she’s black?
Kinda hard for people to get irritated about the media exploiting race and then bringing it up. Makes it look like the media is just giving people what they want vs exploiting it.
Once the media and Atlanta Yankees became involved, this is 100% about race.
And all of this would make perfect sense if the dead guy wasn't ..black. some are more equal than others now.
Death penalty for the camera film dude?
If he had just yelled "WORLDSTAR!" during the video he'd have been fine.
If he had just yelled "WORLDSTAR!" during the video he'd have been fine.
I expect when he gets inside, the boys with the mountain tats well tune his ass up, quite well. I doubt he makes it long inside,....especially with outside funding,...
As of right now, the story is heading in the direction of the moment captured on video was the 2nd or 3rd time they attempted to subdue him. The reason the person taking the video was arrested was because he told police he tried to cut him off with his vehicle as well.
You can only run away so much until you decide to give up or fight.
Not to mention nothing in your post has anything to do with the legality of it. Was us a smart move to try to take the shotgun? Possibly not. Was it legal? Well, that depends on the outcome of the case.
Same situation with the two accused, was it smart to go chasing after him? Possibly not. Was it legal? That remains to be seen as well.
Was it smart for Zimmerman to follow on foot. Probably not. Was it legal? Yes it was.
There’s a *huge* difference between what’s smart and what’s legal/a right. Open carry is legal in places, but it’s typically not a good idea to show the criminal who to shoot first. The list goes on and on.
This isn’t a case about what was or wasn’t a good idea.
It sounds like we're saying the same thing but in a different way.
Otherwise, my main point is that the media is portraying Mr. Arbery as a nice-guy-innocent-as-the-driven-snow-clean-cut-all-american-jogger. He was not. The picture that I get of him was that he was a thief and a hot-head.
He may have been within his legal rights to defend himself or maybe not. Even if his last actions were legal, it was extremely stupid. His mindset was revealed in the police body-cam videos of 2017. What I saw of him in that video was someone who was going to run his mouth, act intimidating and try to bully a cop to keep him from doing his job.
That's precisely the attitude that got him killed.
Why don't we see this more on the leftist news stations? That sure looks like a racist black punk beating up a poor old white man. Where's the outrage?
What about these racist cunts? They didn't help and laughed as he was dying. Where is the outrage from the leftist assholes in the leftist media?
What about these racist cunts? They didn't help and laughed as he was dying. Where is the outrage from the leftist assholes in the leftist media?
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So I'm not gonna wade into the discussion much further than this, but here's something to chew on... and my tin foil hat has been set aside...
My GUESS is that the MSM has the entire video, but it doesn't stoke the fire, so they're chopping off the part that makes it decisive.
If you've noticed, one day they'll show a body cam video of the deceased in different positions of possible wrongdoing, and the next will be of the opposing side's situation. Next will be discrediting the LE agency (whether valid or invalid, it's not really relevant to my point and I don't have an opinion there).
All of this keeps everyone on every side interested in the story.
Then you look at the public document sent from the DA to the LE agency and have to see they were stonewalled when they obviously wanted to charge the accused.
Any DA in a Ga. County can breathe life into or kill any warrant within a short conversation in the courtroom. They most likely knew better than to present it if their chief prosecutor isn't on board. I dont know about other states, but this is for shit sure in Georgia.
After the media outrage began, they assigned the GBI and a "special" prosecutor, and regardless of who she is or what she looks like, my bet is she didn't want to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole regardless of the evidence. But she was probably forced. For an elected official, screw this up on her end and its career suicide. Especially in a county that's as divided as Cobb.
If this turns out like I suspect, she made the smart play for her career and her career alone. Charge everyone involved with everything but the kitchen sink and let the jury be the bad guys in the end if it comes to that. Either way, the onus is off of the GBI and her as far as public opinionis concerned.
Whether he was a saint or a career criminal isn't really relevant when it comes to the short time surrounding the end of his life. That's obviously the media trying to capture an audience. This trial won't be able to have anything to do with his history outside of character assasination. The video that we've all seen doesn't look good, but they rarely ever do until it's been seen in it's entirety and any other evidence is considered.
I look forward to seeing all the evidence and I'll not make any judgement until that time.
My GUESS is that the MSM has the entire video, but it doesn't stoke the fire, so they're chopping off the part that makes it decisive.
If you've noticed, one day they'll show a body cam video of the deceased in different positions of possible wrongdoing, and the next will be of the opposing side's situation. Next will be discrediting the LE agency (whether valid or invalid, it's not really relevant to my point and I don't have an opinion there).
All of this keeps everyone on every side interested in the story.
Then you look at the public document sent from the DA to the LE agency and have to see they were stonewalled when they obviously wanted to charge the accused.
Any DA in a Ga. County can breathe life into or kill any warrant within a short conversation in the courtroom. They most likely knew better than to present it if their chief prosecutor isn't on board. I dont know about other states, but this is for shit sure in Georgia.
