Thoughts on 30 Nosler?

[cumminsdsl]

New member here, long time viewer though. My primary rifle is 6.5 creedmoor howa chassis rifle. I have had good results with it out to 1200yds using 140/147 Hornady match ammo. Just started hand loading but due to weather I have not had a chance to do any testing yet.

I recently acquired a Remington 700 police edition in 7mm rem mag. I sold the factory stock, and have someone that is interested in the barrel, which will leave me with a basically free Remington long action. The barrel and action is currently sitting in a Mcrees Precision G7 chassis, I am looking to build it into something that will be good for target only 1200 yds - 1 mile. Originally I planned on going with a 300 win mag Rem/Age style barrel from Criterion or Mcgowen Precision. After doing some further research, and seeing the wide variety of options, I started to think maybe this isn't the best choice. I would like to stay away from a belted case and I would also like to avoid the wildcat rounds because I think that might be beyond my reloading skill level at the moment.

I'm kind of leaning towards going with a 30 Nosler now. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts and experience are. The only real negative I am seeing is the high cost and possible limited availability of brass. Just want to make sure this is the best option before I make the investment in a new barrel, dies, etc.

 

[surgeon260]

What made you think that 300 Win Mag is not a good choice? It is one of the most popular magnum cartridges in the world and is extremely capable, belt be damned. Components are readily available. Get a collet die and that belt is a non issue.

I would look at the 28 Nosler instead of the 30. With the new heavy bullets like the 195 Berger and 197 Sierra, it will outperform the 30 at long range in every way except energy, and do it with less recoil.

I understand the aversion to wildcats; they definitely can seem overwhelming when you are just starting to reload. But reloading for wildcats is not overly complicated. The hardest part is getting custom dies, which requires having your gunsmith send a reamer print to a die maker like Whidden. Not a big deal. Jam your bullets a little when fireforming brass to control headspace, and after that you just shoulder bump and neck size like any other round. That's it. Once you are comfortable with wildcats, the world is your oyster.

 

[cumminsdsl]

I don't think that the win mag is a bad choice, it is what I wanted when I was using shelf ammo. After researching and talking to people about reloading the belted cases seemed to be a common complaint. I guess it is not a deal breaker, it just kind of turned me off. Maybe I need to look into it more or talk to some people with more first hand experience with it?

 

[surgeon260]

What complaints have you heard? The only potential issue with belted cases is that a standard body die won't resize the area just above the belt. All you need to address that issue is a Larry Willis collet die. I have 7RM brass with 5+ reloads and they are going strong. Unbelted cases are fashionable, but there is nothing wrong with belted cases.

 

[steve123]

The LW die is not only an extra expense but it's also an extra step in the sizing process which I found to be annoying. Why bother with it if you don't have to.

You're on the right track with the 30 Nosler vs 300WM. 28N is cool too but it's a barrel burner. I still might go with it anyway.

 

[LastShot300]

What complaints have you heard? The only potential issue with belted cases is that a standard body die won't resize the area just above the belt. All you need to address that issue is a Larry Willis collet die. I have 7RM brass with 5+ reloads and they are going strong. Unbelted cases are fashionable, but there is nothing wrong with belted cases.

+10

 

[BurnOut]

The LW die is not only an extra expense but it's also an extra step in the sizing process which I found to be annoying. Why bother with it if you don't have to.

You're on the right track with the 30 Nosler vs 300WM. 28N is cool too but it's a barrel burner. I still might go with it anyway.

Eh, in regard to the cost, the LW collet die can easily be paid for with the cost savings found by buying 300 WM cases vs. 30 Nosler cases. Additionally, it's not like you have to use the LW die after every firing... the top of the die is a gauge that allows you to quickly determine if a given case needs to run through the die or not.

In any event, the Nosler case certainly has more capacity than the 300 WM case, and if you have enough barrel, you can get more velocity out of it (vs. the 300 WM). Another cartridge worth considering would be something based on the 375 Ruger case (like the 7 LRM).

 

[cumminsdsl]

Cost and availability of brass is my big concern with the nosler. If it doesn't gain popularity it will get expensive eventually.

I was not aware of the collet style die, but like I said I am very new to reloading. Would it hurt to just do a full length resize with the collet die every time, or does it only work well on the area near the belt? The description on their website makes it seem like you can use that die exclusively for resizing.

 

[steve123]

Or you can look at it in the "time is money" aspect.

Even still, if you are starting out with a new cartridge and plan on reloading, anything with a belt is trouble later on both of the ways I mentioned. Heck I'd rather sell 300WM brass after the first firing and replace it with new brass than deal with the hassle of belts again.

