Torque Wrench Reviews?

[FourT6and2]

Any interest in torque wrench reviews/testing that would be specific for firearms? I have a bunch here: Wiha, Lyman, Tekton, Fix it Sticks, etc. I have a digital torque tester on its way to me that I can use to test the accuracy and precision of these wrenches. I'm thinking of writing up some reviews if people are interested.

EDIT:
New thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/torque-wrench-reviews-and-tests.7137138/

 

[Drew M]

Yes please.

Good timing as I can't find my Wheeler Fat wrench since I moved,
In the market for a new one & was thinking Fix it Sticks.

Had a digital torque tester at my old workplace & found that most torque wrenches needed a couple of test torques/loads before they stabilized.
(first couple of torques would be a bit off & then they would settle.)

 

[Boatninja]

yes

 

[n2ishun]

Proto circa 1978
/thread

 

[Mike Casselton]

Yes please.

Good timing as I can't find my Wheeler Fat wrench since I moved,
In the market for a new one & was thinking Fix it Sticks.

Had a digital torque tester at my old workplace & found that most torque wrenches needed a couple of test torques/loads before they stabilized.
(first couple of torques would be a bit off & then they would settle.)

Back in the day when I was active duty, we used torque wrenches a lot.
Part of the training and also in the Tech Orders, it specified to exercise the wrench at its lowest setting prior to using it.

It pointed out that doing so would move the lubricant around, thus making the torque values correct and consistent.

The Tech order, IIRC was 1-1A-8, Structural Hardware.

And, 32B14-3-1-10, Use and Care of Hand Tools, which is more specific to torque devices.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Also, Snap On has info available about torque wrenches. You should be able to go to their site.

I'd highly recommend reading up on these devices before testing to ensure they are all given a fair shake.

Slow and smooth will give more consistent results than jerky movement.

Remember, the end result should be the same, but the execution of torque limiters is much different than torque wrenches.

I look forward to your results.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I also am looking forward to your review, but
Torque Wrenches that have been in service are INDIVIDUAL instruments and results may not be indicative of all instruments of a particular brand.
Tolerances stated by a manufacturer are for new instruments and are a + and - tolerance and maybe stated as a percent of FULL SCALE.
Click style wrenches usually have a wide tolerance band.
An example use might be scope rings tightened to 15-18 in-lbs. That's roughly 16.5 +/- 10%.
Applied torque is a combination of technique, readability of setting, and wrench accuracy at the environment (temperature).
For small machine screws I use a 100 in-lb beam wrench.
Calibration of a torque screwdriver:

https://jmtest.com/PDFs/TorqueScrewdriverRepair.pdf

The Fix-It_Stick 6-25 in-lb driver is $55 (free shipping)

Mini All-In-One Torque Driver | Fix It Sticks

Fix It Sticks' Mini All-in-One Torque Driver will become your go-to for tightening scope rings and more to the torque value you need, from 6-25 in-lbs.

store.fixitsticks.com

As a retired Metrologist I check mine with dead weight (force equals mass corrected for local gravity) and a ruler (beam level at test torque with socket held in bench vise).
Can easily get better than 1% at calibration.

 

[pineoak]

I have the one that goes to 55 from FIS, great tool for your range bag. Mine is pieced together from original bike kit.

 

[kthomas]

People also need to keep in mind that even if you have a torque wrench that's 100% accurate, the torque value you think you are applying is not what it's going to be at the threads, if any sort of thread locker, anti-seize, etc. is used.

Im not sure what the coefficient of friction of say loctite is. Say it's 0.20 (wouldn't be surprised if it was around there). You use loctite to tighten your screw to the specified 55 in-lbs. In actuality it's more like 41 in-lbs, due to the coefficient of friction of the thread locker.

Does this matter for our purposes? Not really. But I bring this up, as there's more to getting the proper torque than just a calibrated and verified torque wrench, if we are going to dive into these nuances.

 

[fdkay]

it's not only accuracy, but consistency.
If it is off a little, but consistently, you're still pretty good.
We aren't building the space shuttle.

