Torque Wrench Shootout: Reviews + Tests

[kortik]

1. These error numbers look crazy high and these numbers are not in line with our tolerances.
2. Since introduction of BTD at the end of 2019 we've had no complaints about potential overtorquing.
3. The owner of this particular BTD is very welcome to contact me by PM and to send this BTD back to me, so I could find out what is going on...

Boris
Borka Tools

 

[Budrichard]

I have been using the Borka set for about two years on numerous scope mountings with 100% success.
I find the level arm principle to be satisfying from a Physics standpoint.
Indeed that is what Torque is, force at a distance.
It’s all I have and use!
-Richard
BTW Good Reviews!!!!

 

[Gavin-in-Utah]

Yeah I know the Fat Wrench is pretty popular. But I didn't buy one because it wasn't something I wanted to own. Keep in mind I'm not out here buying every torque wrench on the planet. This started as a personal curiosity thing as to which wrench would work best for me. But if someone wants me to include a Fat Wrench, they can always send it to me to test. I will send it back.

That said, all the wrenches I'm testing are new. So if someone sends me a 4-year-old Fat Wrench that's out of calibration, the test will reflect that.

I would love to test stuff from Seekonk, CDI, and some of the higher-end torque drivers out there from Wera, Stahlwille, etc. But I would wind up spending thousands of dollars lol

Thank you for sharing your info. I enjoyed it.

 

[kortik]

1. These error numbers look crazy high and these numbers are not in line with our tolerances.
2. Since introduction of BTD at the end of 2019 we've had no complaints about potential overtorquing.
3. The owner of this particular BTD is very welcome to contact me by PM and to send this BTD back to me, so I could find out what is going on...

Boris
Borka Tools

FYI, the owner of this particular BTD did send me a PM in the second part of September 2022, and I've provided all necessary info on how to send his BTD to me. However, I've never received his BTD for detailed evaluation or heard from him again since September of 2022.

 

[FourT6and2]

UPDATE

I've continued to use all of these wrenches since making this thread. My go-to is the Wiha 18-62. One tool to do it all. Easy to use. No complicated steps to follow or special ways you need to hold it. It's a screwdriver. It's stout. It's small-ish. It's calibrated. It's accurate. It's repeatable. It's precise. No complaints. The Fix-it-sticks seem to work great as well.

Oh, and that last wrench did show up. The Mountz FGA-80 8-80 in/lb. Super high quality. Digital readout, industrial applications. Same performance as the Wiha. But costs a lot. I haven't gotten around to typing up all the data. But I will at some point. Although, I wouldn't recommend this wrench unless you're using it in a lab, aerospace assembly, etc. It's overkill. But it's super cool.

 

[FuhQ]

Fix-it-Sticks now has multi-torque limiters that go from 6-25, and 15-65 in. Lbs. They also make individual torque-specific limiters for precise torquing. I have really come to love their products.

I put together a completely comprehensive kit of their individual limiters (for specific things I use) with a 10, 18, 20, 25, 45, 65, 70, 80, and 100 in.lbs. limiters, and both sizes of the multi-torque limiters, screwdriver bits, and a set of their precise levels (mounts to pic rail). It wasn’t cheap, but I have everything I need in one small bag that I can carry in my range bag, or throw in my BOB, to mount or reinstall a scope in the field, without a vise or stand, should I ever need to. And everything is mechanical, so no batteries to fail, and if stored properly, should work fine for decades.

 

[FourT6and2]

Fix-it-Sticks now has multi-torque limiters that go from 6-25, and 15-65 in. Lbs. They also make individual torque-specific limiters for precise torquing. I have really come to love their products.

