Night Vision The Official: Steiner C35 Thermal Clip-on Review and User Thread!

[TheHorta]

So, Charles / HebrewHammer sent me a Steiner C35 to get my thoughts on it. I haven’t bought one (yet), but with a full LIST price of just $4K for a legit 640px dedicated thermal clip-on with HD display, I’m gonna grab one anyway (be sure to have mercy on a poor ol’ Horta, Mr Hammer).

I’m a big fan of getting the negatives out of the way first, so I’m going to beat the C35 up a little before going into what it does very well, which is what it was designed to do.

First, the C35 is a fricking Brick House! At over 35-ounces with battery installed, it’s the heaviest consumer thermal I own. It’s big and bulky compared to its competitors as well. I don’t own any Yoter/Bering stuff, so I can’t compare with their units.

Second, the battery is a funky 18650 “B”. You can NOT use a standard 18650. It won’t fit. One is included, but you’ll need to get more or — use an external Anker-style USB pack.

The rail mount is a monster and the QD throw lever is a boat paddle.

I’ve looked all over the unit itself, the packaging, and the documentation and I can’t, for the life of me, figure out where this thing is made. Someone help me out here… WHERE IS THIS DAMN THING MADE?!

I figured it was from Chynah and the core was likely iRay, but I’m not so sure. The unit has the funky FLIR Boson color pallettes, so there is a slim chance it may NOT be Chinesium (fingers crossed).

More (good news) to come shortly. Dinner time.

Initial presentation:

The Razor 1-10x is in a 1.57” Scalarworks mount, so the C35 looks to be designed for a 1.5” optic.

“The Crew” of comparison thermals:

The Testbed — Geissele SOCOM SD, Razor G3 1-10x in Scalarworks, other meaningless trinkets. Will be testing the C35 for POI shift on multiple guns/optics pairs.

Pre-fight contender weigh-in: First, the Heavyweight! Steiner C35:

Next, the longtime Reigning World Clip-on Champion! BAE/Oasys/Trijicon UTC-Xii:

The reigning Middleweight Champion of the World! BAE/Oasys/Trijicon UTM-x:

The recently-dethroned lightweight World Champion! BAE/Oasys/Trijicon SkeetIR-x!

The NEW Lightweight Champion of the World! Pixels on Target (PoT) Voodoo-S!

The Slant-eyed Lightweight Contender from Chynah! The iRay USA RH-25 Choodoo:

Ze German contender from ze Fatherland, the Andres Industries TigIR-6M!

And last but not least, a lightweight contender from Planet Unobtanium! The BAE FWS-i:

ALL units were weighed in full USABLE form — meaning batteries were installed and their rail mounts were on.

 

[TxWelder35]

Wow a clip on thermal that looks obtainable for us poors. Hope it’s not from chyna, that’s a deal breaker

 

[Ravenworks]

Nice

 

[The King]

Depleted Uranium housing?

 

[TheHorta]

Depleted Uranium housing?

I’m thinking so. Have to take my radiation dosimeter to it to confirm.

If weight is an indicator of ruggedness, this thing should withstand a direct hit from a JDAM.

 

[TheHorta]

After just a few minutes of very preliminary comparison, the C35 makes a better clip-on than the RH25 Choodoo. Overall, if I had to choose between the C35 ($4K) and the RH25 ($6K) — forgetting the Chynah DNA for a moment — I’d probably still take the Choodoo, unless I *only* intended to use it as a dedicated clipon, then the C35 performs better at higher optical magnifications.

The Choodoo dies at 6x. The C35 is fully usable at 10x on the Vortex.

With that said, I couldn’t help but compare the C35 with the UTC-Xii.

No comparison. The UTC is still the King.

Of course… $4K vs. >$20K…

It’ll be a couple of days before I can do some reliable POI-shift testing. I’m hopeful the C35 can be run on multiple rifles/optics without manual collimation. It is a dedicated clip-on with FIXED eyepiece! (Woohoo!!!)

