Gunsmithing Tool talk — Vises

_Windrider_

_Windrider_

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    • Jun 26, 2012
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    Orlando, FL
    #1
    So what kind of vise is everyone using? Machinists vise, mechanics vice, pattern makers vise? Does it matter? I was thinking of using this and mounting it vertical on my bench so I can swap vises

    www.totalvise.com

    Crossover Vise - Total Vise

    The Crossover Vise is your solution for holding and positioning of all types of work. Holds and receives all standard Crossover Vise attachments Allows
    www.totalvise.com www.totalvise.com

    I have a York mechanics vise I fucking hate and will be scrapping.
     
    #2
    I don't use one currently, but pine for a Kurt. If I used my mill more, I"d probably just bite the bullet and get one. Instead, this thing called "work" keeps getting in the way (that and the other thing, called "kids").
     
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    #4
    I have an old starrett machinist vise and a Bessemer cabinet makers vise that get used frequently. That positioner vise you posted is kinda neat. I have a Kurt D688 that I don't use any more that I need to sell. The machines have a few new Orange vises in there now.
     
    #5
    missed said:
    I have an old starrett machinist vise and a Bessemer cabinet makers vise that get used frequently. That positioner vise you posted is kinda neat. I have a Kurt D688 that I don't use any more that I need to sell. The machines have a few new Orange vises in there now.
    Click to expand...
    I figure something like that lets me position a full size vise any way I want has got to be better than one of these

    www.grizzly.com

    Parrot Vise - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

    <h1>D3125 Shop Fox Parrot Vise®</h1> <h2>Great vise for Luthiers and anyone needing versatility from their vise.</h2> <p>This unique D3125 Parrot Vise from Shop Fox swivels a full 360° and then locks in place when the jaw is tightened.</p> <p>The vise can also be mounted sideways for added...
    www.grizzly.com www.grizzly.com
     
    #6
    #7
    #8
    I bought the biggest one from northern tool, and when I removed a barrel I cracked it...

    Don't skimp on it like I did, now I got to buy a new one
     
    #9
    Wilton bench vises are great if you can find a used one cheap.

    I usually work on smaller stuff so I have been inappropriately using a small CNC angle lock vise mostly and occasionally some imported tool maker vises I got from Enco or Ruttland long ago.

    My CNC vises were eBay finds, new from a company going out of business, USA made, under $100 each. I should have bought all they had.
     
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    #10
    Beware of the Shop Fox Parrot vises. They're poorly made made and you'll likely be wasting your $$. If you like that style, you're better off picking up an old Versa Vise off ebay or maybe one of the new Brownells Multi-Vises (although I don't know if current ones are as well made as they used to be).
     
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    #12
    Waorani said:
    Beware of the Shop Fox Parrot vises. They're poorly made made and you'll likely be wasting your $$. If you like that style, you're better off picking up an old Versa Vise off ebay or maybe one of the new Brownells Multi-Vises (although I don't know if current ones are as well made as they used to be).
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I have no desire for that kind of vise. They seem weak. I’m leaning toward a good mechanics vise. I’m gonna scour the webs for a good American made old one to restore
     
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    #15
    TacticalDillhole said:
    So what kind of vise is everyone using? Machinists vise, mechanics vice, pattern makers vise? Does it matter? I was thinking of using this and mounting it vertical on my bench so I can swap vises

    www.totalvise.com

    Crossover Vise - Total Vise

    The Crossover Vise is your solution for holding and positioning of all types of work. Holds and receives all standard Crossover Vise attachments Allows
    www.totalvise.com www.totalvise.com

    I have a York mechanics vise I fucking hate and will be scrapping.
    Click to expand...

    Women, fast cars and bikes Wait......... Guns, good ammo and Beer.
     
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    #18
    I've got a 4" Yuasa machinist's vice that's a japanese Kurt knockoff for my benchtop mill and the bench vice is some ancient 3.5" Craftsman. Seems to do the things I need to get stuff done. If I need bigger I can fab something together with threaded rod, pig iron and a welder if needed.

    My peripheral experience with Wilton products has been a positive one FWIW.
     
    #20
    I have an old columbian woodworkers vise, a parrot voice, an old 6" columbian bench vise that sees the most use and a couple visas under the bench cause I just cant say no to a good deal. And also a kurt on the mill...... and a panavice if you count it... I love that little thing.