I put together a completely comprehensive kit of their individual limiters (for specific things I use) with a 10, 18, 20, 25, 45, 65, 70, 80, and 100 in.lbs. limiters, and both sizes of the multi-torque limiters, screwdriver bits, and a set of their precise levels (mounts to pic rail). It wasn’t cheap, but I have everything I need in one small bag that I can carry in my range bag, or throw in my BOB, to mount or reinstall a scope in the field, without a vise or stand, should I ever need to. And everything is mechanical, so no batteries to fail, and if stored properly, should work fine for decades.

Yeah... like the ones I tested a year ago lol?

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Conrad Bahr invented the torque wrench in 1918.

JMHO = A true craftsman does not use a torque wrench. Similar to an old bi-plane pilot who flew by the seat of his pants.... Once a man has "fastened" things together, he develops a feel for how a fastener is going together. That torque wrench is not going to tell you that the bolt has bottomed out and the scope or head bolt on an engine is not compressing the two parts together. Most bolts that are broke off are hell to get out because they were bottomed and then broke off.

Ask me how I know.

Hobo

 

[FourT6and2]

A true craftsman does not use a torque wrench... Once a man has "fastened" things together, he develops a feel for how a fastener is going together.

Uhhhh... no.

 

[SuperBoot]

JMHO = A true craftsman does not use a torque wrench.

Once a man has "fastened" things together, he develops a feel for how a fastener is going together.

I too torque lug nuts via the gütentite ugga dugga method, but this is still some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

Shoot an email over to JGR or Petronas AMG and ask them how much experience and feel they torque their cam caps and head bolts to

 

[kortik]

Fix-it-Sticks now has multi-torque limiters that go from 6-25, and 15-65 in. Lbs. They also make individual torque-specific limiters for precise torquing. I have really come to love their products.

I put together a completely comprehensive kit of their individual limiters (for specific things I use) with a 10, 18, 20, 25, 45, 65, 70, 80, and 100 in.lbs. limiters, and both sizes of the multi-torque limiters, screwdriver bits, and a set of their precise levels (mounts to pic rail). It wasn’t cheap, but I have everything I need in one small bag that I can carry in my range bag, or throw in my BOB, to mount or reinstall a scope in the field, without a vise or stand, should I ever need to. And everything is mechanical, so no batteries to fail, and if stored properly, should work fine for decades.

About prices for torque limiter kits... Here is the relatively new offering from Wheeler Eng., which is reasonably priced in line (to the best of my knowledge) with actual production costs for torque limiters made in Asia, and which is clearly aimed at very successfully competition with FIS:
Amazon product ASIN B08N4CVW9GMay our SH torque tool tester (OP) be potentially interested to get this kit and test its torque limiters, and then compare with FIS stuff, which is being sold, per torque limiter, for something like 3+ times more? This would be a great fun to read such evaluation from OP...

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I too torque lug nuts via the gütentite ugga dugga method, but this is still some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

Shoot an email over to JGR or Petronas AMG and ask them how much experience and feel they torque their cam caps and head bolts to

The wonderful thing about America... We can all have an opinion.
Anyone carrying a torque wrench into a fire fight ?
Next time you get around a Caterpillar field service mechanics truck look at the dirt built up on the case for the torque wrench... If there is one there.

 

[FourT6and2]

The wonderful thing about America... We can all have an opinion.
Anyone carrying a torque wrench into a fire fight ?

That's a straw-man/red-herring argument. I don't care what someone in a fire fight does. People who work on high-performance "anything" use torque wrenches. Aerospace, automotive, manufacturing, engineering, precision shooting, electronics... the list goes on and on. What works for some knuckle dragger changing the oil on his beater F150 pickup in his driveway might not work for someone assembling the $15,000,000 head on an F1 car for Petronas before a race. Asserting that "true craftsmen" don't use torque wrenches because they can feel it by hand is utterly inane to the point where you gotta be trolling.

Are our bolt-action rifles $15M F1 cars? No. But that's not the point either. And spending $85 on a decent torque wrench isn't gonna break the bank on a rifle that costs $6,000 – $10,000 all said and done.

