The SIG 716I TREAD .308 may be the best AR-308 / AR-10 type battle rifle for the money.

[GLD1980]

https://www.sigsauer.com/sig716-tread.html
This is my first AR-308/AR-10 type rifle and so far it has been reliable, accurate and fun to shoot. Build quality and finish are top teir. Online reviews and reports have confirmed the 716I is a quality shooter. Some owners and reviewers have suggested it is capable of running with the big names in the AR-308/ AR-10 pack. It is a serious best buy for the amount of features you get for its low price. It is also a frontline battle rifle with over 144,000 units currently issued by India to its Soldiers along the Line of Control with China and Pakistan.

This is definitely not an entry level rifle, but is it a top teir battle rifle?








So far I've shot 460rds of mixed match and military 7.62x51 & .308 through my SIG716I TREAD. It has been accurate and reliable. I lightened up the trigger with a JP Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit which gave me a clean crisp 4.5lb pull. I also added a SureFire ProComp 7.62 Muzzle Brake and VLTOR EMOD stock. I went with Magpul grips and covers and chose the Pro Offset Flip-ups for BUIS. On top sits a Nikon M-Tactical 3-12x42SF MK1-MRAD scope in 30mm Aero Precision Ultralight SPR mount.

 

[Jsp556]

Glad you’re liking it.

 

[MarkCO]

You bought it, you own it, shoot it and don't worry about other people's thoughts on it. We all have preferences forged from facts, feelings and perceptions, so they are never going to all line up.

On-line reviews don't do much for me. Influencers get paid for clicks/views/likes and while some reviewers are straight down the middle, most are not.

But looks nice and I'd like to get behind one someday and add to my current set of preferences.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm glad to hear you got a rifle you like & it works well for you.
No need really to be shoving a bunch of "reviews" and marketing fluff in your post.

In their price point, SIG makes decent factory AR platform rifles.

As to the rest, save posting the YouTube B.S. "reviews" for some other site.

 

[LRRPF52]

Start saving for a replacement scope. Nikon’s don’t hold up to semi-auto fire in my experience, especially on a large frame.

I like the streamlined interface between the upper and handguard on the SIG 716i and I think I saw one at a LGS with the optic combo for a great price, but I just can’t bring myself to buy large frames anymore.

I’ve owned 6 different .308 Win or .260 Rem ARs and have always wished the receiver set was smaller.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

It is a typical Sig firearm: at release, it sucked balls, so paying customers beta tested it, and future generations got better. I run a 716 frequently and love it, but it took some working out of bugs. If you happen to get a gen1 716, you probably got someone else's problem. If you buy it new, you are probably good to go.

 

[sinister]

... a typical ... firearm: at release, it sucked balls, so paying customers beta tested it, and future generations got better.

All new firearms have growing pains. Colt had 13 years between introduction and producing pistols with the Army's mandated M1911A1 modifications. Same deal as the M1 rifle, M16, and the M4 Carbine.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

All new firearms have growing pains. Colt had 13 years between introduction and producing pistols with the Army's mandated M1911A1 modifications. Same deal as the M1 rifle, M16, and the M4 Carbine.

I don't know that "all" do, nor do you. And cannot help but notice that you chose, as examples, US military arms - which often suffered from problems not always specific to the gun itself. Next, this is a civilian gun, sold to people who paid for a working thing. Your examples aren't exactly the same, but there is some merit to the point - just not quite as much as you staked.

And, with a few seconds of thought, several guns that were released as awesome come to mind HK USP, HK P7, Benelli super black eagle, Benelli M4, etc

Maybe I expect more...that could be it.

 

[RUTGERS95]

nope, not at 1500 when you have an aero for less

 

[GLD1980]

Thanks for the feedback from all of you. Next time I post I will try and exclude so many other sources but my own experiences. I got the impression very few people actually know SIG makes a Direct Impingement version of the 716. My thought was a few videos could shed some light and answer some questions on the 716I.

 

[bigjake83]

https://www.sigsauer.com/sig716-tread.html
This is my first AR-308/AR-10 type rifle and so far it has been reliable, accurate and fun to shoot. Build quality and finish are top teir. Online reviews and reports have confirmed the 716I is a quality shooter. Some owners and reviewers have suggested it is capable of running with the big names in the AR-308/ AR-10 pack. It is a serious best buy for the amount of features you get for its low price. It is also a frontline battle rifle with over 144,000 units currently issued by India to its Soldiers along the Line of Control with China and Pakistan.

This is definitely not an entry level rifle, but is it a top teir battle rifle?








