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To those who say lower cost guns aren't "accurate"..
- Thread starter Mcrider55
- Start date
I almost did a spit take with my coffee. Better luck next time, though.
Well done, a most piquant bon mot.
Is the purpose for this thread to say one can get lucky sometimes when buying a factory rifle.
Or is it..
Or is it..
We made it to Page 7!!!!
Legendary Thread Status is confirmed!
Sirhr
In my world, the REAL shooters were/are Carlos Hathcock and Chuck Mawwhinney.
I doubt you have a clue who they were and what they accomplished in a time before you were born and they did so without your gadgets, notebooks, ballistic calcs and all the rest you want to offer up.
Pure skill.
Well now that you bring that up, what about Albert Waldron?
Mawhinney
Thanks. I was just wondering how the LRP shot. I have the LRPV in .223, even though still a Savage and all that means to folks here, definitely not down on the Axis level of entry budget rifles. It has 1K + rounds through it, no issues ( other than the guy that`s trying to shoot it! ) other than a stiffer bolt lift than I would prefer but that doesn`t bother me personally. Much fun at 500 at 5" and 4" gongs.
You can bet White Feather took excellent condition records, ie used a notebook.
So you think Carlos Hathcock didnt use dope cards, notes, or bags?
If we are going to talk tactical, then I should advise that my call sign is Senor Pendejo.
The book suggested was my first book on long range shooting and I like it and Frank's book the best.
So, Cleckner, formerly sniper team leader in the Rangers 1/75, explained his tactical shooting. It was not about trying to take out an X at unknown distance. It was about putting rounds in to stop the enemy. Which is why he chose the .300 WM for in-service. It handled the wind better than a .308. Out to a bit past 400 yards, he could dial elevation and then hold right or left edge of an IPSC zone into the wind and get a hit.
In a podcast with Erik Cortina and even with others, he has stated he would not win a PRS or any kind of precision competition. But give him a solid 1 MOA rifle and yes, he can hit a 10.5 inch target at 1,000, if needs be.
His book is full of great advice and everytime my shooting starts to suck, I go back to the basics.
But tactical military style shooting is not what this forum is about, in my experience. That is regardless of Frank's past military job and he does not talk about that and I have never seen him talk about training people to do what he did in the Marines. He is about precision shooting, hitting those evil paper targets and obnoxious steel plates that need to be rung. And a strong advocate for the Chlamydia Action (Sniper AF.)
I would say if the OP is not interested in the topics of discussion and standards here, then he is in the wrong place.
Senor Pendejo (Culo Gigante to my friends) out.
I should share my credentials.
The book suggested was my first book on long range shooting and I like it and Frank's book the best.
So, Cleckner, formerly sniper team leader in the Rangers 1/75, explained his tactical shooting. It was not about trying to take out an X at unknown distance. It was about putting rounds in to stop the enemy. Which is why he chose the .300 WM for in-service. It handled the wind better than a .308. Out to a bit past 400 yards, he could dial elevation and then hold right or left edge of an IPSC zone into the wind and get a hit.
In a podcast with Erik Cortina and even with others, he has stated he would not win a PRS or any kind of precision competition. But give him a solid 1 MOA rifle and yes, he can hit a 10.5 inch target at 1,000, if needs be.
His book is full of great advice and everytime my shooting starts to suck, I go back to the basics.
But tactical military style shooting is not what this forum is about, in my experience. That is regardless of Frank's past military job and he does not talk about that and I have never seen him talk about training people to do what he did in the Marines. He is about precision shooting, hitting those evil paper targets and obnoxious steel plates that need to be rung. And a strong advocate for the Chlamydia Action (Sniper AF.)
I would say if the OP is not interested in the topics of discussion and standards here, then he is in the wrong place.
Senor Pendejo (Culo Gigante to my friends) out.
I should share my credentials.
There are so many who are unknown for their incredible bravery and skills. To me, this is the epitome of long range shooting. A man, his gun, and his knowledge in his head.
All joking aside this is the problem with social media
It gave everyone a platform to speak “their truth” and 90% is incorrect or out dated info
Until the advent of the internet information was held and coveted for correctness.
Now it’s a fudd free for all.
And because it’s an easy search like you said, the actual new guy looking for help is lost in the weeds.
On this site alone you’ll have people argue with champion winning shooters (not top 20 local shooters) top smiths in the industry and the actual mfg of the product they designed and built.
