"The paleo diet"/ "organic foods"/"metabolic damage"

[308sniper147]

These videos are not meant to offend anyone in any way! Especially the organic food one lol. Be prepared for some extreme language in that one.....
What they are meant to do is to open your eyes to a different thought processes, and to let you realize the SCIENCE behind something. No matter how eloquently someone rights about something and fluffs it up to be the next diet fad it certainly doesn't make it right. Now if you can't stand the thought of eating carbs because you think our ancestors didn't eat them(which is bs, why do we have insulin and many other enzymes in our saliva and stomach to help aid in the digestion of saccharides?). Then more power to you. If you have a diet and it is working for you I'm not telling you to stop I am simply telling you you might be able to eat a little more diversely(speaking about paleo).
And if I can help one person with this thread it will make all of the recourse from the religion that most diets are....

I posted both of these videos in a different thread but I though they were very deserving of their own thread.

Paleo debunking....
Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU - YouTube


Organic foods: PLEASE WATCH WITH EXTREME CAUTION LOL, not for little kids. Although it is freaking hilarious.
Penn & Teller: Bullshit! - Season 7 Episode 6 - Organic Food - YouTube



"Is your diet making you fatter?" Yes seriously, it sound increasingly cliche, but please watch the whole video.
Dr. Layne Norton's background: undergrad in Biochemistry, graduate degree in protein metabolism. Pro natural bodybuilder. Pro natural powerlifter I believe as well.

BioLayne Video Log 23 - Is Your Weight Loss Diet Making You Fatter? - YouTube

 

[Name Enough]

I have been involved with nutrition and health care for the past 28 years. Diet fads have been around for ages from the Duke of Salisbury who claimed the only diet for man was ground beef and you should eat at least a pound and a half a day to Dr. Kellogg who claimed humans should only eat grains. His brother added sugar to the good Doctor's recipe and the good Doctor threw him out. He found the Post Cereal Company.
My mother had a book 60 years ago by Gaylord Hauser entitled "You Are What You Eat" and she swore by it. With a name like Gaylord I am surprised he made it during the fifties. When I debunk the latest diet theory my wife she hears on TV I have to remind her that people pay me good money to hear my opinion on the same. She always has concrete proof the diet works.

The long and short of it is - eat a wide variety of preferably fresh foods. If you want to loose weight consume less calories than you burn. Doesn't matter where those calories come from be it an ice cream sundae or melba toast.
Forget artificial or synthetic vitamins. Try to limit sugar simple carbs includes alcohol) and saturated fats.

My personal opinion is that our current trend to obesity particularly in our youth is due to the consumption of sodas and snacks. If you have kids try to steer them away from the Cokes, potato chips and Cheetos. Like my mom used to say if you are really hungry before dinner then have an apple. If you are not hungry enough to eat an apple then you aren't really hungry.

All that being said we derive great pleasure from eating and I fully understand how easy it is to overindulge. I would like an ice cream sundae right now but since I am having a bourbon I will have to forgo one pleasure for another.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

all things in moderation.... we are an undisciplined overindulgent society who seems to have little use for personal responsibilty especially when it comes to our own health and welfare. we want to let some one tell us what we should be doing or shouldnt be doing. its not damn rocket science. eat as much living unprocessed food as possible and if youre going to eat not so good stuff do it very limited.

 

[sulcop96]

147 THANK YOU! I spent more then 25 years in the research and application of sound nutrition programs (primarily for soldiers/Marines and advanced athletes) and have sifted through the dogma and myth surrounding 100's of diets. What is often missed in everything is that 100 million years of evolution has set up homosapien to thrive and adapt. There are certain perimeters and factors, the individuals natural hormonal cascade, insulin sensitivity and magnitude of secretion etc. but bottom line is all this "tricking" the body or fad stuff does more harm then good. The last several years I have been working primarily with clients that have created metabolic disorders (mostly Leptin and thyroid related) and attempting to bring them back to prior fad dieting baseline. I honestly believe that all the fad diet and no carb crap out there has done as much damage to the American population as trans fats and soda pop.

Ok, rant over....

