Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
That pretty much sums it up.
Take a look at vortex and premier too.
That pretty much sums it up.
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Rifle Scopes Totally disgusted with Leupold
- Thread starter Terry Cross
- Start date
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
Yeah. That Viper PST looks really good on paper! Can't wait to see how it holds up under working conditions.
Yeah. That Viper PST looks really good on paper! Can't wait to see how it holds up under working conditions.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please, guys in the military make due with what they are issued...call Canada and ask what their Tier 1 guys use... ? I'll give this hint, it doesn't start with L.</div></div>The guys issued with a Leupold try their best to obtain and carry a spare one in their pack. And I've never seen a Canadian with a Leupold; not that they don't have them, mind you, just that I've never seen it - then or now.
That said, I was recently speaking with a local LE precision shooter who couldn't figure out why his Leupold topped-out in elevation at just under his 500m dope while his spotter's rifle kept cranking. 'cause it's busted, I said. Turns out it was.
I own no more Leupolds. Not that there aren't a few good ones out there. But I don't have any, any more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please, guys in the military make due with what they are issued...call Canada and ask what their Tier 1 guys use... ? I'll give this hint, it doesn't start with L.</div></div>The guys issued with a Leupold try their best to obtain and carry a spare one in their pack. And I've never seen a Canadian with a Leupold; not that they don't have them, mind you, just that I've never seen it - then or now.
That said, I was recently speaking with a local LE precision shooter who couldn't figure out why his Leupold topped-out in elevation at just under his 500m dope while his spotter's rifle kept cranking. 'cause it's busted, I said. Turns out it was.
I own no more Leupolds. Not that there aren't a few good ones out there. But I don't have any, any more.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I like all the Leupolds I have and have never had a problem with mine. I've sent several back for reticle changes and/or turret changes and service has always been good. I had or have everything from Vari-XIIc's to VX-III's to MKIV's and have been pleased with all of them. From friction adjustments to M1 adjustments, all have tracked well. I don't care much yet about mil adjustments, although they may become more important to me as time goes on. But for now, I like my TMR reticles and M1 adjustments. I may look for "Made in USA" on the boxes or scopes now when I'm looking at buying a used one. Other than that, I don't think my habits will change much as far as rifle scopes.
I guess I must state that my life is not dependent on my scopes. If it were, I would surely buy the best.
I like all the Leupolds I have and have never had a problem with mine. I've sent several back for reticle changes and/or turret changes and service has always been good. I had or have everything from Vari-XIIc's to VX-III's to MKIV's and have been pleased with all of them. From friction adjustments to M1 adjustments, all have tracked well. I don't care much yet about mil adjustments, although they may become more important to me as time goes on. But for now, I like my TMR reticles and M1 adjustments. I may look for "Made in USA" on the boxes or scopes now when I'm looking at buying a used one. Other than that, I don't think my habits will change much as far as rifle scopes.
I guess I must state that my life is not dependent on my scopes. If it were, I would surely buy the best.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I see active military guys almost every week, they are very cut and dry on the subject, it either works or it doesn't and they don't spend their days contemplating the differences between S&B, NF and Leupold, they are more concerned with which brand of beer to buy, who is playing in the Super Bowl and which bar has the hottest waitresses and the best buffet. Scopes are so far down the list --- its the guys NOT in that unit that are worried about it, because they don't know better.
You may "sell them" but we "use" them, there is a distinct difference between owning and using, selling and seeing the end results are two different things. </div></div>
fwiw,
I could not agree more...
I know more than a couple higher speed folks who could not care less just as long as it works. Whether it's built by German Optical Elfs and costs 10K or whether it's modified with spit, bailing wire, and 200 mph tape the key is if it works... When we are drinking beer and eating seaside oysters off the grate rarely do weapons conversations rear their head.
A few of the guys from 2 and DG are really sharp sticks when it comes to this stuff but it rarely seems a point of personal interest. It is a tool for the job. I can't help but ask what is working and what is not, however, that is usually the only way it becomes a topic of conversation...
fwiw & imho.
Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I see active military guys almost every week, they are very cut and dry on the subject, it either works or it doesn't and they don't spend their days contemplating the differences between S&B, NF and Leupold, they are more concerned with which brand of beer to buy, who is playing in the Super Bowl and which bar has the hottest waitresses and the best buffet. Scopes are so far down the list --- its the guys NOT in that unit that are worried about it, because they don't know better.
You may "sell them" but we "use" them, there is a distinct difference between owning and using, selling and seeing the end results are two different things. </div></div>
fwiw,
I could not agree more...
I know more than a couple higher speed folks who could not care less just as long as it works. Whether it's built by German Optical Elfs and costs 10K or whether it's modified with spit, bailing wire, and 200 mph tape the key is if it works... When we are drinking beer and eating seaside oysters off the grate rarely do weapons conversations rear their head.
A few of the guys from 2 and DG are really sharp sticks when it comes to this stuff but it rarely seems a point of personal interest. It is a tool for the job. I can't help but ask what is working and what is not, however, that is usually the only way it becomes a topic of conversation...
fwiw & imho.
Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I just knew I shouldn't of started reading this post. Just received my new Leupold Mk 4 this week and I haven't even opened the box yet. After reading this post I'm not sure I want to take the chance of having it fail on me like some of the experiences here.
I have two Leupold Var-X IIIs. One of which is on my Serbu 50 BMG rifle that I've put well over 500 rnds through her. The Leupold on it has been rock solid and zero hasn't wavered once. I looked at NF as well, but went with the Mk 4 because of my experience with the Var-X models. Guess I should of done a little more research first.
So the question I have to figure out now is whether I mount it and see if I got one of the good ones or send it back and get a NF.
I just knew I shouldn't of started reading this post. Just received my new Leupold Mk 4 this week and I haven't even opened the box yet. After reading this post I'm not sure I want to take the chance of having it fail on me like some of the experiences here.
I have two Leupold Var-X IIIs. One of which is on my Serbu 50 BMG rifle that I've put well over 500 rnds through her. The Leupold on it has been rock solid and zero hasn't wavered once. I looked at NF as well, but went with the Mk 4 because of my experience with the Var-X models. Guess I should of done a little more research first.
So the question I have to figure out now is whether I mount it and see if I got one of the good ones or send it back and get a NF.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
Frank and Terry
thank you for the replies
certainly no hard feelings over an optic !
and your points are well made and hear what your saying
however, i have been under the impression that when Frank mentions optics represented in a typical RO class, its normally 65-75% Leupolds, with a few each, of other brands ?
is this incorrect ?
it's what i have normally seen - but you all are seeing way more classes, competitions, groups of shooters, than i am
and really part of my dismay/frustation is that while we all
admit, other brands break, albeit not with the same frequency as Leupold,
there is NOT a thread on those brands . . . and their 'issues'
like the IOR , the Premier , the USO , etc.,
I totally agree , SOMETHING, seems to be wrong in Oregon . . .
with Leupold creating a dedicated tactical division, maybe there will be some open ears there ?
I highly respect both of you and am not challenging your statements , but hoping to add to the discussion , on what once was America's leading optic manufacturer .
thank you again , hope all is well with both of you !
Frank and Terry
thank you for the replies
certainly no hard feelings over an optic !
and your points are well made and hear what your saying
however, i have been under the impression that when Frank mentions optics represented in a typical RO class, its normally 65-75% Leupolds, with a few each, of other brands ?
is this incorrect ?
it's what i have normally seen - but you all are seeing way more classes, competitions, groups of shooters, than i am
and really part of my dismay/frustation is that while we all
admit, other brands break, albeit not with the same frequency as Leupold,
there is NOT a thread on those brands . . . and their 'issues'
like the IOR , the Premier , the USO , etc.,
I totally agree , SOMETHING, seems to be wrong in Oregon . . .
with Leupold creating a dedicated tactical division, maybe there will be some open ears there ?
I highly respect both of you and am not challenging your statements , but hoping to add to the discussion , on what once was America's leading optic manufacturer .
thank you again , hope all is well with both of you !
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I had the opportunity to compare a high-end Leupold vs. a $300 Konus M-30 and guess what, the glass was notably better on the Konus M-30!
