Rifle Scopes To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

[sirhitalot]

Hi, got my new SuB PM2 3-20x50 a week ago, and tested it on the range yesterday. When i zeroed the elevationtower i couldnt help but noticing how the MTC worked, and i didnt like it too much, so i turned it off. This is how you do it:
Look at the top of the little "buttons" that makes the "clicks". The upper one makes the MTC and the bottom one makes the normal clicks. take a look at this (bad) picture.

.

If you turn it 90 degrees (horizontal) it will not get into the notches for the MTCs, so it will just be like the old models.

Also im having problems with zeroing the windage turret. I just cant get it off. The eleveation turret wasnt a problem at all, but the windage wont come off. When i loosen the two allen screws i can slide it out maybe 1 mm, but then it stops. I think that the "blind screw" that is in the last hole maybe has been screwed in too much. Any advice?

 

[Andrew21]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

To zero I don't think your meant to take the turret off. Just loosen the 2 screws and move the turret beck to zero. That's what I did with mine. Somewhere on here there is a topic explaining how to zero the MTC turrets.

 

[juniors]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

As far as zeroing the turrets, after sighting in, on the locking turret Schmidt and Benders:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...127#Post3289127

Hope that helps....you do not have to remove the knobs to set.

 

[throwback]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Nice work on removing the MTC. I'm surprised that after a while the detent doesn't work back into the vertical position.

 

[sirhitalot]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

ah, thanks. I only was sceptical since i was able to remove the elevation and the fact that i heard the clicking.

 

[Jerry R]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Please be advised that removal of either elevation or windage knob is not necessary or recommended and any damaged incurred as a result of removal will not be covered under warranty. I would strongly suggest not removing it for any reason as there are no user servicable parts beneath the knob. The third set screw on the locking MTC knobs have a plug in them which is intended as a retaining screw for the cap and to prevent its removal.
Furthermore the modification that has been outlined above will cause premature wear on the pressure pin as well as causing damage to the clunk ring itself.

Again, I strongly suggest not removing the knobs on these models for ANY reason.

 

[RollinCoal11]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

There is not an easier scope to zero. Taking the turrets off is not how you do it. I hope you didn't screw your scope up.

Listen to Jerry R. He's a tech with S&B

 

[Rob01]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Please be advised that removal of either elevation or windage knob is not necessary or recommended and any damaged incurred as a result of removal will not be covered under warranty. I would strongly suggest not removing it for any reason as there are no user servicable parts beneath the knob. The third set screw on the locking MTC knobs have a plug in them which is intended as a retaining screw for the cap and to prevent its removal.
Furthermore the modification that has been outlined above will cause premature wear on the pressure pin as well as causing damage to the clunk ring itself.

Again, I strongly suggest not removing the knobs on these models for ANY reason.</span></span></div></div>

Incase anyone missed it. You should be listening to Jerry on this matter. OP so should you. I was going to write something similar but it's better coming from a S&B Tech who works at the service center in VA.

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Dont take the caps off!!!! I accidently did this weekend (pulled up too hard) to zero the scope, and could not get them seated properly again. After trying to correct the problem unsuccessfully myself, I am having to send my brand new scope back to the dealer.

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Hi, got my new SuB PM2 3-20x50 a week ago, and tested it on the range yesterday. When i zeroed the elevationtower i couldnt help but noticing how the MTC worked, and i didnt like it too much, so i turned it off. This is how you do it:
Look at the top of the little "buttons" that makes the "clicks". The upper one makes the MTC and the bottom one makes the normal clicks. take a look at this (bad) picture.

If you turn it 90 degrees (horizontal) it will not get into the notches for the MTCs, so it will just be like the old models.

I think that I had both of mine in the horizontal positon when I put the turret cap back on. I could not feel any significant click or the heavy 10th click when rotating the turret knob. This is probably why mine wasnt working properly.

 

[sirhitalot]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

thats how i found out, after taking it off i didnt feel the MTC. I then turned them back on and off, wasnt that hard. Now i'll turn them on again after advice from the techie...

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Does the windage turret have those same adjustable 'knobs'??

 

[Jeeprider]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Talk about messing with an expensive and mechanically perfect piece of equipment! If you have issues with the MTC functioning as it should you should have opted for the 5-25x56 with the standard turrets. Jerry R thanks for chiming in and saving other people from this mistake.

 

[ofelas]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Any plans to offer the 3-20 H2CMR without the MTC turrets?

 

[Aries64]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ofelas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any plans to offer the 3-20 H2CMR without the MTC turrets?

</div></div>
The question of the PMII 3-20X[50mm] being configured with a standard "windowed" DT Elevation was asked about two weeks ago in <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">D_TROS</span></span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"S&B 3-20x50 Pic Thread"</span></span> thread by <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span></span>. Click <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">HERE</span></span></span> to go to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Rob01</span></span>'s reply, or read it below:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spoke with our contact at S&B and this scope will not be available with the standard dual turn knobs. The way the scope was designed was around the locking mtc knobs which are larger than the dual turn knobs so they can't be swapped out or ordered with the dual turn due to the tube design. The connfiguration you see is the way the scope will be available for the foreseeable future. </div></div>


Keith

 

[mattmcg]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Love everything about this scope minus the MTC. Offer the scope, sans MTC, in a factory option and I'm in for 2.