 

[308pirate]

People also need to keep in mind that even if you have a torque wrench that's 100% accurate, the torque value you think you are applying is not what it's going to be at the threads, if any sort of thread locker, anti-seize, etc. is used.

Im not sure what the coefficient of friction of say loctite is. Say it's 0.20 (wouldn't be surprised if it was around there). You use loctite to tighten your screw to the specified 55 in-lbs. In actuality it's more like 41 in-lbs, due to the coefficient of friction of the thread locker.

Does this matter for our purposes? Not really. But I bring this up, as there's more to getting the proper torque than just a calibrated and verified torque wrench, if we are going to dive into these nuances.

Stop. Let people think what they want to think. Trying to bring knowledge about this topic is useless as know-nothings will argue with you endlessly.

I used to try to educate. Now I just do my own thing and not GAF if everyone else is wrong. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[dimar1492]

People also need to keep in mind that even if you have a torque wrench that's 100% accurate, the torque value you think you are applying is not what it's going to be at the threads, if any sort of thread locker, anti-seize, etc. is used.

Im not sure what the coefficient of friction of say loctite is. Say it's 0.20 (wouldn't be surprised if it was around there). You use loctite to tighten your screw to the specified 55 in-lbs. In actuality it's more like 41 in-lbs, due to the coefficient of friction of the thread locker.

Does this matter for our purposes? Not really. But I bring this up, as there's more to getting the proper torque than just a calibrated and verified torque wrench, if we are going to dive into these nuances.

I could be wrong, but the torque applied to the head of the fastener is not what changes with varying friction coefficients. It's the clamping force. Wait, we might be saying the same thing...

 

[FourT6and2]

Back in the day when I was active duty, we used torque wrenches a lot.
Part of the training and also in the Tech Orders, it specified to exercise the wrench at its lowest setting prior to using it.

It pointed out that doing so would move the lubricant around, thus making the torque values correct and consistent.

The Tech order, IIRC was 1-1A-8, Structural Hardware.

And, 32B14-3-1-10, Use and Care of Hand Tools, which is more specific to torque devices.

Ever taken a torque wrench apart? It's a pretty simple device. And the lubricant is a thick grease. It's not migrating anywhere. But sure, I can "exercise" all the wrenches for you lol

 

[FourT6and2]

I also am looking forward to your review, but
Torque Wrenches that have been in service are INDIVIDUAL instruments and results may not be indicative of all instruments of a particular brand.
Tolerances stated by a manufacturer are for new instruments and are a + and - tolerance and maybe stated as a percent of FULL SCALE.
Click style wrenches usually have a wide tolerance band.
An example use might be scope rings tightened to 15-18 in-lbs. That's roughly 16.5 +/- 10%.
Applied torque is a combination of technique, readability of setting, and wrench accuracy at the environment (temperature).
For small machine screws I use a 100 in-lb beam wrench.
Calibration of a torque screwdriver:

https://jmtest.com/PDFs/TorqueScrewdriverRepair.pdf

The Fix-It_Stick 6-25 in-lb driver is $55 (free shipping)

Mini All-In-One Torque Driver | Fix It Sticks

Fix It Sticks' Mini All-in-One Torque Driver will become your go-to for tightening scope rings and more to the torque value you need, from 6-25 in-lbs.

store.fixitsticks.com

As a retired Metrologist I check mine with dead weight (force equals mass corrected for local gravity) and a ruler (beam level at test torque with socket held in bench vise).
Can easily get better than 1% at calibration.

Yeah I'm not reviewing these wrenches in any professional, end-all-be-all way. Just within the context of someone who is looking for a torque wrench to use for their rifle. And results won't be intended as a definitive comment on the brand or product as a whole.

All the wrenches I have are NEW. Just bought them. The idea here is how do they all stack up right out of the box. Small sample size, sure. But when anybody buys a wrench, they aren't buying 100 of them.

As far as the dead weight thing, here are some interesting videos. Guy was testing two wrenches using dead weight and turns out it's not always so simple.

 

[FourT6and2]

People also need to keep in mind that even if you have a torque wrench that's 100% accurate, the torque value you think you are applying is not what it's going to be at the threads, if any sort of thread locker, anti-seize, etc. is used.