After the media outrage began, they assigned the GBI and a "special" prosecutor, and regardless of who she is or what she looks like, my bet is she didn't want to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole regardless of the evidence. But she was probably forced. For an elected official, screw this up on her end and its career suicide. Especially in a county that's as divided as Cobb.
If this turns out like I suspect, she made the smart play for her career and her career alone. Charge everyone involved with everything but the kitchen sink and let the jury be the bad guys in the end if it comes to that. Either way, the onus is off of the GBI and her as far as public opinionis concerned.
Whether he was a saint or a career criminal isn't really relevant when it comes to the short time surrounding the end of his life. That's obviously the media trying to capture an audience. This trial won't be able to have anything to do with his history outside of character assasination. The video that we've all seen doesn't look good, but they rarely ever do until it's been seen in it's entirety and any other evidence is considered.
I look forward to seeing all the evidence and I'll not make any judgement until that time.
I think the next trayvon is here in Indy. See Sean Reed.
Dishonorably discharged soldier who filmed his own suicide by cop
Dishonorably discharged soldier who filmed his own suicide by cop
That’s a good assessment. Remember that it doesn’t take much to indict Even a ham sandwich.
They also have to get past a grand jury before a full trial.
Violence sells newspapers and gets news networks advertising dollars. If there was complete racial harmony in this country that would hurt the ability of the MSM to make money.
Headlines that say “Whites and Blacks Live in Harmony,” don’t sell like “Atlanta Has Not Burned Like This in 156 Years.”
18 years running, I've never had a case no billed by a grand jury. 9 times out of 10, they don't even ask questions. I'm a detailed guy, but I won't even put that credit toward myself. The only questions I've ever answered when presenting a case was either for a brand new grand jury or someone that had an overt bias in one direction or another. I've never understood why they don't ask more questions.
In a situation like this, everyone's motivation is so blatantly obvious, its sickening to me. It can't just be about the facts and it's an abomination of the justice system that I desperately want to have faith in.
The document that the DA produced has some compelling points, but given his relationship to the accused, I honestly dont know how to take it. That's why I'm trying to wait to see the evidence in its entirety before I form an opinion. I just see a slant from every possible angle.
It's gonna be almost impossible to make a case for 1st degree homicide, beyond reasonable doubt, from what I've seen. The premeditation just isnt there because they couldn't have known he was gonna come back, if it was actually him that was there before. But that's the charge the angry masses wanted to see and nothing else will suffice.
And the bigger travesty is that even though the legal system likely caved to public opinion and brought that charge, if the jury doesn't return a guilty verdict, it'll most likely be like the summer of 65 all over again.
It's not actual justice they want. It's their perverted version of justice. And by they, all I mean is those with an agenda that they profit from. Which, much like a child, means they'll pitch a fit if things don't go their way.
Right, wrong or indifferent, this is a tragedy. Whether saint of sinner, a young man lost his life and the other parties (right or wrong) have to live with the taking of a life, as well as the upside down turn their lives and the lives of their families are taking, regardless of the outcome. By this, I mean look at the lives of Darren Wilson and family. He was legally exonerated, but they'll live in hiding for the rest of their lives. Where's the justice in that?
I'll give it this though: anyone that's been through an academy in Ga has had the case law of Tennessee vs. Garner drilled into their heads from the first week and again and again throughout their career. It's hard for me to imagine that even with some of the mouth breathers I've seen come down the line over the years, that they'd present a weapon without some kind of circumstance that at least half-ass justified it. There's always an exception to the rule, but it's just difficult to ration it.
I've grown up, lived my life and spent more of this life than not, in law enforcement at this point, in the South. And I'm the third generation in my family to do it. I've seen some real racism in my life, career included. It exists, no doubt. Not as much as some would like to believe, but it's still alive. But the people that claim racism before having factual information, or the ones that use it as leverage, just cheapen the meaning of the term to the point that it has no value any more. That's the biggest tragedy. Anymore, an actual victim of it just gets passed off as the boy who cries wolf. The whole thing is just fucking awful.
I don't want to be prosecuted for murder.
Zimmerman tried to stop a burglary: prosecuted for murder.
The Georgia guys tried to stop a burglar: prosecuted for murder.
Let my neighbors be on notice: You are on your own to stop burglaries because I don't want to get prosecuted. For anything.
The issue is you need to have a pretty good understanding of the laws you are attempting to enforce. As well as the authority you are attempting to exert.
Law Enforcement is a profession just like anything else. If you have no mechanical knowledge and you see someone on the side of the road, you wouldn’t try to fix the car, you’d call someone within that profession to take care of it.
If you don’t have a very good grasp on the law, you call the people that *should* know. Obviously just like any profession, there are bad, average, and great employees.
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