This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

[Porter24]

Been in the market for a new .22 rifle for a while now. I want a bolt action one day then I want another semi. I need ideas feedback reviews or something to help my decision. I am suck between getting a 10/22 .920 or going with the savage mark 2 SV-SR or stepping up to the TR. At the moment I am going on just stock rifles. The aftermarket stocks and optics and triggers all the stuff will be added later. Cost does have some play in it. I am looking at some used 10/22 targets at the moment. Along with the savage SV-SR at a local gun store on sale for $219. I want a accurate shooter for target plinking and bird/varmint hunting. Figured id throw that in there because I know someone will ask what will I want it for.

 

[catronro]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Semi is more fun, Bolt is more accurate (generally speaking, out of the box...there is an exception to every rule).

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

If you want to build/modify the 10/22 is the way to go. If you don't care about modding it out, then the Savage MkII is a fine shooter. I have two.

 

[Porter24]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I plan to get a Tacticool stock. Both have that option. As far as the 10/22 I'll stick with a .920 barrel mabe a flutted. I hear after market triggers is a must for
Improved groups. I have heard many bad things about the sv-sr and tr. that's why I'm leaning to a 10/22 plus you can get just about anything for them for a lot cheaper than savage.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I think Remington listened to my complaining and brought back the 597 LS HB. They also show just a 597HB which looks to be in a synthetic stock. Neither model shows the barrel diameter but the older models were .825 IIRC, not .920. They also have an AAC-SD model with a threaded muzzle. Factory magazines aren't bad either.

Add a $40 Volquartsen target hammer and a scope and you're done. Very good shooters for a lot less than changing out a lot of parts on a 10/22.

 

[blacktaco]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Do you ever plan on running a suppressor in the future? I purchased a .22LR can a while back - and starting slapping parts at my 10/22 to accompany the suppressor.
I wish I just would have went with one of the Savage threaded barrel bolt-actions - they are quieter.

 

[country888]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I'll go with the 10/22. I put a magnum research graphite barrel on mine. Very light weight and shoots great!

 

[ba_50]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Bolt action = simplicity

 

[SmallBoreSnipers]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I personally found the bolt to be more accurate than my semi when I had 22's. I was shooting the Savage MKII, which as LoneWolf said, is a great shooter. The semi was a Mossberg 151. However I have heard nothing but good about the 10/22, and they always seem to perform well at the range in the hands of a shooter that's any good. Plus it's a gun that you can pretty much do anything you want to it. So if you're already leaning that way, I say go for it.

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I have a 10/22 with a Kidd barrel and a Sako Quad (bolt gun) with a Lilja barrel and I can't tell an accuracy difference between the two. Both guns will post MOA or better 10-shot groups at 100 yards on non-windy days with Wolf Match Extra.

 

[predatornut]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I personally could never recommend a 10-22 to anybody. I've had three of them and could never get one to function properly. I tried several different kinds of ammo and they would all jam every 15 rounds or so. These were bone stock carbine models. Go with a bolt action, I am happier with one.

 

[tomcatfan]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I've had 2 Savage Mark II's and the only downside I think is the availability of magazines. There is a lot of after market support for the 10/22 but only Savage makes the mags for thier line. The biggest mag you can get to my knowledge for the savages is a 10 rounder.

With that being said, it is a pretty small downside IMHO. I love my bolt guns, they are what I shoot the most. I would go savage all day.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Most semi-auto 22lr's seem flawed to me. They often have no way to remove the bolt or use a cleaning rod on the barrel with out unscrewing things, and accuracy could be better. Expectantly considering that sub sonic standard velocity 22lr has the best accuracy...

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most semi-auto 22lr's seem flawed to me. They often have no way to remove the bolt or use a cleaning rod on the barrel with out unscrewing things, and accuracy could be better. Expectantly considering that sub sonic standard velocity 22lr has the best accuracy...</div></div>

Cleaning rods and bore brushes are pretty unnecessary with 22s. Even a bore snake is pretty unnecessary.

