Suppressors Three Crux .30 Suppressors on a .223 compared.

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

Three Crux .30 Suppressors on a .223 compared.

Disclaimer. This video is not a scientific experiment. It's just a few of us commenting on how three different .30 Crux suppressors sounded to us at the Impact zone when used on a 223. Enjoy. The final conclusion was that the Archangel and Arc were almost identical in sound signature. The Nemesis was loud, but we felt it would be usable for one or two rounds in a hunting situation

The 3 crux cans start at 41 seconds. Three Crux .30 cal Suppressors on a 20" .223 Ark 7.5", Archangel 9.25" and the 6" Nemesis. The 6" was louder but good for hunting.

We used the POF P-308 and kopfjager-industries reaper grip as a spotter.

Custom Remington 700. Evelio McDonald built this masterpeice. 20” Shilen 4-groove ratchet 1:8”, Defiance bolt stop, Badger mini tactical bolt knob, Bell & Carlson M40 stock, Seekins Precision bipod rail, Atlas bipod, NF 3.5-15x56, Leupold mounts and Jewell trigger.

https://youtu.be/Vm3tIDToF6M

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[TheMammoth]

I can never figure out why their cans aren't more popular. I have ten silencers and three of them are Crux. They're light, have been very reliable for me, and have sound reduction in line or sometimes even better than the big dogs...

 

[TBACRAY]

Suppression is not in line with the Big Dogs.

 

[kthomas]

Suppression is not in line with the Big Dogs.

Interesting comment, and I genuinely mean that as I don't have much experience with suppressors. What makes you say that?

 

[FCS]

Interesting comment, and I genuinely mean that as I don't have much experience with suppressors. What makes you say that?

Best guess is Ray has, or taken, actual metered data per mil spec testing requirements from most commercially available suppressors and isn't going off calibrated ear.

 

[THEIS]

Interesting comment, and I genuinely mean that as I don't have much experience with suppressors. What makes you say that?

Best guess is that Ray works for Thunder Beast Suppressors, hence the TBAC in front of his name.

Sincerely,
THEIS

 

[kthomas]

Best guess is that Ray works for Thunder Beast Suppressors, hence the TBAC in front of his name.

Sincerely,
THEIS

Yeah I get that, would just like some evidence to back up that claim. Of course he has a financial interest in putting down a competitor, so there is undoubtedly some bias. He very well could be correct in that statement, but some empirical evidence to back up that statement would be nice.

I recently purchased my first suppressor (still in NFA jail), which happens to be a .30 cal Crux Archangel. It has the features I want, and I got it for a hell of a deal, so I'm not really too worried about it. The Crux's are very well thought of down here in Texas, people are really happy with them. Regardless, I can't wait to get my suppressor!

 

[TBACRAY]

Monocore cans do not meter as well as fully cut stacks. None of the top metering cans are monocore for any application. All the top 22 ,9mm, 45, 556 , 30 cal 338 ect cans are fully cut baffles not mono core designs. Its just fact not my opinion. And yes I do have two of them I have metered and checked for overall QC. Definatly not in league with the big boys.
Maybe I just should've avoided this post but I didn't . I deal with phone calls and questions all day asking about claims posted online by other companies that can't be backed up by them. I post videos of all our products using a legit MilSpec meter and test just about all others. I do know what is "Big League" and not. Just shoot any good full stack next to a monocore and you don't even need a meter.

 

[kthomas]

Monocore cans do not meter as well as fully cut stacks. None of the top metering cans are monocore for any application. All the top 22 ,9mm, 45, 556 , 30 cal 338 ect cans are fully cut baffles not mono core designs. Its just fact not my opinion. And yes I do have two of them I have metered and checked for overall QC. Definatly not in league with the big boys.
Maybe I just should've avoided this post but I didn't . I deal with phone calls and questions all day asking about claims posted online by other companies that can't be backed up by them. I post videos of all our products using a legit MilSpec meter and test just about all others. I do know what is "Big League" and not. Just shoot any good full stack next to a monocore and you don't even need a meter.

Thanks Ray, I appreciate the clarification

 

[TheMammoth]

Suppression is not in line with the Big Dogs.