**IF** this thing is optically / prism collimated, it’ll be a HUGE win and the first option for The Poors at this price point.

That will go a LONG way toward making it a great buy instead of just a good buy. It also has some nifty features — like all the WiFi stuff everyone expects, image and video storage, etc as well as some very advanced image tools, including “tracking” and “detection” where it has some AI magic that makes it track living things.

Not sure how well that works yet. May be a gimmick or may be legit / useful. We’ll see.

 

[jwramp]

I wanna know WHATS IN THE BOX?? If they had to hang the battery housing off the side of the unit, what’s taking up so much space inside? Got an X-ray machine on the compound?

 

[TheHorta]

 

[GreenMushroom]

Interesting to see the all up weights on some of those devices. The rh25 in particular is way chunkier than I thought. As a reference my yoter is 19.6 with batteries and adm mount.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

It seems more appropriate to use MCNP to model the housing rather than Solidworks. Also with the rebate from Steiner it's $3750 to your door.

 

[The King]

This is the theme song for this optic.

 

[WhereNow&How]

First, the C35 is a fricking Brick House! At over 35-ounces with battery installed, it’s the heaviest consumer thermal I own. It’s big and bulky compared to its competitors as well.

Well at least it ought to be tough.

 

[Twistid]

Well at least it ought to be tough.

I imagine it should be for bumps and such but it's only rated to 308 semi auto, less than others such as the Rico.

 

[brettb614]

It doesn't matter, horta's gonna test it on a howitzer anyway...

 

[Conqueror]

@TheHorta it appears the C35 has a manual focus on the front objective?

 

[The King]

It doesn't matter, horta's gonna test it on a howitzer anyway...

I have a 10lb .50bmg with a suppressor that magnifies recoil even more. I let people I don’t want to shoot with me anymore touch off a round.

Nobody’s been killed. Yet.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I have a 10lb .50bmg with a suppressor that magnifies recoil even more. I let people I don’t want to shoot with me anymore touch off a round.

Nobody’s been killed. Yet.

Let me guess. She's named "Big Bertha"

 

[The King]

Let me guess. She's named "Big Bertha"

I let the ER docs name the thing. They call it “Blunt Force Sternum Trauma, Penetrating...”

 

[TheHorta]

@TheHorta it appears the C35 has a manual focus on the front objective?

Yes, manual focus (thankffully).

 

[DownRangeThermal]

1. @$3999 you don't have to be a scientific rocket to know where it's made. Can't have it both ways guys.
2. For true unity/collimation see #1. On a positive note though it has user screen shift ability with 3 profiles to save 3 screen positions. ...so if you don't mind noting profile for 3 different rifles that's a win.

It offers a lot of bang for 4k but you gotta keep things realistic.

 

[TheHorta]

1. @$3999 you don't have to be a scientific rocket to know where it's made. Can't have it both ways guys.
2. For true unity/collimation see #1. On a positive note though it has user screen shift ability with 3 profiles to save 3 screen positions. ...so if you don't mind noting profile for 3 different rifles that's a win.

It offers a lot of bang for 4k but you gotta keep things realistic.

Ha!

Prism collimated, 20x optical support, 12-ounces, $4000.

Is that axing too much?

 

[tangloppen]

So, I guess most people wanna hear more about penis enhancement (FWS), so don’t let us down, show us what you are swinging!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Prism collimated, 20x optical support, 12-ounces, $4000.

I'm staying Dazed & Confused.

For long time wisdom said Military Grade Clip On Thermal was prism collimated.

Current wisdom says collimated Thermal does not use prism.

DRT shared some very interesting and resourceful information and made a challenge for anyone to show a prism collimated thermal. I have not seen any response to that challenge.

So why are we still referencing a "prism collimated thermal" if they do not exist.

Please enlighten me more Horta. You are a guru also in that field.

Help out the dazed and confused.

 

[TheHorta]

So, I guess most people wanna hear more about penis enhancement (FWS), so don’t let us down, show us what you are swinging!