I'm not saying the LW die isn't a well made tool, it is. But by the second firing I was having to use the LW die on half the belted 7mmRM cases. By third firing I had to use it on all of them. Good thing he's got a gauge on the other end right, LOL. It's a hassle and a extra step and it takes extra "time" that can be put to good use elsewhere. Do what you wish but I learned my lesson right away and moved on.

Think about it, I'd almost be done loading all my rounds by the time you did the extra step.

I have a 30-375R and it's a hassle forming down two steps but at least it lasts long, like 12 firings so far in my case. 30-375R is very close to 30 Nosler and 30N is the route I'd take now if wanting to stay with a regular magnum bolt face in 30 caliber. Actually 300RUM isn't looking like to bad of a choice either and it's my second choice, especially for a single shot.

7 LRM would be a decent option but I'd rather have the speed of 28N. I've had three 7mmRM's throughout the years. Before the LW die came out I used to throw the cases out when they wouldn't fit anymore, and it was this last one that persuaded me to never buy a belted magnum again.

Too each his own, I don't like wasting time so I would gladly pay the extra money for 30N brass.

 

[steve123]

Cost and availability of brass is my big concern with the nosler. If it doesn't gain popularity it will get expensive eventually.

I was not aware of the collet style die, but like I said I am very new to reloading. Would it hurt to just do a full length resize with the collet die every time, or does it only work well on the area near the belt? The description on their website makes it seem like you can use that die exclusively for resizing.

If you are referring to the LW belt die, it doesn't size the neck so you have to size the case afterwards anyway. It's a solution to a problem which is solved by non belted cases.

 

[surgeon260]

I think the belt problem has been grossly overstated. It takes about 10 more seconds per case to run each one through the collet die when necessary. And you do not have to use it every time. As was mentioned, there is a nifty gauge on the top of the die that you drop your cases into - if it falls all the way to the belt, you can skip the collet die resizing altogether. If you don't go crazy with your load pressure, I have found that I only need to use the collet die every 3-4 reloads.

 

[cumminsdsl]

How many times are nosler non belted cases usually able to be used. I will be annealing as well.

I think the 30n's are about $3 a case, which sucks, but if the lifespan and time to reload is significantly better than comparable belted cases it would not be bad.

 

[cumminsdsl]

And how many reloads are you getting total out of the belted cases?

Sorry for all of the follow up questions, but this is why I asked the initial question. Definitely pros and cons to both, seems that neither choice is a bad one.

 

[steve123]

How many times are nosler non belted cases usually able to be used. I will be annealing as well.

I think the 30n's are about $3 a case, which sucks, but if the lifespan and time to reload is significantly better than comparable belted cases it would not be bad.

I couldn't say how long they'd last. Some cartridge cases or Co's brass are strong and some are weak. There are some things you could do to make the brass last longer. Other than annealing, you can buy your own reamer ground close to the size of virgin brass, I'll say "correct" minimum tolerances, especially in the neck area, next is having custom dies made to accomplish minimum sizing, after that keep pressures normal. I've done this with my higher priority rifles. 33-34 firings with x47l brass is the most obvious example for me with many more firings to go, only I'm not nice to my brass where pressure is concerned.

You'll treat a 30N differently than something like a 6.5 Creed. Meaning the standard long range session will likely go 50 rounds instead of 100 or 150 rounds with a normal case. So you don't need to buy a huge amount of brass like you would with a normal 40 grain capacity case.

What needs to be mentioned is you are getting some nice upgrades with the Nosler brass-
C&P's from Nosler site...
Nosler® Brass is sized, trimmed to length, case mouth is deburred and chamfered, flash hole deburred, weight sorted, polished and finally inspected and packaged meaning all the prep work has been done before you open the box. All it needs is a primer, powder and a Nosler® bullet seated at the top.

At least 375R brass is cheaper but there is the die forming then fireforming to deal with.

 

[demolitionman]

Steve I'm glad to see I'm not the only one shooting 125 or 150 rounds per long range trip bang steel! I always thought I shot too much 6.5mm on my range trips.

 

[morganlamprecht]

my 28 nosler brass is on firing 9 running mostly 180s @ 3200 and a few 195s @ 3000 fps from a 26"...annealing every other firing, havent lost a case yet due to loose pockets, but did lose 1 to split neck on like the 3rd firing...i think it was just a bad case

 

[cumminsdsl]

Nice, I would be happy if I could get 10 uses. I have heard numbers all over the place from 10 to in the 20's, depending on a lot of factors of course.
My only experience so far is with the Lapua brass I purchased for my 6.5, and it had only been loaded one time as of now. Wasn't sure if Nosler is equivalent in quality.

