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Sidearms & Scatterguns Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

#101
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mwalex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not call that smith a hack, by any extent.

Asking for a full refund makes little sense because non-refundable work has been performed on the pistol.

Anyone worth their salt will address, and correct, this issue, and that seems to be what has happened here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, it is my opinion that there's no way this thread could end well, and if I were the OP, not only would I not give those hacks my gun again to screw it up, I would demand a full refund.

Fitting a front sight is about a "2" out of 10 in the gunsmithing world. If they couldn't even accomplish that, I have serious doubts about anything they touched. </div></div> </div></div>

I guess you think a forum is just for praise and celebration.

Personally, I'm glad to know that a shop is putting out this trash. I don't think that "shit happens" in a custom shop, and if a gunsmith can't even fit a front sight, I want to know about it so I can be absolutely certain that I never even consider sending a gun to him.

If fuckups like this pass off as decent work in need of a few finishing touches, I should go into business doing gunsmithing. All I'd need are a few sledgehammers, punches, files, and a dremel tool, and if I put a high enough price tag on it, even you'd buy one.

At the price point of a custom gun, it better run and fit out of the box. If it doesn't, then that gunsmith isn't any good, plain and simple.

Especially when we're talking about a factory gun that was sent there running to begin with!

I don't care if people disagree with me or not. My opinion is that if you can't fit a front sight, and worse, if you don't test fire a gun to make sure the front sight won't fall off in the first few magazines, you're not a gunsmith--you're a hack.

OP, thanks for posting this. You probably saved a lot of people a whole lot of aggravation.

A gunsmith worth his salt knows how to fit a front sight properly the first time. It aint hard.

And there's no such thing as "non-refundable" work. If you're selling a service and the service is garbage, a refund is a bare minimum compared to replacing the firearm you destroyed.
 
#102
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP is just set on acting like a child, it seems. $1400 on a 1911 is a down payment. I've personally seen (and handled) multiple 1911's at 2 and 3 times that which shipped all jacked up. This is hardly earth shattering news.

If you want to be pissed and throw a fit, CALL the party responsible, and ream them out. Bitching about it here isn't going to solve any of your problems.

I had a gun get fucked up by a smith 3 times in a row. He literally did EVERYTHING he possibly could to make it right. I harbor no grudge about it, but I'm not going back to him for any work, either. He paid shipping, and insisted on making sure I was happy with the work. Offered to transfer a loaner to me while he worked on the repairs, etc.

I won't recommend his work, but I didn't feel the need to blast him on the net, either. Dude acted like a gentleman and didn't try to "screw me", just professionally isn't up to the standard I think he should be.

OTOH, I had a good friend drop $3k+ on a commander 1911 from a highly respected company. It was sent back 5 times, and replaced once...NEVER was right. I had no problem posting up in detail about how he got screwed by that shop. They HAD multiple opportunities to make it right and couldn't. He sold it at a loss, and was glad to be done with it. This was about the 5th jacked up gun of theirs I'd handled. THAT indicates systemic problems...not just an isolated event.

You don't know if the gun went into the wrong pile and shipped out before final work was performed...nothing. You know NOTHING about the backstory, but want to tear into them anyway. This isn't how gentlemen behave.

No one here is saying you shouldn't be pissed. I'd be pissed, but I would direct that energy at the shop. I'd let them know that their work is completely unacceptable, and that you want it made right immediately.

9/10 times shops will go the extra mile and give you free gear or services to attempt to make up for their obvious fumble, just to let you know that they too don't find this acceptable. In this case, after you have demonstrated that your primary concern was dragging their name through the mud rather than getting the problem fixed (as you decided to post this thread rather than contact them first), I hope they don't. </div></div>

Please see my above post, as apparently you don't understand the reason behind having a forum, either.
 
#103
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mwalex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not call that smith a hack, by any extent.

Asking for a full refund makes little sense because non-refundable work has been performed on the pistol.

Anyone worth their salt will address, and correct, this issue, and that seems to be what has happened here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW, it is my opinion that there's no way this thread could end well, and if I were the OP, not only would I not give those hacks my gun again to screw it up, I would demand a full refund.

