There is no shortage unless you are poor. I left w my cash and zero primers.
I generally agree: The bureaucracy sections of your re speaks to my final sentence, and the partial crux of the post.
Did those startups do so in the midst of a major shortage?
Those machines in the vid are top tier, and I'm not suggesting production would initially be at that level of sophistication or volume. Such a startup is not going to fill the national need single handedly. But the process is still fairly basic. Sans bureaucracy/conspiracy (yea right! and again, mostly the point..) I dont see why a small operation couldnt be up and running in a yr.
'Instant' was vague here, sorry-- I meant once you push go. Often times manufactures take losses for years while brand building etc before getting out of the red. Perhaps ppl think everything will 'return to normal', which is a standard bias but IMO not realistic.
Here is a fairly recent post about primers. Great read; maybe alot of dudes here know all this but I learned alot. Dont stop after first few posts.
The consensus seems to be the primer material is the sticker. To quote the last poster there:
"
Safety standards with something so volatile is not pointless bureaucracy, but perhaps now all the factors are in place for more automation, better compounds and processes, etc.
Or just say fukitall and revisit caseless ammo, which probly should have happened decades ago. (yes im aware of all the old issues but time marches on)
The consensus seems to be the primer material is the sticker. To quote the last poster there:
"
I bet the roll presses and stamping machines are rounding errors in the process stand-up cost compared to the standards-compliant (and certified by a PE, etc…) storage bunkers, security compliance, safety certifications and studies, environmental compliance, yadda yadda. Someone already in the ammo business likely already has, or has access to these things, but for a startup to go through all that just to make an item with a wholesale price/per of a couple of cents? "
Safety standards with something so volatile is not pointless bureaucracy, but perhaps now all the factors are in place for more automation, better compounds and processes, etc.
Or just say fukitall and revisit caseless ammo, which probly should have happened decades ago. (yes im aware of all the old issues but time marches on)
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@THEIS
Please begin the education.... Again... I enjoy it when you hold class. I imagine you in the frog track suit lecturing at oxford
Please begin the education.... Again... I enjoy it when you hold class. I imagine you in the frog track suit lecturing at oxford
Hi,
I am not going back through reading everything, lol....Give me the rundown on what I need to lecture about but be quick...MBS is calling in 10 minutes to discuss the upcoming World Defense Show...
Sincerely,
Theis
People posing that primer plants are fairly quick and easy to set up and have running in about a year and how easy it would be for smaller ventures.
Hi,
O shit, that is an easy lecture.
SHOW ME or STFU about it because anyone who thinks and says so has zero and I mean zero knowledge of it, PERIOD.
Sincerely,
Theis
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Not to mention finding the talent that knows what the fuck they're doing when it comes to formulation, safety, process engineering, etc etc etc
It may not be years out on the shortage, I notice .22lr is in stock for $50/brick. A little different situation, but not what I expected on Ammoseek this am.
The longer .22 and primers sit at high prices the sooner they'll start to come down in price. Supply and demand, and I think demand for $100 bricks is waning fast.
Hi,
I have been working on my elegancy levels.
Put back to primer factory setup, lol..
The packing machines (Minimum of 2 needed) for a single production line is $225k each.
The product liability insurance will run MINIMUM of $10k per month. That is for 100 primers to approximately 1 million released into commerce. Insurance goes up at a non linear rate as amount of primers released into commerce go up.
The metrology lab will be around $185k.
The pickling and passivation machine will be around $340k.
The transfer press (2 banks for each primer size) will be around $2million.
Might as well just stop there because we haven't even hit the expensive equipment yet, lolol.....
FYI...Anyone of the "its easy" guys that want to dive off into it...I have full set of machines and equipment you will need that can be delivered within 6 weeks.....$19 Million USD.
Sincerely,
Theis
SWEET! do you take Venmo?
Hi,
Sure do, meet me at the KSA Embassy in Turkey and we can finalize the deal.
Sincerely,
Theis
So 19M for the machinery....at 100 for a thousand primers...lets see....carry the 3 divide by x. Hmm the first 190 million primers covers the equipment. of course you have occupancy/insurance/payroll/taxes/bribes....
Just ask Uncle Biden, he'll have the government give you 150% forgivable grant to cover startup costs.. you only have to kick back 10%.
Oh, and to sell it through congress, just say you are making 'green' primers. They'll bury that fucker in the 'Infrastructure' bill.. nobody will even question it...
Don't forget... 10%!
Oh, and to sell it through congress, just say you are making 'green' primers. They'll bury that fucker in the 'Infrastructure' bill.. nobody will even question it...
Don't forget... 10%!
PROFIT?!?!?!?!?? We don't ned no steenkin profit. This will be a non profit.....we are doing this to help the shooting community.......profit.....how dare you sir.....
I was afraid to ask for fear of being charged per question.
gotta be per 1k
They had 2 unopened cases on the top shelf.
What’s wild is nothing else had prices. I guess they just make it up as they go.
If its per 1k, thats not bad. Really. Compared to GB prices.....
my buddy went there the other day, it was
$300 per 1,000 or so he said. If its the same place.
