Suppressors Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

[317millhand]

I recently got a break and scored a good deal on both a Mark 23 and USP45 tactical. So, now I am in the mood to purchase my first supressor and it really sucks that the barrels on these two guns are threaded opposite. Which would be the better candidate for a supressor, if I can only purchase one? And, is the KAC worth the extra cost over the Ti-Rant performance wise? Im not close minded to these two models. It just seems to be the way most folks are going.

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Based on the 7.62 KACs I have shot, NO! I have never even heard anyone on here contemplating a KAC can. For .45 it is usually between the Ti Rant and Osprey.

 

[BookHound]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I can't really comment on the pistols. But regarding the suppressors...

Before the TiRant and Osprey came along the KAC was the quietest dry .45ACP suppressor. Now not so much. It is still a very nice product. However, it is more expensive than the TiRant and Osprey and not as good of a performer. Also, KAC is still more military focused. I'd love to see them pushing more into the civilian markets because I do like their products. Still the current focus is much more heavily on military. As a result the civilian customer service from AAC and Silencerco is typically better.

Don't get me wrong, I love the KAC product and the good folks with whom I've had direct contact and interaction at KAC.

If you are trying to recreate a "packaged" solution like some military units have used, go for the KAC. If you are selecting a product more on performance and cost for that performance, the hands down winners are the AAC and Silencerco products.

The last thing you might want to consider, both AAC and Silencerco offer relatively inexpensive pistons in different thread patterns including popular 9mm and .40S&W patterns. Thus, you could always use those products on say a 9mm host. The performance you'll get on that kind of host is close to a dedicated caliber suppressor.

For example, this is a friend shooting my 45Osprey on my 9mm G19. It just adds some versatility.

Best of luck,

Mark

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BookHound</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't really comment on the pistols. But regarding the suppressors...

Don't get me wrong, I love the KAC product and the good folks with whom I've had direct contact and interaction at KAC.

If you are trying to recreate a "packaged" solution like some military units have used, go for the KAC. If you are selecting a product more on performance and cost for that performance, the hands down winners are the AAC and Silencerco products.

The last thing you might want to consider, both AAC and Silencerco offer relatively inexpensive pistons in different thread patterns including popular 9mm and .40S&W patterns. Thus, you could always use those products on say a 9mm host. The performance you'll get on that kind of host is close to a dedicated caliber suppressor.

For example, this is a friend shooting my 45Osprey on my 9mm G19. It just adds some versatility.

Best of luck,

Mark </div></div>

Mark has this 100% correct. I will sa that the KAC sounds great on the Mk23.

The Tirant and the Osprey are better performers and more versatile.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

So, can I change the piston and use the Ti-rant on the Mark23 and the Tactical? Thanks for all the info. so far guys.

 

[BookHound]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 317millhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, can I change the piston and use the Ti-rant on the Mark23 and the Tactical? Thanks for all the info. so far guys. </div></div>

Yes. For the record KAC makes 16mm left and right piston assemblies. The assemblies are pretty expensive though. They do NOT make a .578x28 or other thread patterns though. Again, their focus has always really been military.

Mark

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I think that I read on another forum that the KAC pistons were around $600 alone. Wow!!!

 

[BookHound]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

You read correctly. Yikes! Kinda makes the KAC stuff a "one trick pony". Too bad too. I really do like the products.

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 317millhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, can I change the piston and use the Ti-rant on the Mark23 and the Tactical? Thanks for all the info. so far guys. </div></div>

The tirant has pistons for 9mm, .45, .40 (inch and metric) and it comes apart for cleaning.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Ti-Rant it is. Now I just have to find out if AAC will sell on a form 4 or find a Class 3 dealer that wont rape me. I do have a type 1 FFL and Gemtech says that they will sell with a form 4, but the AAC site doesnt say. Does anyone know how much the pistons are for the Ti-Rant.

Wi

 

[cal50]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

+1 on the Osprey.

Tirant or Osprey is the way to go and I give the edge to Silencerco.

 

[KYS]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Osprey is where its at right now. I have one and am very impressed with its level of suppression for 45, 40, and 9mm.

Go for the Osprey!

 

[dragoon]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

The SWR HEMS2 performs well , although it does better wet , for a lot less than the KAC . The pistons are also more affordable ...

 

[BookHound]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dragoon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The SWR HEMS2 performs well , although it does better wet , for a lot less than the KAC . The pistons are also more affordable ... </div></div>

The HEMS 2 is certainly a nice product and prior to the Osprey and TiRant it and the HTG Cycle were (IMHO) the best 45ACP products available. However, it is nowhere close to the Osprey and TiRant is performance. I'm hopeful Henry and Matt will update the design a bit. The SWR folks are great people and make really good products.