Some other sites are heavy handed which is why this site is so popular, but they run you off for posting moronic info
Excellent. I’m certain we all concur. There are also REAL shooters from the GWOT and they used all the tools at their disposal to use any advantage they could. The 2 snipers you mentioned also used every tool that gave them the upper hand.
Best thing was there was no collateral damage! I hit that mouse clean! This story got me into the CIA special forces at 13yrs old with an age waiver and I got to skip bootcamp and go straight into clandestine sniper ops. Please don't ask for evidence because my DD-214 is classified...
Think you need to dig deeper, into why he was pulled from the field, with such a high count.
The reason why people pay good money on their equipment is because of the repeatability of the system. Save your money up and buy something decent.
Some here are asking to see your results over more than a 1 shot group.
I would bet that you would really be surprised in your skill set if you actually tried the dot target that has been suggested sir.
That being said, I really do enjoy shooting my Tikka .223, but that's not the gun I would grab if shit hit the fan....
Some here are asking to see your results over more than a 1 shot group.
I would bet that you would really be surprised in your skill set if you actually tried the dot target that has been suggested sir.
That being said, I really do enjoy shooting my Tikka .223, but that's not the gun I would grab if shit hit the fan....
Just so you know, no where on the net that I know of, is the back story about him told, and wackypedia does not have a clue. Franks first words in this thread should be taken to heart.
Sir, if you go to Team Savage on Savages website. You will see my old ugly mug.
The Savage company is run by very nice people who want to make a good product for price points everyone can enjoy shooting They don’t put down other products or people Not the Savage way. Some things are not as good as they could be made because they have to meet certain price points but the systems offer a great bang for the buck. Love the rifles. Love the people.
I used to compete at a high level but retired from that a few years ago and teach now. I guess the reason Savage still keeps me around is because I tell them the good and the bad as I see it. They want there rifles to
Be as good as they can be while still making price points the general public can afford. This is one of the reasons I agreed to
Be a member of team Savage in the first place. When I no longer carried a weapon for a living I could not justify the cost. Take family on vacation and shoot a savage or no vacation and shoot custom. I don’t think I am the only one making these decisions
Many of the Custom rifles are made out of the best of the best and the prices reflect it. Customs start as that smiths attempt at the best and they set the price latter based on materials and labor. You want it you pay a bunch. Factories set goals. Price and use
To compare a stock factory rifle to a custom is like bringing a Ford Police Car to 24 Hrs at LeMans. Not a fair comparison. That does not make the Ford a bad car but it can not compete on that level
In the old days we competed with stock Savages and did well in F Class but once the custom guys got serious we had to switch barrels to Bartlein or Kreiger and stocks to McMillan or Manners to stay competitive
I love the Competition weapons Savage makes now but if you have one to a top smith he would make it even better because
I recommend people starting out many different Savages. Shoot the shit out of it while learning. Then change barrel to custom. Then if you still love the sport save for the custom made to you
Starting with s high dollar custom is not ideal for many
Brother many of us knew and called these guys friends. Some of the guys your insulting have given all over the world for this country. This website has guys on the cutting edge of precision shooting reading and writing on here
I don’t post much these days because I just refuse the insult type stuff the net is famous for now
Enjoy your Savage I know the company is very happy with your results. They are a great bang for the money
"It's the Indian, not the arrow" Because all the best Indians prefer shitty arrows. 
Since we're dredging up the past now... I always like mentioning the old book, Gil Hebard's "Pistol Shooters Treasury", which is mostly about bullseye shooting. There's a chapter where he had top ranked competitors shoot with (what was then) higher end pistols. As well as a course of fire with cheaper, budget guns. And shockingly (sarcasm) some of the best shooters in the country were still able to shoot really well with the cheap guns. Go figure.
And double shocker (even more sarcasm) they shot EVEN BETTER with the high end guns! Who would have guessed huh?
Yeah, it depends on your goal. But that's the problem with this forum, any gun forum, the internet as a whole and people in general.
Whether it be gear, loading, shooting.... where I am, what I do is RIGHT. Everyone else is wrong.
Anyone on this side of me is dismissed as stupid, can't do what I do, just plain sucks, wasting their time.
Anyone on the other side is also dismissed as stupid for other reasons and wasting their time. ("I'm not benchrest shooting" is the line we often see.)