Fitting a front sight is about a "2" out of 10 in the gunsmithing world. If they couldn't even accomplish that, I have serious doubts about anything they touched. </div></div> </div></div>

I guess you think a forum is just for praise and celebration.

Personally, I'm glad to know that a shop is putting out this trash. I don't think that "shit happens" in a custom shop, and if a gunsmith can't even fit a front sight, I want to know about it so I can be absolutely certain that I never even consider sending a gun to him.

If fuckups like this pass off as decent work in need of a few finishing touches, I should go into business doing gunsmithing. All I'd need are a few sledgehammers, punches, files, and a dremel tool, and if I put a high enough price tag on it, even you'd buy one.

At the price point of a custom gun, it better run and fit out of the box. If it doesn't, then that gunsmith isn't any good, plain and simple.

Especially when we're talking about a factory gun that was sent there running to begin with!

I don't care if people disagree with me or not. My opinion is that if you can't fit a front sight, and worse, if you don't test fire a gun to make sure the front sight won't fall off in the first few magazines, you're not a gunsmith--you're a hack.

OP, thanks for posting this. You probably saved a lot of people a whole lot of aggravation.

A gunsmith worth his salt knows how to fit a front sight properly the first time. It aint hard.

And there's no such thing as "non-refundable" work. If you're selling a service and the service is garbage, a refund is a bare minimum compared to replacing the firearm you destroyed. </div></div>
How many CDT front sights have you installed?
 
#105
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grimm17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is not an emotion on earth that cannot be expressed by sausage
-Danny DeVito </div></div>

The fact that you posted that makes me ask some serious questions about you. The fact that I know what movie that is from down right scares me...
 
#108
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to log off now getting a bit nauseas and feel like throwing up ! </div></div>
That seems like an unfair reaction.
 
#109
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....


Will any of you Clark Custom defense lawyers please quote where SMACK actually 'attacked' or 'bashed' the company? -- oh, that's right. He didn't. Not even once, matter of fact he even commented on how good it looked and felt. Unless of course you consider listing the factual problems and being upset, bashing. What a joke.

Just a bunch of emotional and personal attacks, justified by your friendships w/ Clark or that check you wrote them in the past.

My favorites by far are the 'tolerant' posts about how they've received sub-standard products and services before and were 'okay' with them. Uh, okay... some people like to live in trailers, others don't. To each his own.

Clark is a great company with a great reputation, they didn't get that way by building bad hardware. But somewhere along the line, a few things broke down and a paying customer got a sub-standard product. Clark will no doubt do the right thing and get it resolved, but I'd put money on it that the last thing Clark would do is point fingers at a customer for an obvious internal screw up.

Internet posts or not, the more you try and blame the customer (who received a bad product), the more you look bad. So feel free to tie your names and businesses onto the thread in defense of the indefensible and see where that gets you.

If I were Clark, I'd be pretty pissed at all of the continued bashing on SMACK, because it is only highlighting their screw up. The post count and imprint on Google is only getting bigger.

If you were really trying to defend Clark, you were better off saying "wow those guys are great, I've never heard of that. I sure hope they get that resolved.".

~badmojo
 
#110
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varmint6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Popcorn? </div></div>

Why yes please...


In all seriousness...

Custom 'smithing is a laborious and detail oriented job. Some of the big brand/name 'smiths are incredibly in demand, and thus stressed, so they are bound to have some incidents, and foul ups here and there... it happens to anyone who has ever worked on guns for a living, no matter how long they have done it. Granted some of these errors seen are the result of a lack of basic QC, which looks to be more of just trying to get jobs done quicker and may have ended up on the wrong side of a table, or something similar.

This is why any 'smith or shop needs to have a good check system going on, to ensure that all steps are done and results verified/QCd by another. Sure it takes a few more minutes for each major step, however it does save tons of time and money when you cut out any errors like this.... This is why the military uses such a system, and why firearms manufacturers use such systems.
 