Im not sure what the coefficient of friction of say loctite is. Say it's 0.20 (wouldn't be surprised if it was around there). You use loctite to tighten your screw to the specified 55 in-lbs. In actuality it's more like 41 in-lbs, due to the coefficient of friction of the thread locker.

Does this matter for our purposes? Not really. But I bring this up, as there's more to getting the proper torque than just a calibrated and verified torque wrench, if we are going to dive into these nuances.

Doesn't matter. I'm not going to review or prescribe how other people want to use their tools. I'm just going to test the wrenches I have here. If someone wants to use them improperly, that's on them. And I'm not testing any fasteners, so the use of threadlocker is a non-issue in this context.

 

[FourT6and2]

it's not only accuracy, but consistency.
If it is off a little, but consistently, you're still pretty good.
We aren't building the space shuttle.

Right. That will be a part of my tests. But I'm not a scientist or statistician, so don't expect anything crazy like 1,000 tests per wrench.

 

[Midwestside]

Any interest in torque wrench reviews/testing that would be specific for firearms? I have a bunch here: Wiha, Lyman, Tekton, Fix it Sticks, etc. I have a digital torque tester on its way to me that I can use to test the accuracy and precision of these wrenches. I'm thinking of writing up some reviews if people are interested.

I commend your intended contribution by sharing your findings-I'd like to see your results.

But based on some wrench threads I've seen over the years you can bank that every last detail/measurement/technique/consistency/material/lube/thread locker/bit type/....... astrological configuration relative to your gps coordinates IS going to then be critiqued and dismissed as inaccurate (by many people making no comparable efforts on their own).

So I'd only recommend that the test is worthwhile to you.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I always like experiments. Test away, I'll watch

 

[FourT6and2]

I commend your intended contribution by sharing your findings-I'd like to see your results.

But based on some wrench threads I've seen over the years you can bank that every last detail/measurement/technique/consistency/material/lube/thread locker/bit type/....... astrological configuration relative to your gps coordinates IS going to then be critiqued and dismissed as inaccurate (by many people making no comparable efforts on their own).

So I'd only recommend that the test is worthwhile to you.

Yeah, based on the comments in this thread simply asking if anybody wants me to do it... I might just keep the results to myself lol

But I had the thought because out of my own curiosity, I bought a few of the typical wrenches always mentioned on forums. They all seem to get the job done. But some have more usable form factors than others. Some come with better/worse accessories. Some are more pleasant to use. Some feel higher quality than others. But outside of that subjective stuff... I was curious how they stacked up in terms of accuracy and precision.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Ever taken a torque wrench apart? It's a pretty simple device. And the lubricant is a thick grease. It's not migrating anywhere. But sure, I can "exercise" all the wrenches for you lol

It's your dance so shuffle any way you like.
I was merely offering some info for your use.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Back in the day when I was active duty, we used torque wrenches a lot.
Part of the training and also in the Tech Orders, it specified to exercise the wrench at its lowest setting prior to using it.

You would have failed your QA eval. Supposed to excercise 6 times at the highest setting or your working setting if using a large tq wrench. I'll see you in your blues with the Commander on Friday.

 

[fdkay]

We never used the upper or lower 10% of the rated range of the wrench, and yes, exercising the wrench was recommended, but we did it at the desired torque setting.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Not a chance. I've been retired for a long time.

The current AF can lick my sweaty nut sack.

Some times people get stuff backwards or wrong if they haven't used that info in a long time.

The sad part is I can still remember part numbers and NSNs for a bunch of shit. I can even remember certain CITS maintenance codes but can't remember what I went to the grocery store for.
Go figure.

 

[Mike Casselton]

We never used the upper or lower 10% of the rated range of the wrench, and yes, exercising the wrench was recommended, but we did it at the desired torque setting.

^^^^ That I also remember, or whatever PMEL would certify it for. Providing it was still usable.
We got a lot of calls from them wanting to know what torque range we used.
Most of ours were used in the 50-70 in-lbs range.