So far I've shot 460rds of mixed match and military 7.62x51 & .308 through my SIG716I TREAD. It has been accurate and reliable. I lightened up the trigger with a JP Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit which gave me a clean crisp 4.5lb pull. I also added a SureFire ProComp 7.62 Muzzle Brake and VLTOR EMOD stock. I went with Magpul grips and covers and chose the Pro Offset Flip-ups for BUIS. On top sits a Nikon M-Tactical 3-12x42SF MK1-MRAD scope in 30mm Aero Precision Ultralight SPR mount.
View attachment 7637942

I'd be interested in seeing photos or the handguard removed so that we can see how the handguard and upper receiver interface with each other and the barrel nut design.

 

[GLD1980]

I'd be interested in seeing photos or the handguard removed so that we can see how the handguard and upper receiver interface with each other and the barrel nut design.

Later tonight or tomorrow I'll post some up. Anything else you may want to see?

 

[bigjake83]

Later tonight or tomorrow I'll post some up. Anything else you may want to see?

Yeah the Boltface, and measure the tip of the firing pin diameter. Thanks

 

[GLD1980]

@bigjake83
I don't have calipers yet but ill do my best to take pics next to a micrometer.

 

[GUNNER10]

https://www.sigsauer.com/sig716-tread.html
This is my first AR-308/AR-10 type rifle and so far it has been reliable, accurate and fun to shoot. Build quality and finish are top teir. Online reviews and reports have confirmed the 716I is a quality shooter. Some owners and reviewers have suggested it is capable of running with the big names in the AR-308/ AR-10 pack. It is a serious best buy for the amount of features you get for its low price. It is also a frontline battle rifle with over 144,000 units currently issued by India to its Soldiers along the Line of Control with China and Pakistan.

This is definitely not an entry level rifle, but is it a top teir battle rifle?








So far I've shot 460rds of mixed match and military 7.62x51 & .308 through my SIG716I TREAD. It has been accurate and reliable. I lightened up the trigger with a JP Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit which gave me a clean crisp 4.5lb pull. I also added a SureFire ProComp 7.62 Muzzle Brake and VLTOR EMOD stock. I went with Magpul grips and covers and chose the Pro Offset Flip-ups for BUIS. On top sits a Nikon M-Tactical 3-12x42SF MK1-MRAD scope in 30mm Aero Precision Ultralight SPR mount.
View attachment 7637942

Best is allays objective but I would say that for around 1500 bucks, it seems to be a solid option. The most important thing is that it works for you.

While i am willing to pay a premium for Kac and LMT over the Sig, based on historical quality control and platform abandonment issues, I would 100 percent chose the Sig over the average bullshit AP/Mix master you see floating around these days.

I think the engineers at sig are doing a great job, i think that there is enough institutional knowledge out there on large frame AR's that across the board, reliability has significantly increased in the last 5 to 10 years to the point that under most circumstances, the guns are just going to run.

 

[GLD1980]

I'd be interested in seeing photos or the handguard removed so that we can see how the handguard and upper receiver interface with each other and the barrel nut design.

The Handguard is keyed to the upper to avoid rotation and the nuts are fastened to the handguard using a retaining clip the secures the handguard in between the exterior top barrel threads. Very easy on off. Sorry about the measurements I don't have calipers. Tried using the wife's Cricut mat and my micrometer for a better idea.

 

[GLD1980]

nope, not at 1500 when you have an aero for less

We don't see eye to eye. The Aero is a great value and a great gun but I don't think it's a better spec'd, built or performing gun than the SIG 716I. Are you basing this on Aero being great or you not liking SIG?
Between here, AR15.COM, Glock Talk, etc... It seems most of the competing manufacturers have had problems with their AR-10/ AR-308 type rifles, some that are still ongoing. Some owners consider these issues teething issues. I get it, sometimes it takes a while to get it right. SIG has had their share of flops before figuring it out. I've read the Aero Precision M5E1 problems are gas and cycling issues. Regardless the M5E1 does not have the 716I beat IMO. Seems more like feelings than facts, but hey, I've been wrong before. I'm 30min from Tacoma where Aero is made and would be willing to find out if possible.
When I think better and a step up for a Battle Rifle/DMR, I think LaRue OBR, LMT MWS or some of the more expensive types like the FN SCAR 20, HK CSASS, or KAC SR-25 variety.

 

[diggler1833]

I am extremely glad that the OP is happy with his purchase. The post did sound like more of an infomercial to me though.

Best for the money is extremely subjective, as diminishing returns to an aficionado will be based upon disposable income.

There are a lot of dudes here who have no problem dropping several times the cost of the TREAD for something that has been proven in combat with U. S./NATO forces, and they (rightfully) consider the track record as part of the criteria. I understand that the SIGs are in use by an Indian unit, but at this point I have no idea if they've seen extensive combat (guessing no).

