Agree, especially since he won't be able to mag load without seating bullets deep further limiting his velocity.
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Thinking about sticking with .308 vs. 6.5, am I crazy?
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OT, but cheapmoa would you do that hit probability chart thing for a 115DTAC at 3050 fps and a 147 at 3200 please.
I mag load 208s at over 2600 from my 24" so unless you know what you are talking about then leave it out. I have given data and you are giving uneducated opinion.
Does the OP hunt? I would rather use a 208 on game than a 140. Does the OP have 4000 308 brass waiting for a bullet? We don't know every aspect oh the OP's decision. Does the OP shoot 1 competition per year or every weekend? Does the OP shoot in 308 only competitions as well?
The OP asked a question and I am giving him info. If you want to make decisions for the OP then go be a socialist somewhere else. This is America.
Does the OP hunt? I would rather use a 208 on game than a 140. Does the OP have 4000 308 brass waiting for a bullet? We don't know every aspect oh the OP's decision. Does the OP shoot 1 competition per year or every weekend? Does the OP shoot in 308 only competitions as well?
The OP asked a question and I am giving him info. If you want to make decisions for the OP then go be a socialist somewhere else. This is America.
Not first hand but not uneducated. I know it can be done but when I considered it a few years ago, I felt it was too borderline from an AI pattern mag even without the binder plate.
You get so defensive about this 208 in a 308 thing. Contrary to what you believe I have shot a lot of 308, and still do 308 in ftr with 200 berger and plan to try the 208 bullet. That's a single load custom throat 28" barrel and even then I'll be surprised if I get much over 2600 fps. I feel your 24" at 2600 is just a faster than average barrel coupled with some close to max loads. But I could be wrong and I'm not calling you a liar at all on it.
Also, you keep throwing out the 208 eldm at 2600 but then a factory 140 at 2700. I'm not familiar with any factory 208 308 loads. A 140 eldm at 2800-2850 is very common reload. I run at 2850 with 42.1 gr H4350 but can get up to 2900 without pressure but still kind of hot I believe.
I didn't mean to be defensive. I don't think the 308 with a 208 is special. I actually like 7mm.
If I was going to make a decision for the OP then I would get a 284 WIN and run the 180 ELDM in a hyper stabilized 7.5 Twist barrel. It seems like a sweet spot.
At max the 6.5 CM beats the 308 WIN and we have already proven that it is an increase of 20-25% for Hits at 1200 yards. Most people run the factory ammo for the 6.5 CM because it is great ammo. I was just demonstrating that at a long range competition against most 6.5 CM that the 308 maxed out can still deliver equal Hit %. PRS is a different story because of rapid follow ups where you need minimal recoil. 6mm is very popular for PRS too.
It's just info guys. I'm not preaching.
Thanks. I didn't know you needed a long action.
I would do a 7 SAUM if that is the case and load accordingly.
Do you have one? If so, what bullet and COAL are you using? I've wondered about the defiance rebel medium with their special BDL that allows 3.2" length if I recall correctly.
Thank you Sheldon. Yes I do compete, and yes I am a casual competition shooter. I like to shoot against myself moreso than the other shooters, though I do admit it is very satisfying when I clean a stage where most others in my squad or even the whole event, who are all shooting something better than 308, don't. Gives me the warm and fuzzies.. lol.
Yes I do hunt, but I do not use a 308 to hunt. I have a couple of 7 rem mags I use for hunting. I have an x-bolt and a Mauser 98 that I built.
With all that being said, I really am leaning towards the 6.5.. I will have to see if its something that I can swing. Having a metric fuck-ton of brass, powder and projos for 308 does make it tempting to just stick with 308 though.
On the other hand, I guess I could just put my Ruger American Predator in 6creed into a chassis and go to town with that. Really did buy that rifle to build up for the woman though.
On the other hand, I guess I could just put my Ruger American Predator in 6creed into a chassis and go to town with that. Really did buy that rifle to build up for the woman though.
Piss in that case run that in a chassis you both can shoot with, buy factory Hornady/Prime ammo, and sell the fired brass... thats an EASY and economic solution. When the barrel is toast, buy a 6CM prefit from PVA and keep shooting.
Keep the .308 because you have a stockpile of it and for sake of training.