 

[throwback]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

JerryR,

Would it be possible for you to offer as a service the removal of the upper detent thereby disabling MTC? Alternatively replace the 'clunk' ring in the turret with a smooth one?

 

[dvdt]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Why do you guys not like the MTC ? (not trying to argue, just curious)

 

[ofelas]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

I have no experience with the MTC turrets, was curious myself as to why some don't like it; that's why I wanted to know if the 3-20 was available without them.

I reckon Rob01 answered my question through that other thread Aries64 quoted.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

From the posts here it looks like the biggest complaint with the MTC function is over running the clunk by a few clicks. While the design details of the MTC turrets on the 3-20 and 5-25 PMII are very different the function is pretty much the same. For what it is worth I find it much easier to turn one click past the heavy clunk if I get more of my hand then just one finger and thumb on the turret. Takes a little practice but I am likeing the MTC more with use.

OFG

 

[dvdt]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Thanks. I'm coming from the USO world and have the EREK with milestone. I LOVE that feature. As I understand it, this is very similar in the S&B MTC turrets. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I do sometimes go past the hard detent. If I do, I just spin up to the next position and then come down. Same experience of using more of my hand vs. just a thumb and finger.

I saw Mike @ CSTactical's review of the scope and it seemed like he wasn't real happy with the locking turrets. It sounded hard to adjust in position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jbq7CxHhVw

Is there any reason you couldn't lift the locking ring before getting into position if you plan on dialing during a course of fire ? I mean, the knob isn't going to move when unlocked is it ?

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: throwback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JerryR,

Would it be possible for you to offer as a service the removal of the upper detent thereby disabling MTC? Alternatively replace the 'clunk' ring in the turret with a smooth one? </div></div>
You can turn it off, by adjusting the the knobs in the pics above. The upper knob has to be horizontal rather than vertical. That being said, I would not advise doing it, as it may void your warranty!! Dont ask me how I know this...

 

[throwback]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TestnDoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: throwback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JerryR,

Would it be possible for you to offer as a service the removal of the upper detent thereby disabling MTC? Alternatively replace the 'clunk' ring in the turret with a smooth one? </div></div>
You can turn it off, by adjusting the the knobs in the pics above. The upper knob has to be horizontal rather than vertical. That being said, I would not advise doing it, as it may void your warranty!! Dont ask me how I know this...

</div></div>

Yes... That is why I wanted to removal of MTC as a service provided by the team in VA so I would not void my warranty.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvdt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you guys not like the MTC ? (not trying to argue, just curious)</div></div>

Primarily for match use when I'm dialing as quickly as possible and don't like the overrun/come back problem I had with the original MTCs. Perhaps the 3-20 is not as aggressive and won't be an issue...

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Throwback,

I cant speak to the original MTCs, but the ones on my new 3-20 are probably not going to meet your needs, as overrun is going to happen. The great thing about the MTCs is you dont have to look at the dial to know where you are. God Bless.

 

[throwback]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

That's what I'm thinking as well which is too bad for me. Excellent mag range and S&B glass...

 

[Jerry R]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: throwback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JerryR,

Would it be possible for you to offer as a service the removal of the upper detent thereby disabling MTC? Alternatively replace the 'clunk' ring in the turret with a smooth one? </div></div>

Yes, this could be an option but should only be done at the service center by qualified technicians. I have in fact done this for another customer who had the same issue with this new knob system.

 

[sirhitalot]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

so why is it bad with premature wear on the pressure pin if you're going to take it out?

And also i might add that i find it a bit hard to believe that putting the pins sideways will cause more wear, as the resistance will decrease and the angle on the chamfer is also smaller, so it will run smoother over the dents...

 

[Jerry R]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sirhitalot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so why is it bad with premature wear on the pressure pin if you're going to take it out?

And also i might add that i find it a bit hard to believe that putting the pins sideways will cause more wear, as the resistance will decrease and the angle on the chamfer is also smaller, so it will run smoother over the dents... </div></div>

Turning it sideways WILL cause premature wear. If you can picture a knife edge (pressure pin) running perpendicular to precisely machined grooves (clunk ring) you will get a visualisation of what can happen to the parts over time.
If you choose to do anything but leave it alone that is your call as the consequences have been explained and warranty will be voided.

 

[throwback]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: throwback</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JerryR,

Would it be possible for you to offer as a service the removal of the upper detent thereby disabling MTC? Alternatively replace the 'clunk' ring in the turret with a smooth one? </div></div>

Yes, this could be an option but should only be done at the service center by qualified technicians. I have in fact done this for another customer who had the same issue with this new knob system.</div></div>

Well that makes my decision easy then, now just need to find a Hide vendor with the 3-20x50 CCW w/ H2CMR in stock!

Thanks for the info Jerry

 

[TestnDoc]

Re: To you who hate the MTC on the new 3-20x50 PM2

Check with Troy at Veteran Tactical here on the hide.