#111
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't confuse a deliberate slam versus having a little tact in the way you go about things. I'm sure Clark's is thrilled to see how this was positively handled and will welcome his business again.</div></div>

Oh, interesting how you spun that around as if Clark was doing SMACK a favor by taking his money and giving him a malfunctioning handgun (after an entire year passed). Business is business. If they choose not to do business with SMACK in the future, they opened that door by shipping a handgun without QA'ing it. Hardly the fault of the customer.

~badmojo
 
#112
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

SMACK: "O'Doyle RULES"

Me: "O'Doyle, I got a feeling your whole family is goin down...but for now I gotta study".


No dog, and OP has a right to be upset but shit happens and it's
How you handle it that shows what kind of man you are. OP has a poor attitude about everything, you can't reason with people like that. Good luck OP, i hope your gun issue is worked out and it shoots true.
 
#113
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grimm17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really and the dumbfounded impala a couple posts up is a contribution?</div></div>

An impala? really?

You know what pisses me off is when people confuse a gazelle for an impala.

~badmojo
 
#114
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badmojo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grimm17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really and the dumbfounded impala a couple posts up is a contribution?</div></div>

An impala? really?

You know what pisses me off is when people confuse a gazelle for an impala.

~badmojo </div></div>
Yeah it's totally like calling a saber a sword.
 
#115
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP is just set on acting like a child, it seems. $1400 on a 1911 is a down payment. I've personally seen (and handled) multiple 1911's at 2 and 3 times that which shipped all jacked up. This is hardly earth shattering news.

If you want to be pissed and throw a fit, CALL the party responsible, and ream them out. Bitching about it here isn't going to solve any of your problems.

I had a gun get fucked up by a smith 3 times in a row. He literally did EVERYTHING he possibly could to make it right. I harbor no grudge about it, but I'm not going back to him for any work, either. He paid shipping, and insisted on making sure I was happy with the work. Offered to transfer a loaner to me while he worked on the repairs, etc.

I won't recommend his work, but I didn't feel the need to blast him on the net, either. Dude acted like a gentleman and didn't try to "screw me", just professionally isn't up to the standard I think he should be.

OTOH, I had a good friend drop $3k+ on a commander 1911 from a highly respected company. It was sent back 5 times, and replaced once...NEVER was right. I had no problem posting up in detail about how he got screwed by that shop. They HAD multiple opportunities to make it right and couldn't. He sold it at a loss, and was glad to be done with it. This was about the 5th jacked up gun of theirs I'd handled. THAT indicates systemic problems...not just an isolated event.

You don't know if the gun went into the wrong pile and shipped out before final work was performed...nothing. You know NOTHING about the backstory, but want to tear into them anyway. This isn't how gentlemen behave.

No one here is saying you shouldn't be pissed. I'd be pissed, but I would direct that energy at the shop. I'd let them know that their work is completely unacceptable, and that you want it made right immediately.

9/10 times shops will go the extra mile and give you free gear or services to attempt to make up for their obvious fumble, just to let you know that they too don't find this acceptable. In this case, after you have demonstrated that your primary concern was dragging their name through the mud rather than getting the problem fixed (as you decided to post this thread rather than contact them first), I hope they don't. </div></div>

Please see my above post, as apparently you don't understand the reason behind having a forum, either. </div></div>

Yeah it's for internet children like you that always stomp up and down to get something for free. Isn't that how it's done today?

Perhaps he should sue them too..for all the down time and lost money for participating in this campfire circle-jerk.
 
#116
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Ok. Let's take same analogy, on the HIDE. Member A does a transaction with Member B. Member A is less than satisfied, and posts Member B as shit in the Good Guy List.

I have yet to see anyone coming to defense of Member B, unless, he/she has close relations with Members X Y and Z.

Same analogy. Vendor A receives email from Supplier A, and publicizes it on SH. Vendor A is defended all day long because of close relations and business with Members X Y and Z.

 
#117
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aren't you just a passive saint there Jim. 4 and 6K handguns are a dime a dozen huh? Laughing...</div></div>
In the land of hand-finished 1911's, yeah...they are.
 
#118
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLUHstud</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Smack paid 1400 dollars and waited an amount of time for a product, that entitles him, in my opinion, to post whatever he wants. </div></div>
Yup, he is free to post ANYTHING he wants...and those reading it are <span style="font-style: italic">also</span> free to post ANYTHING they want about his behavior in doing so.
 