Mark

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I placed my order for a Ti-Rant this morning. Just because I got a better deal on it and was able to buy it on a Form 3 with my FFL. I did not know I could do this, but apparantly its legal as long as I retain the FFL and do not sell the supressor. The rep. from AAC pointed me to a dealer to handle the transfer, and form 3's are getting approved in about 5 weeks. Anyone else ever heard of this? pistons are also only $50 so I ordered one for my Mark 23 and Tactical.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

If you are an 01 you should not be able to purchase a suppressor on a form 3, the form 3 will be for them to transfer it to another SOT, then you will do your form 4 through them.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

This is what I thought as well. However the distributor is telling me different. I know that I can purchase NFA items out of state with my type 01FFL and an approved form 4 as an individual. Never heard of being able to do it on a form 3 as a company. This certain distributor has been selling supressors for a long time, so Ill wait to see what happens. Ill probably be getting a call back saying that the salesman has made a mistake. I have not been able to find anything anywhere that says this practice is possible.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Osprey 45 is the shiznit!

 

[BookHound]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Wow, the angle of that picture makes the suppressor look way, way too long. Still a nice setup though.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

looks nice, and almost follows the lines of the gun

 

[300WSM]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

it does follow the lines of the gun. It kicks total ass

 

[KYS]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 317millhand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what I thought as well. However the distributor is telling me different. I know that I can purchase NFA items out of state with my type 01FFL and an approved form 4 as an individual. Never heard of being able to do it on a form 3 as a company. This certain distributor has been selling supressors for a long time, so Ill wait to see what happens. Ill probably be getting a call back saying that the salesman has made a mistake. I have not been able to find anything anywhere that says this practice is possible. </div></div>

If you don't have an SOT you wont be getting a suppressor directly. You will have go thru a licensed dealer.

 

[mavrick]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I have to say Osprey I have one in .45 and use it on a .40 and 9mm. Its a good set up.

 

[colt933]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Love my Ti-RANT .45. Quiet, light, excellent.

 

[Falar]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I'm torn between the Osprey and Ti-rant myself. I know the Ti-rant can be disassembled, can the Osprey? I guess since they are identical in every other aspect (including price) if that is one feature the Ti-rant alone has then maybe that will be the deciding factor.

 

[Tamu98]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Not that it matters to most people, but I believe that the Ti-rant is also full auto rated while the Osprey is not. Ti-rant is made of titanium while the Osprey is made of aluminum (11.5oz vs 11.1 oz in the .45). With that being said, I'm still waiting on my paperwork to clear for my 45Osprey. You really can't go wrong with either one and I will probably buy a Ti-rant in the future.

As a side note, I think that Silencerco has video of shooting the 300 Blackout through an Osprey on youtube and their site. Maybe not the best solution, but versitile.

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

yes the osprey can be taken apart for cleaning the biggest selling point for me is when shooting a 9mm with a 45 can vs a 9mm can there was only a 3 db difference so i plan on buying a 45 so i can use it on both

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

..

3dBs is a DOUBLING of the sound...as in twice as loud.

9mm cans for 9mm rounds, as the .45 can does not get it done.

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

just watched the video on silencerco.com
45 acp unsupressed average 162.33 db
45 acp supressed average 133.51
9mm unsupressed average 159.98
9mm with 45 can average 127.58
9mm with 9mm can average 124.95
so yep almost twice as loud but you only have to buy 1 silencer and 1 tax stamp to enable you to shoot 45,40 and 9mm

 

[Falar]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

GOod info

 

[cal50]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..

9mm cans for 9mm rounds, as the .45 can does not get it done.

</div></div>

A 32.4 DB drop is pretty good and better than some of the dedicated 9mm cans of "other" design.

If you really need those couple extra DB's a shot of wire pull gel works wonders.

Holding the can against your target works better......

 

[silentbushmaster]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I would go with the KAC.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

1shot, it would seem so but in actuality while it is better than nothing, if I was to have you shoot a 9-thru-.45 next to a dedicated 9mm you would set the 9-thru-.45 down and walk away. It is a big difference a sobering reminder that over bore really becomes a problem over 9mm. 9mm suppressors can be very quiet, one of the quietest and still reasonably powerful handgun rounds. I understand you want to save some $$ and shoot 9 and .45 thru a single can, but just know it doesn't compare to a dedicated can.