I too am always looking for best bang for the buck stuff, and when it comes to ARs it is difficult for me to find a rack grade that has all of what I want, and none of what I don't...or is cost prohibitive. Therefore I assembled my two larger frame ARs using decent parts, and managed to come in at less than the TREAD. I'm very content with the route I took.

 

[kl3309]

How much battlin' have you done with it so far?

 

[bigjake83]

The Handguard is keyed to the upper to avoid rotation and the nuts are fastened to the handguard using a retaining clip the secures the handguard in between the exterior top barrel threads. Very easy on off. Sorry about the measurements I don't have calipers. Tried using the wife's Cricut mat and my micrometer for a better idea.

Thanks for taking the time to post those pictures, it seems to be put together well.

 

[RUTGERS95]

We don't see eye to eye. The Aero is a great value and a great gun but I don't think it's a better spec'd, built or performing gun than the SIG 716I. Are you basing this on Aero being great or you not liking SIG?
Between here, AR15.COM, Glock Talk, etc... It seems most of the competing manufacturers have had problems with their AR-10/ AR-308 type rifles, some that are still ongoing. Some owners consider these issues teething issues. I get it, sometimes it takes a while to get it right. SIG has had their share of flops before figuring it out. I've read the Aero Precision M5E1 problems are gas and cycling issues. Regardless the M5E1 does not have the 716I beat IMO. Seems more like feelings than facts, but hey, I've been wrong before. I'm 30min from Tacoma where Aero is made and would be willing to find out if possible.
When I think better and a step up for a Battle Rifle/DMR, I think LaRue OBR, LMT MWS or some of the more expensive types like the FN SCAR 20, HK CSASS, or KAC SR-25 variety.

at 50% more than the AP, what are you getting? The areo is reliable, lots of mkt support, moa guarantee, eats everything so what more do you want in a rifle? Just look on these boards and the overall community and you'll find the M5 is reputed to what I said above. Sure there are issues from time to time but it's not the norm (M5, LMT, even KAC). The SIG is overpriced for what you are getting. I don't see it as viable option as I look at the 308 mkt you've got high end KAC/LMT/SCAR and then everyone else. Once you look at everyone else, price, reliability and performance matters. Not to mention SIG support just flat out sucks and it's not like those teething problems suddenly went away. Let's talk in 2yrs and see as more, if more, flood the community

no feelings here, just nothing impressive for the SIG vs a M5 or other variants here. Hell, I'd rather the M&P here or even LaRue UU kit to the SIG for the same price. I know what I'm getting there.

if you want, break it down by components and start there.

Do agree that the large frame ARs have more issues but that is due to lack of conformity in specs vs the ar15 not to mention, most of these cats that have issues mix parts when you dial down and bam, there you.

fyi, no AP fanboy here and while I've owned a few and only one of these now, it sits as I only take out the LMTs now as they get my fondling

 

[bigjake83]

at 50% more than the AP, what are you getting? The areo is reliable, lots of mkt support, moa guarantee, eats everything so what more do you want in a rifle? Just look on these boards and the overall community and you'll find the M5 is reputed to what I said above. Sure there are issues from time to time but it's not the norm (M5, LMT, even KAC). The SIG is overpriced for what you are getting. I don't see it as viable option as I look at the 308 mkt you've got high end KAC/LMT/SCAR and then everyone else. Once you look at everyone else, price, reliability and performance matters. Not to mention SIG support just flat out sucks and it's not like those teething problems suddenly went away. Let's talk in 2yrs and see as more, if more, flood the community

no feelings here, just nothing impressive for the SIG vs a M5 or other variants here. Hell, I'd rather the M&P here or even LaRue UU kit to the SIG for the same price. I know what I'm getting there.

if you want, break it down by components and start there.

Do agree that the large frame ARs have more issues but that is due to lack of conformity in specs vs the ar15 not to mention, most of these cats that have issues mix parts when you dial down and bam, there you.

fyi, no AP fanboy here and while I've owned a few and only one of these now, it sits as I only take out the LMTs now as they get my fondling

How is it 50% more?? They are both priced at the $1350-$1550 range from what I can see.

 

[NH4X]

Welp.......points that I would have made ...........have been made above..........let's get down to where the rubber meets the road..........post some pictures of shot targets..........show us how you and your Sig " can do it "

Hope it's a shooter for ya....and you have much fun with it.

 

[bigjake83]

I'm not quite sure why everybody is giving the OP a healthy ration of shit, yeah it does kinda feel like a infomercial thread but who cares??

If someone is willing to spend their money and their time to inform the public and give their impression of a product what's the problem with that?
Hopefully this thread will help another member make an informed decision down the road.

Me personally, yeah I think it's a budget rifle but it does have some design changes that I think are pretty smart, for instance how the dual ejectors are closer to the center line of the bolt face. Most manufacturers have it right up against the wall of the bolt which decreases strength by removing material from that critical area.