The steering wheel bolt on my race car requires a very specific torque + number of degrees to be fastened properly in accordance with the guys who designed the thing. The center-lock wheel nuts require 443-ft/lb of torque, then back off 60-degrees, then re-torque to that same 443 ft/lbs. Nobody is doing that based on "feel".

 

[Milf Dots]

UPDATE

I've continued to use all of these wrenches since making this thread. My go-to is the Wiha 18-62. One tool to do it all. Easy to use. No complicated steps to follow or special ways you need to hold it. It's a screwdriver. It's stout. It's small-ish. It's calibrated. It's accurate. It's repeatable. It's precise. No complaints. The Fix-it-sticks seem to work great as well.

Oh, and that last wrench did show up. The Mountz FGA-80 8-80 in/lb. Super high quality. Digital readout, industrial applications. Same performance as the Wiha. But costs a lot. I haven't gotten around to typing up all the data. But I will at some point. Although, I wouldn't recommend this wrench unless you're using it in a lab, aerospace assembly, etc. It's overkill. But it's super cool.

What was the price of that Mountz? thnx

 

[Hobo Hilton]

That's a straw-man/red-herring argument. I don't care what someone in a fire fight does. People who work on high-performance "anything" use torque wrenches. Aerospace, automotive, manufacturing, engineering, precision shooting, electronics... the list goes on and on. What works for some knuckle dragger changing the oil on his beater F150 pickup in his driveway might not work for someone assembling the $15,000,000 head on an F1 car for Petronas before a race. Asserting that "true craftsmen" don't use torque wrenches because they can feel it by hand is utterly inane to the point where you gotta be trolling.

Are our bolt-action rifles $15M F1 cars? No. But that's not the point either. And spending $85 on a decent torque wrench isn't gonna break the bank on a rifle that costs $6,000 – $10,000 all said and done.

The steering wheel bolt on my race car requires a very specific torque + number of degrees to be fastened properly in accordance with the guys who designed the thing. The center-lock wheel nuts require 443-ft/lb of torque, then back off 60-degrees, then re-torque to that same 443 ft/lbs. Nobody is doing that based on "feel".

My life does not depend on your race car.

 

[Tokay444]

Conrad Bahr invented the torque wrench in 1918.

JMHO = A true craftsman does not use a torque wrench. Similar to an old bi-plane pilot who flew by the seat of his pants.... Once a man has "fastened" things together, he develops a feel for how a fastener is going together. That torque wrench is not going to tell you that the bolt has bottomed out and the scope or head bolt on an engine is not compressing the two parts together. Most bolts that are broke off are hell to get out because they were bottomed and then broke off.

Ask me how I know.

Hobo

Critical fasteners have entered the chat.

 

[Tokay444]

The wonderful thing about America... We can all have an opinion.
Anyone carrying a torque wrench into a fire fight ?
Next time you get around a Caterpillar field service mechanics truck look at the dirt built up on the case for the torque wrench... If there is one there.

The guy making the real money on engine rebuild has a calibrated torque wrench. I promise you that.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Critical fasteners have entered the chat.

We could enter the importance of re-torquing after 8 hours of operation, also.

 

[Tokay444]

We could enter the importance of re-torquing after 8 hours of operation, also.

If that's what's spec'd, then yes, we should.

 

[FuhQ]

Yeah... like the ones I tested a year ago lol?

I don’t know what you did a year ago, I’ve never even seen you post on here. So, congrats?

 

[FourT6and2]

I don’t know what you did a year ago, I’ve never even seen you post on here. So, congrats?

Dude. You're posting in a thread that I started where I test torque wrenches, including the exact ones you just posted about claiming they were some new-ish product. Are you that dense?

 

[Tokay444]

This is awesome!

 

[FuhQ]

Dude. You're posting in a thread that I started, where I test torque wrenches, including the exact ones you just posted about claiming they were some new product. Are you that dense?