    I really wanted to like the parrot vice more but I just dont use it as much as I thought I would.
     
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    #22
    Hi,
    I bought this Starret (Athol) machinist vise and made inserts to hold firearms.

    I paid $75 YEARS ago, when a welding shop went out of business!

    Love it!
     

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    #23
    I have a kurt angle loc and a wilton 'bullet' vise. But really it depends on what you plan to do. Since I am a mechanic by trade and a tool maker for a hobby[did work in a tool and die shop for abut a year to learn] I paid once and cried once but no regrets! Stan
     
    #24
    bought one from HF and broke the threaded plate in it the screw rides in. Had a new one made of real steel and haven't been able to break it yet. I use different faces for the jaws depending on the job. Aluminum angle, copper angle, wood, you get the picture.
     
    #26
    I have a 6" Kurt on my mill and like it a lot. Jaw swaps are quick and easy with it. Before that I had an old Eron branded made in Japan vise that worked ok. I use a Wilton Bullet for my bench vise and a cheap china made Wilton drill press vise on my drill press. In my limited vise experience, most Made in USA vises will be superior to foreign brands. I've never used a Bison vise but would think they would be well made.
     
    #27
    Waorani said:
    Beware of the Shop Fox Parrot vises. They're poorly made made and you'll likely be wasting your $$. If you like that style, you're better off picking up an old Versa Vise off ebay or maybe one of the new Brownells Multi-Vises (although I don't know if current ones are as well made as they used to be).
    Click to expand...

    I have one. No performance/strength issues at all. I made blocks to hold barrels when doing general work and a block to hold a Viper for barrel changes. I have pounded the crap out of things on top of the anvil, used it at all angels, pulled factory R700 barrels, etc.

    The only thing I don't like about it is the jaws do change in elevation as you tighten it since the slide for the outer jaw is what is used to lock the rotation in place when tightening.

    I have a heavy machine vise as well but won't use it for firearms. If the Parrot can't hold it then I am probably doing something that would damage the weapon in a stronger vise.
     
    #28
    No love for Yost!! I am currently using a Yost Machinist vise (model 204) with 4" jaws and swivel base. It wasn't cheap, I think I paid around $400 but it was well worth it. I try to avoid buying any Chinese made products, but when it comes to tools there are only a few brands I will purchase; Mac Tools, Snap-On, PB Swiss (yea I know-not American made), Proto Tools and a few others. Yost's professional/machinist line of vises is made in Michigan. But I think Yost makes a cheap Chinese made line of vises as well but I am not 100% sure.

    33524848418_5ddac56284_c.jpg
     
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    #31
    TacticalDillhole said:
    Yeah I have no desire for that kind of vise. They seem weak. I’m leaning toward a good mechanics vise. I’m gonna scour the webs for a good American made old one to restore
    Click to expand...

    You made a great choice in the vices you bought.

    Particularly like that you are saving an old school piece from going to a landfill.

    About 4-5 years ago my boss at work decided to clean out the company kitchen. He threw away some Griswold cast iron pans that had probably been issued to the business pre 1960. Just old junk to those that dont know any better.

    I use the Brownells version of the Parrot vice.

    Certainly not as heavy duty as a Wilton but plenty useful for rifle work and when I was building Pinewood Derby cars for the kids to use in Cub Scouts...

    7044355


    I mounted mine to an aluminum plate that will secure to rails I have in my reloading bench....

    7044356


    This allows me to move it out of the way and save some bench space when not being used.
     
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    #32
    Hairball said:
    Sure, I have the 865 6.5” on my reloading/work bench. No issues and done everything I needed so far. While mine was made in the USA, I see the new model is now made in China so hopefully they are still good.
    Click to expand...

    I just discovered something very disturbing while browsing the Yost website. Almost every single vise sold on their website had the "country of origin" labeled as Taiwan or China. This includes my $400 vise, WTF? Now I am upset. I am hoping that the "country of origin" refers to where it was assembled. Im gonna send Yost an email inquiring.

    On one side of my vise the words "Holland, MI" are stamped on it (see picture below). Additionally, I just looked at the receipt and it contained pre-printed USPS return labels which indicated the destination address as Holland, MI as well. Yet according to the Yost website (screen shot directly below) the "Country of Origin" is Taiwan.