That said, if you decide you need to clean your 10/22 with a bore brush on a cleaning rod, it is really not too hard if your gun is set up properly. People who care about using cleaning rods drill a hole in the back of the receiver (most of the third-party receivers come with this hole already in place). To use a cleaning rod you unscrew the one screw that holds the action to the stock, twist the bolt handle off the bolt, push two pins out with your fingers to remove the trigger group, slide the recoil buffer out of the receiver, and pull the bolt back and slide it out the bottom of the reciever.

It is exactly three steps more complicated than using a cleaning rod on an AR-15 - removing the one screw that holds the action in the stock, unscrewing the bolt handle (depending on your bolt handle, you can do this with your fingers), and sliding the recoil buffer/bolt stop out of the reciever (again, fingers only). The total added time for these steps is maybe 60 seconds on disassembly and 60 seconds on reassembly.

Given you can go thousands of rounds without cleaning with little or no accuracy degradation on rimfire rifles, I really don't see it as an issue.

I shoot exclusively Wolf Match Extra through my precision 22s (the aforementioned 10/22 that I built and the Sako Quad). It is subsonic through both rifles, very accurate, and totally reliable in the 10/22 as long as I spray the crud out of the receiver about every 1000 rounds.

As I said in my earlier post, I get MOA 10-shot groups at 100 yards out of both rifles and I am not sure how much more accuracy you can expect out of a rimfire rifle that is actually practical to carry around and shoot.

 

[Radar360]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

So many choices.. so little time. Since you already have a semi, go ahead and get the bolt now.

 

[Porter24]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

tough choices. Just got word from a good friend that we are opening up a local range for 100 yard rimfire comps. Now it is even a tougher choice. Looks like this is going to be a money pit now

 

[vixtar]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Well to the couple people who seem to have problems with a 10/22 i'm sorry to hear that. I was out shooting my 10/22 Synthetic, stock. All i added was a cheap scope on it, shooting CCI Blazer ammo i put like 40 rounds into a hole about as big as a 50 cent piece at 25 yards. I know not very impressive on the range but i was testing accuracy and repeat-ability. I didnt save the target and i didnt get pictures, so believe it or not thats your call.

But i am dang happy with my 10/22 and its just stock right now. I cant wait to see what it does once i send the trigger off to get worked on and get a new barrel and stock for it.

 

[GotCox]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

In my experience bolt action is better in every way to semi-auto except for those who like to do "ammo dumps" or shoot very quickly with little to no accuracy. I was 16 once and enjoyed my semi-auto 22. But when i took that same rifle and tried to shoot it accurately and at distances.....it failed to deliver. Also the maintenance and parts replacement for semi-auto's is far more extensive than for bolt guns. And even for those who claim the 10/22 has "great accuracy" i will say they have likely spent twice the amount of money the rifle cost on parts swaping and a ton of time working on it also.

I guess it is all in personal preference. Do you prefer to take your time and put a shot right where you want it, or do you like tearing a target to shreds with lots of lead?

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

I realize this is kind of a cold thread, but I can't resist responding to GotCox.

There are many disciplines of shooting between maximum accuracy with no time constraint and throwing lead downrange as fast as you can pull the trigger. Speed and precision are always a balancing act. One rimfire-specific example is Sportsman's Team Challenge. The rifle event is shot unsupported standing with metal plates in varying shapes and sizes (from about 1" to about 6") and varying distances (from 40 yards to 90 yards). Those are not large targets when shooting unsupported standing and smaller targets and targets farther away are worth more points. The shooter has 90 seconds and 3 loaded ten-round magazines to knock down as many plates as possible. To further add to the time crunch, the shooter is allowed additional loose ammunition and may reload magazines if he empties the three magazines. To be competitive a shooter must try for the smaller and farther away targets and hit most of them firing a little faster than every three seconds (the rifle starts unloaded on a table when the buzzer goes off). Needless to say, no one is shooting bolt guns and the good shooters are putting out sustained, accurate fire.