If you're going to get Chinese stuff, it makes sense to only pay Chinese prices. And, Konus support is very good if you ever have an issue.
FWIW...
I had the opportunity to compare a high-end Leupold vs. a $300 Konus M-30 and guess what, the glass was notably better on the Konus M-30!
If you're going to get Chinese stuff, it makes sense to only pay Chinese prices. And, Konus support is very good if you ever have an issue.
FWIW...
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
When my family's company was being formed, the President and VP (my stepfather and mom) and the Board decided to reduce expenses, so they outsourced manufacturing to China and saved $1M per year. The product finally reached fruition last year in the US. Come to find out, the factory that made the product started selling the specs of the product on the side and sold it to other vendors, who were making and selling them as their own product in Asia. My family's company became victim of the usual Chinese copy ripoff that occurs to everyone that manufactures in China. Now there are Chinese knock-offs reaching the US.
The sad part is that I warned them that this would happen, and now they're reaping the shitstorm. US patent laws mean nothing in China.
This is why Leupold had to put out that advisory about Chinese knockoffs of the Mark 4. They were outsourcing to China and it bit them in ass. It ALWAYS happens, but people just don't learn.
When my family's company was being formed, the President and VP (my stepfather and mom) and the Board decided to reduce expenses, so they outsourced manufacturing to China and saved $1M per year. The product finally reached fruition last year in the US. Come to find out, the factory that made the product started selling the specs of the product on the side and sold it to other vendors, who were making and selling them as their own product in Asia. My family's company became victim of the usual Chinese copy ripoff that occurs to everyone that manufactures in China. Now there are Chinese knock-offs reaching the US.
The sad part is that I warned them that this would happen, and now they're reaping the shitstorm. US patent laws mean nothing in China.
This is why Leupold had to put out that advisory about Chinese knockoffs of the Mark 4. They were outsourcing to China and it bit them in ass. It ALWAYS happens, but people just don't learn.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
this thread reminds me of a time long ago when i learned that the M16A2 was not the end all be all of weapons
I felt one part naive, one part betrayed, and two parts hungry for knowlegde
I have shot Leupold (m24, my personal R700, and AR-10(may it burn in hell)) for a long time
I have never had any issues with them...no loss of zero...no turrets break (even after jumping it...i really thought i was gonna fuck my gun up...but it was fine) ...but like the Kimber I should never have sold off...did i get ones when they were still on top of their game?
this is almost degrading into the glock vs sig vs HK arguments i hear regularly
I want what works and will not break....i'll give up sexy and cool features for rock solid reliability...so it seems that i MIGHT hold on buying any NEW Leupolds ... but the jury is out
I do like the NF on my mk13....but i am a huge fan of horus reticules...now if NF would make it a factory option....i'd spend my own money on them
but not unlike the pistol arguments... I always say... use what works for you...because you have make the shot
i respect the opinions of other...i hear you... but i need evidence.... irrefutable.... before i swear leupold off
i have used them in combat, jumped them, and have won many a beer with one on my gun
but i am never brand loyal...i am performance loyal..it's all i care about
this thread reminds me of a time long ago when i learned that the M16A2 was not the end all be all of weapons
I felt one part naive, one part betrayed, and two parts hungry for knowlegde
I have shot Leupold (m24, my personal R700, and AR-10(may it burn in hell)) for a long time
I have never had any issues with them...no loss of zero...no turrets break (even after jumping it...i really thought i was gonna fuck my gun up...but it was fine) ...but like the Kimber I should never have sold off...did i get ones when they were still on top of their game?
this is almost degrading into the glock vs sig vs HK arguments i hear regularly
I want what works and will not break....i'll give up sexy and cool features for rock solid reliability...so it seems that i MIGHT hold on buying any NEW Leupolds ... but the jury is out
I do like the NF on my mk13....but i am a huge fan of horus reticules...now if NF would make it a factory option....i'd spend my own money on them
but not unlike the pistol arguments... I always say... use what works for you...because you have make the shot
i respect the opinions of other...i hear you... but i need evidence.... irrefutable.... before i swear leupold off
i have used them in combat, jumped them, and have won many a beer with one on my gun
but i am never brand loyal...i am performance loyal..it's all i care about
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I think there are two arguments going here, and that it really depends on where your position is. The arguments are just being fed-up with outsourcing in general, and being annoyed by Leupold for outsourcing and possibly not making as great of a product.
