Especially to the LEO on this site, what are your thoughts about people that open carry around town? There are quite a few guys from OpenCarry.org fairly local to me that do it partially as a 2A/political statement of sorts. Missouri is fairly relaxed as far as gun laws, but quite a few local LEO seem to take it personally almost when they encounter a person with a holstered firearm. I admit, some of these guys are just pricks looking for an altercation to run and post up on YouTube, but the majority are just law abiding types who prefer to carry openly vs. CCW. I didn't find any other threads on OC when I searched, as I guess it's kind of off-topic for this forum, but any time I've had a decent question I've always found a ton of good info from other members on here.
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Thoughts on Open Carry?
- Thread starter kellogg2185
- Start date
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Citizens with a permit in Indiana can carry openly or concealed. I've never understood the motivation to open carry personally. The only time I OC is if I'm heading to court wearing a shirt and tie displaying a badge.
I see an advantage to carrying concealed and none to open carry but to each his own. I gave up debating it years ago.
Citizens with a permit in Indiana can carry openly or concealed. I've never understood the motivation to open carry personally. The only time I OC is if I'm heading to court wearing a shirt and tie displaying a badge.
I see an advantage to carrying concealed and none to open carry but to each his own. I gave up debating it years ago.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
OC is tactically silly. While it may be a political statement in underlining the fact that any license whatsoever for carry seems to be at odds with the supposed (by some) intent of 2A, I find that many OCers have zero training in retention and worthless, non-snatch proof rigs. Moreover, some of them (although not all) really are drama queens of the worst order, and I begin to fear that they're taking a bit of a whiz in the collective punch bowl.
OC is tactically silly. While it may be a political statement in underlining the fact that any license whatsoever for carry seems to be at odds with the supposed (by some) intent of 2A, I find that many OCers have zero training in retention and worthless, non-snatch proof rigs. Moreover, some of them (although not all) really are drama queens of the worst order, and I begin to fear that they're taking a bit of a whiz in the collective punch bowl.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I partially agree with you, Veer G, in that some of the guys I see OCing don't seem to have more than a cheap holster, and only the most basic training sufficient to satisfy their CCW (Missouri doesn't have full preemption, many counties require a CCW to open carry). Then again a majority of the Pro-OC guys are in their late 40's or better. I usually see them wearing SERPA style holsters, so retention isn't really an issue. My curiosity is mostly directed at current police officers, and what their opinions are.
I partially agree with you, Veer G, in that some of the guys I see OCing don't seem to have more than a cheap holster, and only the most basic training sufficient to satisfy their CCW (Missouri doesn't have full preemption, many counties require a CCW to open carry). Then again a majority of the Pro-OC guys are in their late 40's or better. I usually see them wearing SERPA style holsters, so retention isn't really an issue. My curiosity is mostly directed at current police officers, and what their opinions are.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I usually carry concealed, with an option for OC. FOBUS paddle and an untucked shirt is nice when traveling.
I have filled up with gas and went to get a drink, many store owners have smiled courteously and approvingly, it may be the "way" you OC. One time, the "tingles" was telling me something was not right, but the causes of concern immediately retreated as I stepped toward the store to purchase a soft drink; but perhaps it was also Dad fueling up the truck while he had his .38 "Fife" parked on his hip.
My $.02
I usually carry concealed, with an option for OC. FOBUS paddle and an untucked shirt is nice when traveling.
I have filled up with gas and went to get a drink, many store owners have smiled courteously and approvingly, it may be the "way" you OC. One time, the "tingles" was telling me something was not right, but the causes of concern immediately retreated as I stepped toward the store to purchase a soft drink; but perhaps it was also Dad fueling up the truck while he had his .38 "Fife" parked on his hip.
My $.02
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I open carry all the time, but I NEED to. I take it off to go in the bank, grocery store, and Walmart, that's it.
I open carry all the time, but I NEED to. I take it off to go in the bank, grocery store, and Walmart, that's it.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I OCed once, and only because I was waiting at a U-Haul joint in the absolute worst part of town in Miami, and the truck had every possession my wife and I owned at the time. I was actively displaying to anyone near that I was not in the mood to be fucked with.
Otherwise I don't see the point. It's a political statement, not a means of personal defense.
I OCed once, and only because I was waiting at a U-Haul joint in the absolute worst part of town in Miami, and the truck had every possession my wife and I owned at the time. I was actively displaying to anyone near that I was not in the mood to be fucked with.
Otherwise I don't see the point. It's a political statement, not a means of personal defense.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
There is no tactical advantage to open carry. However, here in Michigan it remains an option for people who cannot obtain a CCW but are not otherwise prevented for carrying firearms. Example? Sure: Perhaps for a veteran, diagnosed with PTSD and/or on medication for a mental illness or TBI, who wants to walk his dog at 3am because he works second shift and can't afford to live in a better part of town.