Lots of guys failed their evals because they didn't read the PMEL tag.

 

[FourT6and2]

What are some common torque settings y'all use for your rifles?

I only need two settings: 15 in/lb for scope ring cap screws, 55 in/lb for ring base, and 55 in/lb for action screws.

 

[dimar1492]

What are some common torque settings y'all use for your rifles?

I only need two settings: 15 in/lb for scope ring cap screws, 55 in/lb for ring base, and 55 in/lb for action screws.

Manufacturer's recommendation on most parts.

 

[FourT6and2]

Manufacturer's recommendation on most parts.

That's not what I'm asking.

I want to know what are some of the common torque settings y'all actually need for YOUR rifles, so I know what in/lb settings to test.

Or I guess I can just do every even increment on each wrench.

 

[dimar1492]

That's not what I'm asking.

I want to know what are some of the common torque settings y'all actually need for YOUR rifles, so I know what in/lb settings to test.

Gotcha. 18 and 20 for ring caps, 55 and 65 for ring cross bolts, 50-70 for action screws, 49 for AI barrel swap, 80 for Desert Tech barrel swap, 25 and 30 for mounting scope bases, 15 for terminus barrel swap

 

[Taylorbok]

FclassJohn did a pretty comprehensive review of a bunch of torque wrenches.

 

[308pirate]

My gun torque wrenches are Tohnichi. I don't have to wonder if they're good.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

That's not what I'm asking.

I want to know what are some of the common torque settings y'all actually need for YOUR rifles, so I know what in/lb settings to test.

Or I guess I can just do every even increment on each wrench.

Generally, I'm using 15, 20, 30, 35, 55, and 65 in/lbs

Ring cap screws, scope base mounting screws, and modular nylon accessories are getting between 15-20 in/lbs

Aluminum modular accessories, laminate stock action screws, and rimfire action screws are getting 30-35 in/lbs

AX AICS pre-2014 chassis and aluminum bedding blocks are getting 55 in/lbs

AX AICS post-2014 chassis and pillar bedded stocks are getting 65 in/lbs.

That covers 95% of what I'm using.

 

[FourT6and2]

FclassJohn did a pretty comprehensive review of a bunch of torque wrenches.

Link?

 

[gigamortis]

Clicker type wrenches will always have some swing in how repeatable they are. Its just a nature of their design. If you want the utmost repeatability and accuracy, stick with a dial or beam torque wrench.

 

[Taylorbok]

Link?

4 part series

 

[FourT6and2]

4 part series

Thanks. Watching now.

Seems like an ok source for consumer info I guess. I won't be testing by locking another wrench in a vice. Check out the two videos I posted earlier to see why that's not a valid method.

Here's the tester I ordered: https://hios.com/EN/products/torque/HP-100/

Accuracy of 0.5%, a range of 1-90 Lbf.in, and can track both real-time torque and peak torque. I'll have a local tool calibration shop look it over. There are some super expensive torque testers out there. I'm not dropping $2,000 on one, but this thing should get the job done for this context if the one I bought is real that is lol

 

[Krob95]

What are some common torque settings y'all use for your rifles?

I only need two settings: 15 in/lb for scope ring cap screws, 55 in/lb for ring base, and 55 in/lb for action screws.

49in/lb's for the grub screw that clamps the barrel tight on the AI AT/AX/ATX. 53in/lb's for AI chassis for r700 actions, 65in/lb's for other chassis's. 25in/lb for scopes in my Spuhr mounts and 45in/lb for the Spuhr to the pic rail.

Another one that some may use is the 4in/lb limiter for the NF turrets.

 

[kthomas]

Doesn't matter. I'm not going to review or prescribe how other people want to use their tools. I'm just going to test the wrenches I have here. If someone wants to use them improperly, that's on them. And I'm not testing any fasteners, so the use of threadlocker is a non-issue in this context.

Just trying to provide a little context.

If people truly care how accurate their torques are, this is a big part of the equation. Bigger than torque wrench accuracy, unless their wrench is way off.