Keep the .308 because you have a stockpile of it and for sake of training.
here's some more numbers to stir the pot a bit...we had a club match yesterday, 50% field style (rocks, logs, tree branches, prone), 50% props (tires, rooftops, tank traps)
it was windy/gusty...winds measured from 5-18 mph with 8-10 effective the majority of the time based on holds
i screwed on my 308 barrel and shot it because i didnt feel like reloading any 6.5 and i already had 308 loaded
178s @ 2645 from a 24", suppressed...so about as much recoil as id ever want to run in a match dealing with positions...im also 6'5, 240 lbs so i can absorb more recoil from weird positions and stay on target easier than most
i finished 6th out of 76 shooters...shot 77% of the total points available for the match
8 stages of targets from 300-600 yds, 1 stage with targets past 915 yds
On the long range stage...
1st (67 pts total) - 10 pts
2nd (65 pts total) - 12 pts
3rd (65 pts total) - 10 pts
4th (65 pts total) - 9 pts
5th (63 pts total) - 7 pts
^^^ all shooting 6s or 6.5s ^^^
6th (me, 62 pts total) - 5 pts
maybe ill make some better wind calls next time lol
it was windy/gusty...winds measured from 5-18 mph with 8-10 effective the majority of the time based on holds
i screwed on my 308 barrel and shot it because i didnt feel like reloading any 6.5 and i already had 308 loaded
178s @ 2645 from a 24", suppressed...so about as much recoil as id ever want to run in a match dealing with positions...im also 6'5, 240 lbs so i can absorb more recoil from weird positions and stay on target easier than most
i finished 6th out of 76 shooters...shot 77% of the total points available for the match
8 stages of targets from 300-600 yds, 1 stage with targets past 915 yds
On the long range stage...
1st (67 pts total) - 10 pts
2nd (65 pts total) - 12 pts
3rd (65 pts total) - 10 pts
4th (65 pts total) - 9 pts
5th (63 pts total) - 7 pts
^^^ all shooting 6s or 6.5s ^^^
6th (me, 62 pts total) - 5 pts
maybe ill make some better wind calls next time lol
So you're still saying that 83.34% of the time, a 6 or 6.5 will out perform a .308. got it.
Sweet, thanks for sharing Morgan. Nice shooting for sure.
And for anyone who wants to claim that his placing below those 6/6.5's was due to the shooter and not the caliber... go check out his PRS profile page. Trust me, he shoots a 308 better than you do.
Sweet, thanks for sharing Morgan. Nice shooting for sure.
And for anyone who wants to claim that his placing below those 6/6.5's was due to the shooter and not the caliber... go check out his PRS profile page. Trust me, he shoots a 308 better than you do.
lol sometimes... thanks though...there was 2 or 3 other stages where i was using wind holds in the .4-.6 range and hitting consecutive shots, then had a wind shift that caused a miss or 2 until i corrected and got back on, barely off the edges...once i corrected i continued hitting again with the different wind hold...would a 6/6.5 have stayed within the target? probably...would a 208? maybe...but my 178s didnt lol other than a 50% coyote target at like 450 yds off a tree branch, i dont remember missing a target high or low all day...left and right, just keepin up with the wind
You kind of answered your question by saying you are heavily entrenched in 308 and it works. But if you are looking for distance with velocity, stability, and better BC the 6.5mm is were it is in my opinion. I would definitely do a 24" barrel with break.
My vote goes for 308 also. Here in the California bay area, we don't have any long ranges without driving far. I do shoot further when I travel up north or to the desert, but I always bring a 308. When the 260 cam out, years ago, I did buy one. Fairly recently, I had GA precision build me a 260 on a badger action. Love that rifle also but I seem to go back to the 308.
Now when I take my 12 year old out, he leans more towards the 308 also. I end up shooting the 260 . I would suggest buying a 6.5 down the road and you can enjoy both. They are both awesome and people who shoot love shooting 308 should have a secondary in 6.5.
Now when I take my 12 year old out, he leans more towards the 308 also. I end up shooting the 260 . I would suggest buying a 6.5 down the road and you can enjoy both. They are both awesome and people who shoot love shooting 308 should have a secondary in 6.5.