There is no tactical advantage to open carry. However, here in Michigan it remains an option for people who cannot obtain a CCW but are not otherwise prevented for carrying firearms. Example? Sure: Perhaps for a veteran, diagnosed with PTSD and/or on medication for a mental illness or TBI, who wants to walk his dog at 3am because he works second shift and can't afford to live in a better part of town.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance.
I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I wouldn't go so far as to say ther is NO advantage to open carry. I would say not having to clear a cover garment is an advantage.
That said, giving up the element of surprise is usually not a good idea. As mentioned earlier, in some circumstances, a "demonstration" of firepower has it's value.
I wouldn't go so far as to say ther is NO advantage to open carry. I would say not having to clear a cover garment is an advantage.
That said, giving up the element of surprise is usually not a good idea. As mentioned earlier, in some circumstances, a "demonstration" of firepower has it's value.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance. </div></div>
If I was the bad guy and seen that you were carrying you would get the first bullet. Like Montana said you give up the element of surprise. I would rather fly under the radar so I don't open carry. But to each his own.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance. </div></div>
If I was the bad guy and seen that you were carrying you would get the first bullet. Like Montana said you give up the element of surprise. I would rather fly under the radar so I don't open carry. But to each his own.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance. </div></div>
If I was the bad guy and seen that you were carrying you would get the first bullet. Like Montana said you give up the element of surprise. I would rather fly under the radar so I don't open carry. But to each his own.
</div></div>
I agree with Legba. I have a CCW and wouldn't give up the advantage that it gives me. I have the choice as to whether or not I take my gun out. If you OC then you run the risk of a problem finding you first, unless you are at an OC gathering and there are others OC'ing with you. Some criminals these days just don't give a shit whether or not you have a gun because they carry concealed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken to OCing occasionally now, while I'm waiting on my FLA CCW to get approved, but most of the time it isn't even noticed. It's a small pistol (Kahr PM40) I got off another Hide member, so it isn't the most conspicuous piece. With the way people carry phones and PDA's and everything else on their hips these days, something this small almost goes unnoticed. Most attention I've gotten so far is people asking me if I'm a cop, nothing negative as of yet. What do you guys mean by it not being "tactically advantageous"? Asking out of curiosity/ignorance. </div></div>
If I was the bad guy and seen that you were carrying you would get the first bullet. Like Montana said you give up the element of surprise. I would rather fly under the radar so I don't open carry. But to each his own.
</div></div>
I agree with Legba. I have a CCW and wouldn't give up the advantage that it gives me. I have the choice as to whether or not I take my gun out. If you OC then you run the risk of a problem finding you first, unless you are at an OC gathering and there are others OC'ing with you. Some criminals these days just don't give a shit whether or not you have a gun because they carry concealed.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I understand and agree that the element of surprise if very valuable. I also understand that a lot of confrontations can be deterred by a simple display of force. Criminals are typically looking for an easy score and don't go into a situation with the primary purpose of harming people. I believe, just as in worldly disputes, a simple display of force such as open carry would deter far more violence than it would encourage. This is why we run military "exercises" near problem countries during times of conflict. I think the same is true with criminals, they will decide the risk outweighs the payoff.
Not to mention, I'm skinny as hell and it's hard for me to be comfortable concealed.
I understand and agree that the element of surprise if very valuable. I also understand that a lot of confrontations can be deterred by a simple display of force. Criminals are typically looking for an easy score and don't go into a situation with the primary purpose of harming people. I believe, just as in worldly disputes, a simple display of force such as open carry would deter far more violence than it would encourage. This is why we run military "exercises" near problem countries during times of conflict. I think the same is true with criminals, they will decide the risk outweighs the payoff.
Not to mention, I'm skinny as hell and it's hard for me to be comfortable concealed.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Like I said, I do it for now, just until my permit comes back. I just like to hear outside opinions. Obviously the OC guys I meet up with every now and then have strong opinions in favor of it, and I have my thoughts. Seems to be a high ratio of "professionals" on this forum though, so I figured it would be a good place to ask. Thanks for the input, both for and against.
* One thought though, it's been brought up several times on the OC forum that there haven't been any (reported) cases of violence where someone who was OC'ing was targeted first. I agree that it is definitely a deterrent. Not too many bad guys willing to gunfight over a wallet/watch at the most (I would think).
Like I said, I do it for now, just until my permit comes back. I just like to hear outside opinions. Obviously the OC guys I meet up with every now and then have strong opinions in favor of it, and I have my thoughts. Seems to be a high ratio of "professionals" on this forum though, so I figured it would be a good place to ask. Thanks for the input, both for and against.