This is also not to mention the fact that you can always shoot a semiauto rifle just as slowly as a bolt gun. The reverse is not true. If you can't keep your trigger from yanking the trigger as fast as it can, that's your failing, not the gun's.

The following comments on accuracy and modifications are based on my experience with personal ownership of 10/22, Sako, and Anschutz rifles as well as experience with friends' 10/22, Anschutz, CZ, and Savage rifles.

Buying a Kidd barrel ($200) and installing it on your 10/22 (10 minutes) and doing nothing else will give your 10/22 100-yard performance within .1-.2" of Anschutz target rifles costing $2000.

You can get a perfectly acceptable trigger out of your 10/22 for almost nothing and with very little time investment, but if you are interested in the ultimate 10/22 target rifle, buying a Kidd two-stage match trigger ($300) and installing it (5 minutes) will give you a match trigger as good as the triggers on the Anschutz rifles shot in the Olympics.

I'm not a 10/22 zealot, I have several rimfire bolt guns and like them, but your post that semiauto rifles aren't good for anything but mag dumps or that they need huge amounts of time and money to turn in to accurate rifles is ridiculous.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

No doubt, a moderately accurate 22 with decent ammo will drop the 6" STC plate at 100 yards.

Now, take your Kidd barrel equipped 10-22, put some irons on it, take it to an NRA Smallbore match, and shoot the Dewar course of fire (50 and 100 yards), and get back to us on how well that went for ya. Something tells me you're not gonna be within .1" to.2" of the groups the Annies are posting up at 100 yards, meaning you might drop an X or 2 into the 10 ring.

Then, shoot the Meter target at 50 yards with it, the tougher 50 yard target.

All these targets are very cleanable with only the X count in question for Expert and higher class smallbore shooters.

Please, replace your anecdotes with targets and match results and get back to us.

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Fun stuff. I qualified distinguished expert in 4-position smallbore at 50 feet when I was 13 or 14 shooting an Anschutz single shot bolt gun with irons.

I never said that a 10/22 is accurate enough for every task. I said that they can be very accurate rifles and was working to dispel the myth that a 10/22 is only capable of throwing shotgun pattern sized groups on paper at 50 feet.

It looks like the Dewar course of fire is 20 shots each all prone at 100 yards on an A-25, 50 meters on A-26 and 50 yards on A-23. The NRA rulebooks list the target dimensions as 1" X-ring 2" 10-ring for the A-25, .393" X-ring .787" 10-ring for the A-26, and .39" X-ring and .89" 10-ring for the A-23.

My 10/22 is EASILY mechanically accurate enough to put every round into the 10-ring and most of them into the X-ring on every one of those targets. Shooting off a bench at 100 yards with Wolf Match Extra my 10-shot groups are mostly in the .9-1" range with six or seven of the shots in a group about half that size. I haven't shot slung up prone in long enough that I couldn't tell you whether I could do it prone or not but I used to be able to shoot about as well slung up prone as off a bench. No doubt the .1 or .2 MOA loss of performance compared to the very best bolt guns would be a handicap at high levels of competition centering around precision over everything else.

Did you read the OP's post? He is looking for:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Porter24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a accurate shooter for target plinking and bird/varmint hunting.</div></div>

To me, that does not read that he is trying to win national benchrest or smallbore prone matches.

Here are two typical 100 yard targets with Wolf Match Extra out of my 10/22. The groups are not centered because I was testing about ten different varieties of ammo for group size without resighting for each new type of ammo.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

"Buying a Kidd barrel ($200) and installing it on your 10/22 (10 minutes) and doing nothing else will give your 10/22 100-yard performance within .1-.2" of Anschutz target rifles costing $2000."

This quote needs to live in infamy.