Yeah, and I’d never seen this thread before today. I never said they were “new”, just new to me, and I don’t see them mentioned a lot.

Don’t break your arm jerking yourself off…

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah, and I’d never seen this thread before today. I never said they were “new”, just new to me, and I don’t see them mentioned a lot.

Don’t break your arm jerking yourself off…

So you didn't actually look at any of the previous posts in this thread?

 

[FuhQ]

So you didn't actually look at any of the previous posts in this thread?

Nope

 

[kthomas]

The wonderful thing about America... We can all have an opinion.
Anyone carrying a torque wrench into a fire fight ?
Next time you get around a Caterpillar field service mechanics truck look at the dirt built up on the case for the torque wrench... If there is one there.

I'm glad you don't work on the Boeing assembly line

That said, while potentially interesting to some, I'm unconvinced that specific torque is required/needed for any part of what we do with precision rifles. Obviously it's important to know what torque limits you can't exceed, such as for your scope rings. Having a torque wrench that gets you the approximate value is a great tool to have for such applications - I use Borka wrenches for mounting my scopes. More accurate torque wrenches would gain me nothing over the Borka's for this application. Specific torque limits are guidelines and not necessities for pretty much all of our gear in this sport, unlike some other applications which require critical adherence to torque spec's and procedures.

I don't use any torque wrenches/limiters on my action screws - I just use a T-handled allen key and torque to feel. My barreled action gets removed all the time and I have essentially no change in POI. So to your point, I think a lot can be done by 'feel' for our specific applications.

Interesting to see the tolerances of some of the equipment tested here, but the torque wrench/limiter is only one piece of the puzzle. Another important part of the equation is the lubricity of any lubricant or thread locker applied to the fastener itself. Whatever torque you may see at the wrench can actually be vastly different at the fastener depending on any thread lube/locker being used. Important context for those that are truly interested in having precise torque specs, but functionally not very important at all for real world use in our application.

 

[ma smith]

I don't use any torque wrenches/limiters on my action screws - I just use a T-handled allen key and torque to feel.

While the absolute value of torque may not matter, having a repeatable torque value certainly matters to accuracy for alot of rifles.

One grain of truth is that using a torque wrench is root cause of many stripped threads. If that clicker mechanism fails and you are "100% confident the tool is working"... typically won't feel those aaluminum threads being stripped as you crank away...

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I'm glad you don't work on the Boeing assembly line

That said, while potentially interesting to some, I'm unconvinced that specific torque is required/needed for any part of what we do with precision rifles. Obviously it's important to know what torque limits you can't exceed, such as for your scope rings. Having a torque wrench that gets you the approximate value is a great tool to have for such applications - I use Borka wrenches for mounting my scopes. More accurate torque wrenches would gain me nothing over the Borka's for this application. Specific torque limits are guidelines and not necessities for pretty much all of our gear in this sport, unlike some other applications which require critical adherence to torque spec's and procedures.

I don't use any torque wrenches/limiters on my action screws - I just use a T-handled allen key and torque to feel. My barreled action gets removed all the time and I have essentially no change in POI. So to your point, I think a lot can be done by 'feel' for our specific applications.

Interesting to see the tolerances of some of the equipment tested here, but the torque wrench/limiter is only one piece of the puzzle. Another important part of the equation is the lubricity of any lubricant or thread locker applied to the fastener itself. Whatever torque you may see at the wrench can actually be vastly different at the fastener depending on any thread lube/locker being used. Important context for those that are truly interested in having precise torque specs, but functionally not very important at all for real world use in our application.

Thanks for this info. Actually I do follow some of the experts. But, they even admit there are a lot of variations in the real world.