    Can anyone explain the contradiction? Just entertaining the idea that I paid $400 for a Chinese/Taiwanese made bench vise makes me very angry.

    47349868872_dcbae2fabc.jpg


    32460656687_c6da724ffb_c.jpg
     
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    #33
    @Bigdude Yost did make vises that were from the USA. Now, as far as I know they are down to Taiwan / China markets for all vises. If you comb their site you will find they no longer list any vises under the USA supplied market where as not so long ago they still had some craftsman market vised manufactured in the USA - heck even the made in USA link says no products: http://www.yostvises.com/products/made-in-usa.html

    So, depending on when it was made it may or may not be born in the USA. As for the Holand, MI stamp, even if it was made in Taiwan they can still put the stamp showing where they are located.
     
    #34
    antithesis said:
    @Bigdude Yost did make vises that were from the USA. Now, as far as I know they are down to Taiwan / China markets for all vises. If you comb their site you will find they no longer list any vises under the USA supplied market where as not so long ago they still had some craftsman market vised manufactured in the USA - heck even the made in USA link says no products: http://www.yostvises.com/products/made-in-usa.html

    So, depending on when it was made it may or may not be born in the USA. As for the Holand, MI stamp, even if it was made in Taiwan they can still put the stamp showing where they are located.
    Click to expand...

    Thanks for the reply. I sent an email to Yost to clarify and are still waiting for a response. As of right now I am really disappointed.

    Yost must be a bunch of greedy bastards charging $400 for a Chinese made yost that probably cost $50 to make.
     
    #35
    I get where you are coming from. $50 to make, $50 to ship, bit of payroll and warehouse fees, and then you pay for the name recognition.

    I think the Meadville PA stamps are the only USA made ones. But hey, Yost proudly states all their vises are made to U.S. standards! I know Wilton actual does (did?) put "Made in USA" on theirs.
     
    #36
    I just received an email from Yost explaining how to tell the difference between vises made in Michigan and the ones made in Taiwan or China. Apparently the vise I purchased was in fact manufactured and assembled in Michigan.

    Bigdude:

    Correct -- Holland, MI is made in the USA.

    For instance, if the side of the Yost 55 (in your case the 204) says Holland, MI or USA then the castings and machining are sourced within USA. If the side of the vise just has the Yost name, then the castings are sourced from Taiwan. This is how you can tell the difference.

    For a short period of time, while supplies last, we still have some made in the USA vises remaining in inventory in Holland, MI, these would be :
    • Heavy Duty Machinists 103 – 106, 203-206 -- we may very well have some made in USA available. Your 204 was cast, machined and made in the USA.
    • Heavy Duty Combination 31C – 34C we may very well have some made in USA available.
    • Some Tradesman, 45C – 80C (45C, 55C and 65C as USA is sold out and now the COO is Taiwan)
    • Some 3D, 3Q-QR, 6D and 6-D-QR drill press vises.
    • Some Y-250 and 1104.

    Thanks

    Pat Nelis
    Co-Owner
    Yost Vises LLC
    (616) 396-2063 Ext. 3
     
    #37
    Bigdude said:
    I just received an email from Yost explaining how to tell the difference between vises made in Michigan and the ones made in Taiwan or China. Apparently the vise I purchased was in fact manufactured and assembled in Michigan.

    Bigdude:

    Correct -- Holland, MI is made in the USA.

    For instance, if the side of the Yost 55 (in your case the 204) says Holland, MI or USA then the castings and machining are sourced within USA. If the side of the vise just has the Yost name, then the castings are sourced from Taiwan. This is how you can tell the difference.

    For a short period of time, while supplies last, we still have some made in the USA vises remaining in inventory in Holland, MI, these would be :
    • Heavy Duty Machinists 103 – 106, 203-206 -- we may very well have some made in USA available. Your 204 was cast, machined and made in the USA.
    • Heavy Duty Combination 31C – 34C we may very well have some made in USA available.
    • Some Tradesman, 45C – 80C (45C, 55C and 65C as USA is sold out and now the COO is Taiwan)
    • Some 3D, 3Q-QR, 6D and 6-D-QR drill press vises.
    • Some Y-250 and 1104.

