This rifle eats scopes!

[smittygs22]

Good morning fellow pro's. Im a long time lurker here, I shoot a ton, but dont post alot. I recently got into a new project with my brother's bolt gun. It's a standard Ruger 77mkIIv in .220 swift, and I (we) have had some issues that I hope somebody can shed some light on.

First off, this rifle is near new, maybe 300 rounds down range. It has never grouped real tight. I've loaded up I don't know how many different load combinations for it, and it won't do any better than 2 inches at 100, no matter what. Both of my 700's, 308 and 300wm, shoot about 1/2 moa, all day long, at any distance.

Anyway, the real issue is this: we can't keep a scope on this thing . The rifle was bought new with a Redfield variable to go with it. The Redfield lasted maybe 200 rounds. I then put a Leupold VarixIII tactical on it. I had this scope on my 308 for years, with no issues what-so-ever. On the 220, it went less than a hundred rounds. The .220 Swift is hardly a violent round, it won't rattle fillings or anything. Does anybody have an idea why the scopes are going south? I have never encountered anything like this, so I'm at a loss as to what the issue, or issues could be.

Now then, my brother wants to start shooting f-class stuff with this rifle, so we are going to re-barrel it to something heavier that will go with the .473 bolt face.

My next issue is the barrel. Im having a hard time finding a barrel maker that lists the Ruger as an accepted action that they will do barrels for. Can any Ruger afficionado's out there give me an insight in where to turn?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

you would be better off to sell it and start over with different action in my opinion. You would have to change out the bottom metal as well. the 220 swift has a staggered feed for the semi-rimmed design of the cartridge and the bm is usually slanted back to account for this. changing calibers might affect the feeding. I am not a gunsmith, so just a guess.

as far as the scope issues, are you using Ruger's supplied rings ? tell us more....

Most 220 swifts I have shot love 4064 and 55 grain bullets.. what have you tried ?

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

The Ruger is a basic Mauser style action. Any gun smith that can work on Mausers can work on yours. Having said that, the Ruger action is not widely accepted as a "build base". Not saying it can't be done, just that with the vast amount of options for the R700 and its clones, it just makes logistics much easier to go that route. I have buddy here in Oklahoma who slapped new PacNor bbls on a couple Ruger actions he had, and now they live life as wicked prairie dog exterminating machines in Tac 20.

It can be done, but you may have to hunt a little harder for stocks, triggers, scope bases etc

I asked this exact same question a month or so ago, so believe me, I feel your pain. I ended up keeping my Mk II in 22-250 and bought an older R700 for my build.

Best of luck.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smittygs22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anybody have an idea why the scopes are going south?</div></div>

Two bad scopes maybe?

It's not outside of the realm of possibility that you got two defective scopes. Try something with a little better reputation for reliability.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Tweeked receiver? Maybe a bad scope base not sitting right? Get a set of scope alignment bars and see if the centers lign up. Could be something causing the scope not sitting right, causing the scope to be stressed. Doesnt take much more than recoil to kncok something out of play. Also, pull the action from the stock, and make sure there isnt any debris, bad bedding job stressing the action can do it too. If its been bedded, grind it out and do it over correctly. Make sure the action screws are torqued to spec.

You say near new, does that mean bought used? Some sell a rifle with problems but dont tell about them so they get their money back. Your brother may have inherited their problems. Also, check the crown for damage, that can cause accuracy issues. Last ruger m77 I shot was a .243 and it held .75 all day with box ammo. I hear about the same with others.

 

[jbell]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I have to agree with the others here. If accuracy is your goal the Ruger action is not the best. I think it impart has to do with how the action mounts in to the stock with the front action screw being angled. I would insure you are tightning the front screw first and then the rear, and play around with the torque using a torque wrench and recording your results. I have only seen a very few Rugers that would hold sub MOA. The factory barrels are hammer forged and usually pretty good but if the action is bouncing around in the stock the accuracy will be bad.

There are plenty of factory rifles out there that will do the job for an entry level match rifle. You just have to evaluate your budget. With that being said it would be better in the long run to sell the Ruger and start over even if that means you have to take a loss on it. Dont think I am dumping on your rifle these are just my honest opinions.

Good luck!

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

The rifle was bought new, I say near new because it's 14 years old (my bro doesnt shoot near as much as the rest of us do).

As far as loads go, Ive thrown smk's, amax's, bergers, ballistic tips, in weights from 52 to 69. 4064, 4895, RL15, varget, 4350, 4831 with the heavies. For primers, I've used standard winchesters, br2's, and 210m's.

I have been using the standard Ruger rings that were supplied with the rifle to go with the integral mounts cast into the reciever. I took the rifle apart to check for any kind of crud down in the stock, it's clean. This rifle has never been bedded however, that may tighten things up a bit.