Bolt Science Web Site

www.boltscience.com

 

[FourT6and2]

I'm glad you don't work on the Boeing assembly line

That said, while potentially interesting to some, I'm unconvinced that specific torque is required/needed for any part of what we do with precision rifles. Obviously it's important to know what torque limits you can't exceed, such as for your scope rings. Having a torque wrench that gets you the approximate value is a great tool to have for such applications - I use Borka wrenches for mounting my scopes. More accurate torque wrenches would gain me nothing over the Borka's for this application. Specific torque limits are guidelines and not necessities for pretty much all of our gear in this sport, unlike some other applications which require critical adherence to torque spec's and procedures.

I don't use any torque wrenches/limiters on my action screws - I just use a T-handled allen key and torque to feel. My barreled action gets removed all the time and I have essentially no change in POI. So to your point, I think a lot can be done by 'feel' for our specific applications.

Interesting to see the tolerances of some of the equipment tested here, but the torque wrench/limiter is only one piece of the puzzle. Another important part of the equation is the lubricity of any lubricant or thread locker applied to the fastener itself. Whatever torque you may see at the wrench can actually be vastly different at the fastener depending on any thread lube/locker being used. Important context for those that are truly interested in having precise torque specs, but functionally not very important at all for real world use in our application.

I agree: extremely specific torque values aren't super critical in this application (and I did mention that a few times in this thread already). I mean yeah... 24 in/lb vs 24.3 in/lb isn't gonna matter here. But I do like to keep things consistent. When I torque a barrel, scope, rings, action screws, etc... I'd rather simply use a torque wrench and know for sure I did it properly and consistently. And this thread isn't really about that. It's more about seeing how marketing claims actually stack up with real-world use for an end user.

BTW, how many times have people come to The Hide to troubleshoot a rig that isn't shooting only to discover it was because of something as simple as an incorrectly torqued bolt somewhere. Loose barrel, over-tightened action screw in the front and under-tightened in the rear, scope tube got crushed by over-tightening, etc. It happens a lot.

And to your other point, most torque specs I've come across, from barrels to actions to scopes, specify wet or dry.


Also I disagree with the other guy. He basically said torque wrenches are useless and that a, "true craftsmen does not use a torque wrench." Maybe that was tongue-in-cheek. I dunno. But I do know true craftsmen use the right tool for the job. Maybe he doesn't use one and it works for his application. This thread isn't meant to convince people they should or shouldn't use one. It's simply meant to have a look at some of the commonly used tools available and see how they stack up.

 

[FourT6and2]

While the absolute value of torque may not matter, having a repeatable torque value certainly matters to accuracy for alot of rifles.

Totally agree.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Actually some good discussions here. We bring experiences from a wide scope of industry and applications.
In my history I have used much more "Never Seez" than "Loctite"....... Wet or dry torque spec.
Glad I did not work for Boeing.

 

[tomcatmv]

Been using my Wheeler Fat Wrench for some years now and have never had a scope or rings come loose. Also works on action screws. I also use some clear nail polish on the threads. Just make sure you dial the fat wrench back to zero when you're done.

 

[kortik]

Amazon product ASIN B08N4CVW9G
This looks really interesting as a very reasonably priced alternative to Fix It Sticks. BTW, users feedback and this product ratings on Amazon are super positive. Those, who prefer a torque limiter concept, may want to look into this offering by Wheeler. When I have time, I'll do a comparison between a Wheeler kit mentioned above, and a matching Fix It Sticks kit, and post results in this thread. I hope OP does not mind if I do such detailed comparison in this thread. The price difference between Wheeler branded torque limiters and Fix It Sticks branded torque limiters (made by Sloky) is too big to keep me from investigating this situation.

 

[asplund01]

Replacement Fix It Sticks 15 in/lb arrived with a pre-paid shipping label to send the dud back.

Much better results this time. Performed better than the Wiha.

First, this is fantastic! I was set in getting fix it sticks and now wiha looks like the way to go. Second, question, is there any way for less educated ppl like myself to see if one of these is off (like your fix it was)?

Thanks again for great insights!

 

[Newbie2020]

I would never let anyone tighten my scope rings without a torque wrench and just tighten to “feel”. No way. Even a newbie like me knows that.