I had a conversation just this week with a friend about building a 10-22 over spending $1200 on a 64 MPR. I like a 10-22 and I think they are cool and all that shit, but to suggest that $200 will convert your 10-22 to practically the equal of an Anshutz 54, is simply an affront to common sense and a great deal of empirical data.
I have witnessed a great deal of shooting every month by all kinds of guns as well, and I can assure you that if a 10-22 could do what you say I would see more on the line. You are always welcome to come to the TSC in Conover and show us how its done with a 10-22. Make sure and bring the one with nothing but $200 Kidd barrel upgrade.

To the OP:
You can get a 10-22 to do some really amazing shooting and rival some really high dollar guns, but you will in all likelihood, have spent more than the cost of an extremely accurate Anschutz, whose accuracy will never be bested by your custom 10-22.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

10/22 = Ford Mustang
Anshutz 54 = Corvette Z06

 

[DWood]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

A CZ 452 or 455 Varmint with a yo dave trigger kit ($15) is a pretty sweet 22 LR for about $450.

A Ruger 10/22 is just plain fun in my book. I know you can make them accurate, but spending $1000 to do it seems counterproductive. mine has a Hogue stock and a Tac Sol threaded barrel for my gemtech can.

They are different tools for different purposes in my book. for pure value in an accurate 22 LR, it is hard to beat the CZ. I just need to get mine threaded for the suppressor.

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Buying a Kidd barrel ($200) and installing it on your 10/22 (10 minutes) and doing nothing else will give your 10/22 100-yard performance within .1-.2" of Anschutz target rifles costing $2000."

This quote needs to live in infamy.

I had a conversation just this week with a friend about building a 10-22 over spending $1200 on a 64 MPR. I like a 10-22 and I think they are cool and all that shit, but to suggest that $200 will convert your 10-22 to practically the equal of an Anshutz 54, is simply an affront to common sense and a great deal of empirical data.</div></div>

I never said that $200 will make a 10/22 into the equal of an Anschutz 54. I said that $200 will make a 10/22 into a firearm with MECHANICAL ACCURACY within .1-.2" at 100 yards as good as an Anschutz 54.

The stock 10/22 trigger is not very good. The stock 10/22 stock is not very good. Replacing the trigger with a Kidd trigger gives you a trigger just as good as an Anschutz (for $300) and you can get a well-designed laminated wood stock very well suited for positional shooting for another $150 (I like the "Revolution Extreme" stocks, although they look pretty unconventional they are extremely comfortable to shoot with).

So, if pressed for a hard number, if you are counting, I would say that it takes about $650 to get to a 10/22 which is quite close to an Anschutz in accuracy and shootability. I am guilty of switching back and forth between talking purely about accuracy (requiring only a barrel swap) and the entire shooting process (requiring also trigger work and a new stock) without, apparently, making it clear enough that I was talking about two different things. After $650 goes in to your 10/22, the Anschutz will be a little more accurate and the 10/22 will be a semi-auto that uses cheaper, more reliable magazines (at least so it seems - the Anschutz shooters I hang out with are endlessly fussing with their mags and bitching about how expensive they are).

This does not take into account that for some shooting disciplines you must use iron sights and as far as I know there are not any iron sight systems available for the 10/22 which even come close to matching Anschutz' really excellent micrometer match sights, but the shooting disciplines I compete in allow optics and scopes are much more versatile on a general-purpose rifle than a peep sight with a front aperture which must be adjusted to be visually just a bit larger than your target's bullseye for maximum precision.

This also does not take into account that Anschutz rifles are beautiful works of precision craftsmanship and typically have really pretty wood stocks, but aesthetics don't really have much to do with how well a gun shoots.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

i like the bolt for several reasons

1. less chance of a malfunction.
2. better mimics my bigger rifles.
3. alot less things that can go wrong.
4. in my state (Pa.) only manual operated rifles are legal to hunt with.
5. using subsonic or super subsonic / shorts etc. doesn't stop the next round from cycling (which happens with semi's.
6. many smallbore competitions don't allow semi's.

i like semi's, 10/22 in particular, for several reasons:

1. the cheap dust maker factor - lots of fun economic rapid fire.
2. ability to set the rifle as a CQB styled compact rifle
3. ability to easily change out modifications and performance upgrades
4. ability to easily set up the rifle as a bench queen.


both has it's advantages and disadvantages, i'm more partial to a bolt for target and hunting.

the 10/22 is great for tinkering. but as mentioned before, tinkering adds up.

with all other things being equal, taking out the accessory factor, a bone stock 10/22 vs. a savage mk II SV-SR = a savage mk II SV SR.

if you think you may putting $ into further accurizing the 10/22, buy a CZ bolt now.