* One thought though, it's been brought up several times on the OC forum that there haven't been any (reported) cases of violence where someone who was OC'ing was targeted first. I agree that it is definitely a deterrent. Not too many bad guys willing to gunfight over a wallet/watch at the most (I would think).
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Most criminals don't really want to shoot someone, so the presence of a person carrying openly probably will act as a deterrent. That would be even more true were it a common practice.
Personally, I hope a lot of people do carry openly, for that reason - but I prefer a lower profile.
Most criminals don't really want to shoot someone, so the presence of a person carrying openly probably will act as a deterrent. That would be even more true were it a common practice.
Personally, I hope a lot of people do carry openly, for that reason - but I prefer a lower profile.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
In Ohio we can OC but depending on where you are you may get the wrong sort of attention from people. Either cops or civis will call the cops and quesitons will be asked. The big question is whether your actions will cause the general public to be alarmed. If it does then some states can arrest you even though you are allowd to OC. I may have worded things wrong but I think my intent is clear.
In Ohio we can OC but depending on where you are you may get the wrong sort of attention from people. Either cops or civis will call the cops and quesitons will be asked. The big question is whether your actions will cause the general public to be alarmed. If it does then some states can arrest you even though you are allowd to OC. I may have worded things wrong but I think my intent is clear.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
i was inmy local walmart and passed an isle with a gun that had a vertical shoulder holster and was open carrying. i stopped and asked him if he had any issues ever. he said he had a CCW permit and regularly carried open and concealed. he said walmart never says anything to him. his opinion was they were too scared to say anything and piss someone off or create an incident.
my question is what if you are somewhere inbetween? your coat partiall covers your open carry or your coat partially reveals your concealed? what then?
i was inmy local walmart and passed an isle with a gun that had a vertical shoulder holster and was open carrying. i stopped and asked him if he had any issues ever. he said he had a CCW permit and regularly carried open and concealed. he said walmart never says anything to him. his opinion was they were too scared to say anything and piss someone off or create an incident.
my question is what if you are somewhere inbetween? your coat partiall covers your open carry or your coat partially reveals your concealed? what then?
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I would think that a partial concealment would cause controversy. It would look out of place, almost like you were trying to hide something but not doing a very good job of it.
I would think that a partial concealment would cause controversy. It would look out of place, almost like you were trying to hide something but not doing a very good job of it.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I only open carry on duty. Off duty I have a pistol with me everywhere I go. It is always concealed. I do not want to try to "deter" a criminal by displaying a firearm. Even in Ms. guns make people nervous. I personally don't want anyone to know that I have a pistol until it's pointing at them. There may not be much evidence of people open carrying targeted in a robbery for being the immediate threat. I do not want to be the case study in that. Do it if you want to but personaly I think it's a bad idea.
Patrick
I only open carry on duty. Off duty I have a pistol with me everywhere I go. It is always concealed. I do not want to try to "deter" a criminal by displaying a firearm. Even in Ms. guns make people nervous. I personally don't want anyone to know that I have a pistol until it's pointing at them. There may not be much evidence of people open carrying targeted in a robbery for being the immediate threat. I do not want to be the case study in that. Do it if you want to but personaly I think it's a bad idea.
Patrick
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
In Alaska, you can cc without permit and you can also oc.
Still you very rarely ever see anyone oc.
Personally, I always cc in the city, imho, why give away any advantage you have?
In Alaska, you can cc without permit and you can also oc.
Still you very rarely ever see anyone oc.
Personally, I always cc in the city, imho, why give away any advantage you have?
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Especially to the LEO on this site, what are your thoughts about people that open carry around town? </div></div>One large city in Michigan had a recent incident to which local LE was called to a large electronics store: A man carrying an AK47 had entered the store. The manager asked if it was a real gun and whether it was loaded. The man with the rifle replied that there was little point in carrying an unloaded but visible AK. The police were called. The officer arrived and asked the man if he could be of service. "No thanks," the man replied "I'm just looking." The manager of the store then asked the man to leave his rifle in his car and kindly to not carry in the store. The armed man stated he did not wish to cause offense, and he returned his rifle to his car. That incident prompted an awareness brieifing among some of the local departments regarding the legality of open carry: That it is legal. But I would not want to be the guy with the rifle had a customer panicked, called 9-11, and reported an active shooter instead of an armed customer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kellogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Especially to the LEO on this site, what are your thoughts about people that open carry around town? </div></div>One large city in Michigan had a recent incident to which local LE was called to a large electronics store: A man carrying an AK47 had entered the store. The manager asked if it was a real gun and whether it was loaded. The man with the rifle replied that there was little point in carrying an unloaded but visible AK. The police were called. The officer arrived and asked the man if he could be of service. "No thanks," the man replied "I'm just looking." The manager of the store then asked the man to leave his rifle in his car and kindly to not carry in the store. The armed man stated he did not wish to cause offense, and he returned his rifle to his car. That incident prompted an awareness brieifing among some of the local departments regarding the legality of open carry: That it is legal. But I would not want to be the guy with the rifle had a customer panicked, called 9-11, and reported an active shooter instead of an armed customer.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
New Mexico is an open carry state. I open carry often.