My main concern is scope life. My Leupold that lived on my 08 for years was stone solid, until I put it on the 220. I may try one of my Super Snipers from one of my 700's. I've got the 10x on the 08, and the 20x on the 300. They may be cheap scopes, but they're tough as nails. If I do this, I'll have to track down some Ruger specific rings in 30mm. The scopes that died on this thing were 1 inchers.

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I'll never think that any of you are dumping on this rifle. There are alot of fellow shooters on here that know a hell of alot more than I do. I respect anyones knowledge, opinions, and offers for solutions. THANK YOU ALL!

 

[Papagallos]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Smitty,

I have a Remington 40X in .220 Swift. I recently did some load development for it and it loved 37.1 grains of RL-15.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2862138&page=1

 

[Wade]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

In my personal experience ruger's supplied rings are often VERY badly out of alignment. Do the scopes have ugly ring mark when they come off? Have you installed the known good scope back on another gun to see if it started working again?

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I'll give the RL15 another go for sure. My 308 absolutely loves that stuff!

I havent tried the Leupold on the 308 again to see if its working ok. I'll have to try it to see if its indeed the scopes getting killed, or something else. The scopes that quit didnt have any creases or scratches from the rings or anything. But that doesnt mean that there's not some wacky side torque being put on them though.

 

[gebhardt02]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Just so we get a clear picture, what exactly is going on with the scopes that you have determined that they have gone south?
Sight picture go from clear to fuzzy, zero not holding, or what?

Geb

 

[JGorski]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smittygs22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good morning fellow pro's. Im a long time lurker here, I shoot a ton, but dont post alot. I recently got into a new project with my brother's bolt gun. It's a standard Ruger 77mkIIv in .220 swift, and I (we) have had some issues that I hope somebody can shed some light on.

First off, this rifle is near new, maybe 300 rounds down range. It has never grouped real tight. I've loaded up I don't know how many different load combinations for it, and it won't do any better than 2 inches at 100, no matter what. Both of my 700's, 308 and 300wm, shoot about 1/2 moa, all day long, at any distance.

Anyway, the real issue is this: we can't keep a scope on this thing . The rifle was bought new with a Redfield variable to go with it. The Redfield lasted maybe 200 rounds. I then put a Leupold VarixIII tactical on it. I had this scope on my 308 for years, with no issues what-so-ever. On the 220, it went less than a hundred rounds. The .220 Swift is hardly a violent round, it won't rattle fillings or anything. Does anybody have an idea why the scopes are going south? I have never encountered anything like this, so I'm at a loss as to what the issue, or issues could be.

Now then, my brother wants to start shooting f-class stuff with this rifle, so we are going to re-barrel it to something heavier that will go with the .473 bolt face.

My next issue is the barrel. Im having a hard time finding a barrel maker that lists the Ruger as an accepted action that they will do barrels for. Can any Ruger afficionado's out there give me an insight in where to turn?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!
Well, your 308 is the culprit that loosened things up to begin with.



</div></div>

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

When the scopes have quit, it was an all of a sudden thing. Starting out, everything is good, putting shots more or less where I want them, then, I cant even keep it on paper. Poof, no accuracy, or consistency at all. No changes to the load, to the scope, the distance, nothing. It's happened twice now.

 

[former naval person]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

As a comment on the Ruger action...some years ago the US Palma team was offered a set of rifles to be built by Ruger to use in the Palma matches. Sort of a "publicity stunt" effort. The accepted the offer and after the rifles were delivered made every effort to use them...acceptable accuracy for the matches was not attainable and they wound up using the previous year's rifles. Seemingly, the precision desired was not attainable with the platform. I can't verify the above, but maybe someone into the Palma game can.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Ruger isn't something you hear a lot around here. Probably for good reason.

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Agreed. I've been in this game for a while too, Ruger just isnt spoken of, or raved about.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

From the sounds of your issue I'd be willing to get the issue is misalignment of the rings. If this is the case it can also account for your accuracy problems. You have to understand that such misalignment can cause a great deal of stress on the receiver thus causing many problems including the ones you describe.

As for using the Ruger rifle for an F-class rig I will say you are better off getting a new rifle. That receiver was never designed for that purpose and while you might be able to it setup well you are going to spend a great deal more money then if you build a rifle on a Remington or Savage receiver.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

This may come off as a stupid question but I have to ask it:

Are you absolutely CERTAIN you have the rings on in the correct order? There IS a front ring and rear ring. They are not the same height.

If the rings are in the correct order, a lapping bar might be in order.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I have a Ruger MK II that was built by Terry Cross of KMW fame. When I bought the rifle from a gent on another site, I was so excited I posted a pic of it and got downright giddy. It was not long before Mr. Cross posted that I "had the only Ruger that will ever leave [his] shop." He mentioned "funny angles." I assume he was referring to, among other things, the way the recoil lug slopes back at an angle instead of going perpendicular to the action.