Respectfully, I disagree. I have and love two of your products so it isn't bias on my part. I genuinely feel like they make a competitive product. I've shot everything from 338LM to 5.56 through my Archangel and it's sound reduction was impressive and to my FLIR unit that we use at work to track OSHA compliance they're right there with you.

I'm sure I will get roasted alive for disagreeing with an industry professional but oh well.

 

[TBACRAY]

You're allowed to disagree. I won't roast you.I have sounded tested them and like I said no monocore is at the top of any suppressor application. Your FLIR unit doesn't measure sound pressure so I don't understand what you are referring to about it.

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

I would venture to say he is referring to the Extech Instruments Meters..since they are owned by FLIR and some even have FLIR markings on them....

Now only if we heard on same levels as the monitors...some of us have different hearing abilities and hearing loss at different frequency levels so it makes "Pure" meter reading numbers just that...numbers and not what sounds best to us. I myself have a hard time having conversations with a Darth Vader but no problems with a Minnie Mouse. So for me the suppressor has to be able to "dampen" that high pitch frequency even though on straight decibel meter that chosen one might meter louder than one that did not dampen that high pitch frequency.

Sincerely,
THEIS

 

[TBACRAY]

Hello,

I would venture to say he is referring to the Extech Instruments Meters..since they are owned by FLIR and some even have FLIR markings on them....

Now only if we heard on same levels as the monitors...some of us have different hearing abilities and hearing loss at different frequency levels so it makes "Pure" meter reading numbers just that...numbers and not what sounds best to us. I myself have a hard time having conversations with a Darth Vader but no problems with a Minnie Mouse. So for me the suppressor has to be able to "dampen" that high pitch frequency even though on straight decibel meter that chosen one might meter louder than one that did not dampen that high pitch frequency.

Sincerely,
THEIS

I agree with tone to each person to a degree. As far as to using those meters for sound testing , they are a joke. There is no way you can use one of those for gunshots. Isn't that what started this whole thing? I've tested the LXT and 2209 side by side. They do not give the same info. Right now there is a standard the military has that tells you what the equipment has to be capable of and how to conduct the test.

I've got nothing an against CRUX. I hope they have a year backlog and can't make cans fast enough. I Deal with misinformation a lot and sometimes it does get annoying. I should've just let this thread go without me. But it does show how misinformation gets around fast. TheMammoth says with his meter cans are on par for suppression but his meter is useless for gunshots. I know he might not know that but there it is in print above. Just like the Guns & ammo article last year. Our can metered the loudest but they pointed out it sounded the best. There is no way something 10dB louder can sound better and there is no way anyone has a 338 can 10dB better than the 338 Ultra. But there it was in print thanks to a LXT.
If any of you want to talk about this stuff feel free to give me a call . Like I said its a full time job for me. Its easy to get my number from our site.

 

[TheMammoth]

Hello,

I would venture to say he is referring to the Extech Instruments Meters..since they are owned by FLIR and some even have FLIR markings on them....

Yes. We have an entire suite of their metering equipment from sound level to air quality to lux to certify industrial work areas. I'm not entirely sure I believe that this equipment is as useless as being described here, but I readily admit I am only familiar with industrial safety protocols and testing not gun fire.

My intention wasn't to dismiss or shit on any other brands or spread misinformation, I was sharing my personal experience and to be fair to my statement, despite the apparent uselessness of the equipment I used... I was trying to use more than just the meat meters on the side of my head when considering the cans I own against each other.

Anyhow, I am satisfied with both the product from the OP and TBAC that I have purchased, and I would easily and happily purchase another from either brand.

 

[TBACRAY]

I realize I got a couple threads mixed up. This thread was not about meters. The meters you have are totally useless for measuring gunshots. Might as well use an iPhone App. Peak pressure of a gunshot happens very fast The only digital meter on the market acceptable for gunshots is the B&K Pulse system at well over $50K without any mics. Sorry but those FLIR units aren't capable of catching the peak pressure. They really are totally useless for gunshots there is an equipment standard for a reason. Units much better than they are like the LXT still aren't good enough for repeatable and accurate gunshot measurement. It makes it very hard for a consumer when we aren't comparing apples to apples. Like I said I know you weren't doing it intentionally but there are only 3 meters out there acceptable for measuring gunshots and two of them aren't in production anymore. Frank posted a video a couple months ago with side by side numbers of a 2209 and LXT. You can see the LXT is useless for serious numbers and those FLIR units are way behind the LXT.