#119
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

The OP could have made an identical post but without posting the builder’s name and 99% of the responses would have been the same.

I am pretty sure of this because there have been numerous such threads in the past on this site involving all manner of shops and products. Each time, there has been a very polarized set of posts in response.

One side has the opinion that the OP has reason to be upset and want a fix but should allow the shop involved an opportunity to address the situation before holding them hostage on public forums.

The other side has the opinion that the OP has reason to be upset and want a fix which justifies throwing a public fit on internet forums before the shop involved even knows there is an issue.

Basically this just reflects the two personality types involved and is also a pretty good indicator of how both types handle most things in their life.

As far as sticking up for buddies and loyalty to friends, you bet your ass. I do that with a fucking passion. Is that what is involved here? . . . . . Not in my case and I’ll bet not in the case of the others questioning your handling of the problem.

All you have to do is search similar threads over the last several years. Regardless of the shop location, the product or the principals involved, you will see me and a lot of the same people that posted on your thread have the same response. Doing so will most certainly deflate your paranoia and worries that the South is going to rise again and burn your wagon over something like this. (although I can’t speak for Rich)

Netranger, your analogy is about as clear as a Vincent van Gogh painting.
 
#120
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

WOW just signed on and bam... TC, I thought you were going to elaborate further on your processes on deliveribles for everyone to learn from????? That would be a huge benefit to everyone not just select inviduals on what to expect and what shoudl be down when ordering.. lets hear more.

With so much name calling goin on here, I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been removed by the soo soo smart one!!! Like so many others have been in the past when the common discussions of gunsmiths vs consumers vs poor workmenship it doesnt take long??? We certainly can't have any bad publicity for someone...lol

Lets give to this evening before we say this thread has run its course...Have a great day folks its the 4th of July and i'm going to try and enjoy it without all the drama from this place. Where did the prmise go to help people on forums, i think that was what they were put up for not just to SELL SHIT and crappy services and banter back and forth...ITs all time to move on.. Hope your pistol is fixed fella.. Good Luck and remember you definately found out alot of good info on this thread for future builds didn't ya...
 
#121
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Smack,

Shit happens people make mistakes thats life, i am sure you have made a few. The basic concept is to give people a chance to redeem themselves before telling everyone how crappy they are.

You would be suprised how well a smith will treat you if you let him fix the problem, hell sometimes they will even go above and beyond and give you a discount on your next build for the way you handled the situation.

Stay calm and give the smith a chance next time. I promise they are pissed that a mistake happened also. do you think they want to do something twice and pay to reship product? i think not!!

I know you obviously don't give a shit but you have managed to black list yourself from at least 2 of the best rifle smiths in the country. In my opinion that would really be a huge bummer because it is still a dream of mine to own a kmw built rifle (especially since he doesnt' do customs anymore).

Remember just like with dogs its never good to shit in your own house. take all this with a grain of salt and remember sometimes it is harder to get your point across with just the keyboard, ftf communication or phone will help alot.
 
#122
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Exactly, members on this site are just supposed to pony up the cash to these types. Keep mistakes/ complete screw ups secret. Post raving reviews and never say, do or voice a opinion on anything negative, anything that could effect there bank accounts or those involved in the industry or the personal, customers bashing attacks will be swift in order. The fact is TC and such that have been doing the customer bashing, hide the mistakes from the public preaching are the fraction finatually profiting from his site, the rest are the PAYING CUSTOMER! You would think they would think about that when trying to bash a customer into the ground for posting his opinion of a SUBSTANDARD product.
 
#123
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The OP could have made an identical post but without posting the builder&#146;s name and 99% of the responses would have been the same.

I am pretty sure of this because there have been numerous such threads in the past on this site involving all manner of shops and products. Each time, there has been a very polarized set of posts in response.

One side has the opinion that the OP has reason to be upset and want a fix but should allow the shop involved an opportunity to address the situation before holding them hostage on public forums.

The other side has the opinion that the OP has reason to be upset and want a fix which justifies throwing a public fit on internet forums before the shop involved even knows there is an issue.