 

[TheHorta]

I'm staying Dazed & Confused.

For long time wisdom said Military Grade Clip On Thermal was prism collimated.

Current wisdom says collimated Thermal does not use prism.

DRT shared some very interesting and resourceful information and made a challenge for anyone to show a prism collimated thermal. I have not seen any response to that challenge.

So why are we still referencing a "prism collimated thermal" if they do not exist.

Please enlighten me more Horta. You are a guru also in that field.

Help out the dazed and confused.

I don’t think it needs to have a prism built into the unit, just that Magic Prisms are used somewhere in the factory collimation process.

Or not. I’m still confused.

 

[TheHorta]

Haven’t had the chance to put rounds through it yet (tomorrow or Wednesday). It does look like there’s little to no POI shift while removing and replacing the unit in front of the scope. 10x seems to be absolute maximum optical zoom, but it’s very happy at 8x.

 

[WhereNow&How]

So, I guess most people wanna hear more about penis enhancement (FWS), so don’t let us down, show us what you are swinging!

For as big and powerful as an adult male lion is, he has some small nuts. Probably evolutions way of him keeping them given the extremely hostile and violent circumstances he lives in.

 

[Twistid]

I was looking at the spec sheets for both the c35 and s35 and they look nearly identical sans the c35 has a slightly lower res screen (800x600), takes only a single battery and s35 has reticles, but they both still has the same sensor, frame rate, 1-8 mag, etc.

I know this is commonly asked but is there a significant benefit over the s35 vs c35 considering they seem to have the same exact guts? For example in LPVO usage which it seems like the c35 is geared towards is there a big reason why one would want one over the over? I suppose in my mind I see the s35 as almost a replacement for an lpvo since it can be used all weather whereas the c35 is an enhancement to be used on an lpvo. Apologies if this is a dumb question, dipping my feet into thermals and looking for something to stick on my DDC super duty (exactly what you're using as well ). My S35 will be replacing the Delta Stryker in this instance and I'll probably throw some kind of laser (D2 or A3) for use with NV as well.

 

[db2000]

It’s been requested by others in a couple threads without an answer so I’ll throw it here…

Anyone have a comparison to the Yoter C?

What’s advertised: 35 oz vs 20, 2 yr warranty vs 5, has WiFi and video 16GB vs none, FOV 12.5 x 9.4 vs 8.8 x 7.0 degrees, 800 x 600 OLED vs 1024 x 768 OLED, 1-8x vs 1,2,4x digital zoom, 18s vs 5s boot up time to list a few.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I'll do one in a week when I'm home.

 

[jwramp]

It’s been requested by others in a couple threads without an answer so I’ll throw it here…

Anyone have a comparison to the Yoter C?

What’s advertised: 35 oz vs 20, 2 yr warranty vs 5, has WiFi and video 16GB vs none, FOV 12.5 x 9.4 m vs 8.8 x 7.0 degrees (would appreciate a conversion to degrees on the C35 if someone knows), 800 x 600 OLED vs 1024 x 768 OLED, 1-8x vs 1,2,4x digital zoom, 18s vs 5s boot up time to list a few.

A few of your numbers aren’t quite right there, but the 12.5 is a degrees value. Steiner marketing materials are a bit confused on that.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Anyone know of a good rail system to test clip ons with room for a scope so I don't have to use my rifle, my neighbors don't appreciate me aiming my unloaded AR-10 at my cat in the front yard.

 

[jwramp]

Anyone know of a good rail system to test clip ons with room for a scope so I don't have to use my rifle, my neighbors don't appreciate me aiming my unloaded AR-10 at my cat in the front yard.

Big ol lengths of pic rail are pretty easy to find and drill holes for tripod mounts or arca adapters. Or just put a block of metal on the bottom that you can clamp into a vise.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I was looking at the spec sheets for both the c35 and s35 and they look nearly identical sans the c35 has a slightly lower res screen (800x600), takes only a single battery and s35 has reticles, but they both still has the same sensor, frame rate, 1-8 mag, etc.