That said, the gun shoots bitty groups with its Kreiger barrel.

There are better actions to work with for a custom build. I had a factory Ruger Varmint in .25/06. I got it down to .75", called it good and sold it. Hard to get emotional about factory Rugers.

 

[Kells81]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smittygs22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When the scopes have quit, it was an all of a sudden thing. Starting out, everything is good, putting shots more or less where I want them, then, I cant even keep it on paper. Poof, no accuracy, or consistency at all. No changes to the load, to the scope, the distance, nothing. It's happened twice now. </div></div>

How many rounds down when it walks off the paper? I have a savage 243 that is solid for 5 rounds and anything after that it may as well be hitch hiking its so far gone.

It honestly sounds like something coming loose though.

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I realize there is a "pressure point" in the forend of Ruger stocks. I free float mine. Even if you leave the stock as is, your barrel could be rubbing the stock.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Have an older Ruger M-77V in .308 that shoots as tight as a virgin's arse. I've shot 3 different scopes on it without any issue.

Just throwing something in the dark, I'm guessing bases/rings.

 

[Remoah]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I'm running a M77/II in .30-06. Tasco world class scope. It groups under 2.5MOA all day long, which, for a hunting rifle, is more than adequate.

If you're looking for precision, Ruger is not where i'd look. Remington, Savage, Howa and Tikka all do rifles in the same range or cheaper, and they're all just as reliable and more accurate.

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

When the accuracy went wacky this time, the first thing I did while still at the range was put wrenches on everything to make sure nothing was loose. I checked action to stock, rings to reciever, and rings to scope. All were tight.

I know there is a difference in the rings being in the right place, the rear ring is much taller than the front, they'll only go on 1 way.

When the scope went, we were on our second range session, with 84 rounds fired according to the shot log.

I just checked the free float on the barrel, 3 sheets of paper will go all the way to the reciever. No contact.

 

[Longshot38]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Your missing the point what we are saying has nothing to do with free floated barrels or correctly torqued screws. Ring alignment comes from the machine work used during construction. If the rings are in poor alignment then it can cause stress on the receiver which will affect accuracy and stress on the scope with can do some real damage.

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Longshot, my last post was actually 3 replies to previous posts.

Buffybuster mentioned that there is definitely a diff in the rings-specific front and rear pieces.

Poke mentioned the possibility of something coming loose.

And Patriotoutlaw mentioned the possibility of a tight spot in the channel.

Not missing any points. I realize this could be an alignment issue between the reciever, the rings, and the scope.

Absolutely no dis-respect intended.

 

[Smith44699]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may come off as a stupid question but I have to ask it:

Are you absolutely CERTAIN you have the rings on in the correct order? There IS a front ring and rear ring. They are not the same height.

If the rings are in the correct order, a lapping bar might be in order.</div></div>


+1. I have shot and own several rugers. This one suggestion here is a good starting point. Even if Ruger sent the rings with it. They still could be the wrong ones. The rear has to be taller. If buying/trying new rings. I recommend the Burris rings with the plastic inserts. Especially for the Ruger. If the action was machined a little off from side to side. These will take care of that also. 70 bucks but well worth it for the Ruger. My .02.

 

[smittygs22]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Good idea about the Burris rings. I'll give those a go for sure.

 

[former naval person]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Having owned and disposed of quite a few Ruger rifles over the years...I suggest, sincerely, that you sell the rifle and get either a Savage or Remington for the precision work you are contemplating. The Rugers are tough, no doubt, but tolerances vary due to the casting processes. Check your scopes of course, but my long term satisfaction has been iffy with the Rugers. JMHO

 

[ratton]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Hart barrels will rebarrel your Ruger. They do great work.

 

[mnhntr]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

I had a Ruger M77 that would shoot shotgun patterns instead of groups. It was chambered in 30-06 and I had no scope issues it would not shoot. I have not bought a Ruger rifle since.

 

[BigBlue&Goldie]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Check out the gunsmithing section, there is a thread going about Rugers right now.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: This rifle eats scopes!

Your twist rate is a 1:14, any bullet over 55 grains is a gamble as to it stabilizing.
Any bullet over 60 is not going to stabilize. If you have the ruger integral rings
and didn't lap them I can see your scopes being damaged. I have had to chuck my
lapping bar in a drill and spend an hour or more on every set of ruger rings I have
ever mounted. The other thing I have seen is the receiver tearing upward on the
rt front ring mount and leaving the scope shifting around. Screwing down a Weaver
rail is the cure if you have that type of rings.