One of the benefits to me of the 30nosler, which I guess is also true of the Win Mag, is that Nosler sells match grade ammo for about the same price as just buying the cases. That might be a good way to get started so there is something to compare the hand loads to. Maybe buy 2 boxes of ammo, 25 additional cases, and a few different bullets to try out for hand loads. To be honest that alone would probably last me a year and still have good cases to continue using.

 

[surgeon260]

Nosler brass is definitely not Lapua quality.

 

[Jeffvn]

I don't particularly like the idea of spending Lapua prices on non-Lapua quality brass. If the brass stands up to fairly stout loads and gives me minimum 10+ reloads I'm good to go. I truly wish RWS was making brass for .338, a big 30 cal, or a big 7 mm and selling it in this country, not just Europe.

I'm running a 7 Dakota (the brass isn't my favorite, farily soft - but it has stood the test of time for me) - 92 gr. H2O. It runs a Berger 180 Hybrid @ 3,100 all day long - no pressure; 195 Berger @ 3,100 right on the ragged edge of over pressure.

I've got a 30 cal wildcat I call the 300 Dominator (.338 LM brass pushed back and blown out a bit) holds 96 gr. H2O. it runs a 230 Gr. Berger @ 3,100. I think the barrel is giving up the ghost, as its last time out it shot like crap. I'll likely abandon the Dominator in favor of a 300 Norma once this brass gives up its life - but its on reloads 7+ and still going strong. I'm sitting on 200+ Norma cases waiting for the Norma build.

Jeffvn

 

[longshooter]

Strange, but I've NEVER needed the Willis die. What r u guys doing that ur cases won't size?

 

[Ankeny]

I had a 30-338 hunting rifle that I loaded for and I never needed a Willis die. All three 7 Rem Mags that I had expanded in the belt area and needed the Willis treatment after three firings. I no longer own a belted magnum and the Willis die went away to sweeten a sale. The only 7 mag that I load for now is my brother's hunting rifle so I just throw the brass away after 3 firings. I have no idea what I was doing wrong (if anything) because the loads were not high pressure, and I tried Hornady , RCBS, and Redding sizing dies, as well as a couple of brands of shell holders. Beats me why the 30-338 grew in length and the 7 mags got fat at the belt.

 

[surgeon260]

I use the Willis about once every four firings with Norma 7RM brass. My load is pretty stout - 180 Bergers over 3k. After four or so firings the brass becomes difficult to chamber/extract. I can still force the bolt closed, but after the Willis die they chamber/extract like butter.

 

[steve123]

Strange, but I've NEVER needed the Willis die. What r u guys doing that ur cases won't size?

If I were to guess, your dies fit your fire formed brass very close, especially above the belt. Some of my 7RM's I could get more firings than others, my last one was real bad. That ended belted mags for me.

The other thing I forgot to mention after thinking about it is I could feel a difference in some cartridges when closing the bolt, in other words some were on the edge of needing the L die and some were not, which gets annoying too.

The other thing is you are probably FL sizing by headspacing off the belt vs the shoulder/ like one normally would in a standard cartridge case. That might mean as much as .007" over bumping the shoulder each time. But the area right above the belt gets sized more by FL sizing.

I went to 6.5Saum right after I sold that last 7mmRM , with my custom dies matched to the GS's custom reamer, which is ideal. I like everything about that way of going at it. Sizing is easier, brass lasts longer and no friggin belt!

 

[longshooter]

If I were to guess, your dies fit your fire formed brass very close, especially above the belt. Some of my 7RM's I could get more firings than others, my last one was real bad. That ended belted mags for me.

The other thing I forgot to mention after thinking about it is I could feel a difference in some cartridges when closing the bolt, in other words some were on the edge of needing the L die and some were not, which gets annoying too.

The other thing is you are probably FL sizing by headspacing off the belt vs the shoulder/ like one normally would in a standard cartridge case. That might mean as much as .007" over bumping the shoulder each time. But the area right above the belt gets sized more by FL sizing.

I went to 6.5Saum right after I sold that last 7mmRM , with my custom dies matched to the GS's custom reamer, which is ideal. I like everything about that way of going at it. Sizing is easier, brass lasts longer and no friggin belt!

Actually, I partial length sized for quite awhile, with resultant tight closures. Then one day, I decided to fl resize. Was I happy. No more tight. 0.001" bump. Same result on targets. RCBS std fl. They know what they're doing. Belted mags have a lot of attributes. I prefer them. I have never stretched a case.