I know this is commonly asked but is there a significant benefit over the s35 vs c35 considering they seem to have the same exact guts? For example in LPVO usage which it seems like the c35 is geared towards is there a big reason why one would want one over the over? I suppose in my mind I see the s35 as almost a replacement for an lpvo since it can be used all weather whereas the c35 is an enhancement to be used on an lpvo. Apologies if this is a dumb question, dipping my feet into thermals and looking for something to stick on my DDC super duty (exactly what you're using as well ). My S35 will be replacing the Delta Stryker in this instance and I'll probably throw some kind of laser (D2 or A3) for use with NV as well.

Imo clip ons are kind of a niche item and most people are better served with a dedicated scope especially if it's your only device. It's the last piece you get vrs the 1st if you are getting multiple devices. For me the benefit is eye relief and cheekweld especially when shooting prone at longer ranges. Not being much of a long range shooter to begin with it was worth the $ to me to just get something that clipped on in front of my day scope vrs reinventing the wheel for nighttime.

There are a lot of downsides the biggest being the weight and it trashes the balance of your rifle. The controls are also awkward to operate offhand. It's doable with some practice but much easier on a dedicated scope. These downsides can be mitigated with a smaller optic like an acog or the new chicom micro prisms but at that point you're basically at the functionality of a dedicated scope with some extra weight and complexity thrown in.

Clip-ons seem to be the latest hottness and that will probably end up with a lot of folks getting one because it looks cool and being disappointed in what they end up with. I'm hoping this will result in me picking up my 2nd yoter used at round 3.5k

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

@GreenMushroom see yourself out

 

[db2000]

A few of your numbers aren’t quite right there, but the 12.5 is a degrees value. Steiner marketing materials are a bit confused on that.

View attachment 7870733

If you’d elaborate on which numbers are off I’d prefer to correct them. Thanks

 

[jwramp]

If you’d elaborate on which numbers are off I’d prefer to correct them. Thanks

Mostly just the lens sizes and the FoV. Yoter isn’t a 20mm piece of germanium.

 

[db2000]

Mostly just the lens sizes and the FoV. Yoter isn’t a 20mm piece of germanium.

That unit of measurement after those numbers is oz. It’s definitely a 50mm objective, which I didn’t list.

 

[Twistid]

Imo clip ons are kind of a niche item and most people are better served with a dedicated scope especially if it's your only device. It's the last piece you get vrs the 1st if you are getting multiple devices. For me the benefit is eye relief and cheekweld especially when shooting prone at longer ranges. Not being much of a long range shooter to begin with it was worth the $ to me to just get something that clipped on in front of my day scope vrs reinventing the wheel for nighttime.

There are a lot of downsides the biggest being the weight and it trashes the balance of your rifle. The controls are also awkward to operate offhand. It's doable with some practice but much easier on a dedicated scope. These downsides can be mitigated with a smaller optic like an acog or the new chicom micro prisms but at that point you're basically at the functionality of a dedicated scope with some extra weight and complexity thrown in.

Clip-ons seem to be the latest hottness and that will probably end up with a lot of folks getting one because it looks cool and being disappointed in what they end up with. I'm hoping this will result in me picking up my 2nd yoter used at round 3.5k

Thanks very much for the break down, that all makes sense to me.

 

[jwramp]

That unit of measurement after those numbers is oz. It’s definitely a 50mm objective, which I didn’t list.

LOL my bad then - not trying to call you out or anything. The FoV confusion from Steiner's sheets came up elsewhere, so couldn't remember whether it had been hashed out here or not.

 

[The King]

And some steiner sheets say 1024 display. Which probably means it shows an 800x600 on a 1024 to allow for shift.

 

[stefan73]

Would love to see what the image looks like.