    Thanks

    Pat Nelis
    Co-Owner
    Yost Vises LLC
    (616) 396-2063 Ext. 3
    Click to expand...


    Ask them why they are making them in Taiwan and than tell them you will buy from someone that casts them in the USA.
     
    #38
    pmclaine said:
    Ask them why they are making them in Taiwan and than tell them you will buy from someone that casts them in the USA.
    Click to expand...

    You read my mind. I had already sent him a second email asking that very question. Here is his response in blue:

    Bigdude,

    If you investigate Wilton further, you will find they mover 100% of their tradesman series (1745 – 1780A) to Taiwan as well.

    Several Presidency's ago there was a seismic shift in Defense spending and a major movement for Sequestration, downsizing of the U.S. Military and Services. The GSA & DOD were the largest purchasers of Made in the USA vises (Heavy duty & combination vises). Over the last 20(+) years all the regulations within Government purchasing program were re-written as a means of saving tax payer’s money. New purchasing regulations stipulate purchasing COTS (Commercially Off The Shelf) items that are TAA (Trade Act Agreement) Compliant. Taiwan, for instance, is TAA Compliant and considered the same from a purchasing point of view as Made in the USA. There are no bonus points for Made in the USA, no special pricing adjustments when supplied from a TAA compliant country. Yost Vises, has to compete on a worldwide basis. When selling to the GSA & DOD, keep in mind it is always the LOWEST COST supplier that wins the contract.

    From an e-commerce point of view, Amazon continues to rewrite supply & demand chain based decisions. Virtually all vise sales are <$200.00 and Amazon ships anywhere in the world for these prices. Unfortunately, there does not exist any Made in the USA vises selling on a delivered basis to the end user for $<200.00

    Yes, we still have a number of vises in inventory that were made in the USA. During the 2019 selling season we sell through a number of sales channels such as: McMaster, Fastenal, MSC, Grainger, Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon and so forth and we need to alert each channel about and changes in COO's (County of Origins).

    Some point in time between now and Q4-2019, Yost will sell through all remaining USA inventory. Yes, a number of the vises offered by Yost have been Made in the USA since 1908 and in 2019 these vises will continued to be designed and serviced by Yost USA, however they will be sourced from either Taiwan or China. Yost continues to offer, on an as need basis, assembly requirements on the aforementioned vises.

    In the end should you purchase another Yost vise and discover the side of the casting does not have Holland, MI or USA, I guarantee you will be most satisfied with the form, fit, function and overall quality of the vise. In the end, lifetime warranty on the casting is still “lifetime”.

    Thanks

    Pat Nelis

    Co-Owner
    Yost Vises LLC
    (616) 396-2063 Ext. 3
     
    #39
    I know Taiwan can make cast iron to a very good standard. China should be able to do the same, it probably just comes down to how much Yost wants to spend on production.

    I would prefer to get made in the USA products but as they say, not too many people are spending $400 on a vise and some imports will be high quality.

    If you want USA made and quality, probably buy soon wether it's new or used and if it's used, get replacement parts while you can.
     
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    #40
    flyer said:
    I know Taiwan can make cast iron to a very good standard. China should be able to do the same, it probably just comes down to how much Yost wants to spend on production.

    I would prefer to get made in the USA products but as they say, not too many people are spending $400 on a vise and some imports will be high quality.

    If you want USA made and quality, probably buy soon wether it's new or used and if it's used, get replacement parts while you can.
    Click to expand...

    Nicely put and I agree with you 100%. Now that I know there will be no more American-made Vises manufactured, I want to buy one or two more American-made vises from Yost before the stock is gone. Maybe I will buy another bench vise.
     
    #41
    They are selling vices because that is what they care about vices and......profits.

    Capitalism is good and profits are good.

    I dont blame Yost.

    I blame our government.

    Im betting Taiwan does not have OSHA nor an EPA that is shoving it up there ass on industrial waste.

    If our workers and manufacturers require the regulations of OSHA and the EPA than any products brought into the country should follow our regulations.

    If not than we just offshore safety and pollution hazards to foreign countries.

    If foreign countries manufacture to our regulatory standards and still produce cheaper/better than our manufacturers deserve to fail.

    Trumps trying but the establishment does not want to revive our manufacturing.