 

[GLD1980]

at 50% more than the AP, what are you getting? The areo is reliable, lots of mkt support, moa guarantee, eats everything so what more do you want in a rifle? Just look on these boards and the overall community and you'll find the M5 is reputed to what I said above. Sure there are issues from time to time but it's not the norm (M5, LMT, even KAC). The SIG is overpriced for what you are getting. I don't see it as viable option as I look at the 308 mkt you've got high end KAC/LMT/SCAR and then everyone else. Once you look at everyone else, price, reliability and performance matters. Not to mention SIG support just flat out sucks and it's not like those teething problems suddenly went away. Let's talk in 2yrs and see as more, if more, flood the community's

no feelings here, just nothing impressive for the SIG vs a M5 or other variants here. Hell, I'd rather the M&P here or even LaRue UU kit to the SIG for the same price. I know what I'm getting there.

if you want, break it down by components and start there.

Do agree that the large frame ARs have more issues but that is due to lack of conformity in specs vs the ar15 not to mention, most of these cats that have issues mix parts when you dial down and bam, there you.

fyi, no AP fanboy here and while I've owned a few and only one of these now, it sits as I only take out the LMTs now as they get my fondling

I still don't agree. Aero makes amazing products, thats not the argument. I believe the SIG 716I is the better battle rifle of the 2 rifles in question has it comes complete from the factory. I also believe we are off on the price difference with these rifles too. I believe the cost to be within a few hundred dollars of eachother complete from the manufacturer. I also believe they are evenenly spec'd in quality of parts. Ofcourse Aero has the ability to be built up to the owners specs, offers a variety of caliber and build/barrel type and is compatible with parts from other manufacturers, all a major plus in the AR-10/ AR-308 world where the SIG 716I is lacking. That still doesn't make Aero the better big gun. Sometimes you get lucky and don't need all those things to be the better gun and if you hand build it, you have a custom rifle not an Aero M5E1. For the builders.... I get it.... It is better to build what you want and need to your quality specs not another's. Has rewarding as it may be, it can also be costly until you get it down, and every gun is a different animal to tune. For those of us not yet building, the best complete rifle is the next best investment. Where exactly is the point of diminishing returns here? Many would agree it lies with the LMT MWS. After that is more money really getting you that much more gun?
Personally I do not think the SIG 716I is an entry level gun. I think its a mid tier gun that could be top tier with a few platform additions.
So when say you'd rather have an M&P you had me laughing. It may shoot well and perform flawlessly but will it be the better gun in the beginning and end. I just don't think we're comparing apples to apples there. As for the LaRue UU kit or build, I want one too but now we are talking more expensive competition where I actually feel the SIG belongs.
What is keeping the SIG back in your mind? Is it the 16"bbl, the lack of an ambi bolt hold open/release, or the lack or parts interchangeability and modularity offered by other manufacturers?
To each his own I guess. As for SIG customer service, I am the 2nd owner of a 556R and have experienced my product being dropped by them and they've still honored the lifetime warranty, servicing the rifle back to new from previous ownership fuck-up's. Please keep that hush hush so all the bitter SIG owners don't figure this out. I've owned 3 SIG rifles and 4 SIG pistols all with no customer service issues. Come to think about it I've never had a problem with them let alone any manufacturer of a firearm. I have had my share of gun related issues but they all were resolved. I always get my money's worth I guess. I measure the company on there products and services and their promptness and willingness to get issues resolved. For me SIG has been A+, but so has S&W, Mossberg, Ruger, FN, Walther, H&K and Springfield Armory.

 

[GLD1980]

couple design features, from the pics, that I think are worth mentioning.

looks like the gas block is clamp-on? instead of set-screw or pinned. I would've expected it to be either pinned, or dimpled and set-screw. just an observation, clamp-on works just fine. might be pinned, just not enough resolution from the pic.

the handguard anti-rotation key that mates with the notch in the upper receiver, is nice, although you won't find any aftermarket HG's that have that feature, if you want to rebarrel and go with a different length HG, e.g. 20" barrel & 16" HG.

the handguard retention looks to be similar to what BCM does, opposing screws at the top. The wedge retention against the barrel nut (is what it looks like) is also similar to what Aero Atlas, and SLR HG's use, although at the bottom. It's advantageous to have the retention up top by the gas tube.

the cutout in the top of the bolt carrier for the charging handle, with the raised edges, and stress-reducing radius's (circular fillets), is a premium touch, IMHO. Helps to keep the end of the charging handle exactly where it's supposed to be, so that it doesn't have the opportunity to twist (think of when you have to mortar), or contact/bind the gas tube (GT engagement in the gas key). Although the depth of the cut seems deeper than AR-308 "standard". Should still be compatible with aftermarket charging handles (e.g. Raptor, etc). Gas tube is supposed to have a slight degree of float so that it can self-center in the gas key. All of my AR-308 bolt carriers are cut flat across.

and it looks like a steel barrel nut, instead of an aluminum barrel nut.

would be interesting to know if it has the HP "skinny" firing pin and corresponding smaller bolt-face FP aperture, if you ever decide to put a 6.5CM upper on it, although perhaps not absolutely necessary. couldn't tell if there's a regular extractor, or lobster tail.

just some observations from the pics, nothing more.