I'm the top 530 yard down hill rolling 55 gallon drum shooter in the country, if you can't hit them you suck! (I don't want to hear from you snobs who compete in the 35 gallon drum class, you're arrogant assholes, nobody needs to hit a 35 gallon drum in real life!)
Since we're dredging up the past now... I always like mentioning the old book, Gil Hebard's "Pistol Shooters Treasury", which is mostly about bullseye shooting. There's a chapter where he had top ranked competitors shoot with (what was then) higher end pistols. As well as a course of fire with cheaper, budget guns. And shockingly (sarcasm) some of the best shooters in the country were still able to shoot really well with the cheap guns. Go figure.
And double shocker (even more sarcasm) they shot EVEN BETTER with the high end guns! Who would have guessed huh?
Yeah, it depends on your goal. But that's the problem with this forum, any gun forum, the internet as a whole and people in general.
Whether it be gear, loading, shooting.... where I am, what I do is RIGHT. Everyone else is wrong.
Anyone on this side of me is dismissed as stupid, can't do what I do, just plain sucks, wasting their time.
Anyone on the other side is also dismissed as stupid for other reasons and wasting their time. ("I'm not benchrest shooting" is the line we often see.)
I'm the top 530 yard down hill rolling 55 gallon drum shooter in the country, if you can't hit them you suck! (I don't want to hear from you snobs who compete in the 35 gallon drum class, you're arrogant assholes, nobody needs to hit a 35 gallon drum in real life!)
My buddy, always with thread interjecting logic, that kills the fun for some.
Why else would anyone join a forum? There's a reason they call it "SOCIAL media."
Hissy fit? There's only one person on this thread having a "hissy fit," and I am beginning to think he's a poser / stolen valor. Thou doth protest WAY too much.
Good luck to you. Enjoy your rifle. Enjoy the learning process, if you can. I learned a lot about precision rifle marksmanship here on the forum, by reading, and by taking live courses, and a LOT of practice. Unfortunately, 300 yards is the max distance available to me locally. To get to 600 yards, I have to drive 2+ hours. I have shot (and hit) out to 1,000 yards with my Ruger Precision Rifle 6.5 with the Vortex Viper HST. All factory ammo. I use an inexpensive Harris bipod and a squeeze bag. I don't claim to be an "expert," but my targets and groups speak for themselves.
I had to laugh out loud when you suggested the folks here didn't know who Carlos Hathcock (from my home state) was. You have NO IDEA who you're dealing with here. And that ridiculous accusation reeks of stolen valor name-dropping intended to "impress."
This forum is full of locker room banter, which is fun. I like that it's not censored. We can curse like sailors here. And it's the same way on the forum I own. We're adults!
But there are some VERY seriously knowledgeable people here, not the least of which is the founder of this forum.... with real-deal credentials and experience.
I'm a casual precision rifleman who doesn't compete and owns "budget" gear. I have never encountered the derision you ASSUME exists here. Though, your cantankerous and confrontational approach will certainly and predictably draw out the trash talk. You literally asked for it, and you got it.
Maybe start over, eh? Even you are redeemable.
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Thats a fantastic book. I still have my tattered copy i got as a kid.
And you know this how? I would suggest, if you want your stay here at the Hide to be much longer, you tone down the trolling and bravado. This is the only warning I'm going to give.
No insult intended, but I respond in kind when flamed. Those who served, know how to take it and give it.
Savage has a great product and reputation. I'm impressed with it, and it's helping me to become a better shooter. I've yet to knock anybody's product and I won't.
With your post, it ends here for me. Onto others when the time comes.
This is me being nice…
“Viet Nam Era”, is a term that never gets uttered at my Legion Post. Too many real shooters and looters hobbling around. It should be enough that you served without playing bullshit word games.
I met C. Hathcock many times. Anyone who went to gun shows in the Tidewater Area in the ‘90s did. He would sit in his wheelchair hocking his biography and swag, and talking to and being nice to every booter nimrod in the place. He was a class act.
There is no replacement for displacement and horsepower. A Corvette is a great, fast car that will beat most of what’s on the street. If you take it on a track and try to race against real “race cars”, you will be at a massive disadvantage no matter how good you can drive.
Are there cars that you can buy that will hang? Yes, and they cost as much or more as building a race car.
