Thoughts on 22-250AI Fast Twist?

[Smokin250]

Been kicking idea of building a 22-250AI in a 7" or 8" twist for quite some time. I have no real need for it other than I want it.

I would like to shoot 75-90 gr VLD's or Sierras in the 3200 FPS area. AI...? Because, brass life rocks and I want it. I have a 700 action I could use, or a savage. I'd like to use my 700 action, but im not set in stone on anything.

My questions are"

- What kind of barrel like do people see out of these fast 22's? I read a lot that they burn up throats?
- What powders do most use? I use 4064 now for my 22-250s with 50gr noslers.
- What OAL are people using with the heavier bullets in 22-250ai?
- Lapua Brass? Id assume yes, but are there other options with equal quality?
- Would an 8" stabilize a 90gr VLD? Would 7" or 8" be best all around?
- Am I off in velocity?
- Anything else im missing...?

Thanks
Brian

 

[BoilerUP]

You're gonna need a 1:7 for 90gr VLDs. I run them at 2750fps from a 22" 223AI with Varget (2950 with 80gr A-Max and 8208XBR), so I would think a 22-250AI with 26" barrel would get you 3300ish with 80gr VLD/Amax and 3100-3200ish with 90gr VLDs.

Barrel life probably not great, maybe 1500-2000 depending on your accuracy requirement and just how hard you push.

 

[Smokin250]

How do the 90's perform in your 223AI? And what OAL do you run?

 

[seven mm]

75 Amax's, 24" barrel, 3500 fps with H4831

 

[BoilerUP]

How do the 90's perform in your 223AI? And what OAL do you run?

They shoot very well, though at the typical ranges I shoot (650yd and in) I don't see a HUGE benefit of them over the 80gr A-Max. They do hit steel quite a bit harder at that range, however.

My freebore is quite short for 90s at 0.061", but I seat them to 2.49" and they work great. I was kind of surprised at the velocity I got with them and Varget over the chronograph, but sure enough drops at 300 and 650 and the Litz G7 trued the velocity to 2750.

 

[Smokin250]

Wow! How many gr of varget?

 

[BoilerUP]

Wow! How many gr of varget?

24.9gr

 

[Smokin250]

And no pressure?

 

[BoilerUP]

And no pressure?

None whatsoever.

More details in the link in my signature line.

 

[Engine 22]

I run my .22-250AI with a 26" 1:8 Bartlein. 75Amax at 3375 using RL15. I would guess the 80s would be gtg, but not the 90s.
I'd suggest using an old take-off barrel to fireform your brass, any .224 barrel should work fine. Send it in with your parts and have it rechambered to match your custom barrel. Saves a lot of life on the good one.

.22-250AI= freakin' laser!

 

[Smokin250]

What kind of barrel life are you seeing?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Why not do a .22 Dasher? Less powder, same performance, way better brass/brass life, more accurate.

 

[Engine 22]

What kind of barrel life are you seeing?

I'm at only 300+/- rounds on mine to date, but I expect to get 1500- 2000 out of it. I built it for a coyotes with some PD shooting here and there, sadly PDs have been wiped out in my area :-/
Shooting it suppressed is tits!

 

[Smokin250]

I have no reason for wanting a 22-250ai opposed to others. I just was thinking of some form of heavy 22 bullet with some speed. And I have other 22-250s. I'm just thinking barrel life will be awful.

 

[missed]

I have a 8" twist non AI that I love. I may AI it one of these days.

 

[CharlieNC]

With 22 cal you are very limited to relatively low BC bullets vs stepping up to the next larger cal. Depends on what you need/want.

 

[Smokin250]

There is no need at all. I have a 260ai now that I shoot out to 1000. And others for varmint... Its more just because...something I have wanted for while. I just want to weigh out the options before thinking any further. Barrel life is my main concern....which with speed comes death of barrels....so I know I most likely won't like the answer.

 

[thespecialist]

With 22 cal you are very limited to relatively low BC bullets vs stepping up to the next larger cal. Depends on what you need/want.

The (advertised) BC of the 90gr VLD's is .551. Launching that at 3,100+fps is nothing to sneeze at.

OP, I'd throat it for the 90's and hang a 7 twist barrel on it if it were mine. It'd make one hell of a LR critter-gitter.

 

[calling4life]

dj

The (advertised) BC of the 90gr VLD's is .551. Launching that at 3,100+fps is nothing to sneeze at.

OP, I'd throat it for the 90's and hang a 7 twist barrel on it if it were mine. It'd make one hell of a LR critter-gitter.

This, run the numbers of the 90vld at 3150 vs a .243 115dtac at 3150, or the 105 @ 3300'ish.

Low recoil... That 260 is gonna die of old age waiting for you to take it back out of the safe.

 

[AIS]

gap just did me a 250 reg with a 24 inch 8 twist barrel, and shootin 75 vlds at 3200 is no deal and fun!! only had it for couple weeks, but I feel it was a wise build for these flat windy SWK days! order up the AI!!! doooooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttt!!! and tell us all about it!!!