Sully

 

[sulcop96]

And Layne is a good buddy and we have competed many times in bodybuilding together. He is one of the few bodybuilders I ever met that was not dumb as a rock and just followed everything written on musclemayhem.com or muscle and fiction. His ideas are sound and science based, and P&T was just down right funny!

Sully

 

[308sniper147]

And Layne is a good buddy and we have competed many times in bodybuilding together. He is one of the few bodybuilders I ever met that was not dumb as a rock and just followed everything written on musclemayhem.com or muscle and fiction. His ideas are sound and science based, and P&T was just down right funny!

Sully

I'm glad you enjoyed the videos! I love P&T as well!
That's amazing that you know Dr. Norton. I really want to meet him and just sit down and listen to all that he has to say. I've loved layne ever since I found his "no nonsense peek week tutorial" on bodybuilding.com. It has changed my whole philosophy on my diet and nutrition, and he saved me from all of the other idiots that I though had a clue what they were saying.

Please feel free to PM me anytime to discuss new findings or anything of that nature! I have yet to meet a fitness enthusiast in person that is also into PRS.


Andrew

 

[308sniper147]

147 THANK YOU! I spent more then 25 years in the research and application of sound nutrition programs (primarily for soldiers/Marines and advanced athletes) and have sifted through the dogma and myth surrounding 100's of diets. What is often missed in everything is that 100 million years of evolution has set up homosapien to thrive and adapt. There are certain perimeters and factors, the individuals natural hormonal cascade, insulin sensitivity and magnitude of secretion etc. but bottom line is all this "tricking" the body or fad stuff does more harm then good. The last several years I have been working primarily with clients that have created metabolic disorders (mostly Leptin and thyroid related) and attempting to bring them back to prior fad dieting baseline. I honestly believe that all the fad diet and no carb crap out there has done as much damage to the American population as trans fats and soda pop.

Ok, rant over....

Sully

And in reply to this comment. Don't thank me! Thank people like Layne that instead of putting out literal shit to get their names out, they instead slowly build a reputation on fact based methodical ways of thought. They are the Heros and in my opinion saviors of this industry... I'm just the messenger trying to save more victims.


Andrew

 

[Megahoser]

The first video mostly focused on the meat vs a vegetable diet, but most of the people I know who ascribe to a Paleo-esc diet don't have a problem with either...and even consume the dreaded 'carbs' from time-to-time. The main beef, pardon the pun...I have heard from most of the 'Paleos' I've encountered, has been with ingesting over-processed foods. I do not purport to be any kind of a nutritionist of any kind...with that said and regardless of scientific evidence to the diet's anthropological roots...all the people I know who do live by the 'Paleo/Caveman' diet have lost a ton of weight and do appear to be healthier and more energetic. I guess like any successful diet it really comes down to realizing problem behaviors and learning moderation, eh?

 

[308sniper147]

The first video mostly focused on the meat vs a vegetable diet, but most of the people I know who ascribe to a Paleo-esc diet don't have a problem with either...and even consume the dreaded 'carbs' from time-to-time. The main beef, pardon the pun...I have heard from most of the 'Paleos' I've encountered, has been with ingesting over-processed foods. I do not purport to be any kind of a nutritionist of any kind...with that said and regardless of scientific evidence to the diet's anthropological roots...all the people I know who do live by the 'Paleo/Caveman' diet have lost a ton of weight and do appear to be healthier and more energetic. I guess like any successful diet it really comes down to realizing problem behaviors and learning moderation, eh?

You hit the nail on the head sir. What most people fail to realize is that it doesn't matter if you eat 2000kcals of twinkies or 2000kcals of meat your weight will be exactly the same. Now your body composition will be drastically different but that's beside the point. "Paleo" diet generally consists of the lower kcal foods and such the weight generally comes off. That video as you stated doesn't say that the paleo diet doesn't work(which anything were you are going on a caloric deficiency will work) but rather states that how you are supposed to eat base on our ancestors is essentially false.

And your "paleo" friends must eat more carbs that most because most people that come to me after having been on the diet complain profusely about how exhausted they constantly were on the diet.


Andrew

 

[sulcop96]

I'm glad you enjoyed the videos! I love P&T as well!
That's amazing that you know Dr. Norton. I really want to meet him and just sit down and listen to all that he has to say. I've loved layne ever since I found his "no nonsense peek week tutorial" on bodybuilding.com. It has changed my whole philosophy on my diet and nutrition, and he saved me from all of the other idiots that I though had a clue what they were saying.