I'm going to post a reply to a similar thread on a different forum that was made by Cope Reynolds of Southwest Shooting Authority and who also is a Suarez International Instructor.
Here you go:
I carry both openly and concealed. Openly about 99.975% of the time and concealed for those few times when I think it would be prudent. I am not against CC, I just don't see the point in it here in most parts of NM. When I go some places in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, I may CC. When I go to the theater, I CC. Because it's law here in NM, if go somewhere that sells liquor for consumption off the premises, I CC because it's a 4th degree felony if you don't. I will not risk my career or my FFL over a "cause".
I simply cannot believe what I am hearing here. I guess carrying a gun is something relatively new for some folks. In many places, especially out here in the West, putting your gun on every day and wearing it openly is no different than putting on your hat or a pair of gloves or a tool-belt. Jeez! It blows me away that some of you talk about tactical advantages and disadvantages and all this other stuff. Certainly there are times and places where carrying openly may not be the best thing but come on!.
How in the hell can one believe that we should have a right and then, in the same breath, say that it is one that should go un-exercised? That is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever heard. Like any other right (or muscles), if they are not used, they will be weakened or lost.
Some say there could not possibly be a single tactical advantage to OC. Is that because Ayoob says so? They say it very definitively like it was some kind of proven statistic. It is not. I've heard this statement many times and it still doesn't make any sense. You cannot possibly have a clue as to how many crimes or attacks have been prevented because the would-be perpetrator saw someone with a gun in the area. If you were intent on robbing a store or a bank, would you go ahead with your plans if you saw someone standing in line wearing a gun? Of course not! Most people that perform these kinds of crimes are punks and cowards or too smart to want to get involved in a shoot-out. It MIGHT hold true in a very few isolated instances but that is for you to decide when the time comes.
Then there are those that claim that carrying openly makes you a target and that you'll be the first one taken out. I say BS!. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? About as likely as getting hit by lightning I think. If someone just wants to kill someone, they will. There are hundreds of interviews of convicted felons where they have said that they would not or did not carry out a plan due to employees or occupants or customers being armed. Can you count on not being a target? Certainly not. Nor can you count on not becoming a target if you are carrying concealed. Possibly, the perpetrator, upon seeing a gun, changed his mind and a shooting was averted. Possibly not. Possibly, because you were carrying concealed, the crook was braver and you were forced into a shooting. To exclaim that you are certain of either is the height of arrogance and cannot be proven.
It's a personal choice and you are taking a bit of a chance by doing either. It comes with the territory.
I think the biggest difference in some folks' opinions and mine is our locations. If I lived somewhere that I thought it was as bad as some make it out to be, I would move. Nobody cares here. As I mentioned above, I have carried openly every day since I've been back in this state which was in 1998 and I have had maybe 1 or 2 negative comments. Prior to that, I lived in AZ for a while. Same story. Before that, Wyoming. Same story. I guess the bottom line is, I will NOT live where carrying a gun in the open scares people as bad as some of you claim that it does. If I lived in St. Louis, maybe I wouldn't carry but I wouldn't live there so it doesn't matter.
No, I don't intentionally TRY to offend folks. I just don't care if I do. I don't fart at the table and I don't say f&%$ around women. When I am in someone's home, I do as they wish. If that bothers me, I leave. When they come to my house, I expect them to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with how we live. However, I don't think exercising a right can be compared to fartin' and cussin'. People are offended by guns because of emotion, not morals or scruples. AFAIC, when we worry about how much we offend them, they have won.
This is the reason that we will never win all of our rights back without bloodshed. Because the gun-grabbers all agree on one thing and we can't agree on anything. Some gun owners think it's OK to own pumps and levers but not semi-autos. Some say it's OK to have shotguns but not "black" rifles. Some say 10 round mags are OK but not 30 round mags. Some say it's OK to carry a gun as long we don't offend anyone and others don't care.
AFAIC, it's all or nothing. I'm tired of compromising. It's not working.
Be that as it may, you may be interested to know that I addressed this very thing on my radio show a few weeks ago. I said even though it was legal and we had a right to carry openly just about anywhere here in NM, it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do in some cases. I said that those that wave the Constitution in everyone's face and say the 2nd amendment is their carry permit are going to eventually disarm all of us. I admonished those that were so inclined to either carry concealed or don't take their gun in places like theaters, churches, Boys and Girls Clubs, etc. Our CCW law states, as most do, that if a business or individual puts up a sign saying "no guns" that means no guns, openly or concealed, permit or not. So, if we walk in someplace that is NOT posted and try to force our right right to carry on them, all they have to do is put up a sign and your right to carry is gone without changing the law. At least in that particular place. THAT's why I don't OC in the theater.