 

[Twistid]

12.5x9.4 fov for the steiner

 

[WhereNow&How]

Imo clip ons are kind of a niche item and most people are better served with a dedicated scope especially if it's your only device. It's the last piece you get vrs the 1st if you are getting multiple devices. For me the benefit is eye relief and cheekweld especially when shooting prone at longer ranges. Not being much of a long range shooter to begin with it was worth the $ to me to just get something that clipped on in front of my day scope vrs reinventing the wheel for nighttime.

There are a lot of downsides the biggest being the weight and it trashes the balance of your rifle. The controls are also awkward to operate offhand. It's doable with some practice but much easier on a dedicated scope. These downsides can be mitigated with a smaller optic like an acog or the new chicom micro prisms but at that point you're basically at the functionality of a dedicated scope with some extra weight and complexity thrown in.

Clip-ons seem to be the latest hottness and that will probably end up with a lot of folks getting one because it looks cool and being disappointed in what they end up with. I'm hoping this will result in me picking up my 2nd yoter used at round 3.5k

Lots of truth to what you say here, but it depends on what playing field you may have to play on.

I am sure in the Ukraine currently, good thermal clip-ons are in high demand by all participants.

 

[avidflyer]

Anyone know of a good rail system to test clip ons with room for a scope so I don't have to use my rifle, my neighbors don't appreciate me aiming my unloaded AR-10 at my cat in the front yard.

I made one last week...

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

Imo clip ons are kind of a niche item and most people are better served with a dedicated scope especially if it's your only device. It's the last piece you get vrs the 1st if you are getting multiple devices. For me the benefit is eye relief and cheekweld especially when shooting prone at longer ranges. Not being much of a long range shooter to begin with it was worth the $ to me to just get something that clipped on in front of my day scope vrs reinventing the wheel for nighttime.

There are a lot of downsides the biggest being the weight and it trashes the balance of your rifle. The controls are also awkward to operate offhand. It's doable with some practice but much easier on a dedicated scope. These downsides can be mitigated with a smaller optic like an acog or the new chicom micro prisms but at that point you're basically at the functionality of a dedicated scope with some extra weight and complexity thrown in.

Clip-ons seem to be the latest hottness and that will probably end up with a lot of folks getting one because it looks cool and being disappointed in what they end up with. I'm hoping this will result in me picking up my 2nd yoter used at round 3.5k

I think this is spot-on.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Lots of truth to what you say here, but it depends on what playing field you may have to play on.

I am sure in the Ukraine currently, good thermal clip-ons are in high demand by all participants.

I should probably clarify that I make those comments in regards to the average Joe Blow U S consumer which is what I am. Military guys or most of the posters in this thread know what's what and don't need advice from me.

I like my yoterC and plan to get another but it's not going to be the right choice for everyone and people need to do their homework and understand what they're getting. People just getting into this see all the clip-ons hitting the market right now and think that must be the latest and greatest rather than something that's very good for a specific role. The rh25 looks like a great option because it allows people to test the waters with a device that's good for other uses as well.

A test I'd recommend to people trying to figure this out from behind a computer is to put a lpvo on your rifle. Now put a second lpvo on the rail in front of it. Pretend you need to adjust your focus which will be ahead of the turret on the forward scope. If I'm offhand do I gumby arm it with my control hand or tear a bicep using my support hand. Obviously off a bipod or tripod this isn't an issue but I don't think people that haven't used one understand the limitations.

 

[RobbinsHGray]

Anyone know of a good rail system to test clip ons with room for a scope so I don't have to use my rifle, my neighbors don't appreciate me aiming my unloaded AR-10 at my cat in the front yard.

I was taught the number one rule of gun safety was never point a firearm in a direction where if it went bang it would do any damage. I.e. treat all firearms as if they were loaded. Alec Baldwin I’m thinking of you.

This next part is a joke.

Oh wait it’s a cat no problem.

I love my cat that was a joke.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

He has 9 lives, I'm pretty sure a 7.62 would only subtract two or three.

 

[TheHorta]

It’s an AR-10. It would probably misfire anyway.