 

[OKbow87]

Fast 22's are fun. I have had a couple of 22-243 through the years and one will always be my main coyote rifle. In my opinion the 80 amax is king in these guns. They have a higher bc than the Berger 80 vld, have a serious splat factor on critters, and are way cheaper when available.

If it were a comp gun I would consider the 90 vld. They might warrant the price then.

 

[Geno C.]

Another simple reason to go with it over a 6 or 6.5 mm is for someone recoil shy or just starting shooting. Like my 7 year old

 

[Geno C.]

Why not do a .22 Dasher? Less powder, same performance, way better brass/brass life, more accurate.

Not to discount the dasher or a br but, Lapua make 22-250 brass so where are you getting better brass? Better case life? Unlikely if you're trying to push them both hard. You might make an argument for more accurate but I bet you'd be hard pressed to show any substantial gains in accuracy one over the other.

Only reason I went with the 250ai over a br is because I got a really good deal on dies as fate would have it.

 

[Smokin250]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wherei will have issues is in the throat?? Is that correct? 3200ish is fast but not as fast as what the rest of my 22-250s shoot. So I'm guessing it has the DL with higher pressure of the heavier bullets coming out that fast? Forgive my ignorance here...

 

[Kjones9]

I just built a 22x47 with an 1-8 twist shooting 80 smk and 80 Amax. I'm getting 3300 with both bullets. Shot almost 100 rounds through it so far. I'm not sure on barrel life but it sure is fun. The brass will be more expensive but it's lapua and should last. I have a 6x47 and building a 6.5 so it made more sense to use the x47


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[Forgetful Coyote]

Not to discount the dasher or a br but, Lapua make 22-250 brass so where are you getting better brass? Better case life? Unlikely if you're trying to push them both hard. You might make an argument for more accurate but I bet you'd be hard pressed to show any substantial gains in accuracy one over the other.

Only reason I went with the 250ai over a br is because I got a really good deal on dies as fate would have it.

I doubt any large primer case will ever be as good as most any of the Lapua small primer cases. More meat in the case head, primer pockets stay tight longer at equal pressures.

Ie theres PPC`s out there getting 40 shots or more for a single case at top pressure levels.

 

[fireguyty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMrTnnRtDI

This was at SHOT this last year. I was helping my buddy Byron demo his Delta P Suppressors for some guys who didn't know much about long range.

Mine is just a straight 22-250, no fancy AI. It is 22" 1-8 twist. I wanted to run 80 A-max but can't find em so I run 80 SMK. Pushes 80's to 3300 easily with Superformance, but I went with 36.2 of H4350 instead at about 3100 so that I could shoot it in our local monthly. I did shoot some 90's just to see if it would stabilize and it did, however, they were 90 SMK's which I believe to be shorter than the 90 VLD.

Real fun to shoot suppressed. I tried to do subs with Trailboss. Shot a legit 1 foot group that were all perfectly key holed sideways!

Ty

 

[4000fps]

I'd go standard 22-250 if I could do it over. Fire forming sucks and does nothing but waste barrel life, especially on a short lived barrel due to a hot rod round.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I just built a 22x47 with an 1-8 twist shooting 80 smk and 80 Amax. I'm getting 3300 with both bullets. Shot almost 100 rounds through it so far. I'm not sure on barrel life but it sure is fun. The brass will be more expensive but it's lapua and should last. I have a 6x47 and building a 6.5 so it made more sense to use the x47


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Very nice, I bet thats a fun round. What kinda 5-shot groups are you getting on average with it? And what powder are you using?

 

[Kjones9]

I'm using 37 grains of H4350. Its awesome to shoot

 

[hollowoutadime]

I shoot a 220 swift, a bit faster than a 22-250 - but not by much. Mine is a much slower 1:14 twist, stabilizes 52-55 gr. rounds. Doesn't like 60 gr. It shoots very tight groups. I blistered a pile of prairie dogs (> 150) with it this past week using 37.0 gr 4064 with VMax bullets. In sub-500 yd shooting, there probably isn't a better round. Factory brass was hard to find for about a year, but I came across 800 pcs of new Remington brass.

I also took a .260 AI using a light 85gr #1700 Sierra Varmint bullet. It did well, didn't miss, but didn't deliver quite the terminal performance of the hot .220

I think any of the hot 22-250 or AI versions, or 220 swift will all do well - 3031, Varget, and 4064 seem to be good powders. I prefer the slower twists and lighter fragmenting bullets.

 

[BoilerUP]

Mine is just a straight 22-250, no fancy AI. It is 22" 1-8 twist. I wanted to run 80 A-max but can't find em so I run 80 SMK. Pushes 80's to 3300 easily with Superformance, but I went with 36.2 of H4350 instead at about 3100 so that I could shoot it in our local monthly. I did shoot some 90's just to see if it would stabilize and it did, however, they were 90 SMK's which I believe to be shorter than the 90 VLD.

Any idea what your freebore is?

 

[Geno C.]

