Time for something new, can't decide between Tikka and CZ457

[rcmigpilot]

I think it's time for my Savage 93R17 with a Nikon Monarch scope to find a new home. There's a pretty large gun show nearby this weekend and I'd like to use the Savage as a trade on a new 22LR, but can't decide which one. I'm looking for a quality, moderately priced bolt action (already have a nice 10/22) to punch paper and since I'm just a casual shooter who doesn't compete I don't need a Voodoo or similar, as nice as they may be. Based on what I've seen here and on RFC over the past few months I've narrowed it down to a Tikka T1, CZ 457 MTR or 457 American. While whichever I get will probably eventually end up in a chassis, I'd like to otherwise keep it reasonably stock. I went down the mod rabbit hole a few years ago with my 10/22 and don't want to do that again. I've read through both threads and since there are pros and cons for all 3 I'm coming up even. While the T1 appears to shoot great and I like that it will fit any stock or chassis made for the T3, I'm not sure I like the factory stock and there have been some reports of FTE issues. The 457 MTR looks like a real shooter, but I think the factory stock is just plain ugly. I really like the classic looks of the 457 American, but how much accuracy am I giving up to the T3 and MTR? Open to opinions and would especially like to hear from anyone with experience with more than one of the rifles.

 

[EddieE]

I have a tikka t3x and the action on it is incredible. So, based on that I would try the T1x. I have heard mixed reviews on the 457...some really good.

 

[flatland1]

I bought my first .22RF CZ late this past January when I got a 457 American. I'd wanted to try a CZ .22RF for years, but it wasn't until I started seeing online photos of the new 457s that the very attractive appearance of the American sporter tripped my trigger and one was purchased. The American's bbl was a lemon I guess, as I had no success getting it to shoot under 2 MOA groups - even with proven good lots of SK Rifle Match & Lapua Center-X. Eventually, I pulled the original bbl and dialed it in carefully to cut a precision 11* crown - that did help a little in reducing how far out the fliers in groups were, but didn't get me where I wanted to be. I also adjusted the trigger down to just over a pound for a very crisp, clean break, and experimented with action screw torque - the 457's trigger is really very good or even excellent, especially when compared to other factory offerings. But I finally gave up on the factory bbl & replaced it with a Shilen select match ratchet rifled blank that I contoured, chambered, and glued-in. I now have a very good-looking rifle that shoots at least as good as it looks, and has a threaded muzzle.

Unlike the OP, I really like the appearance of the MTR's stock, and having read about the 'match' chamber of the MTR's bbl, I wanted one badly. Wasn't able to find one in stock until a couple of months after I'd bought the American, but now have both. All I did before shooting the MTR was to adjust the trigger (this one easily went to just under a pound), and install a BScar 25 MOA scope rail. I had a spare Athlon Cronus scope sitting here in the office after selling the 40X repeater that it was on, so it found a new home on the MTR. This rifle shot very respectable groups right out of the box, and was just as reliable as the American 457 in feeding, extracting, & ejecting 100% of the time, something I appreciate very much. I put 400-450rds through the MTR, and found it to be close to as accurate on steel at 200yds as my custom barreled 40XB & V-22 repeaters with Bartlein, Krieger, & ACE bbls.

However, being kind of a picky old fart from shooting those custom bbls, I wasn't quite satisfied, so bought a .850" straight Shilen and did the same work on it as I had on the American's Shilen. I haven't had the chance to shoot as much with the new Shilen as I'd like, but early indications are that it's going to shoot good enough to be worth the time, effort, and $$ it took to purchase &install it .

I had a case of the hots a few months ago for one of the new Tikka T1x rifles, but after getting the two CZs up & running with their Shilen bbls, I think I'm done for awhile. I'm very pleased with the appearance of both my CZs - try to find another company that makes such fine-looking .22RF rifles that run with 100% reliability, and that shoot as good as the Varmint MTR did with its original bbl in this price range. Sure, my American's bbl was a lemon, but for all I know, a call to CZ-USA's customer service desk might well have solved the problem for a lot less $$$ than putting a new custom bbl on it. These actions are substantial & solid, with excellent triggers, and perfect function. The wood on both of mine is very attractive, and I'm not likely to turn loose of either one of them.

 

[Rutter]

This one looks the part

 

[Lmatt]

I picked the T1x due to commonality. Once I dropped it into a ctr stock that is. I don’t think you can go wrong either way(unless you get a lemon).