The gasblock is pinned with 2 large pins.

 

[sinister]

Like it or not, I think the Indian Army's use and abuse of the SIG is going to be the biggest data-point collection for the 7.62 AR battle rifle in combat since the original Dutch Artillerie Inrichtingen AR-10s Portugal used in Africa.

Darn near everybody else uses them in sniper or DM role. The Indians are using them as straight battle rifles, replacing the AK, INSAS, and FAL.

Nobody else has bought anywhere near 144,000 and issued them to line Joes -- and that includes every military-fielded SR-25, Mk 11, LMT L129, and HK 417 out there, together.

If this next-gen 6.8 doesn't get bought and fielded they still have the biggest pool of current in-production large-cal battle/service rifles out there. I don't know if HK still makes the G3. IMBEL may still make FALs for Brazil, but I don't know if they export, and HK is so paranoid they are hinky about exporting anything outside the US military and EU.

 

[GUNNER10]

I still don't agree. Aero makes amazing products, thats not the argument. I believe the SIG 716I is the better battle rifle of the 2 rifles in question has it comes complete from the factory. I also believe we are off on the price difference with these rifles too. I believe the cost to be within a few hundred dollars of eachother complete from the manufacturer. I also believe they are evenenly spec'd in quality of parts. Ofcourse Aero has the ability to be built up to the owners specs, offers a variety of caliber and build/barrel type and is compatible with parts from other manufacturers, all a major plus in the AR-10/ AR-308 world where the SIG 716I is lacking. That still doesn't make Aero the better big gun. Sometimes you get lucky and don't need all those things to be the better gun and if you hand build it, you have a custom rifle not an Aero M5E1. For the builders.... I get it.... It is better to build what you want and need to your quality specs not another's. Has rewarding as it may be, it can also be costly until you get it down, and every gun is a different animal to tune. For those of us not yet building, the best complete rifle is the next best investment. Where exactly is the point of diminishing returns here? Many would agree it lies with the LMT MWS. After that is more money really getting you that much more gun?
Personally I do not think the SIG 716I is an entry level gun. I think its a mid tier gun that could be top tier with a few platform additions.
So when say you'd rather have an M&P you had me laughing. It may shoot well and perform flawlessly but will it be the better gun in the beginning and end. I just don't think we're comparing apples to apples there. As for the LaRue UU kit or build, I want one too but now we are talking more expensive competition where I actually feel the SIG belongs.
What is keeping the SIG back in your mind? Is it the 16"bbl, the lack of an ambi bolt hold open/release, or the lack or parts interchangeability and modularity offered by other manufacturers?
To each his own I guess. As for SIG customer service, I am the 2nd owner of a 556R and have experienced my product being dropped by them and they've still honored the lifetime warranty, servicing the rifle back to new from previous ownership fuck-up's. Please keep that hush hush so all the bitter SIG owners don't figure this out. I've owned 3 SIG rifles and 4 SIG pistols all with no customer service issues. Come to think about it I've never had a problem with them let alone any manufacturer of a firearm. I have had my share of gun related issues but they all were resolved. I always get my money's worth I guess. I measure the company on there products and services and their promptness and willingness to get issues resolved. For me SIG has been A+, but so has S&W, Mossberg, Ruger, FN, Walther, H&K and Springfield Armory.

What is keeping the Sig back?

The answer to that question is Sig, with the spotty QC track record and their ADHD syndrome in regards to platform support. There reality is that many Sig owners had to pay a heavy penalty for being an early adopter to their products, Their 556 was dropped, the Gen 1 Mpx was a shit show, and this has been at least the third iteration of a 308 AR.

I think Sig is in going in the right direction, but some of the shit they do is painful to watch. This is coming from the owner of a 556 and P320/M18. Sig for at least the last 2 decades have been a total roll of the dice in terms of what you are going to get.

At the 716's core, i think that its a solid rifle. I think that if they would stick to what ever they are doing, and may offer a number of specialized uppers, I think you would see the platform grow. For example, maybe add a 13.5 inch 308, 16 inch 6.5cm, and maybe 20 inch variants of 6.5/308.

I would personally would not buy a 716 because I could very easily seeing them dropping this platform once they shake out all of the bugs out of their large frame MCX/Spear and all you would get from Sig is sorry dog, your shits week, our new Spear is the business.