To that end, I very much encourage people to carry concealed under those circumstances. I never "encourage" people to carry openly except by saying that it is your right and if you want to, you should exercise that right. As far as just walking down the street and tending to my normal business, I absolutely will NOT carry concealed just for fear of hurting someone's feelings.
The difference here is that a couple of folks here don't seem to support my right as I have clearly supported theirs. If some of you think that there is some perceived "tactical advantage" to being concealed, that's OK with me, I just don't agree. I haven't called you dumb or disparaged you in any manner. As I have said more than once, there may be a handful of cases out there where that has proven to be the case but to say that carrying openly has NEVER given an advantage is ridiculous because it cannot be proven either way.
As I also said, location has a lot to do with this. Some of you are afraid to carry openly even where it is legal because of what the cops might say. THAT is where I have a problem. I was pulled over in a little town in NV late one night by a female cop. She asked me to get out and, since I was carrying openly, I told her that I was wearing a gun and asked if that was OK. She got kind of smart and said, mockingly, "you're wearing a gun and is that OK?" I said , "Yes, Ma'am." She told me to get out and keep my hands where she could see them (like that would do her any good if I had less than honorable intentions) and called in my information. She called back-up and when he got there, we discussed the finer points of the Glock vs. the 1911 and he finally left when he decided that she didn't really need any back-up. When she handed my license back, she said, "So why are you carrying a gun?" to which I said, "Why are you?". She said, "Because I'm law enforcement and I HAVE to." I said, "I'm a civilian and I GET to". She had nothing on me and we both went our merry ways.
I was stopped another time a State cop in NM for a faulty tail light. I told him that I could fix it on the spot if he would allow me to. He said OK, and I told him I was carrying before I got out. He said that for his safety, would I unload the gun and give it to him and I told him "no". I said that my vehicle was considered an extension of my home in this state and that I would be glad to leave it in the truck while I got out to fix the light. I didn't give him time to reply and he was in a position of advantage so I turned the inside light on and slowly and deliberately took the gun out and slid it between the seats. When I got out, I locked the doors and left the keys in the ignition so NO ONE could get them. Once I fixed the light, I thanked him, took the spare key out of my wallet and unlocked the door and left.
There is rarely any issue with LE in this state if you conduct yourself properly and confidently.
Colts and Kimbers are what you show your friends.
GLOCKS are what you show your enemies.
The GLOCKsmith
New Mexico is an open carry state. I open carry often.
I'm going to post a reply to a similar thread on a different forum that was made by Cope Reynolds of Southwest Shooting Authority and who also is a Suarez International Instructor.
Here you go:
I carry both openly and concealed. Openly about 99.975% of the time and concealed for those few times when I think it would be prudent. I am not against CC, I just don't see the point in it here in most parts of NM. When I go some places in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, I may CC. When I go to the theater, I CC. Because it's law here in NM, if go somewhere that sells liquor for consumption off the premises, I CC because it's a 4th degree felony if you don't. I will not risk my career or my FFL over a "cause".
I simply cannot believe what I am hearing here. I guess carrying a gun is something relatively new for some folks. In many places, especially out here in the West, putting your gun on every day and wearing it openly is no different than putting on your hat or a pair of gloves or a tool-belt. Jeez! It blows me away that some of you talk about tactical advantages and disadvantages and all this other stuff. Certainly there are times and places where carrying openly may not be the best thing but come on!.
How in the hell can one believe that we should have a right and then, in the same breath, say that it is one that should go un-exercised? That is one of the most ridiculous things that I have ever heard. Like any other right (or muscles), if they are not used, they will be weakened or lost.
Some say there could not possibly be a single tactical advantage to OC. Is that because Ayoob says so? They say it very definitively like it was some kind of proven statistic. It is not. I've heard this statement many times and it still doesn't make any sense. You cannot possibly have a clue as to how many crimes or attacks have been prevented because the would-be perpetrator saw someone with a gun in the area. If you were intent on robbing a store or a bank, would you go ahead with your plans if you saw someone standing in line wearing a gun? Of course not! Most people that perform these kinds of crimes are punks and cowards or too smart to want to get involved in a shoot-out. It MIGHT hold true in a very few isolated instances but that is for you to decide when the time comes.
Then there are those that claim that carrying openly makes you a target and that you'll be the first one taken out. I say BS!. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? About as likely as getting hit by lightning I think. If someone just wants to kill someone, they will. There are hundreds of interviews of convicted felons where they have said that they would not or did not carry out a plan due to employees or occupants or customers being armed. Can you count on not being a target? Certainly not. Nor can you count on not becoming a target if you are carrying concealed. Possibly, the perpetrator, upon seeing a gun, changed his mind and a shooting was averted. Possibly not. Possibly, because you were carrying concealed, the crook was braver and you were forced into a shooting. To exclaim that you are certain of either is the height of arrogance and cannot be proven.