 

[ToddM]

Love these tests, I've had a couple FIS that I've felt were off quite a bit but with no good way to measure them it's hard to say. At the price I'm sure there's lots of sample to sample variation in these. As others have said, in our use repeatable is probably more important than accurate. People love FIS, myself included, but if you get a bad one, how many people ever really know. I'd happily pay a reasonable price to be able to send in FIS etc. and get them checked just to see that they are in the ballpark as opposed to way off. To me the tiny screws are where it really matters, small red dot mounts, scope top caps etc. where being a few in/lbs off can damage a scope tube or strip a screw/thread.

Any industry I'm familiar with where the torque value itself really matters uses very expensive torque wrenches, and they have them calibrated at least 1-2 times a year. Any part/assembly that really cares if you hit the torque accurately usually gets very specific about how you do it, the order it's tightened, if it needs to be retightened after so much time/use, if the bolts should be dry/clean or with something on them (antisieze, loctite etc.) because actual torque transferred to the assembly varies significantly between dry and wet bolts.

Heck even the Whia and $500 Montz is +/- 6%. It's a lot when you start getting into the 65-80in/lbs units if you really care about accurate torque values. That's sample to sample variation on 65in/lbs from 61-69 in/lbs, and that's just what they consider acceptable, not the outliers. The difference is at that price you're much more likely to not get a bad one, and have values that are not pushing 6%

I understand at "normal" even HIGH prices for torque wrenches, extreme precision is not possible from sample to sample. That said I think it was Borka that used to sell a maybe 10-80lb adjustable screwdriver version and when it was sent they gave you the in/lbs offset to reference that was really nice.

Avid has a unit out that's looks nice 10-70in/lbs nice, be interesting to see how it tests. The Lyman Pro-drive looks like the one Vortex was selling for awhile but I think the Vortex only went 10-50in/lbs

 

[kortik]

I understand at "normal" even HIGH prices for torque wrenches, extreme precision is not possible from sample to sample. That said I think it was Borka that used to sell a maybe 10-80lb adjustable screwdriver version and when it was sent they gave you the in/lbs offset to reference that was really nice.

You've correct, we've tested every one of our torque screwdrivers (made in Taiwan) in 2009-2011 before shipping to the customers, and then provided an offset information for the adjustment scale to be as close to actual torque value as possible. We have stopped selling this item sometime in 2011-2012 because Weaver picked exactly the same design tool to sell under their brand, however Weaver did not provide any offset recommendations. It was a good all around torque screwdriver, but not something super accurate unless actual testing was conducted. But this torque screwdriver surely works for most gun related applications...

 

[FourT6and2]

First, this is fantastic! I was set in getting fix it sticks and now wiha looks like the way to go. Second, question, is there any way for less educated ppl like myself to see if one of these is off (like your fix it was)?

Thanks again for great insights!

I think the only way to really "know" if a torque wrench is within spec is to test it using a calibrated testing device.

 

[FourT6and2]

Heck even the Whia and $500 Montz is +/- 6%.

It's important to note that this number is their acceptable tolerance for any tool that goes out the door. But of the ones I've tested, their accuracy and precision is actually MUCH better. That said, I don't think any manufacturer would guarantee an error % reaching down in to the tenths of a percent lol. That's a much harder target to nail each and every time unless they price a wrench at astronomical dollar amounts.

As far as "does it matter" for firearm applications? Well, someone buying a Ruger RPR and mounting a Primary Arms scope... maybe it doesn't matter to them. Someone buying an $80,000 O/U or someone who competes in the Olympics... maybe they want to make sure their shotgun trigger group is torqued properly and they can afford a $200 wrench lol

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Conrad Bahr invented the torque wrench in 1918.