This is a racing forum, and you’ve come in telling us all how your Corvette is just as good, putting your ignorance on display to the world. Then you say you have no interest in racing to actually prove it. See a problem here? Google “Overton Windex”. Nothing is real on the internet; not photos, not videos, nothing. We believe the scores on Practiscore, period. You can either do it or you can’t, and that all there is to it. If you can’t, you can get there with training and practice.
Your are getting dog piled because you don’t know what you don’t know. If you actually went to a match and shot it would all become clear to you about the difference between the street and the track, having a drivers license and being a race car driver. Being a great driver transfers between the two.
I thought I was a great shot, and so did everyone I know. My first match, shot with a .308, 700 with an internal mag was humbling. But everyone was very nice and helpful, because I wasn’t an asshole who thought he knew everything. I learned, but maybe you can’t. Best stick to the pepper forums where Savage and ATI rules.
“Viet Nam Era”, is a term that never gets uttered at my Legion Post. Too many real shooters and looters hobbling around. It should be enough that you served without playing bullshit word games.
I met C. Hathcock many times. Anyone who went to gun shows in the Tidewater Area in the ‘90s did. He would sit in his wheelchair hocking his biography and swag, and talking to and being nice to every booter nimrod in the place. He was a class act.
There is no replacement for displacement and horsepower. A Corvette is a great, fast car that will beat most of what’s on the street. If you take it on a track and try to race against real “race cars”, you will be at a massive disadvantage no matter how good you can drive.
Are there cars that you can buy that will hang? Yes, and they cost as much or more as building a race car.
This is a racing forum, and you’ve come in telling us all how your Corvette is just as good, putting your ignorance on display to the world. Then you say you have no interest in racing to actually prove it. See a problem here? Google “Overton Windex”. Nothing is real on the internet; not photos, not videos, nothing. We believe the scores on Practiscore, period. You can either do it or you can’t, and that all there is to it. If you can’t, you can get there with training and practice.
Your are getting dog piled because you don’t know what you don’t know. If you actually went to a match and shot it would all become clear to you about the difference between the street and the track, having a drivers license and being a race car driver. Being a great driver transfers between the two.
I thought I was a great shot, and so did everyone I know. My first match, shot with a .308, 700 with an internal mag was humbling. But everyone was very nice and helpful, because I wasn’t an asshole who thought he knew everything. I learned, but maybe you can’t. Best stick to the pepper forums where Savage and ATI rules.
Well here is the rub. We are all shooters. Not many here could teach writing for a living so often how we intend is not how it comes out. God knows I have pissed off many by accident on the web because I write like crap.
Love you brother. I have to give you a call soon to get ready for bad times coming. Been swamped with starting new business and teaching plus in law is terminal
Prayers for you & in laws.
Yes bad days ahead, better we correct it before our kids & grand kids have to deal and pay for something we allowed to get out of hand.
Cell still same.
I'd like to interrupt this wonderful thread with a Savage tip for a remedy to the most popular feeding issue. The issue where the round pops over the bolt face and then binds in the action where the shooter must pull the bolt back in order to allow the round to drop and then be chambered once it's inline with the chamber...
1. Silver Sharpie the ejector side facing the firing pin hole
2. Pop the ejector from the bolt head.
3. Run that silver Sharpie portion of the ejector on a bastard file a few strokes till you have a 25-30 degree bevel
4. Reinsert the ejector
The bevel of the ejector prevents the case head from hopping the bolt face. Boom. Carry on.
1. Silver Sharpie the ejector side facing the firing pin hole
2. Pop the ejector from the bolt head.
3. Run that silver Sharpie portion of the ejector on a bastard file a few strokes till you have a 25-30 degree bevel
4. Reinsert the ejector
The bevel of the ejector prevents the case head from hopping the bolt face. Boom. Carry on.
No, I just have two savages and have helped plenty of friends with theirs. Ive heard all those things I said or seen them myself. Every one of those guns was around or under MOA with handholds. Every one of those guns was also clunky as shit. A lot of those guns had one or more of the issues I mentioned. I have no doubt your axis will shoot. I also have no doubt that your shitty attitude is because your bolt lift sucks. I get it, Id have a bad attitude if I had to shoot nothing but savage. If you stick with this long range thing, or actually start this long range thing (i.e. move past a couple hundred yards) someday you'll have an epiphany. It'll likely be when you can listen more than talk and somebody with a nice gun lets you shoot it.