Anyways, I'm sure this project will be interesting to some.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Good information regarding torque wrenches is always welcomed. I usually select the torque wrench that has a mid-range for the fastener to be installed. PSA-torque wrenches also work fine for left-hand threaded fastener installations; just never use the torque wrench to remove a installed fastener.

I like the Wiha / Snap-On tool for small fastener / low torque installation werkes. The Fix-It options are handy before heading to the range.

I researched the high quality Tohnichi torque drivers years ago, however, generally I could not find any of their Models that would be useful in most gunsmithing application ranges.

As mentioned above, for gunsmithing optic / muzzle device / fasteners it’s not Space Shuttle criterion necessary.

Standing by for OP’s review.

Some of the torque devices I employ for in-lb applications. I use different ones for ft-lb installations e.g. muzzle devices.

 

[FourT6and2]

Just trying to provide a little context.

If people truly care how accurate their torques are, this is a big part of the equation. Bigger than torque wrench accuracy, unless their wrench is way off.

Anyways, I'm sure this project will be interesting to some.

Understood.

I've never used thread lock in a firearm application. Shouldn't be needed AND as you say, it really affects torque in many ways.

My track car has center lock wheels that require 600Nm, instead of typical lug nuts. And you have to use an anti-lock paste on the mechanisms. The torque setting takes that into account.

 

[FourT6and2]

Good information regarding torque wrenches is always welcomed. I usually select the torque wrench that has a mid-range for the fastener to be installed. PSA-torque wrenches also work fine for left-hand threaded fastener installations; just never use the torque wrench to remove a installed fastener.

I like the Wiha / Snap-On tool for small fastener / low torque installation werkes. The Fix-It options are handy before heading to the range.

I researched the high quality Tohnichi torque drivers years ago, however, generally I could not find any of their Models that would be useful in most gunsmithing application ranges.

As mentioned above, for gunsmithing optic / muzzle device / fasteners it’s not Space Shuttle criterion necessary.

Standing by for OP’s review.

Some of the torque devices I employ for in-lb applications. I use different ones for ft-lb installations e.g. muzzle devices.

Same here. I've been using that same Wiha torque driver (10-50 in/lb) on my rifle for about 7 years. My car got broken into recently and it got stolen, so I had to buy another one. And I figured I'd try a few other options as well, which is how this all started. I view FIS as something small that I can keep in my range bag in case of emergencies in the field. And something like Wiha or the other options for use at home, on my bench. But I'm putting the cart before the horse here

 

[Digetydog]

I also am looking forward to your review, but
Torque Wrenches that have been in service are INDIVIDUAL instruments and results may not be indicative of all instruments of a particular brand.
Tolerances stated by a manufacturer are for new instruments and are a + and - tolerance and maybe stated as a percent of FULL SCALE.
Click style wrenches usually have a wide tolerance band.
An example use might be scope rings tightened to 15-18 in-lbs. That's roughly 16.5 +/- 10%.
Applied torque is a combination of technique, readability of setting, and wrench accuracy at the environment (temperature).
For small machine screws I use a 100 in-lb beam wrench.
Calibration of a torque screwdriver:

https://jmtest.com/PDFs/TorqueScrewdriverRepair.pdf

The Fix-It_Stick 6-25 in-lb driver is $55 (free shipping)

Mini All-In-One Torque Driver | Fix It Sticks

Fix It Sticks' Mini All-in-One Torque Driver will become your go-to for tightening scope rings and more to the torque value you need, from 6-25 in-lbs.

store.fixitsticks.com

As a retired Metrologist I check mine with dead weight (force equals mass corrected for local gravity) and a ruler (beam level at test torque with socket held in bench vise).
Can easily get better than 1% at calibration.

I have that little Fix It Sticks torque wrench in my range bag. It works, but my Fat Wrench is much better in terms of ease of use.

 

[FourT6and2]

I've added another wrench to the group and the tester should be here this weekend.

 

[Ericbc7]

My FAT wrench is easy to use, the vortex broke first use (the numbers came loose so settings are meaningless). my fixit stix variable torque is handy but tightens to a lower torque than my older Borka torque device set at the same number. I dont know if any of them are close to the spec.