    The Chamber of Commerce wants more profits and cheaper labor.

    Its a short term out look that will burn them in the long run.

    Yost cares about vices but when they manufacture in Taiwan Im supposing a manufacturing line in the USA gets shut down and American workers are laid off.

    Who does Yost think will buy their products when everyone is living lowest common denominator on the government hand out?
     
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    #43
    antithesis said:
    Glad it worked out for you. Would have been a total letdown if it were imported.

    As far as , I doubt anyone is going to be in the mood to ship back a frigging bench vise at half the cost of a new vise. Crap steel is crap steel.
    Click to expand...

    I agree, my only concern and reason for contacting Yost was to simply find out if my particular vise was made here. If I had found out that my $400 vice was made in friggin Taiwan, pissed off wouldn't be the word. Now I really want to purchase a few more of their American-made vises before stocks are depleted.
     
    #44
    Glad to see people share my distaste for companies when they move their manufacturing overseas.

    Usually someone chimes in "Its a global economy. Its not realistic to expect we would build that stuff here, besides were doing much better as a service economy"

    Screw that.

    We can build a vice and we can compete with Taiwan we just need to be on a level playing field.

    Our govt has screwed the pooch.
     
    #45
    I think you are a bit wrong there. Many vices are made in the USA, they are just for machining, where precision and quality are called for.

    The failure is that American buyers create more demand for $50 disposable China bench vices than $250 quality USA bench vises.

    I don't think we can walk that back, our disposable culture is too entrenched.

    We can still make good choices individually which for me is refurbishing used USA vises.

    I'm not optimistic about bringing back that industry. I don't think we should try to compete at the $50 level. I don't think we should try to become good at producing disposable junk.
     
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    #46
    flyer said:
    I think you are a bit wrong there. Many vices are made in the USA, they are just for machining, where precision and quality are called for.

    The failure is that American buyers create more demand for $50 disposable China bench vices than $250 quality USA bench vises.

    I don't think we can walk that back, our disposable culture is too entrenched.

    We can still make good choices individually which for me is refurbishing used USA vises.

    I'm not optimistic about bringing back that industry. I don't think we should try to compete at the $50 level. I don't think we should try to become good at producing disposable junk.
    Click to expand...


    No we shouldnt try to compete at the $50 level we should punish China for taking the tactic of subsidizing their industry and subjecting their people to manufacturing methods that we would not allow here.

    Chinas long term strategy is the destruction of others by leveraging their most disposable asset - their citizens - in order to make everyone dependent.

    Just look at what they are doing in the One Road, One Belt countries.
     
    #47
    I don't really think we need to punish China or India for our failings.

    For a lot of people who rarely use a vise, a $50 POS is fine.

    Their abuse of the enviornment is disturbing but their economy and employment conditions are their own fault. I don't think people need to feel bad about taking advantage of it. A vise tariff isn't going to change anything except the price Americans pay for a crummy vise.
     
    #48
    flyer said:
    I don't really think we need to punish China or India for our failings.

    For a lot of people who rarely use a vise, a $50 POS is fine.

    Their abuse of the enviornment is disturbing but their economy and employment conditions are their own fault. I don't think people need to feel bad about taking advantage of it. A vise tariff isn't going to change anything except the price Americans pay for a crummy vise.
    Click to expand...

    If we dont allow those abuses here why do we allow them there?

    Oh I get it "I want to buy cheap shit at Walmart."

    Real humanitarian.

    That cheap shit is at the cost of their lives and our peoples jobs.
     
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    #49
    Do you think a tariff is going to change the way China and India operate?

    I don't think so. I think the only effect would be higher prices here.

    If an action does not produce the desired effect, why do it?
     
    #50
    flyer said:
    Do you think a tariff is going to change the way China and India operate?

    I don't think so. I think the only effect would be higher prices here.

    If an action does not produce the desired effect, why do it?
    Click to expand...


    I dont care how they operate.

    AOC can go over there and sell the on the GND.

    If we saddle our Corporations with regulation though we should demand their competitors meet the standard.

    If not all we do is off shore the problem and run our manufacturing into the ground.

    Come on this is evident.

    Perhaps there would be higher prices here. Higher prices, better products and a stronger economy.

    I have seen the destruction in my lifetime.
     
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