 

[GUNNER10]

Like it or not, I think the Indian Army's use and abuse of the SIG is going to be the biggest data-point collection for the 7.62 AR battle rifle in combat since the original Dutch Artillerie Inrichtingen AR-10s Portugal used in Africa.

Darn near everybody else uses them in sniper or DM role. The Indians are using them as straight battle rifles, replacing the FAL, AK, and INSAS.

Nobody else has bought anywhere near 144,000 and issued them to line Joes -- and that includes every military-fielded SR-25, Mk 11, LMT L129, and HK 417 out there, together.

I agree but considering Indian PMCS habits, I think that any MRBF data may be skewed higher than what would be found in more western forces. Think of it of the reliability of our M16/M4's vs the Iraqi or Afghani's.

 

[sinister]

The Indians bought the SIG after the AKM and INSAS. They KNOW shitty rifles maintained by third-world soldiers. The Sig has GOT to be better than what they had.

 

[GUNNER10]

The Indians bought the SIG after the AKM and INSAS. They KNOW shitty rifles maintained by third-world soldiers. The Sig has GOT to be better than what they had.

I agree,

Without seeing any data, I am confident that the the Sig is better than anything they have. While they can build nukes and crash a lander onto the moon, I am not confident in your average, low cast solider being able to maintain a western rifle. That would almost be like me being able to handle an F1 car because i drive a truck or suv to work or a Bush pilot handed an osprey because they can fly a prop plane.

While I REALLY like the Indians that work for us, as for a group that struggles with personal hygiene, and site clean up, one is just as likely to see them design a hypersonic cruiser missile as they are to see them perform any level of rifle maintenance. This is just not something that is in their DNA.

I hope it works out for them

 

[GLD1980]

I agree,

Without seeing any data, I am confident that the the Sig is better than anything they have. While they can build nukes and crash a lander onto the moon, I am not confident in your average, low cast solider being able to maintain a western rifle. That would almost be like me being able to handle an F1 car because i drive a truck or suv to work or a Bush pilot handed an osprey because they can fly a prop plane.

While I REALLY like the Indians that work for us, as for a group that struggles with personal hygiene, and site clean up, one is just as likely to see them design a hypersonic cruiser missile as they are to see them perform any level of rifle maintenance. This is just not something that is in their DNA.

I hope it works out for them

If they were able to maintain the shitty INSAS 5.56 rifle for has long as they did and fight with it, they might actually surprise you and appreciate the major advancement in there hands and put it to good use. I hope this isn't one of those "This is why we can't have nice things", moments! These rifles are intended to defend the Line of Control between them and China on one side, and Pakistan on the other.

On second thought its not like US Infantrymen or Soldiers enjoy weapons maintenance either. Some guys just expect weapons to work no matter what. It's the funniest fuckin concept ever.

 

[BarkBeetle]

So quanity has a quality all it's own ?

 

[GUNNER10]

If they were able to maintain the shitty INSAS 5.56 rifle for has long as they did and fight with it, they might actually surprise you and appreciate the major advancement in there hands and put it to good use. I hope this isn't one of those "This is why we can't have nice things", moments! These rifles are intended to defend the Line of Control between them and China on one side, and Pakistan on the other.

On second thought its not like US Infantrymen or Soldiers enjoy weapons maintenance either. Some guys just expect weapons to work no matter what. It's the funniest fuckin concept ever.

I don't know man... I've worked with alot of low cast Indians as sub contractors in the middle east and the shit they do will amaze you.

In regards to our guys and rifle maintenance, I think your average US line unit way overdose it to the point of removing finish from rifles. Shit, sometimes all they do some times is sit at the armory and clean weapons if they are not in the field. It's not like they have a choice in the matter, as for the instagram type influences that never clean their shit, one can get away with that for quite a while especially if using quality ammo and no can.

Run a bunch a steel cased wolf piss with a can and YMMV.

Maintaining a AR based weapon is simple, and practically can be done in 5 minutes.

I have no confidence that the average Indian line troop or commander can grasp this concept.

 

[sinister]

If you consider 144,000 rifles without scopes, this is the 7.62 AR battle rifle concept the United States could have fielded in lieu of the M14, if not just for infantry.

Regardless what one considers the quality of the individual Indian soldier (or American draftee), I don't think it's a bad choice for them. It is not quite AK-simple, it IS 7.62 NATO, and it is considerably lighter, more compact, and balanced than other current US production or HK 7.62 rifles.

The Indian Army, like everyone else's military, sends out requests for information, requests for proposal and price, and eventually tenders for companies to bid on. Aero, Knight, LMT, and others may or may not have competed -- India often specifies contract qualifiers and riders that require a certain percentage of primary or repair parts be made in India, which could have turned off smaller manufacturers like Aero and any number of other small shops.