Why can't you have a relationship with the 6.5-284? Or why couldn't the OP get to know a 6.5CM? I'm not following the logic behind your advice.
I like both. One or more of each is my vote! They both go bang and ring steel. Both can be very accurate. Yes a 308 is a bit more challenging in the wind but I like the challenge some days. The 6.5’s can get boring ha.
Stay with 308, I shoot a 178 eld in my 308 and a 140 eld in my 260 rem. Inside 1200-1300
Yards there ain’t really much difference in dope and even wind holds. The whole 6.5 thing is way over hyped in the short actions. Not to mention barrel life.
Yards there ain’t really much difference in dope and even wind holds. The whole 6.5 thing is way over hyped in the short actions. Not to mention barrel life.
But are you shooting your .308 out to 1760-2000 yards with regular consistency like some do down here with their 6.5s? It would be an interesting comparison.
Sorta just busting your chops, but I’m not lying.
Truth is, as has already been pointed out, we are living in a golden period of Ballistic excellence for long range shooters. Bullet choices, powder choices, caliber choices, action, barrel and chassis/stock choices have never been more available and varied for just about any taste. Pick what you like and adapt it to exactly what you want it to do.
Lol 6.5 creedmoor is not consistent or real world at 2000 yards. Maybe in some odd ball magnum with terrible barrel life. Most people don’t shoot past a mile. And I I was I sure as hell wouldn’t use a 6.5 lol. 2000 meters the 300s or 7mm mag or 338.
I know a few guys that can show you consistency with 6.5 Creedmoor at a mile, in Florida. On a full sized IPSC plate. Sure, not every shot is a hit at that distance, but you would very much be surprised to find out that they impact more often at a mile than most do with the big boomers. No shit!
Anything is easy if you use a big enough gun, but it’s way more fun when using something that most people, apparently yourself included, don’t think is capable.
As far as ‘real world’ goes, that’s an ambiguous term that could mean anything and has no bearing on the subject.
Now, is it a practical use of the caliber for hunting or anything at all except fun range time? Well no, of course not, but was that even the discussion?
Oh, and yes, they shoot and impact regularly at 2000 yards, with the 6.5 Creedmoor also. It’s not rocket science, it simple ballistics.
I’m talking man or medium game sized vitals. Hits within a few rounds. Reasonable wind deflection in adverse conditions. Enough energy to kill medium sized game. I’m a hunter and a target shooter. Sure you and ur buddy’s go go out to the range and shoot in a field at mile, take 20 rounds to get on target and shoot a 24” square plate and have fun. I don’t have any problem with that. But don’t call the 6.5 “good to 2k”. I shoot a .22lr out to 550 yards but I won’t say I can just show up in the field. Range a target at that range, look at my krestrel and hit within 1 or 2 shots. Haha. Even from just a target shooting perspective the creedmoor is barley supersonic to a mile even with the highest bc bullets. 308 is always available, far more components and the performance is a lot closer than the marketing is telling you lol. Plus at closer range the 308 puts game down a lot harder. I’m not trying to start a stupid forum battle with anyone, that’s just my opinion. You can like it or you can disagree, and that’s okay! Opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one…
@fclassparadise - the only problem with the ELD-X for hunting is that it isn't an ELD-M (or a TMK if you're a green tip sort of dude). The ELD-X isn't bad, just a little on the tough side ;-).
To argue that 6.5 is better than .308 or vice versa no matter what is dumb.
It’s a simple fact that as the range increases, the 6.5 ballistic advantages increases.
It’s also a fact that .308 bullets are better than ever and the range where the ballistics difference is significant is getting longer.
For hunting within ~ 600 yards, it’s .308 with the advantage. Especially for elk. For 1000 yard open competition, of course its 6.5 with the advantage, unless it’s 1000 yard F T/R or practice, its .308…
It’s a simple fact that as the range increases, the 6.5 ballistic advantages increases.
It’s also a fact that .308 bullets are better than ever and the range where the ballistics difference is significant is getting longer.
For hunting within ~ 600 yards, it’s .308 with the advantage. Especially for elk. For 1000 yard open competition, of course its 6.5 with the advantage, unless it’s 1000 yard F T/R or practice, its .308…
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