It's a personal choice and you are taking a bit of a chance by doing either. It comes with the territory.
I think the biggest difference in some folks' opinions and mine is our locations. If I lived somewhere that I thought it was as bad as some make it out to be, I would move. Nobody cares here. As I mentioned above, I have carried openly every day since I've been back in this state which was in 1998 and I have had maybe 1 or 2 negative comments. Prior to that, I lived in AZ for a while. Same story. Before that, Wyoming. Same story. I guess the bottom line is, I will NOT live where carrying a gun in the open scares people as bad as some of you claim that it does. If I lived in St. Louis, maybe I wouldn't carry but I wouldn't live there so it doesn't matter.
No, I don't intentionally TRY to offend folks. I just don't care if I do. I don't fart at the table and I don't say f&%$ around women. When I am in someone's home, I do as they wish. If that bothers me, I leave. When they come to my house, I expect them to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with how we live. However, I don't think exercising a right can be compared to fartin' and cussin'. People are offended by guns because of emotion, not morals or scruples. AFAIC, when we worry about how much we offend them, they have won.
This is the reason that we will never win all of our rights back without bloodshed. Because the gun-grabbers all agree on one thing and we can't agree on anything. Some gun owners think it's OK to own pumps and levers but not semi-autos. Some say it's OK to have shotguns but not "black" rifles. Some say 10 round mags are OK but not 30 round mags. Some say it's OK to carry a gun as long we don't offend anyone and others don't care.
AFAIC, it's all or nothing. I'm tired of compromising. It's not working.
Be that as it may, you may be interested to know that I addressed this very thing on my radio show a few weeks ago. I said even though it was legal and we had a right to carry openly just about anywhere here in NM, it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do in some cases. I said that those that wave the Constitution in everyone's face and say the 2nd amendment is their carry permit are going to eventually disarm all of us. I admonished those that were so inclined to either carry concealed or don't take their gun in places like theaters, churches, Boys and Girls Clubs, etc. Our CCW law states, as most do, that if a business or individual puts up a sign saying "no guns" that means no guns, openly or concealed, permit or not. So, if we walk in someplace that is NOT posted and try to force our right right to carry on them, all they have to do is put up a sign and your right to carry is gone without changing the law. At least in that particular place. THAT's why I don't OC in the theater.
To that end, I very much encourage people to carry concealed under those circumstances. I never "encourage" people to carry openly except by saying that it is your right and if you want to, you should exercise that right. As far as just walking down the street and tending to my normal business, I absolutely will NOT carry concealed just for fear of hurting someone's feelings.
The difference here is that a couple of folks here don't seem to support my right as I have clearly supported theirs. If some of you think that there is some perceived "tactical advantage" to being concealed, that's OK with me, I just don't agree. I haven't called you dumb or disparaged you in any manner. As I have said more than once, there may be a handful of cases out there where that has proven to be the case but to say that carrying openly has NEVER given an advantage is ridiculous because it cannot be proven either way.
As I also said, location has a lot to do with this. Some of you are afraid to carry openly even where it is legal because of what the cops might say. THAT is where I have a problem. I was pulled over in a little town in NV late one night by a female cop. She asked me to get out and, since I was carrying openly, I told her that I was wearing a gun and asked if that was OK. She got kind of smart and said, mockingly, "you're wearing a gun and is that OK?" I said , "Yes, Ma'am." She told me to get out and keep my hands where she could see them (like that would do her any good if I had less than honorable intentions) and called in my information. She called back-up and when he got there, we discussed the finer points of the Glock vs. the 1911 and he finally left when he decided that she didn't really need any back-up. When she handed my license back, she said, "So why are you carrying a gun?" to which I said, "Why are you?". She said, "Because I'm law enforcement and I HAVE to." I said, "I'm a civilian and I GET to". She had nothing on me and we both went our merry ways.
I was stopped another time a State cop in NM for a faulty tail light. I told him that I could fix it on the spot if he would allow me to. He said OK, and I told him I was carrying before I got out. He said that for his safety, would I unload the gun and give it to him and I told him "no". I said that my vehicle was considered an extension of my home in this state and that I would be glad to leave it in the truck while I got out to fix the light. I didn't give him time to reply and he was in a position of advantage so I turned the inside light on and slowly and deliberately took the gun out and slid it between the seats. When I got out, I locked the doors and left the keys in the ignition so NO ONE could get them. Once I fixed the light, I thanked him, took the spare key out of my wallet and unlocked the door and left.
There is rarely any issue with LE in this state if you conduct yourself properly and confidently.