 

[wdnoynksl34]

for the price I'm tempted to buy a 716i even though I just purchased a Pof Rogue...I'd rather have a S&W M&P but the price is a too steep now for what it is (for me), the original pricing was a deal. I've only shot an AR10 w/ ACOG, Colt 901 with bipod and scope (heavy pig) and my Pof with ACSS "red dot". AR10 was smooth like my MP5/40 is smooth, Pof has little recoil. Colt had massive recoil, weighed a lot, and overgassed (sad to see Colt put out a product like that)

 

[LRRPF52]

We don't see eye to eye. The Aero is a great value and a great gun but I don't think it's a better spec'd, built or performing gun than the SIG 716I. Are you basing this on Aero being great or you not liking SIG?
Between here, AR15.COM, Glock Talk, etc... It seems most of the competing manufacturers have had problems with their AR-10/ AR-308 type rifles, some that are still ongoing. Some owners consider these issues teething issues. I get it, sometimes it takes a while to get it right. SIG has had their share of flops before figuring it out. I've read the Aero Precision M5E1 problems are gas and cycling issues. Regardless the M5E1 does not have the 716I beat IMO. Seems more like feelings than facts, but hey, I've been wrong before. I'm 30min from Tacoma where Aero is made and would be willing to find out if possible.
When I think better and a step up for a Battle Rifle/DMR, I think LaRue OBR, LMT MWS or some of the more expensive types like the FN SCAR 20, HK CSASS, or KAC SR-25 variety.

Jim Sullivan (who scaled down the original AR-10 to the AR-15 while working at ArmaLite in Hollywood in the late 1950s) said they always had reliability problems with the AR-10 for some reason they could never figure out, and that the AR-15 was always more reliable.

The top companies in the industry who picked up the design again, starting with KAC and Stoner in the 1980s, followed by Eagle Arms, and everyone else...have worked really hard to constantly find ways to make it more reliable. Without deep pockets for an ammo and engineering budget, this is a tall order for most companies. Using AR-15 furniture and RET compatibility was a strategic decision for KAC to reduce their barrier to entry into the market 35+ years ago, but was a departure from the original AR-10 BCG and RET diameters, which they have lamented in recent years.

Aero Precision was Eagle Arms/1996 “ArmaLite”'s supplier for forged receiver sets, then entered the market with parts for consumers over the past decade or so.

SIG has the kind of institutional knowledge and culture to take ownership over the entire product for design, testing, refining, and final production, so I would expect higher performance from them than everyone but the big boys who have been working in the SR-25/AR-10 space for decades.

These companies acquire and study each other’s products looking for little details the consumer would never see or notice.

I think it’s fair to see Aero as a parts company, while SIG is a functioning product company who invests in testing and development based on specific product SKU and configurations with a large ammo budget.

 

[sinister]

I am not an engineer. Based on what I can see, I think a 716 weak point might / is going to be the rear of the lower receiver where they put a QD mount hole, based on cracking problems all-synthetic AR lowers had, if the Indians use shit ammo and have to resort to "Mortaring" to clear stuck cases.

EDITED: NEVER MIND. It looks like the Indian Army 716I does NOT have the QD holes machined-out:

 

[GLD1980]

for the price I'm tempted to buy a 716i even though I just purchased a Pof Rogue...I'd rather have a S&W M&P but the price is a too steep now for what it is (for me), the original pricing was a deal. I've only shot an AR10 w/ ACOG, Colt 901 with bipod and scope (heavy pig) and my Pof with ACSS "red dot". AR10 was smooth like my MP5/40 is smooth, Pof has little recoil. Colt had massive recoil, weighed a lot, and overgassed (sad to see Colt put out a product like that)

The SIG 716I has rifle length gas and a full length AR-10 buffer tube. I rarely noticed recoil and never received shoulder bruising like I did after shooting my M1A SOCOM16 rapidly. After adding my SureFire ProComp to the SIG 716I, I barely notice anything and follow up shots are easier.

Here's a video of me going 8-11 on a 280yd 10" steel plate at a 29° slope angle off bipod, at a quick pace.
Disclaimer; I'm not claiming to be the greatest marksman. I lack patience and the misses were my fault not my equipment. I went 8-11 but look at the rifle, barely any movement. I shoulder hard and weigh 230lbs so that helps in the prone but my rifle barely moves.

 

[sinister]

Here's a video of me going 8-11 on a 280yd 10" steel plate at a 29° slope angle off bipod, at a quick pace.

I think if you were shooting a US GI E-type target you would have got pretty satisfactory hits, even with just iron sights.