Basically this just reflects the two personality types involved and is also a pretty good indicator of how both types handle most things in their life.

As far as sticking up for buddies and loyalty to friends, you bet your ass. I do that with a fucking passion. Is that what is involved here? . . . . . Not in my case and I&#146;ll bet not in the case of the others questioning your handling of the problem.

All you have to do is search similar threads over the last several years. Regardless of the shop location, the product or the principals involved, you will see me and a lot of the same people that posted on your thread have the same response. Doing so will most certainly deflate your paranoia and worries that the South is going to rise again and burn your wagon over something like this. (although I can&#146;t speak for Rich)

</div></div>

Wasn't going to post but Terry said it so well I had to give him a +1. I am from CT, which is no where near LA
wink.gif


As to locking this thread, we have gotten mod alerts but haven't felt the need as anyone who has common sense can read through all the posts and come out with the logical conclusion about this thread.
 
#125
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

It's not like they told you fuck off when you told them there was problem. They immediately told you to send it in and they would fix it. What more do you want from them, shit happens and people make mistakes, pretty sure there isn't a company out there that hasn't had a single returned item.
 
#127
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Posting the issues I had with my custom 1911 without mention a vendor is the biggest bunch of BULLSHIT to date on this thread. Seriously Terry?

First the defense of a vendor that delivered a way substandard product, not

1 issue, not
2 issues, not
3 issues but FOUR issues!

Playing it off with a shrug of the shoulder and saying "It happens"

Secondly. The all out assault on how you feel I should have kept my mouth shut.



and now, it's OK to post what I did and there was nothing wrong with it as long as I don't mention a vendors name.


What a circus act.
 
#128
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Total Wreck" i think most would think is pretty crappy!</div></div>

Read through the posts and review the 4 issues at hand with the 1911, then you tell me a proper thread line topic for the total wreck I experience with my new hotrod custom 1911 from a company that several have repeated in this thread to have been in business for 50+ years. Really? How long has the 1911 been the same platform , same concept. Really? I was not pleased, I posted my opinion of the product I received. The handgun will be made right. But it what change how I feel about it, what I felt the first day I shot it or the fact I am free to post my experiences in a open forum.
 
#129
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

You could have talked with them first, NOT plastered it on here before giving them a chance.

The way you worded it = WRONG. IMO.

Maybe you should take Caseys advise and calm down a little.
 
#130
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

So when you make a mistake at work does your boss put out a company wide notice that despite paying you good money you can't get the job done correctly the first time?
 
#131
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Matt, believe me, I am the last one you want to elaborate on processes, etc. Even after 24 years in the shop, I am still screwing up and learning in the process.

I have certainly dropped the ball a few times over the years. Some of them, stupid little bone headed things that were easy to fix but I missed while trying to meet a deadline or cover other aspects of the project. Even today the only promise I will make to a prospective customer is that I will make every effort to deliver the product to their satisfaction.

I understand about price versus expectations and understand that my customers work hard for their money. I understand that an agency will have few opportunities to purchase equipment and if what I supply does not meet their expectations, I can kiss any future business goodbye.

I worry about my business in the middle of the night. I try not to take anything for granted and always strive to improve my product. One thing is for certain, I can fail and will continue to fail on occaision. My goal is to make sure those occaisions are few and that my customer gets satisfaction in the end.

I appreciate your comments but I am not above the fray.

The markets are competitive enough that any business not delivering good service and product will be short lived.
 
#133
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Smack, shit happens. You happened to be one of the unlucky ones. No one seems to doubt your pistol will be fixed. Clark is obviously respected by people that know the business. Why are you still whining like a bitch? Grow the F up and deal with it.
 
#134
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smack, shit happens. You happened to be one of the unlucky ones. No one seems to doubt your pistol will be fixed. Clark is obviously respected by people that know the business. Why are you still whining like a bitch? Grow the F up and deal with it. </div></div>

This should have been the first post after the OP, and end of thread.
 
#135
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

I don't blame the OP about being pissed. Hell, I get upset when my 2.99 burrito from Taco Bell has beans on it. I imagine a few thousand dollars would amplify that feeling.