 

[GotCox]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Tamatoe tomatoe...Some peoples version of accuracy is hitting 12" plates, some is 1/8" groups. either way. Pick a gun that gives you the accuracy you need and enjoy the shooting. I will say that i believe that for any given task you are better off having a rifle capable of the highest level of accuracy you can get. Then it comes down to your ability as a shooter. Having a rifle be too accurate..... just doesn't happen. lol

 

[maladat]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say that i believe that for any given task you are better off having a rifle capable of the highest level of accuracy you can get. Then it comes down to your ability as a shooter. Having a rifle be too accurate..... just doesn't happen. lol</div></div>

I won't argue with any of that - subject to the rifle being suitable to your task and budget.

 

[hatidua]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

After years (decades) of shooting bolt-action .22's, I finally built an uppity 10/22 last year with all the trimmings. Went to the range, threaded the can on, knew within three shots that I wouldn't own it a week later. I only shoot .22 suppressed and the action noise on a semi-auto drove me nuts. Bolt for me.

 

[shaman]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

10/22, the r700 of rimfires. BUy it, remove everything, build it back up, and have a great rifle. Like buying a honda civic, swapping the engine, then turboing it. You can beat a vette, but you still drive a civic.

If you want a 10/22, then consider wisely how much you are going to spend. A $225 Mk2 will need a pen spring, or a RB trigger. 10/22 will be $200-up, and will need what? Barrel, trigger group, and stock. You are now at $800-1000 for your build, and you could have bought 4 bolts for the same price.

Do you have kids? One child shooting is much less fun than both children shooting. Considering I can have a MK2 in .22lR, and a MK2 in .17hm2 for the price of an "accurate" 10/22, the 10/22s i have have taken a backseat in the safe since I hit puberty. I did buy a bolt buffer and VQ parts when I had a gift card to try to make the 10/17 more accurate. Even have an extra .17hm2 MK2 waiting to get sold. .22LR for fun and quiet, .17hm2 for point and shoot hunting.

 

[PRDRIVER]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

To make the decision of Semi or Auto, really depends on the amount of money you want to spend and what you plan on using the rifle for.

The Savage TR and FV rifles are great out of the box and are very hard to beat for the money. Sure they are not an Anschutz, but they are great shooters and the FV-SR can be had for nearly the price of a stock 10/22.

I have been a huge fan of 10/22 rifles since I got my first one nearly 20 years ago. If you were going to build up a 10/22, I would recommend going with high end action (Kidd, Tactical Solutions, etc.) and build it from the ground up. This will put you near the $1,000 mark.

I have a built up 10/22 and a Sako Quad. I honestly find myself shooting the Quad more than the 10/22 since I purchased a threaded barrel for it. Suppressed bolt action 22 rifles are ridiculously quiet. However, my 10/22 still is my go to 22 for rabbit hunting.

It all really comes down to your uses and budget. In reality, if you hang around on this site very long, you will find a way to convince yourself that you need both.

 

[Tactical22]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

Both?

Besides, .22s aren't even guns, they are household appliances like brooms and blenders. This argument is like Glock vs 1911, AR vs AK, Coke vs Pepsi (which is to say, the right choice is obvious - 1911, AR, Coke

) A 10/22 and a Savage Mk. II fill different roles. Figure out what role you want the gun to fill and what configuration you will use them in, and then by one of each to fill each role

 

[Porter24]

Re: This could get interesting. Bolt vs Semi .22 rifle

This thread got more interesting than I anticipated.