 

[Alpine 338]

I have 55-rounds through my new 30 Nosler custom build. A heavy ELR rifle with 28" barrel. Been a long time 300WM shooter, and still have two custom rifles that shoot the 215 Hybrids like a dream. The reason I went the 30 Nosler route was so I could shoot the 230 Target Hybrids at a faster speed. In my opinion, the 300WM runs out of case capacity to make efficient use of the heaviest bullets. What I have found ballisticly speaking, you cannot push the 230's fast enough to take advantage of the higher BC over some of the lighter bullets like the 215's.
So far I have pushed the 230's with the 30 Nosler to nearly 3000-fps without any major signs of pressure, as I experimented with different loads. I stopped just short of 3000-fps when I felt just an ever so slight stiff bolt lift, and very hard to see ejector imprint. Primers (Fed 215M's) were still rounded.
Currently testing a load that gives me 2925-fps with the 230's, and only have to dial 6.3-mils to get to 1000-yards.

As far as brass, I've found it for $2.50 per on sale, and seen cosmetic blemished (sold out) for $2 per. As far as 300WM brass, I exclusively use RWS brass. It gives me single digit ES/SD's, and I have found it for $1 - 1.50 per case if you hunt for it. Although RWS head stamped 300WM brass is not imported anymore, you can purchase match grade RUAG ammo for a reasonable price which uses RWS brass. It's head stamped with a "T" to indicate it is manufactured at the Thune (Switzerland) factory. RUAG is a large conglomerate consisting of RWS, N-D, etc.

Note to self, need to buy one of those Larry Willis collet dies. So far I haven't needed one, but would like to try one out if it helps make brass last longer.

 

[demolitionman]

I have 55-rounds through my new 30 Nosler custom build. A heavy ELR rifle with 28" barrel. Been a long time 300WM shooter, and still have two custom rifles that shoot the 215 Hybrids like a dream. The reason I went the 30 Nosler route was so I could shoot the 230 Target Hybrids at a faster speed. In my opinion, the 300WM runs out of case capacity to make efficient use of the heaviest bullets. What I have found ballisticly speaking, you cannot push the 230's fast enough to take advantage of the higher BC over some of the lighter bullets like the 215's.
So far I have pushed the 230's with the 30 Nosler to nearly 3000-fps without any major signs of pressure, as I experimented with different loads. I stopped just short of 3000-fps when I felt just an ever so slight stiff bolt lift, and very hard to see ejector imprint. Primers (Fed 215M's) were still rounded.
Currently testing a load that gives me 2925-fps with the 230's, and only have to dial 6.3-mils to get to 1000-yards.

As far as brass, I've found it for $2.50 per on sale, and seen cosmetic blemished (sold out) for $2 per. As far as 300WM brass, I exclusively use RWS brass. It gives me single digit ES/SD's, and I have found it for $1 - 1.50 per case if you hunt for it. Although RWS head stamped 300WM brass is not imported anymore, you can purchase match grade RUAG ammo for a reasonable price which uses RWS brass. It's head stamped with a "T" to indicate it is manufactured at the Thune (Switzerland) factory. RUAG is a large conglomerate consisting of RWS, N-D, etc.

Note to self, need to buy one of those Larry Willis collet dies. So far I haven't needed one, but would like to try one out if it helps make brass last longer.

Hey Alpine, thanks for this first hand experience info. Did you have to have your 30 Nosler specially throated for the 230 hybrid Berger or will the sammi spec Nosler 30 reamer let you run those big Berger s pretty well? Reason I'm asking is I'm not sure what I need to specify to my Smith in order to make the chamber cut properly for that bullet. Thanks. And Oh, have you put anymore rounds down it and is it still shooting well? I'm thinking 30" barrel for a designated elr gun.....twist? 1 10?

 

[Switchbarrel]

Some interesting reading. Necking up the 26/28 Nosler brass would be simple enough for the OP.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/30-28-nosler.3927522/

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/30-28-nosler-continued.3937328/

-Rick

 

[Alpine 338]

Hey Alpine, thanks for this first hand experience info. Did you have to have your 30 Nosler specially throated for the 230 hybrid Berger or will the sammi spec Nosler 30 reamer let you run those big Berger s pretty well? Reason I'm asking is I'm not sure what I need to specify to my Smith in order to make the chamber cut properly for that bullet. Thanks. And Oh, have you put anymore rounds down it and is it still shooting well? I'm thinking 30" barrel for a designated elr gun.....twist? 1 10?

I went 28" barrel, 9 twist. My Smith ordered a custom reamer designed specifically for the 230 Hybrids. From what I recall the free bore is .238? I have about 150-rounds through it now. Really happy with the ballistics. Going to start fine-tuning my loads, and once I settle on a load that results in single digit ES/SD, I'll let you know.