Colts and Kimbers are what you show your friends.
GLOCKS are what you show your enemies.
The GLOCKsmith
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Rights and Freedoms are a two-way street, whether we admit to ourselves or not. Using freedom properly means having the emotional maturity to avoid getting yourself in trouble for no particular reason. If acting tough made people tough there would be far more tough people among us:
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html
Rights and Freedoms are a two-way street, whether we admit to ourselves or not. Using freedom properly means having the emotional maturity to avoid getting yourself in trouble for no particular reason. If acting tough made people tough there would be far more tough people among us:
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing.........
I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing.........
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing......... </div></div>Except that cops are paid to worry about what others are doing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing......... </div></div>Except that cops are paid to worry about what others are doing.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm going to post a reply to a similar thread on a different forum that was made by Cope Reynolds of Southwest Shooting Authority and who also is a Suarez International Instructor.
</div></div>
I can appreciate his viewpoint and I agree with him that it is a decision best left up to the individual.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3PER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm going to post a reply to a similar thread on a different forum that was made by Cope Reynolds of Southwest Shooting Authority and who also is a Suarez International Instructor.
</div></div>
I can appreciate his viewpoint and I agree with him that it is a decision best left up to the individual.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
It is embarassing that we can't get open carry laws passed here in Texas even though we like to take pride in our supposedly excellent gun laws.
It is embarassing that we can't get open carry laws passed here in Texas even though we like to take pride in our supposedly excellent gun laws.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is embarassing that we can't get open carry laws passed here in Texas even though we like to take pride in our supposedly excellent gun laws. </div></div>
All it takes is an individual dedicated to the cause willing to put in the effort and see it through. A good friend of mine was responsible for the repeal of the helmet law here in Texas. It was a long road and took a lot of work on his part but it was repealed. Maybe you could be that person on the open carry law?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is embarassing that we can't get open carry laws passed here in Texas even though we like to take pride in our supposedly excellent gun laws. </div></div>
All it takes is an individual dedicated to the cause willing to put in the effort and see it through. A good friend of mine was responsible for the repeal of the helmet law here in Texas. It was a long road and took a lot of work on his part but it was repealed. Maybe you could be that person on the open carry law?
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
for those that are in pa:
I got pulled over last week i think or the week before for a tail light that was out, the cop was a young guy like me and pretty dang nice.
after every thing was said and done i asked him about open carry in pa, and he said its totally legal ( i knew that ) I then asked him if i could have my hand gun taken for "disturbing the peace" if some one called me, he told me if my gun never came out of the holster and i never threatened any one i was gtg
he also said if i stop at certain places such as gas stations and what not it would be a good idea to ask them how they felt about me carrying in their place of business, which i was already 2 steps ahead of him.
i dont carry concealed much or open much... but i find my self carrying mostly in the summer from the range and back and all this and that... and when i do i open carry... and have had no problems so far.
yes i have a pa carriers permit as well.
just my .02 and though i would pass this info along to the pa guys
for those that are in pa:
I got pulled over last week i think or the week before for a tail light that was out, the cop was a young guy like me and pretty dang nice.
after every thing was said and done i asked him about open carry in pa, and he said its totally legal ( i knew that ) I then asked him if i could have my hand gun taken for "disturbing the peace" if some one called me, he told me if my gun never came out of the holster and i never threatened any one i was gtg
he also said if i stop at certain places such as gas stations and what not it would be a good idea to ask them how they felt about me carrying in their place of business, which i was already 2 steps ahead of him.
i dont carry concealed much or open much... but i find my self carrying mostly in the summer from the range and back and all this and that... and when i do i open carry... and have had no problems so far.
yes i have a pa carriers permit as well.
just my .02 and though i would pass this info along to the pa guys
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html </div></div>
done
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html </div></div>
done
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spanky4888</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html </div></div>
done </div></div>
I just tried signing it again and got caught.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Spanky4888</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SnkBit</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fellows from Texas might as well sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html </div></div>
done </div></div>
I just tried signing it again and got caught.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
I open carry fairly often in the area where I live, but us in Missouri have to be careful. We aren't a Preemption state as far as OC is concerned, and many counties require you to have a CCW if you're open carrying. I've yet to have anything negative happen, from police officers or average Joe. Thanks for the post 3PER, it has some great points.
I open carry fairly often in the area where I live, but us in Missouri have to be careful. We aren't a Preemption state as far as OC is concerned, and many counties require you to have a CCW if you're open carrying. I've yet to have anything negative happen, from police officers or average Joe. Thanks for the post 3PER, it has some great points.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing......... </div></div>Except that cops are paid to worry about what others are doing.