 

[rookie7]

A few things I have learned here and elsewhere over the decades:

1. Roll the dice - nothing is perfect even though we want them to be

2. When people say "You'll really like this, you'll be satisfied, etc. " - they are wrong.

3. Only you will know if you like said rifle or not - and the truth is - only after you have spent time with the rifle will you know if it is right for you

I bought the CZ 457 Pro Varmint. I am satisfied. I am glad I purchased it over a Ruger, 100%.

To me - the CZ feels and presents quality. The Ruger is just another 22, and I just got another new Ruger yesterday for shooting coyotes.

I bought their 8335 .22 mag. I don't care if it doesn't feel as good or look as good as the CZ or Tikka. It will be a backdoor rifle for shooting coyotes.

I chose the CZ over the Tikka for my NRL 22 rifle because I like the heavier barrel.

I love the action, the safety, and the look.

I bought the Area 419 rail for mine (even though I didn't want to spend that much money, but I think it has a better connection to the receiver than others, PST Gen 2, and Seekins rings.

 

[rookie7]

The first outing with my 457.

25 yards, Federal Auto Match, Harris bipod, rear bag.

2nd and third groups thru the rifle.

I have been shooting steel since.

 

[rookie7]

Those are 5 shot groups.

 

[EddieE]

Those are 5 shot groups.

It's a keeper.

 

[rookie7]

It's a keeper.

I agree. Thanks!

 

[garandman]

My 457 MTR *was* an 8 - 11mm gun at 50 yards. I was disappointed.

Since got it re-barrelled (Lilja) , ordered an MPA chassis, and am waiting for all that to come back to me.

The 457 has VERY few chassis options. Lotta ppl thinking about making one. MPA does, and (supposedly) MDT, but no one will call me back on that one.

 

[garandman]

Aftermarket nob...

 

[Jjviperzar1]

I am glad you started this forum. I am following it as I’m looking at buying one of these two myself.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Guess I might as well toss in my 2 cents. First off, I own several guns from many manufacturers so I am not brand prejudice or brand racist. I will praise a product when it's worthy and criticize when it deserves it. I have four CZ 452 but no 455's and no 457's. I am saying this to show that I have a few CZ's and like them, (like their pistols better).

I'm going out on a limb and making the bold prediction that the Tikka T1x will take over the rimfire world in no more than 2 years. I believe it has the combinations to do that. Doesn't cost a lot, (way less that $500) fantastic rifle right out of the box with really no need to do anything except add rings or a rail and rings and a scope. IMO the heart of the rifle, "receiver, bolt and trigger" are way better than anything out there in its price range and better than a lot of rifles above its price range.

The receiver, not much to say here except it has a button bolt release, "I believe CZ has this now on the 457" the top is drilled and tapped for scope rings for that sleek look. It is also dovetailed for 11mm rings or for a base which is also attached with the by the drilled holes. I will say that DIP's rail slides underneath the dovetail while some others do not.

The bolt, the bolt lift is very easy and glides extremely smooth and effortlessly in both directions. When feeding rounds from the magazine it's like working the bolt without a mag even in the rifle, it's just that smooth. Bolt closure is also very easy, this combination makes for a very fast and easy manipulation of the bolt. The only 457 bolts I have worked have been in stores. It is my experience that the bolt manipulation of a 457 is subpar when compared to the Tikka. That's my personal feelings and what my hand/arm tells my brain. You 457 owners, don't get upset, you may think totally the opposite and that's ok too. Some people have reported issues with ejection. Out of the three I have one did have minor issues (3 out of 10 FTE) that was fixed the first day on the first try by me. I am saying that not to brag but to show that it can be fixed and fixed at home, not the factory. That was my experience anyway.

The trigger...the trigger on all three of mine are at 1 lb 1 oz to 1 lb 5oz. Two have an aftermarket spring and one does not. All three are very consistent with zero creep and zero overtravel. I consider the triggers better than my 1710 and 1712 Anschutz. My triggers are safe, I've shot thousands of rounds (after adjustments) and never had a sear release on closing the bolt. Also, if for some reason you are not happy with the trigger the same trigger for the Tikka T3x also drops in the T1x. Many more trigger options than a 457.

The stock, although really good, Tikka didn't invest a lot of money in the stock. IMO, they did that to keep cost down and they thought people would want to invest in an aftermarket chassis anyway. My KRG Bravo is made for the T1x but I know numerous of people have taken the T3x chassis/stocks and with very minor modifications made them work for their T1x. Many more stock options than a 457.