Please feel free to PM me anytime to discuss new findings or anything of that nature! I have yet to meet a fitness enthusiast in person that is also into PRS.

Andrew

Andrew,

My email address is [email protected], you or anyone on the hide can email me and I will send you copies of my books. I have them in Adobe format and sell them on my website but no charge for anyone here on the hide.

As for Dr. Norton, lol, he is just good old Layne. I won a bunch of bodybuilding shows and Layne was just a kid when we started chatting and going over things. I have know him from his first teen show and on. I also promote a very large fitness event in MA and he actually flew out in 2005 and entered the event just to support my show. He and his wife, and now growing family, are class acts.

Others of interest to read include Dr. Eric Serrano, Joe Klemczewski, Vince Gironda, Ian King, Charles Poloquin, Fred Hatfield,Chris Aceto (pre steriods), John Berardi and Charles Poliquin
all have good insights into various aspects of nutrition and training. I actually worked with most of the above "back in the day" and took from all of them the information I outline in my book. Feel free to bounce any questions off me.

Sully

 

[pizzamanny]

The videos tend to steer me more towards local foods and organic. Finding healthful choices from industrial is tough. when organic and or local is an option it tends to fall more on the side paleo.

 

[sulcop96]

The first video mostly focused on the meat vs a vegetable diet, but most of the people I know who ascribe to a Paleo-esc diet don't have a problem with either...and even consume the dreaded 'carbs' from time-to-time. The main beef, pardon the pun...I have heard from most of the 'Paleos' I've encountered, has been with ingesting over-processed foods. I do not purport to be any kind of a nutritionist of any kind...with that said and regardless of scientific evidence to the diet's anthropological roots...all the people I know who do live by the 'Paleo/Caveman' diet have lost a ton of weight and do appear to be healthier and more energetic. I guess like any successful diet it really comes down to realizing problem behaviors and learning moderation, eh?

Megahoser, I am a Level I crossfit instructor and have been through a huge amount of training on the paleo eating style. The true paleo simply has a few rules and changes the outdated food pyramid (don't get me going on that BS) and the rules basically increase veggies and cut sugar and trans fats from the diet. Here is what I find when I teach class, 75% of paleo eaters turn the diet into some form of a ketogenic diet avoiding all carbs and fruits. They will also skip a very fundamental stem and only eat 6-8 foods every day. Just the the crossfit workout "broad domains" theory the diet needs to also do the same. You see a caveman HAD to eat over broad domains, meaning he wandered and had to contend with seasons. Sometimes he ate a lot of fish and nuts, other times roots dug from the ground and small game meats and water fowl and still other times lots of fruits as he chased the mammoth herds and then pigged out on red meats. So paleo is not in itself a bad concept but the damage is in the application.

Sully

 

[sulcop96]

And not to change the topic, or perhaps it is part of the topic, the modern food pyramid is not set up for health. It is formatted to increase sales and profitability of certain products, such as dairy. I apologize to any dairy farmers out there, but milk is a poison to the body for about 65% of the world population and along with the peanut causes the most underlying health and performance problems. Andrew, you should start another thread on food and diet myths, there are SO many out there.

Sully

 

[Killswitch Engage]

I really enjoy all the information and knowledge here. I have done the paleo/ low carb and it is fine but I think you are correct that it can be counterproductive if morphed into something else. I don't go no carb or really too much low carb. I do try to eat as much fresh raw food to include greens, nuts, fruits and other veggies. I like to eat the hell out of meat but try to avoid fast food, high processed junk. I don't do crossfit and don't care. I am functionally strong and fit enough to carry out daily life, strenuous tasks, hunt, run, climb, hike, sit on my ass and drink beer once in a while too. I feel the same about the work out stuff as I do diet plans. All in moderation.

 

[308sniper147]

And not to change the topic, or perhaps it is part of the topic, the modern food pyramid is not set up for health. It is formatted to increase sales and profitability of certain products, such as dairy. I apologize to any dairy farmers out there, but milk is a poison to the body for about 65% of the world population and along with the peanut causes the most underlying health and performance problems. Andrew, you should start another thread on food and diet myths, there are SO many out there.