 

[TheMammoth]

I realize I got a couple threads mixed up. This thread was not about meters. The meters you have are totally useless for measuring gunshots. Might as well use an iPhone App. Peak pressure of a gunshot happens very fast The only digital meter on the market acceptable for gunshots is the B&K Pulse system at well over $50K without any mics. Sorry but those FLIR units aren't capable of catching the peak pressure. They really are totally useless for gunshots there is an equipment standard for a reason. Units much better than they are like the LXT still aren't good enough for repeatable and accurate gunshot measurement. It makes it very hard for a consumer when we aren't comparing apples to apples. Like I said I know you weren't doing it intentionally but there are only 3 meters out there acceptable for measuring gunshots and two of them aren't in production anymore. Frank posted a video a couple months ago with side by side numbers of a 2209 and LXT. You can see the LXT is useless for serious numbers and those FLIR units are way behind the LXT.

What reviewer uses this unit? Besides an OEM.

I mean, not to be insulting because as I said, I know from having your product a few feet from my face for months of weekends on end that they're very good... but you're telling me no one who doesn't spend 50k on equipment can even be allowed to have an opinion on the matter of silencer performance without an OEM deciding to take issue with them?





Alright then.

 

[Zak Smith]

There are three milspec soundmeters; the expensive one is just one of the three.

 

[TheMammoth]

Might as well use an iPhone App.

I didn't even see this the first time.

Now it's clear you're just being an ass.

 

[Zak Smith]

Ray is... emphatic.. about metering specs, LOL

 

[Lowlight]

I saw first hand the issues between the digital and BK Analog units... as well I was ready to buy an LXT until I saw it first hand.

We ran them left side, right side, at the same time using the same exact protocols and the LXT had many different numbers compared to the B&K unit.

The mics, the peak pressure, all this has to be specifically spec'd out for a gunshot. You can buy the exact same sound units but with standard mics and they will not work correctly for a gunshot. It's actually quite involved and technical when talking gunshots.

Even looking up the milspec standards required and you see it changes. I wish it was easier, but there is no free ride here.

 

[346ci]

I have an TTF Archangel and 30P-1, they sound so close I'd need a meter to tell. POI shift is great on both. My only regret is not buying another Archangel during the group buy, that was damn cheap for such a good can.

 

[TBACRAY]

The Ultra 9 is noticeably better than the 30P-1 and also 5 oz lighter. In fact an Ultra 7 is quieter than the 30P-1 .

The Mammoth- Not trying to be an ass. I deal with these questions and comparisons all the time. If the meter isn't MilSpec the numbers are no good. Yeah it sucks meters aren't more available but thats how it is. We had to search for a while to find a 2209 and send it in for service every year. There is an older Larson Davis machine that works also. Other than that only the Pulse in the digital world as far as commercial systems. Rise Time and Sample Rate are very important when trying to capture peak pressure of a gun shot. All the non MilSpec meters are off on both so they don't grab the highest pressure and they don't have enough sample points to plot the correct graph with the bad data it grabbed in the first place. Its not my opinion its fact. Here is a link start at slide 33

https://www.slideshare.net/ZetecNDT...focusing-method-tfm-in-ultrasonic-inspections

 

[TheMammoth]

The Mammoth- Not trying to be an ass.

https://www.slideshare.net/ZetecNDT...focusing-method-tfm-in-ultrasonic-inspections

Thanks for the link, it is informative.

I'll reiterate that I was only sharing an opinion, and honestly thought I had backed that opinion up with something better than my ears. I was definitely not trying to start a brand battle.

 

[TBACRAY]

I know you weren't trying to start shit. I respect your ears more than many of the meters being used out there.How it sounds is very important. As someone that has to field phone calls asking about numbers several times a day sometimes it gets to me. There are lots of numbers out that when properly tested do not stand.