There is this saying that if you think someone is the asshole, they probably are. If you think everyone is the asshole, you probably are, and this is a clear cut case.
OP-
I truly have no dog in this discussion but speaking from personal experience- you're now on the radar of a Mod that quite literally has 'Ban Cat Handler' as their moniker. As I've said before- by all means "you do you" but if you're open to an opinion you didn't ask for from someone that hasn't joined into this 'dogpile' I'd suggest you consider gracefully taking a bow from this discussion so you can 'live to discuss' another day/thread/topic.
Again- as other's pointed out, if your rifle does everything you expect it to- you're money ahead. But humbly- this isn't the hill to sacrifice your account on. I'd like to hear more from you on other subjects for what it's worth.
-LD
- Nov 3, 2010
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I’m cornfused. Is this a selfie of you laughing at what you found for him on the monitor?
Having only read about chuck mawhinney over the years, how is it supposed to be pronounced? Muh- whinny as in (muh freedoms) (horses sound)?
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Years ago the Savage Model 10 Tactical with SWFA fixed 10x was very popular here.
Thank you for posting in this obvious troll thread with some solid advice.
I did exactly as you advised, and I have no complaints. My bolt works great, I shot about 2000 rounds in the original savage barrel.
I am at the custom barrel stage now (that barrel cost more than the entire original purchase price of the savage), I am not shooting in competitions. I shoot for my own enjoyment and am regularly doing 1100 yard shoots (5-6 times per year). I will eventually buy a custom gun that will be next level for me. I will do it when I have time to shoot more often.
For where I am now, I made the right decision.
Why?
Why are you getting a rash of shit?
Cause you are a liar of epic proportions, and so green at this game, you dont even know how shit works. Or you do, and you are trolling.
It doesn't work like this. Shotshells dont "explode" when shot with a red ryder bb gun.
We know a thing or two, cause we've done a thing or two.
Your bullet was traveling faster than a shotgun blast could ever achieve, let that sink in....
You don't even understand basic physics.
Where do you trolls come from?
No need for you to reply, I'm not going to "interact" with you.
I wasn't going to post in this shit show at all.
See, I was going to let this go because internet dick measuring is frigging pointless. Then you had to go and be a faggot and stuff your mouth with 42 dicks in an attempt to gain superiority by projecting your lack of service on me.
Since Marines "Hathcock" and "Mawhinney" were two names that you are familiar enough with to use, you should be familiar with the Marine MOS 1833 - Amphibious Assault Crewman. It is in my screen name. I did 21 years, as well as a few deployments...who frigging cares? I am less and less impressed with myself as each year passes, I promise. And I wasn't even impressive to begin with...I also promise that.
Also, since you are an "era" vet, we can skip the number of your deployments because we already know by admission through omission that it is "0". The "55" in your screen name indicates that out of high school in/around '73 you unfortunately missed your opportunity to embrace the suck to a level where you wouldn't get defensive if someone asked about your deployment history... But instead, you are just like the dudes we had to keep the new joins away from because they didn't go anywhere, didn't do shit, and still tried to impose a mentality that is harmful to unit cohesion. That is, if you were in a unit.
Moreso, your mentioning of "era", plus quick transition to trying to belittle me for asking the question (based off of your telltale behavior) and then trying to discredit me (twice) through projection - are as damning as being caught in the cookie jar with crumbs on your face. At this point, I am now questioning whether you even served. Usually, it is of ZERO significance...until someone starts lying. I think it is safe to say that several members have now called you out on untruths that have come from you. Add me to that list.
What you fail to realize is that you can give away your basic personality and life's history with a handful of random posts on an internet forum. It doesn't take an FBI expert to realize what you like and how old you are...and then we can match that up with your claims. There are guys on this forum who are frigging experts at holding your words against you. Then there is the fact that everyone just about had you pegged from your first post...which you confirmed that through subsequent diarrhea of the fingertips on a keyboard.
^^^ With each post, you only solidify your position as a troll. However, we are now past the point of recognition and onto seeing how deep you are going to dig yourself. Unfortunately for us, you had to get Frank all pissed off when we first tried to police our own.
Congratulations on ensuring that every subsequent post you make for life on here will be scrutinized as a lie until proven otherwise.
Good day to you Sir, I hope that you enjoy your 42 dicks.
In all fairness, I only suggested he eat one very large dick, so....