Reading a little deeper (I knew the Indians had bought the Sig, but didn't recall details), the Sig's competition were the Caracal HK417 copy, the Galil, and Tavor. One of their requirements was rifle grenade launching capability, as they don't seem to do an M203 / 320 equivalent.

The Sig is equipping all their infantry battalions, while SF formations wil get a Caracal 416 and FN SCAR.

 

[LRRPF52]

I am not an engineer. Based on what I can see, I think a 716 weak point might / is going to be the rear of the lower receiver where they put a QD mount hole, based on cracking problems all-synthetic AR lowers had, if the Indians use shit ammo and have to resort to "Mortaring" to clear stuck cases.

EDITED: NEVER MIND. It looks like the Indian Army 716I does NOT have the QD holes machined-out:

Every time I see that QD socket machined out on the RET boss thread area, I think the same thing.

I suspect they incorporate reinforcement into it when I see the raised ring around the socket aperture, like KAC has done on the later SR-15 variants and their PDW.

Another interesting thing about the SIG 716i is the pistol grip, which looks very close to a P365 grip angle and shape.

 

[GLD1980]

I am not an engineer. Based on what I can see, I think a 716 weak point might / is going to be the rear of the lower receiver where they put a QD mount hole, based on cracking problems all-synthetic AR lowers had, if the Indians use shit ammo and have to resort to "Mortaring" to clear stuck cases.

EDITED: NEVER MIND. It looks like the Indian Army 716I does NOT have the QD holes machined-out:

Can you tell anything from the Forging marks?
Here are better pics, included is a close up of the removable/ replaceable steel brass deflector and of the QD mount rear.

 

[GLD1980]

Here is another owners pics and mine illustrating the handguard key. Also some more barrel and crown shots thanks to Ex_Sanguine_Nation from AR-15.com.

 

[sinister]

With the current Sig commercial rifle I'd be most concerned with structural strength at the yellow lines. Not a whole lot of metal on either side.

If you notice on the Indian Army rifles, those QD holes are NOT machined-out for the steel QD inserts.

 

[wdnoynksl34]

The SIG 716I has rifle length gas and a full length AR-10 buffer tube. I rarely noticed recoil and never received shoulder bruising like I did after shooting my M1A SOCOM16 rapidly. After adding my SureFire ProComp to the SIG 716I, I barely notice anything and follow up shots are easier.

Here's a video of me going 8-11 on a 280yd 10" steel plate at a 29° slope angle off bipod, at a quick pace.
Disclaimer; I'm not claiming to be the greatest marksman. I lack patience and the misses were my fault not my equipment. I went 8-11 but look at the rifle, barely any movement. I shoulder hard and weigh 230lbs so that helps in the prone but my rifle barely moves.

looks fun, I'll have to pay attention the Rogue may leave light bruising...the Colt definitely did. I grew up shooting side by side 12 gauges (bird guns) so I don't mind recoil but when it's low and smooth on a semi auto, I like that!

 

[GLD1980]

@GLD1980 what's the length of the rail? 14"?

@rpoL98
Yes it is 14" exactly.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I'm glad you like your rifle OP. As some people have said though, the rate that Sig moves through their rifles versions is frightening and using their customers to R&D their stuff. The Sig Cross with the hang fire problems comes to mind. I was really interested in the sig piston 716 a couple years back and then one day it no longer existed. Poof...

I would assume that with India adopting so many of these that support will not be an immediate issue.

 

[GLD1980]

I'm glad you like your rifle OP. As some people have said though, the rate that Sig moves through their rifles versions is frightening and using their customers to R&D their stuff. The Sig Cross with the hang fire problems comes to mind. I was really interested in the sig piston 716 a couple years back and then one day it no longer existed. Poof...

I would assume that with India adopting so many of these that support will not be an immediate issue.

I agree, SIG needs to get it together in a few very key areas. I also agree and made the same assumption for support with regards to the 716I & India's investment with SIG for over 144,000 units.
I've personally never had issues with SIG or their customer service. Repairs, Parts & Upgrades have always been great. The only complaint I have is how fast they drop weapons.
My Gen1 556 Swat FDE was dropped so I sold it. My Gen2 556R 7.62x39 is more of a Unicorn to me, so I've kept it.

SIG has taken it in twice, once to replace the dust cover which the first owner melted and a second time to replace a firing pin.
This thread is not intended to be about about SIG, it is meant to let the rest of you know that for $1400 or less you can get a 716I, which I believe is a Unicorn! It is one hell of a gun!

 

[BCP]

So are these rifles any good? Was looking at this or a POF Rogue for a hunting 308.

 

[GLD1980]

So are these rifles any good? Was looking at this or a POF Rogue for a hunting 308.

I think you'll see both are great guns but the SIG 716I is the better value. If it comes down to weight the POF is the lighter gun. If it comes to durability I think the SIG 716I takes the cake!