TL3 Vs Origin, what am i sacrificing?

[Casey_H]

As the title says, I'm looking to hear from folks who own Bighorn/Zermatt TL3's and Origins.

I'm looking to order a barreled action through Patriot Valley. The price difference is about $600. I want to know what I'm sacrificing going with the Origin action over the tried and true TL3

 

[Jlknights61]

TL3:
- 416 stainless (optional DLC)
- integral recoil lug
- choice of rail cant
- Choice of Tang
- optional AW mag cut (SA only), single shot, AICS (feed ramps determined by selection)

Origin:
- nitride chromemoly Receiver
- pinned 20moa rail only
- pinned recoil lug
- trim tang only
- Remington style feed ramps
- Swept bolt

Both have:
- CRF
- Savage small shank thread
- bayonet Style firing pin assembly
- floating interchangeable bolt head
- mechanical ejector

I don’t think I missed anything, also all this info is available on their website.

My understanding is the origin is held to the same tolerances and standards as the TL3 you just don’t have nearly as many options when specing it out.

 

[b6graham]

AW versus AICS
Swept versus straight bolt handle

The rest is trivial

fwiw theres only a $425 difference in price idk where they get $600 from

The origin can use TL3 barrels easier than the other way but both are possible

 

[Big Timber]

Are they both 2 lug 90 degree bolts?

 

[lead ƒarmer]

From my experience with the two, the TL3 also seems to need much less trigger timing to get that optimal feel. Also, the cocking ramp angle is different between the two, but this is something most people would never notice. I love both of the actions, very smooth and endless caliber options with additional bolt heads.

 

[FCrifles]

One other difference is the Origin has more firing pin fall, around .230"ish compared to .190" ish.

The Origin punches quite a bit above the price IMHO.

 

[bodhisafa]

Is there anyway to get the origin to “feel” like the TL3? When it comes to timing the trigger or will there always be a difference no matter the timing ?

 

[b6graham]

Is there anyway to get the origin to “feel” like the TL3? When it comes to timing the trigger or will there always be a difference no matter the timing ?

Any poorly timed action isn't gonna feel as nice as a timed one.

 

[bodhisafa]

Any poorly timed action isn't gonna feel as nice as a timed one.

What I am asking if both the origin and the TL3 are timmed properly, the best they can be , will the origin feel like the TL3 or will there be difference still?

 

[Zermatt Arms]

What I am asking if both the origin and the TL3 are timmed properly, the best they can be , will the origin feel like the TL3 or will there be difference still?

The Origin will always have a slightly stiffer bolt lift than the TL3 will. That's because the Origin has more firing pin fall AND a steeper extraction cam angle. When re-cocking the bolt, the Origin has to move a farther linear difference at a steeper angle.

Bolt close can be made nearly identical between the two.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. Thank you - Ray

 

[King_beardsly]

I’ve got both and you can’t go wrong with either one but if you can swing the TL get one. You can pretty much make it exactly what you want with all the options available.

 

[Mr. F]

Not to hijack but where do i find a guide on tuning specific actions to triggers?

Or is it a "by feel kind of thing with the sear screw adjustment"?

 

[JLP.Payette]

Is there anyway to get the origin to “feel” like the TL3? When it comes to timing the trigger or will there always be a difference no matter the timing ?

You can measure how much your trigger is cocking and let them know and they will send you a new cocking piece. My dad has an Origin and the bolt close was pretty hard, it was over cocking by 0.030". We ordered a 0.030' undersize cocking piece and now its super smooth. Its an easy swap but if your not up to doing the work yourself they will take care of it if you send them the action and trigger.

 

[Kimber.204]

The Origin will always have a slightly stiffer bolt lift than the TL3 will. That's because the Origin has more firing pin fall AND a steeper extraction cam angle. When re-cocking the bolt, the Origin has to move a farther linear difference at a steeper angle.

This is why I chose the TL3. I had a TL3, sold it to try something else - big mistake. Picked up a used/like new Origin owned if for exactly 1 day before I posted it for sale. If I was using it for a hunting action I wouldn't hesitate, but that notably heavier bolt lift would really disturb my natural point of aim for follow up shots. Upon inspection it looked like it was really moving the firing pin a long way to cock it, I called Zermatt and they confirmed that it cocks further and steeper than the TL3 for more reliable ignition.

I ended up getting a brand new TL3 from Brownells on Black Friday. It is fully coated and out of the box it is as slick as my used/uncoated TL3 that had several thousand rounds through it.
Also, as a side note, the TL3 bolt is essentially a 50/50 bolt. It is approximately the same force to lift the bolt as it is to close the bolt. It is very smooth and consistent.

Prone/Bipod only - Origin
Hunting - Origin
Competition - TL3 .

Really, you can't go wrong with either - it's just personal preference. I own other custom actions and you're not leaving anything on the table with either the TL3 or Origin.

Regards,
Ross

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I have an Origin. It had .025 cock on close. They sent me the correct cocking piece for free. That made it very nice. I installed the low BnA sear and now it is nothing short of amazing.

I was told the rails are interchangeable.

 

[b6graham]

i send trigger right to bighorn when i order an action. they time it there no issue

 

[catalyst81]

I have an Origin. It had .025 cock on close. They sent me the correct cocking piece for free. That made it very nice. I installed the low BnA sear and now it is nothing short of amazing.

I was told the rails are interchangeable.

How do you measure the cock on close and how do you know if a new cocking piece is necessary?

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

How do you measure the cock on close and how do you know if a new cocking piece is necessary?

Measure the firing pin protrusion at the back of the bolt with the handle up. Then measure with the handle down. If you have more protrusion with the handle down you have some cock on close.

You can also SLOWLY remove material from the cocking piece until you get to a point where there is no difference between bolt up and bolt down.

 

[Scotch_egg]

Do both run AW mags equally well?

 

[b6graham]

Do both run AW mags equally well?

the origin doesnt run them at all

the TL3 may or may not, as is same with all 2 lugs

 

[Scotch_egg]

the origin doesnt run them at all

the TL3 may or may not, as is same with all 2 lugs

thank you for the reply. I thought they both ran AW mags.

I’m very tempted with a TL3 myself and wanted to run the AW mag.

 

[King_beardsly]

I’m running a TL3 with the aw cut with aics mags and it’s a beast but I’ve yet to try aw’s

 

[kthomas]

i send trigger right to bighorn when i order an action. they time it there no issue

I think it's awesome that Bighorn/Zermatt provides that service.

 

[kthomas]

I have an Origin. It had .025 cock on close. They sent me the correct cocking piece for free. That made it very nice. I installed the low BnA sear and now it is nothing short of amazing.

I was told the rails are interchangeable.

The BnA's certainly provide the benefit of being able to "time" the trigger at home without sending it off to a gunsmith/manufacturer or without use of a trigger hanger.

Very smart design feature that I wish more trigger companies would incorporate.

 

[King_beardsly]

I contacted ray about timing my origin and I gave him the over cocking measurements only to get a package a few days later with the appropriate cocking piece to fix it.

 

[catalyst81]

Measure the firing pin protrusion at the back of the bolt with the handle up. Then measure with the handle down. If you have more protrusion with the handle down you have some cock on close.

You can also SLOWLY remove material from the cocking piece until you get to a point where there is no difference between bolt up and bolt down.

Thanks for the help. I'm right at around .025" for my Origin as well.