 

[Safariman]

I have pre set T handles, Craftsmen and Fixit sticks. I would only buy the Fixit sticks now.

 

[ODA324]

Any interest in torque wrench reviews/testing that would be specific for firearms? I have a bunch here: Wiha, Lyman, Tekton, Fix it Sticks, etc. I have a digital torque tester on its way to me that I can use to test the accuracy and precision of these wrenches. I'm thinking of writing up some reviews if people are interested.

Wera, Stahlwille or Hazet are hard to beat. In this group Wera is a little better buy.

 

[FourT6and2]

Wera, Stahlwille or Hazet are hard to beat. In this group Wera is a little better buy.

Wera tools look great. Unfortunately, I don't have any. And in order to get a useable range for precision rifles, you'd have to buy 3 different Wera wrenches. They have a three-piece set that covers the needed ranges, but that seems like a bit of a hassle. Although, I do understand that torque wrenches are more accurate and precise when set to the middle of their ranges, so that's probably why Wera does this.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Any interest in torque wrench reviews/testing that would be specific for firearms? I have a bunch here: Wiha, Lyman, Tekton, Fix it Sticks, etc. I have a digital torque tester on its way to me that I can use to test the accuracy and precision of these wrenches. I'm thinking of writing up some reviews if people are interested.

No its worthless for a few reasons.

Every brand has a specification range -+
Are you using them all brand new from the packaging?
Are you having each one calibrated before testing?
Firearms application do not need to be exact, ever wonder why many companies give a huge range? They all work.

Does your digital torque tester cost over $10K? If not its worthless and they need to be calibrated as well.

Its an exercise in jerking off that will just have ignorant people throwing shit at companies who do not deserve it because they don't even understand what it is they are testing.

 

[FourT6and2]

Every brand has a specification range -+

And? I'll test the ones I bought to see if they fall within their specified ranges.

Are you using them all brand new from the packaging?

Yes.

Are you having each one calibrated before testing?

No. That defeats the purpose. The point is to see how good each one is compared to the marketing claims. Most people aren't going to buy a torque wrench and then send it off to get calibrated before yanking on their rifle.

Firearms application do not need to be exact, ever wonder why many companies give a huge range? They all work.

Not one single component on my rifle specifies a wide range of torque values. They are all incredibly specific.

Does your digital torque tester cost over $10K? If not its worthless and they need to be calibrated as well.

No. And yes, it will be calibrated by a local company.

Its an exercise in jerking off that will just have ignorant people throwing shit at companies who do not deserve it because they don't even understand what it is they are testing.

Ok, then I won't do it. Oh well.

Alright everybody, never mind!

 

[Baron23]

No its worthless for a few reasons.

Every brand has a specification range -+
Are you using them all brand new from the packaging?
Are you having each one calibrated before testing?
Firearms application do not need to be exact, ever wonder why many companies give a huge range? They all work.

Does your digital torque tester cost over $10K? If not its worthless and they need to be calibrated as well.

Its an exercise in jerking off that will just have ignorant people throwing shit at companies who do not deserve it because they don't even understand what it is they are testing.

Ok, then I won't do it.

No, def do it and ignore the naysayers

 

[Robert S]

And? I'll test the ones I bought to see if they fall within their specified ranges.


Yes.


No. That defeats the purpose. The point is to see how good each one is compared to the marketing claims. Most people aren't going to buy a torque wrench and then send it off to get calibrated before yanking on their rifle.


Not one single component on my rifle specifies a wide range of torque values. They are all incredibly specific.


No. And yes, it will be calibrated by a local company.


Ok, then I won't do it. Oh well.

Alright everybody, never mind!

I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or actually responding to the feedback. My feedback would be that you should follow your interest down the rabbit hole and publish your results. some will find it useful, some will dismiss, and others will discover it when they wonder the same thing at some point in the future. In other words, who cares what a drunk dude on the internet says about your desire to learn about the importance of precision torque wrenches? My strong suspicion is that if it were not relevant, there wouldn’t be a torque wrench to begin with. Find out the answer to your question.