I think what we're talking about here with with 30% number is "gross margin", and not "net profit". Yeah, you can run a business for a while with a big fat zero in the latter category (ask most anyone who mass-produces stuff like automotive parts), but running a business with insufficient gross margin to cover overhead and what-not is a good way to become familiar with the relevant portions of bankruptcy code.
Hi,
Update:
NONE of the "it is easy experts" have made contact with me yet, lol.
Maybe they will become commercial sponsor here today so they can sell their manufactured goods by at least next Friday...since it so easy!!
Sincerely,
Theis
Update:
NONE of the "it is easy experts" have made contact with me yet, lol.
Maybe they will become commercial sponsor here today so they can sell their manufactured goods by at least next Friday...since it so easy!!
Sincerely,
Theis
Maybe if CCI changed their name to CCP primers and move mfg to Beijing, o'le Xiden would subsidize them to increase production? 
My reloading shop now has a wide selection of 8lb jugs of powder and he said that the 1lb market is getting saturated and pretty soon they'll have 8lbers of Varget and other high demand powders. They had a half pallet of CFE 223 8lbers and I grabbed a couple.
Although they sell out fast, they are getting their normal allotment of bullets. The bullet shelves are pretty sparse, but it's because they are selling the shit out of them; not because they're not receiving them from the manufacturers. They're just not getting any primers.
They said they won't get any primers till the major ammo suppliers catch up and take off the 3rd shift. Despite how many primers are sold directly to the public, their main business is not reloading supplies but selling them to the ammo manufacturers. They clearly have the volume that gives them the priority. The reloading community is a tiny fraction of the entire shooting community, and we will be the last one to get the stuff we want/need.
I'll bet less than 10% of people who shoot regularly make their own ammunition, and of those most probably buy a kit, use it a couple of times and go back to shooting factory. Outside of my friends who shoot PRS I don't know anyone who reloads metallic cartridges, and only a couple who run shot shell reloaders. We just don't weigh much on the scales of firearms commerce.
The important thing here is to understand that this will come and this will go, and not to pay onehundredfuckindollars for a box of primers, and wait till they drop to something more sane. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
This is the third or fourth one of these bullshit things I've been through, and although I've given away a dozen boxes of primers I have yet to buy a single one in the last year. When they're not stupid anymore I will replenish. It's been a cheap component that I've never really worried about, but I was glad I had a stupid amount of them when this happened, because I'd rather have a stupid amount of something cheap than pay a stupid amount for something that should be cheap.
Although they sell out fast, they are getting their normal allotment of bullets. The bullet shelves are pretty sparse, but it's because they are selling the shit out of them; not because they're not receiving them from the manufacturers. They're just not getting any primers.
They said they won't get any primers till the major ammo suppliers catch up and take off the 3rd shift. Despite how many primers are sold directly to the public, their main business is not reloading supplies but selling them to the ammo manufacturers. They clearly have the volume that gives them the priority. The reloading community is a tiny fraction of the entire shooting community, and we will be the last one to get the stuff we want/need.
I'll bet less than 10% of people who shoot regularly make their own ammunition, and of those most probably buy a kit, use it a couple of times and go back to shooting factory. Outside of my friends who shoot PRS I don't know anyone who reloads metallic cartridges, and only a couple who run shot shell reloaders. We just don't weigh much on the scales of firearms commerce.
The important thing here is to understand that this will come and this will go, and not to pay onehundredfuckindollars for a box of primers, and wait till they drop to something more sane. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
This is the third or fourth one of these bullshit things I've been through, and although I've given away a dozen boxes of primers I have yet to buy a single one in the last year. When they're not stupid anymore I will replenish. It's been a cheap component that I've never really worried about, but I was glad I had a stupid amount of them when this happened, because I'd rather have a stupid amount of something cheap than pay a stupid amount for something that should be cheap.
God you guys are dumb. Go to San Francisco, find local gun shop, walk in grab 2k primers walk out. You won't be prosecuted if it's under $900 bucks. Easy!!!!
There are 6 not counting pawn/jewelry stores with an license. Don't forget, SF was not always a leftist shithole. Once upon a time there were real (and fictional) people fighting against the communists...
Ha,
As I sit at my desk and run numbers on a few parts we make in house for customers from EU that sell machines here. Then get interrupted by my guys to double check how a new install tool shipping container is being built by us for us. Just had machine tool tech in yesterday for a cnc lathe quirk, tooling and material costs jumping. Cant even order a vfd or motor for customer machines because of no inventory...
Yep this is easy!!!
As I sit at my desk and run numbers on a few parts we make in house for customers from EU that sell machines here. Then get interrupted by my guys to double check how a new install tool shipping container is being built by us for us. Just had machine tool tech in yesterday for a cnc lathe quirk, tooling and material costs jumping. Cant even order a vfd or motor for customer machines because of no inventory...
Yep this is easy!!!
You fell for the trap!!!! You've been here long enough to know better than that!
Hi,
LOLOLOLOL PROVE THAT!!! Where is this conversation you typeth of lol?
Sincerely,
Theis
Anyone who is at all familiar with industrial real estate and plant construction knows it costs more and takes longer.
That horse is faking it.....beat him long enough he'll get his lazy ass up.....