However I also believe in allowing the parent company the first opportunity to correct a wrong. I'm not excusing their workmanship, craft, or lack of attention to detail. I'm just saying that it would've been best to let Clark Custom know your feelings first (I know they were closed) so that they would have had an opportunity to fix the problems before this public forum.

Personally I would've called CC up and told them the issues you encountered. I won't lie, my voice probably would be raised a bit doing this. Then I would inform them of a thread like this to merely document the issues and track CC's response. I believe this would be the most effective way to get any issues resolved as its an incentive for CC to demonstrate their commitment to excellence and customer service.

If I ever have any issues with my Windrunner, AR, or any gunsmith, I will give them that opportunity. I hope all who read this do too.
 
#136
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

I have many times purchased reasonably expensive goods that were more flawed than they should have been. And I, too, have been upset to receive a custom 1911 that was shipped with sight and sighting issues (but never from Jim Sr. or Jim Jr.). None of it is ever a good feeling. But each time it happened I had to count myself as one lucky enough in life to have such trivial problems get me so upset.

Meanwhile, has anyone else noticed that it's almost impossible to argue with Terry Cross without saying more about yourself than about Terry?

'figure I'll give it a try, though:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Netranger, your analogy is about as clear as a Vincent van Gogh painting.</div></div>Van Gogh turned to abstractionism in despairing denial of the technical perfection of new images available on film. Unlike his impressionist peers, Van Gogh's power lay more in his mysticism than in the quality of his craftsmanship. Hope that explains it for you, Terry.
laugh.gif
 
#138
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Total Wreck" i think most would think is pretty crappy! </div></div>

Then how do you describe it?

Total wreck is what he said it is... I guess we are all changing the meaning of words, phrases and posts now? how pathetic.

~badmojo
 
#141
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

The OP has every right to be upset. I know I would have been upset, more accurately, I would have been livid at first. That is a lot of money, that pistol does not function with the quality it looks to have. BUT...as many have stated here already, the "post first, contact after" approach doesn't give the audience you have gained a positive outlook of your maturity. I have seen numerous posts over the years where many reputable smiths have made mistakes, and were MF'ed by the customer. When the customer said he sent it off to the smith AFTER the post, they are rarely heard from again on the subject since the issue was properly handled, albeit the 2nd time around, and the weapon was now to their expectations.

A personal experience of mine was a stock maker that told me 6 weeks for a stock turned into 3 months. But I didn't vent my frustrations, and I got what I was expecting. It just wasn't when I expected it. If there is one thing this post IS lacking, is anyone else with a similar experience regarding this particular smith. That is an indicator that your experience is most likely an isolated incident, and I don't think anyone here feels that they will not have the issue properly addressed. While I probably have the same expectations as you do, first and foremost, I also expect that a buisnessman has the integrity to own up to and fix his mistakes. That is something you demonstrated you do not have.

I am really curious, what kind of a reponse did you expect from your post? Did you expect the like minded to join in with the pitchforks and torches and plot to burn the buisness to the ground? I did not read one post disagreeing with you that you did not get what you paid for. But anyone who questioned the tone you set got slammed with childish, and rude remarks. You immaturely insulted a very well respected member of this forum, who has made signifigant contributions to this board, specificly in the gunsmithing section. His first post pointed out, what many others have, that had you contacted them first, this post would be the waste of bandwidth it is now.

You have done nothing to sway my opinion on Clark, or WNRoscoe, because if they are willing to back their work, make an apology, and own up to their mistakes, then they have the integrity to earn me as a customer. If they were to do anything in the opposite direction of that, I would have a very diffrent opinion.
 
#142
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matt, believe me, I am the last one you want to elaborate on processes, etc. Even after 24 years in the shop, I am still screwing up and learning in the process.

I have certainly dropped the ball a few times over the years. Some of them, stupid little bone headed things that were easy to fix but I missed while trying to meet a deadline or cover other aspects of the project. Even today the only promise I will make to a prospective customer is that I will make every effort to deliver the product to their satisfaction.

I understand about price versus expectations and understand that my customers work hard for their money. I understand that an agency will have few opportunities to purchase equipment and if what I supply does not meet their expectations, I can kiss any future business goodbye.