I doubt any large primer case will ever be as good as most any of the Lapua small primer cases. More meat in the case head, primer pockets stay tight longer at equal pressures.

Ie theres PPC`s out there getting 40 shots or more for a single case at top pressure levels.

I'll have to test the large vs small primer. I have some small primer 308 brass and some large primer that I'll shoot back to back at the same velocity and see which lasts longer

 

[fireguyty]

Any idea what your freebore is?

When measured from the ogive, the 90 SMK was hitting the lands at 2.157"

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I'll have to test the large vs small primer. I have some small primer 308 brass and some large primer that I'll shoot back to back at the same velocity and see which lasts longer

Nice. One thing Ive been wanting to do for a while now is a .260 PALMA small primer. Should see better ES/SD and vertical, according to all the comp shooters Ive talked to that`ve tried the .308 PALMA brass.

 

[Geno C.]

Better yet! I have a 260 that I enjoy shooting more than the 308 anyway. I'll just neck down a few of both and have at it this winter. 43.5gr of H4350 under 140 Amax is a pretty stout load to start with I think

 

[Smokin250]

Does anyone have documented barrel life?

 

[Smokin250]

Anyone?

 

[SUIScide]

I haven't shot my 8 twist 22-250 enough to find out about its life, but I love it with 80 grain Amaxes! That said, wouldn't barrel life be longer than in a standard 22-250 shooting light bullets? I mean with 80 grain bullets you use less of a slower powder. That should equate to lower temperature in the throat and decrease erosion, right? If Hornady would start making the eighties again I'd shoot it more , but I don't want to use up too much of my stash!

 

[missed]

Anyone?

I have 1436 down on mine and still 1/2"

 

[Kjones9]

I have 75 rounds through my 22x47 so can't comment on barrel life. Hoping to get 2000

 

[Smokin250]

1400 was more than I was expecting to hear. What powder bullet combo you running?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Better yet! I have a 260 that I enjoy shooting more than the 308 anyway. I'll just neck down a few of both and have at it this winter. 43.5gr of H4350 under 140 Amax is a pretty stout load to start with I think

Awesome. You absolutely have to report back with results sir.

This is on the theoretical side of things, but with a smaller primer/flash hole, the primer will contribute less to the peak pressure so in theory you should be able to up the charge a bit and get some more mv. Along with that, the brass should handle more pressure before primer pockets loosen up, or you should get more firings per case at the same pressure.

Notice I said "should". It doesnt "have" to work out that way. As always work up slowly though and Id be willing to bet the results show at least a little bit of an improvement in brass life or velocity capability. Another thing, Lapua has cautioned that you may get inconsistent ignition issues in cold/freezing weather. Powders much slower than H4350 or so should also be avoided I`d imagine.

Thanks for trying though sir. Ive been looking and looking for people that have necked down .308 PALMA brass and the results they got with it before trying it myself.

 

[Smokin250]

Brass life I can understand with higher pressure, but im having a little bit of trouble understanding the barrel life part? As stated by someone else here, if my 1-14 shoots 50s out to 3800ish then why does a 80gr going 3200ish burn barrels faster? Or does it?

A buddy of mine explained it like this too me. Heavy bullet coming out of a smaller hole has more concentrated heat behind it than a lighter bullet? Am I even close to understanding the issue here?

 

[BoilerUP]

Thoughts on 22-250AI Fast Twist?

Think less about sheer velocity, and more about heat and pressure.

A heavier bullet may use fewer grains of slower burning powder to achieve less velocity...but the actual pressure generated may be the same or more, and pressure creates heat, and heat kills barrels.

Firing schedule (5 rounds a minute vs. 1 round a minute) has a significant impact on barrel life too, because heat. That's why 22-250s on a dog town slinging 40s at 4000ish as quick as targets present themselves get worn out so fast.

 

[Smokin250]

So realistically is im not out burning down the woods with it I would be able to see better barrel life? Honestly I may hunt with it a little, but I would probably just play around at the 1000 yd steel matches we shoot. So getting hot would not be a normal thing.

 

[BoilerUP]

So realistically is im not out burning down the woods with it I would be able to see better barrel life? Honestly I may hunt with it a little, but I would probably just play around at the 1000 yd steel matches we shoot. So getting hot would not be a normal thing.

Better? Yes, better barrel life than shooting long, fast strings.

Good? No, because physics.

 

[Smokin250]

Im torn what to do. I just read through your build thread for your 223AI, which I believe is exactly what my buddy is going to do. But I cant get the idea out of my head of a fast tiwst 22-250. but a 223AI would be a BLAST

 

[BoilerUP]

If you've got a Savage, a fast twist 22-250 (or 22-250AI) barrel can be yours for less than $200 from Apache Gun Works...

 

[Smokin250]

I have a stevens 200 I picked up cheap for this purpose. I wanted to do a "budget build" After spending the kind of money I did on my 260 to have it built with all the right things...I want to see what I can do with less expensive parts and pieces put together by me.

How many rds down barrel? specs?