JMHO = A true craftsman does not use a torque wrench. Similar to an old bi-plane pilot who flew by the seat of his pants.... Once a man has "fastened" things together, he develops a feel for how a fastener is going together. That torque wrench is not going to tell you that the bolt has bottomed out and the scope or head bolt on an engine is not compressing the two parts together. Most bolts that are broke off are hell to get out because they were bottomed and then broke off.

Ask me how I know.

Hobo

This is true for not breaking fasteners, but its also bullshit as far as everything else. You can develop a feel but to pretend its just as good is pure ignorance. Repeatable, measurable values in precision applications is 100% relevant.

Why would you need to know if a bolt is bottomed out (which will never happen with a scope or mount) or a scope being crushed (never happen if you use appropriate torque values). Its a non - issue.

Not to mention fasteners are generally stretched when torqued. Every material, dimenstion and torque value will play into the elasticity of the fasteners as well as its fatigue and yield.

 

[iceng]

Exactly as @DeathBeforeDismount said.

A human can absolutely be trained to feel torque, and be crazy repeatable and accurate. HOWEVER !, we require constant calibration and feedback. We also do one task, so say a lubed bolt, or dry, or one pitch of thread to a specific torque value. Claiming experience lets you do various setups is rediculous. Only years of repeated exposure can get you close, not a "i did this in my shed last month, i got this..." but 100% use the correct tool for the job. Thats why the damn things were created.

 

[ToddM]

It's important to note that this number is their acceptable tolerance for any tool that goes out the door. But of the ones I've tested, their accuracy and precision is actually MUCH better. That said, I don't think any manufacturer would guarantee an error % reaching down in to the tenths of a percent lol. That's a much harder target to nail each and every time unless they price a wrench at astronomical dollar amounts.

As far as "does it matter" for firearm applications? Well, someone buying a Ruger RPR and mounting a Primary Arms scope... maybe it doesn't matter to them. Someone buying an $80,000 O/U or someone who competes in the Olympics... maybe they want to make sure their shotgun trigger group is torqued properly and they can afford a $200 wrench lol

I don't know, I used to shoot All-American in trap, and went to the Olympic training center for tryouts........in my experience, often those that have the most money and buy the highest $$ guns also take the worst care of them. I've seen spoiled brats toss $20k Perazzi's barrel first into 55gal drum trash cans walking off the line, or slam the barrel into the concrete at the shooting line so hard you could hear it 3 trap houses down. I know All-Americans that are household names in Trap that clean their shotgun barrels once a year, and by cleaning I mean they just buy new ones.

I've never seen anyone use a torque wrench on a Perazzi, Kriegoff, etc. I doubt you could even get them to give you torque values. K80 manual doesn't have any. I remember asking Perazzi at the Grand in the 90's what lube I should use on mine.......one of their Italian smiths they flew over that could not even speak english said something behind the counter at the Perazzi booth, and Lucio translated....."whatever motor oil you have". That said most of those trap guys could use some torque values I've seen a ton of stuff ham fisted and stripped on spendy trap guns over the decades.

 

[FourT6and2]

I don't know, I used to shoot All-American in trap, and went to the Olympic training center for tryouts........in my experience, often those that have the most money and buy the highest $$ guns also take the worst care of them. I've seen spoiled brats toss $20k Perazzi's barrel first into 55gal drum trash cans walking off the line, or slam the barrel into the concrete at the shooting line so hard you could hear it 3 trap houses down. I know All-Americans that are household names in Trap that clean their shotgun barrels once a year, and by cleaning I mean they just buy new ones.

I've never seen anyone use a torque wrench on a Perazzi, Kriegoff, etc. I doubt you could even get them to give you torque values. K80 manual doesn't have any. I remember asking Perazzi at the Grand in the 90's what lube I should use on mine.......one of their Italian smiths they flew over that could not even speak english said something behind the counter at the Perazzi booth, and Lucio translated....."whatever motor oil you have". That said most of those trap guys could use some torque values I've seen a ton of stuff ham fisted and stripped on spendy trap guns over the decades.