I worry about my business in the middle of the night. I try not to take anything for granted and always strive to improve my product. One thing is for certain, I can fail and will continue to fail on occaision. My goal is to make sure those occaisions are few and that my customer gets satisfaction in the end.

I appreciate your comments but I am not above the fray.

The markets are competitive enough that any business not delivering good service and product will be short lived. </div></div>

Very well said.

I'd love to write some sub-standard code that accidentally deleted billions of my customers network security events and then just be able to say 'ship it back'. -- and on top of that, have a bunch of cronies jump on a forum and tell my customer to keep his mouth shut because 'that is not fair!'.

We live in a real-time world, the ol' days of hiding your mistakes behind 'loyalty' and a handshake are gone. And the lessons learned from making mistakes only make your products better.

I guess the big misunderstanding here (with all of you bleeding hearts) is that if this was some guy at the end of the road working out of his garage that's one thing. When it is a professional business that prides itself on being the best, they don't play by the same rules or heck, why would you even goto them in the first place. The guy in the garage could probably get it right after a couple tries too.

~badmojo
 
#143
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

No one told him to hide this, there is no evidence that a conspiriacy exists to cover it up. How do you think this would have played out if he didn't post about this until after the mistakes are fixed. I guess that if he had his pistol sent back to him, and it not only met, but exceeded his expectations, do you think this post would even exist? I guess that owuld make him a co-conspirator.
 
#144
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one told him to hide this, there is no evidence that a conspiriacy exists to cover it up. How do you think this would have played out if he didn't post about this until after the mistakes are fixed. I guess that if he had his pistol sent back to him, and it not only met, but exceeded his expectations, do you think this post would even exist? I guess that owuld make him a co-conspirator.</div></div>

Rabble....
 
#145
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

Mistakes are made....doesnt matter what company you are dealing with. What sets a good company apart from a bad one is how it is handled.

That being said, its bad form as a gentleman coming on a forum and bashing a company without at least giving them an opportunity to fix it first. If you tried and they blew you off, fixed it for shit, gave you attitude about it.....then you blast them.

I recently placed a fairly large ammo order with a vendor on this site. They didnt get the ammo in time for the match I was trying to compete in. They were having problems getting components. They almost screwed me on a match I needed the ammo for.

I called them, spoke to them about the problem and they replied with a remedy that worked out great.They also threw in some extra ammo for my troubles.

How could any sane person be pissed over that. This company would get my business again anytime.

I guess dealing with unreasonable people, like the OP, is the cost of doing business.
 
#147
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one told him to hide this, there is no evidence that a conspiriacy exists to cover it up. How do you think this would have played out if he didn't post about this until after the mistakes are fixed. I guess that if he had his pistol sent back to him, and it not only met, but exceeded his expectations, do you think this post would even exist? I guess that owuld make him a co-conspirator. </div></div>

heh... that is precisely the point. All of you are throwing fits that he posted his experience and opinion on a well known, quality custom shop and apparently family friend of many hide members.

Of course nobody 'told' him to keep it quiet, but crucifying him for not doing so equates to the same thing.

Keeping it quiet, and letting them fix the problem is EXACTLY what they want. It's not about respect. THIS IS A BUSINESS!

Like I said in an earlier post, the more you all sit back and attack the customer for paying for and getting a 'total wreck', this just keeps creating more and more Google food.

~badmojo
 
#148
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....


Ready? I'm about to blow your mind!

This self-righteous preaching about second chances and opportunities to fix things. Was that extended to SMACK? How many of you PM'd him about your frustrations with his post and offered him up an opportunity to resolve them before you resulted in trashing, bashing and attacking him?

"Hey, your wife cheated on you!" -- "it's okay, I talked to the guy. Gave him an opportunity to straighten things out. If he doesn't then I'll jump on the hide and post my dissatisfaction. You know, just trying to be a gentleman."

LOL

What a bunch of monkeys.

~badmojo
 
#150
Re: Total Wreck! Clark Custom....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Badmojo you don't like it here feel free to leave.</div></div>

Now we start censoring those that reply, that are not in your line of thought???? WTF?
 
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