The gorilla in the room..KAC sucks. Anyone who thinks that "Before the TiRant and Osprey came along the KAC was the quietest dry .45ACP suppressor" has a career as a standup comedian ahead of them. It was and is what it was designed to be, the cheapest possible contract alternative. The core of the can came right out of an AWC when Mac transferred 2 fully functional .45 pistol suppressors to Reed as the starting point for the contract that was eventually awarded the SOCOM offensive handgun contract. Doug Olson, who went on to work for Reed for this project had been employed by AWC Systems Technology after leaving Qual-A-Tec. Mac walked away from the whole contract when it became clear that cost, not effective suppression was the goal of the program. Nobody and I mean not a single person that hears a KAC can next to any of the high end cans thinks the can is worth buying. In local news, when a local shop with very knowledgeable clients changed hands, there was a killer sale on cans, about 25 cans were sold in 24 hours, one brand was left of the shelf, KAC.

Everybody has their favorites, mine is cut out of a solid billet of Ti, deep penetration welded, forward purging, weighs less than anything mentioned thus far is FA rated, has access to the diffuser and first baffle, has brilliant tunable Neilson and whose ceramic epoxy finish alone takes longer than most others take to build their cans.

We can argue about whether any can in 2011 should have any aluminum in it, or what it actually happening with Ti and ceramics, or whether a volume based can the size of a canoe has any practical application, but KAC? KAC? Time to get real.

Its like this...but with worse welding...

compared to this...

This...an old pic, used for comic relief....there is a less expensive can here somewhere....

Compared to...3 hours of machining just for the strongest envelope extant, in Ti, with non-linear internal support and T.H.O.R.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Do you really need a "deep welded" pistol suppressor? I know the Tirant can come apart for cleaning if that is your thing and I have take apart a Opsrey 45 suppressor too and not a single weld on the whole suppressor.

And does anyone else think it's just unprofessional for another company's shill to come in and talk shit about another manufacturers product?

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Yes, you do, unless you want a world of cracked or popped spot welds. Centerfire cans that come apart for cleaning isn't a must, but because of a good Neilson, access is possible, if only for inspection.

As to being unprofessional or a shill or talking shit about another's product. I try to keep it factual, accurate and I am not a professional and I don't work for anybody, so I say it as I see it. I like what I like for the reasons stated. Sometimes one has to be around for decades to see where stuff came from, how it holds up, what the materials actual do over time. Your right, some of these cans are held together by threads and glue and with welding the most expensive part of any can, some run away with their hair on fire from it. These are cans, you should be getting what you pay for and have a clue what it is that you want. They should last a lifetime of hard use and salt water service. All the rest is just whining and mental masturbation.

Now, back to the real world, anything about what I wrote that you think is inaccurate? The man asked a question, I think one product absolutely sucks, IMO he should go the other way and be aware that there are some other products out there. You should here me rattle on about what I've really thought about aluminum envelopes...for decades.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Well I am glad to see that AWC thinks it's perfectly acceptable for someone out there to represent their company in such a manner. That speaks volumes about themselves and how they like to conduct themselves.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Didn't think so....

 

[cal50]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you really need a "deep welded" pistol suppressor? I know the Tirant can come apart for cleaning if that is your thing and I have take apart a Opsrey 45 suppressor too and not a single weld on the whole suppressor.

And does anyone else think it's just unprofessional for another company's shill to come in and talk shit about another manufacturers product? </div></div>


Deep welded needed?
Perhaps if something is designed wrong...

The silencer game is a competitive one to say the least today with the buyer having a lot of choices of top quality cans. There are several VERY good cans available and its really a mix of your intended use and pocket book to make a choice.

Getting back to the reference of "a .45 can is useless on a 9mm" or is does little to suppress it is a pretty foolish statement IMHO.

A 9mm dedicated can (Osprey) runs 126.4 Db.
9mm thru .45 osprey / wet averages:124.47

That is a tad lower than the dedicated 9mm can. If you need a limited number of shots with no first round pop 5~10cc of wire pull gel gives you performance BETTER than the 9mm dedicated can.

A dry .45 can firing 9mm thru it is still hearing safe and a good amount of reduction. Naturally IF you require the most suppression buy two (or three) cans in your dedicated caliber.
To say the Osprey or Tirant is not effective swapping calibers is just a stretch of reality or metering numbers.

No dog in the fight of "who's best" and I have owned several cans from various manufactures all of varying construction and a couple form 1 cans self built. Its all good with some a tad better or worse in specific situations.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Deep welding isn't anything other than the best welding, period. If your going to weld, do it properly. Full auto capable cans in say .45 or 9mm may require welding, most do.