Sully

Sounds like a good idea... But gosh I don't have enough time left in my life at 19 years old to expose all of the stupid myths that float around......

Lol

 

[sulcop96]

Sounds like a good idea... But gosh I don't have enough time left in my life at 19 years old to expose all of the stupid myths that float around......

Lol

I'll give you a BIG one that is costing the members of this forum about 1K$ a year. You DO NOT need any sugar/carb laden gobble-d-gook with your protein/creatine mix post workout. Real science, the guys in the lab coats that don't give one iota about how much of a particular product gets sold, have determined that unless your activity taps so deeply into your glycogen stores the whole simple carb thing will do nothing to increase anabolism or stop catabolism and does zero to increase creatine saturation. The only time it has show to be useful is for activity so intense that it goes beyond the normal training threshold. The FEW tests that show a value were conducted on long distance cycling, Lance Armstrong type, where a high intensity activity was carried out over 4+ hours. But, the supplement companies forget to point out that little tidbit. So unless your in Ranger school or the Tour De France all it is going to do is make you fatter. That is unless your on steroids/insulin and created the false hormonal environment to make it useful. And THAT is what is driving the "real world" results market. Steroids, and more exact, insulin change everything so everyone goes on the internet and reads about the "results" and never asks the question, what else are you on? And trust me folks A LOT of people are on "gear" including many reading this. Not a judgement, just changes how "supplements" work in non users.

Now having been involved in the fitness industry for 30+ years I have seen a marked increase in "fat" gym rats and recreational trainers as well as my brethren in natural bodybuilding. Bodybuilders off season have become FAT! One reason is that they take all the high carb post training drinks and the training never comes anywhere near the threshold required for it to be useful. All that sugar has to go somewhere and if the training did not create the "need" for the sugar spike then it may be restored as bodyfat. Not to get into a biochem lesson but insulin is anabolic and (oversimplified and not really exactly correct but factual) can also cause fat storage. Google "role of insulin" and you can get the drift.

So big money saving myth #1, for 90% of workout nutz, ditch the sugar/protein/creatine post workout drink.

OK Andrew, you throw one out and lets keep this going, lol.

Sully

 

[308sniper147]

I'll give you a BIG one that is costing the members of this forum about 1K$ a year. You DO NOT need any sugar/carb laden gobble-d-gook with your protein/creatine mix post workout. Real science, the guys in the lab coats that don't give one iota about how much of a particular product gets sold, have determined that unless your activity taps so deeply into your glycogen stores the whole simple carb thing will do nothing to increase anabolism or stop catabolism and does zero to increase creatine saturation. The only time it has show to be useful is for activity so intense that it goes beyond the normal training threshold. The FEW tests that show a value were conducted on long distance cycling, Lance Armstrong type, where a high intensity activity was carried out over 4+ hours. But, the supplement companies forget to point out that little tidbit. So unless your in Ranger school or the Tour De France all it is going to do is make you fatter. That is unless your on steroids/insulin and created the false hormonal environment to make it useful. And THAT is what is driving the "real world" results market. Steroids, and more exact, insulin change everything so everyone goes on the internet and reads about the "results" and never asks the question, what else are you on? And trust me folks A LOT of people are on "gear" including many reading this. Not a judgement, just changes how "supplements" work in non users.

Now having been involved in the fitness industry for 30+ years I have seen a marked increase in "fat" gym rats and recreational trainers as well as my brethren in natural bodybuilding. Bodybuilders off season have become FAT! One reason is that they take all the high carb post training drinks and the training never comes anywhere near the threshold required for it to be useful. All that sugar has to go somewhere and if the training did not create the "need" for the sugar spike then it may be restored as bodyfat. Not to get into a biochem lesson but insulin is anabolic and (oversimplified and not really exactly correct but factual) can also cause fat storage. Google "role of insulin" and you can get the drift.

So big money saving myth #1, for 90% of workout nutz, ditch the sugar/protein/creatine post workout drink.

OK Andrew, you throw one out and lets keep this going, lol.

Sully

I started a new thread devoted to just debunking myths
So it wouldn't get lost in this thread.