Magazines, IMO they don't get any better, ten rounds standard vs five for most rifles, so small in size, you can put a few in your front pocket, tapered at the top so insertion is a can't miss, really easy to load and not as expensive as most magazines. The crybabies over on RFC talk about the mags hanging down and looking bad. The main ones are the clique members who think CZ shit don't stink. They have nothing else to criticize the rifle over so they talk about the magazine. The extended section "if you want to call it that" is a very very nice feature. You can seat that mag very quickly and positively and that's all because of the extended section hanging down. CZ makes 10 round mags, I have some. The are easy to load rounds in, they are long and narrower than the Tikka's but they are not nearly as easy to insert, 5 rounders are no different, you have to "feel" for the mag slot. At least I have to, some of you may be better than I am at that.

The barrel, the barrel comes threaded and the factory barrels are pretty accurate right out of the box. The barrels are user replaceable just like the 457's are. Right now there are no aftermarket barrel manufacturers in the US that I am aware of. IBI in Canada is making them now but they do not have their import licenses at this time.

I have three Tikka T1x's, two 22's and one 17 HMR. One of the 22's (least accurate) is being customized. Currently all I have for it is the KRG Bravo stock but will be adding the Sterk swept bolt handle and a DIP trigger shoe. I already have one DIP trigger shoe and highly recommend it if that's your thing. I also have a DIP bolt handle that I really like, I'll probably get another one of those too. Last item will be an IBI barrel from Canada when they receive their import license. I believe more and more aftermarket parts will start popping up for the Tikka and it will do for bolt actions what the 10/22 did for semi autos. Here are photos showing mine and their capabilities. This is a small sample but significant enough to have meaning. The last photo is the 17 HMR at 55 yards, all 10 shot groups with different ammo.

Remember, I'm not here to start a pissing contest or make anyone mad. Just trying to shed some light on the new kid on the block, the Tikka T1x.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I want to add a few more photos since I can only add 10 in one post. I want to show the bolt lift as well as a few other features. If anyone has questions just ask.

 

[rookie7]

My future plan is get the T1X in 17hmr.

I have handled one at Cabela’s and really like it and want one.

The only area I would say is inaccurate from @Kisssofdeath is where he said the Tikka is “way less than 500”.

Cheapest I have seen it $439 online, and it’s $479 in my town at brick n mortar stores.

 

[littlepod]

I have a Tikka T1X, also was in the same position as choosing between the 457 and the T1X. My first bolt was a T3X CTR, and I think I was super spoiled thinking the actions would be as smooth as the T3X.

The design with the ejector spring does cause some friction on the bolt, so it just doesn't slide out on it's own if you're tilting the rifle. So it's not like butter with zero friction. But cycling the action through normal usage is really smooth. I've only compared against the Ruger in practice, and the Ruger RPR is really bad.

Accuracy wise, I wish I had a 50 yd range to compare with everyone else, mine only does 25 and 100. 25 is pretty boring shooting a single hole, so everything I do is @ 100. Currently on the 6x5 I've done 1.03" avg with SK Standard Plus, and .86" average with Eley Match. It doesn't come close to the Vudoo scores yet, but I will have to try some pricier ammo like Midas+ and Long Range Match.

Total cost though for me to get the right feel was a good amount.
$469 rifle
$40 for the DIP 25moa Rail
$400 for the KRG Bravo

So basically $900 ignoring re-usable accessories (bipod, scope, etc).

I do wish it had a bull barrel. Also I don't think the extra length helps at all on a .22 though I've grown to appreciate that it's more or less the same length as my .308.

In terms of FTE, the first day I had a few, and since then I think I've had 1 in the last 200 rounds. It is a little finicky. My partner sometimes cycles the bolt a little reluctantly, like she'll unlock the bolt, and slowly pull it out and then it'll basically start ejecting but get stuck. If she cycles it normally, no issue. And sometimes the last round of the magazine, so for example, shoot 10, leave casing in... and load a new magazine, and the existing casing doesn't eject properly when I'm cycling the new mag.

The great thing though, is Tikka will eventually fix this... I think their formula for everything else is great, so a little tweak on their ejector design will make this perfect.

Re-usable T3 parts is also a big +, can swap triggers across all my Tikka rifles, no problem. Right now it's sitting @ 1lb with the $10 spring. I can also put my 1lb 2-stage Timney in my T3X into it.

If I was really cost conscious, I would possibly consider the varmint at-one. For $600 ish, I don't know if I could say the Tikka is 30-50% more value...

For people who tinker and want something to train like their centerfire, putting the T1X in a Bravo, is probably as close as I'm going to get unless going V22...

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Littlepod,

When you say

It doesn't come close to the Vudoo scores yet

what is the difference in the scores?