Where did the quote "a .45 can is useless on a 9mm" I have yet to read it on this thread? If your talking about my comments, they were two fold "9mm cans for 9mm rounds, as the .45 can does not get it done" and "while it is better than nothing, if I was to have you shoot a 9-thru-.45 next to a dedicated 9mm you would set the 9-thru-.45 down and walk away."

Tough to have it both ways...quote the "wet" .45 used with 9mm and then suggest that going to wire gel somehow is better. No wet .45 can of similar proportionality shot with 9mm will compare to a wet 9mm can. Tail gas jet chase makes sure of this, regardless of internal volume in the specs we are talking about. If a can can be shot wet, one should do it for a host a reasons. Your numbers are close to a doubling of sound pressure, as it twice as loud and you will hear it. Its a simple but important point. Dedicated cans are twice as quiet in 9mm, we agree on that point. Some may want to believe that a .45 can is quieter than a companies 9mm can, but that is where we should be talking about a can being "designed wrong."

As to the hearing safe argument...

Hearing safe...again...at 130 dBs..
80 dB within 24 hrs. is SAFE.

From here on down its allowable within 24 hours...

82 dB 16 hrs.
85 dB 8 hrs.
88 dB 4 hrs.
91 dB 2 hrs.
94 dB 1 hr.
97 dB 30 mins.
100 dB 15 mins.
103 dB 8 mins.
106 dB 4 mins.
109 dB 2 mins.
112 dB 1 min.
115 dB 30 secs.
118 dB 15 secs.
121 dB 8 secs.
124 dB 4 secs.
127 dB 2 secs.
130 dB 1 sec. (within 24 hours)


Some folks think they can spend all day banging away at 128-130, they can, of course, but it is not hearing safe, never was.

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

the direction i am was going in is the man wanted to know what can he should get to mount on his new toy my suggestion was the osprey because of its ability to be used on multiple calibers i am not saying using a 9mm through a 45 can is the best way to go but it is still is sub 130 db and that is what sells me on it hence why i threw out the suggestion there may be a some cans that are better but few things in life are both unique and useful i feel the osprey is and that is why i plan on buying one

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

There you go...seems like an excellent plan.

 

[cal50]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the direction i am was going in is the man wanted to know what can he should get to mount on his new toy my suggestion was the osprey because of its ability to be used on multiple calibers i am not saying using a 9mm through a 45 can is the best way to go but it is still is sub 130 db and that is what sells me on it hence why i threw out the suggestion there may be a some cans that are better but few things in life are both unique and useful i feel the osprey is and that is why i plan on buying one </div></div>


You nailed it.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

ill let you guys know how the ti rant works in a few months. Also gives me a good excuse to buy a .45 carbine as well. On a side note, I fired both pistols this evening and the USP tactical shot much better than the Mark 23. ODD or maybe just me?????

 

[Falar]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

The USP Tactical does have the match trigger, so that could be the difference.

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

I do believe the trigger is the main factor as well. The tactical has an extremely nice trigger pull when compared to the MARK23

 

[LRB45]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Does the Silencerco suppressor allow the use of the factory sights on a Glock? Or does someone have to get taller sights?

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRB45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the Silencerco suppressor allow the use of the factory sights on a Glock? Or does someone have to get taller sights? </div></div>

watch this video

http://www.silencerco.com/?section=Media&page=Videos&video=45Osprey-Hot-Test

 

[317millhand]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

After 5 weeks I finally found out for sure what you guys were telling me. That I cannot buy a supressor on a form 3, being a title 1 dealer. So Im back to square 1. I can buy direct out of state on a form 4, but most dealers are not willing to do that. So, what Im gonna do now is to apply for my Class 3 and go from there.

 

[Silenced America]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRB45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the Silencerco suppressor allow the use of the factory sights on a Glock? Or does someone have to get taller sights? </div></div>

Glock sights do not clear. They are right about even. I use the Advantage Tactical sights on my Glocks and XDs. They work great and aren't extremely high. This photo is with a Ti-RANT .45 on an XD .40. The sights clear by about 1/16"

Here is an Osprey on the same XD. The entire sight clears.

 

[David Hineline]

Re: Ti-Rant or KAC for Mark 23

Depending upon the entire gross sales of your business per year, then your SOT will be either $500 reduced or $1000 full. So make sure you check the correct box. Every year your renewal SOT will be checked by BATFE for $1000 and if you qualify for reduced you just cross that out and check $500.

Also it goes by cakebdar year not by application date so if you pay the SOT now it will be due again July 1st. If you qualify to be an AccuSport dealer they now handle AAC and SilencerCo products once you get your SOT.