Well I stand corrected haha. That's also a bit terrifying. I suppose if someone is sponsored and gets a free (new) gun every season, they probably don't care.


EDIT:
Your comment got me thinking about some guys I met this past winter while snowboarding in B.C. One of them was a young Olympic bi-athlete on the Australian team. We got to talking about guns and I asked him about his competition rifle and if he does load development so he knows his rifle shoots perfectly. His response was, "What's that? I just use whatever ammo they hand me." The guy had no idea you could even hand-load ammo and tune the charge and seating depth to your rifle. I asked him what kind of wax he used on his skis during a big Olympic event. Again, he had no idea. He said he just used whatever wax was around.

Maybe his "tech" or his team coach knows about these things, but it seemed like nobody really cared. He was more concerned with diet and exercise. Which is totally fair. But I assumed he would also have his gear in perfect working order.

 

[Tokay444]

Well I stand corrected haha. That's also a bit terrifying. I suppose if someone is sponsored and gets a free (new) gun every season, they probably don't care.


EDIT:
Your comment got me thinking about some guys I met this past winter while snowboarding in B.C. One of them was a young Olympic bi-athlete on the Australian team. We got to talking about guns and I asked him about his competition rifle and if he does load development so he knows his rifle shoots perfectly. His response was, "What's that? I just use whatever ammo they hand me." The guy had no idea you could even hand-load ammo and tune the charge and seating depth to your rifle. I asked him what kind of wax he used on his skis during a big Olympic event. Again, he had no idea. He said he just used whatever wax was around.

Maybe his "tech" or his team coach knows about these things, but it seemed like nobody really cared. He was more concerned with diet and exercise. Which is totally fair. But I assumed he would also have his gear in perfect working order.

Does Biathlon not use 22LR anymore?

 

[FredHammer]

Too much egg head. Just roll RFT. Never fails!

 

[FourT6and2]

Does Biathlon not use 22LR anymore?

Yeah, they do. Which is probably why he had no clue what hand loading was or barrel harmonics. I just thought it was interesting that a pro shooter, even one shooting .22, didn't know much about firearms in general. We compared our respective disciplines and I shared a bit about long-range shooting

 

[db2000]

What’s the cliff notes on this derailment? Thanks for testing all these products.
Is there one that’s most accurate to recommend for scopes in particular?

 

[E. Bryant]

Yeah, they do. Which is probably why he had no clue what hand loading was or barrel harmonics. I just thought it was interesting that a pro shooter, even one shooting .22, didn't know much about firearms in general. We compared our respective disciplines and I shared a bit about long-range shooting

Dude's probably doing a minimum of 25-30 hours/week of aerobic training - doesn't have the time or energy to worry about things that are largely inconsequential to success.

The fact that this person made it to the Olympic level without knowing such things would make me stop and consider my priorities, instead of trying to impose my perspective on him.

Back to the thread...

 

[FourT6and2]

Dude's probably doing a minimum of 25-30 hours/week of aerobic training - doesn't have the time or energy to worry about things that are largely inconsequential to success.

The fact that this person made it to the Olympic level without knowing such things would make me stop and consider my priorities, instead of trying to impose my perspective on him.

You're reaching dude. Imposing my perspective on him? That's exactly what you're doing here—projecting. Get over yourself and that chip you have on your shoulder. We were snowboarding together for 7 days in the back country with his dad, his brother, and some family friends and had fun talking shop.

Back to the thread...

What exactly have you contributed here? Every single one of your posts from the beginning has been nothing but confrontational. Piss off.

 

[FourT6and2]

What’s the cliff notes on this derailment? Thanks for testing all these products.
Is there one that’s most accurate to recommend for scopes in particular?

Just have a look at the testing results and choose one that appeals to you the most, feature-wise. I like Wiha the most because it comes with a full bit set, good warranty, it's calibrated with certificate, relatively affordable, comfortable to use, and good customer service.