 

[littlepod]

At least looking at the 6x5, people are posting .492" 6x5's at 100 yards. and 0.182" @ 50 yards. (This is avg, not best group). Curious how much a tuned barrel on the T1X would change it up. Like how much does the action itself decide on the accuracy.

Looking at the ~avg vudoo score, it seems people are probably around 0.6". I was able to do 0.85" at 100 with some Eley ammo, so maybe it's not that far off. I'm avging 1-1.1" on Standard Plus. I have a few boxes of Long Range Match coming this week to try out.

So far...
1-1.1" SK+ (Tested with so far with 4 6x5's)
1-1.1" Center-X (2 6x5's) Though if I ignored my randomly bad groups, the general group size is tighter on center-x than SK+
1.25" CCI SV (2 6x5's)
0.85" Eley Match (Only had 1 box)

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Six 5-shot groups at 50 yards that average .182" is incredible.

 

[littlepod]

Yeh... so I wonder how much an action has to do with it, vs the barrel etc. Tikka T1x + $500 match tuned barrel, would it come close? No idea. The V22's are $1800 for a barreled action.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

IDK, but if I had to guess the barrel would be the weak link. If people are averaging under .2" for 30 shots I would say that's just as good if not better than $5 to $7K custom bench guns. I don't shoot my Anschutz that good. I can get them down to around .350" but that's probably it being realistic about it. I'm talking ten 5-shot groups too, not six. Something like the below groups are about the best I can do. Nothing even close to averaging .250" much less .182". The center of my bullseye is .250". That would mean every shot from a V22 would have to fall in that circle. The 10 ring on the IR50/50 target is .250". I'd have to shoot one myself to believe it I guess. Maybe Mike Bush will send me one to try out.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Weird, not sure how they posted twice. I did something I'm sure.

 

[littlepod]

Are you subtracting out the bullet diameter? Sorry when they are measuring groups on the 6x5, they subtract max to max edge - .22.

Example:

 

[Kisssofdeath]

I see what the difference is, It's how I measure my groups vs. how other measure then deduct .223. Example, I just measured a group shot today and my way of measuring gives me 3/16" which would be .187 but measuring with my digital calipers I get .134" after deducting .223". I just made myself feel better LOL. For awhile there I was thinking, "maybe I just can't shoot with a damn". Then again, maybe I still can't.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Posted about the same time I guess.

 

[littlepod]

Yeh the digital caliper of .22 is a little larger than the burn marks seen on paper. I've been using Range Buddy app on my phone to do everything and I find that pretty accurate, assuming you digital caliper the paper properly to set the ruler correctly. So using the range buddy app, this is more accurate imo:

 

[Kisssofdeath]

The measurement is taken from the furthest most points. Here is my example, the photo with ruler is a little more to the left than it should be. I believe it was more camera angle than anything else. On the calipers I already had .223 deducted before the measurement. Is the range buddy a free app for Android phones?

 

[littlepod]

The measurement is taken from the furthest most points. Here is my example, the photo with ruler is a little more to the left than it should be. I believe it was more camera angle than anything else. On the calipers I already had .223 deducted before the measurement. Is the range buddy a free app for Android phones?

Yep it is. A little rough around the edges but it works.

Have every group since I got my T1X. Improving as a shooter with the same ammo every week.

 

[Face]

A few things I have learned here and elsewhere over the decades:

1. Roll the dice - nothing is perfect even though we want them to be

2. When people say "You'll really like this, you'll be satisfied, etc. " - they are wrong.

3. Only you will know if you like said rifle or not - and the truth is - only after you have spent time with the rifle will you know if it is right for you

I bought the CZ 457 Pro Varmint. I am satisfied. I am glad I purchased it over a Ruger, 100%.

To me - the CZ feels and presents quality. The Ruger is just another 22, and I just got another new Ruger yesterday for shooting coyotes.

I bought their 8335 .22 mag. I don't care if it doesn't feel as good or look as good as the CZ or Tikka. It will be a backdoor rifle for shooting coyotes.

I chose the CZ over the Tikka for my NRL 22 rifle because I like the heavier barrel.

I love the action, the safety, and the look.

I bought the Area 419 rail for mine (even though I didn't want to spend that much money, but I think it has a better connection to the receiver than others, PST Gen 2, and Seekins rings.

How does the rail attach to the forend?

 

[littlepod]

How does the rail attach to the forend?

I think he meant rail for the scope - https://www.area419.com/product/cz457-scope-base/

 

[littlepod]

Now this would've been a sweet package -- https://www.area419.com/product/cz-457-manners-elite-package/

 

[tinman52]

No need to anguish over it. Get both. I did