</div></div>
thats the trouble with cops.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 18Echo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop in AZ. I couldn't care less if you open carry or not. People should just worry about themselves and not what others are doing......... </div></div>Except that cops are paid to worry about what others are doing.
thats the trouble with cops.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Ah, open carry, the great equalizer. I think it would lend itself to a more civilized and polite society after the beginnning hooplah died down.
Ah, open carry, the great equalizer. I think it would lend itself to a more civilized and polite society after the beginnning hooplah died down.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
^^^ It worked in Romeo & Juliet... Hahaha...
But on a more serious note, I agree with Switchblade. Was open carrying yesterday as well, and nobody noticed at all, in either Wal Mart or Target. I think a good part of it is how you carry/present yourself.
^^^ It worked in Romeo & Juliet... Hahaha...
But on a more serious note, I agree with Switchblade. Was open carrying yesterday as well, and nobody noticed at all, in either Wal Mart or Target. I think a good part of it is how you carry/present yourself.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, open carry, the great equalizer. I think it would lend itself to a more civilized and polite society after the beginnning hooplah died down. </div></div>
Personally I'd like to see more people open carrying swords around. Would you try to mug a guy with a sword?
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, open carry, the great equalizer. I think it would lend itself to a more civilized and polite society after the beginnning hooplah died down. </div></div>
Personally I'd like to see more people open carrying swords around. Would you try to mug a guy with a sword?
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Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
The only time I have open carried was at a ghetto-ass U-Haul in Richmond Virginia.
The only time I have open carried was at a ghetto-ass U-Haul in Richmond Virginia.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
Here in NE open carry is legal everywhere, but in the four years I have been here I have never seen anyone do it. I CC always, expecially when I was new to the area and didn't know about north Omaha, which is not a nice place. The Lincoln sherrif had been quoted that he would pursue anyone openly carrying for disturbing the peace, but this was a few years back that I heard. To me, it may be a deterrent but it may make you a target. If someone has planned there crime and is paying attention, the guy with the 1911 on his hip would be the first to go. Now, how often does this happen, that someone cases a spot out and plans things, I dunno... I havnt finished my Bachelors in CJ yet, but Im well on my way.
Here in NE open carry is legal everywhere, but in the four years I have been here I have never seen anyone do it. I CC always, expecially when I was new to the area and didn't know about north Omaha, which is not a nice place. The Lincoln sherrif had been quoted that he would pursue anyone openly carrying for disturbing the peace, but this was a few years back that I heard. To me, it may be a deterrent but it may make you a target. If someone has planned there crime and is paying attention, the guy with the 1911 on his hip would be the first to go. Now, how often does this happen, that someone cases a spot out and plans things, I dunno... I havnt finished my Bachelors in CJ yet, but Im well on my way.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
In good old Wisconsin we don't have CC. However, we do have open carry and one of the strongest State Constitution in support of gun rights. The bad news is politics of Police Chiefs - primarily Madison and Milwaukee - have chosen to ignore both the State and Federal constitution, and ordered their officers to arrest/cite those that open carry. We've had some real interesting court cases on the subject the past couple of years.
Hopefully the new State Assembly and Senate will give us CC.
In good old Wisconsin we don't have CC. However, we do have open carry and one of the strongest State Constitution in support of gun rights. The bad news is politics of Police Chiefs - primarily Madison and Milwaukee - have chosen to ignore both the State and Federal constitution, and ordered their officers to arrest/cite those that open carry. We've had some real interesting court cases on the subject the past couple of years.
Hopefully the new State Assembly and Senate will give us CC.
Re: Thoughts on Open Carry?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no tactical advantage to open carry. However, here in Michigan it remains an option for people who cannot obtain a CCW but are not otherwise prevented for carrying firearms. Example? Sure: Perhaps for a veteran, diagnosed with PTSD and/or on medication for a mental illness or TBI, who wants to walk his dog at 3am because he works second shift and can't afford to live in a better part of town. </div></div>
Last I checked, being treated for PTSD or TBI does not prevent one from obtaining a concealed pistol license.
Has this been changed?
Edit: did some research, appears it must fall under the statutes of "mental condition" for the state of michigan- which essentially says a doctor determines you have problems functioning in terms of emotions, judgement or things of that nature. So I suppose it would be a case-by-case basis.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no tactical advantage to open carry. However, here in Michigan it remains an option for people who cannot obtain a CCW but are not otherwise prevented for carrying firearms. Example? Sure: Perhaps for a veteran, diagnosed with PTSD and/or on medication for a mental illness or TBI, who wants to walk his dog at 3am because he works second shift and can't afford to live in a better part of town. </div></div>
Last I checked, being treated for PTSD or TBI does not prevent one from obtaining a concealed pistol license.
Has this been changed?
Edit: did some research, appears it must fall under the statutes of "mental condition" for the state of michigan- which essentially says a doctor determines you have problems functioning in terms of emotions, judgement or things of that nature. So I suppose it would be a case-by-case basis.
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