My stance is that I'm just fed-up with outsourcing in general. Like you sort of pointed out, klrb929, I still have faith in Leupold to make a good product, and the Leups I have, I love. I will probably never get rid of them. Never a single problem with them. But, as I see better products hit the market for less money, I realize that I have probably bought my last Leupold scope. Except the DeltaPoint. That thing looks really cool and is what I've been waiting for.
Just my $0.02 though.
I think there are two arguments going here, and that it really depends on where your position is. The arguments are just being fed-up with outsourcing in general, and being annoyed by Leupold for outsourcing and possibly not making as great of a product.
My stance is that I'm just fed-up with outsourcing in general. Like you sort of pointed out, klrb929, I still have faith in Leupold to make a good product, and the Leups I have, I love. I will probably never get rid of them. Never a single problem with them. But, as I see better products hit the market for less money, I realize that I have probably bought my last Leupold scope. Except the DeltaPoint. That thing looks really cool and is what I've been waiting for.
Just my $0.02 though.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
it's sad whats happened to this company. in every category there is always a scope that is better than leupolds offering, often for less. i could talk about it all day but it would only make me unproductive and sad
it's sad whats happened to this company. in every category there is always a scope that is better than leupolds offering, often for less. i could talk about it all day but it would only make me unproductive and sad
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I also bought a leupold 15-45x60 Sequoia spotter (Made in Korea). What a peice of shyte. It would not resolve .22 caliber holes @ 100 yards. In addition the reticle would constantly vibrate. I sent it back to Leupold. They notified me the scope was defective and offered me an exchage or $30 to upgrade to a 15-30x60 Gold Ring Spotter. I paid the $30 and got the Gold Ring. It is a decent spotter but not any better than my brothers 15-45x50 Bushnell spacemaster which cost half as much.
Thanks to all of the posts concerning the Mk 4 Leupolds, after owning 2 6'5-20 Vari-x III efr's for 10 years, I decided to go with a NF NXS 8-32x56 scope. Couldn't be happier
I also bought a leupold 15-45x60 Sequoia spotter (Made in Korea). What a peice of shyte. It would not resolve .22 caliber holes @ 100 yards. In addition the reticle would constantly vibrate. I sent it back to Leupold. They notified me the scope was defective and offered me an exchage or $30 to upgrade to a 15-30x60 Gold Ring Spotter. I paid the $30 and got the Gold Ring. It is a decent spotter but not any better than my brothers 15-45x50 Bushnell spacemaster which cost half as much.
Thanks to all of the posts concerning the Mk 4 Leupolds, after owning 2 6'5-20 Vari-x III efr's for 10 years, I decided to go with a NF NXS 8-32x56 scope. Couldn't be happier
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
Ironically, I feel that the current Leupold Tactical Divsion products are better than the past.
The 1.1-8x CQBSS is the cutting edge of the 1-8x sight, leaving S&B, PR and others in the dust. When using NV the glass quality rivals or exceeds S&B.
The upcoming 3-18x looks very promising, and some other items are impressive as well.
Ironically, I feel that the current Leupold Tactical Divsion products are better than the past.
The 1.1-8x CQBSS is the cutting edge of the 1-8x sight, leaving S&B, PR and others in the dust. When using NV the glass quality rivals or exceeds S&B.
The upcoming 3-18x looks very promising, and some other items are impressive as well.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
Kevin, if you like the new Leupys, great.
I think Terry's points are dead on target.
I also hope that everyone in this country wakes up (maybe it's finally happening now?) and realizes that we need to shut off the flow of crap coming from China (and a few other places).
Looks like a good place for some restrictive tariffs that will punish the profiteers that moved their production offshore.
Just got another USO scope, and will need more soon.
No more Leupys.
Kevin, if you like the new Leupys, great.
I think Terry's points are dead on target.
I also hope that everyone in this country wakes up (maybe it's finally happening now?) and realizes that we need to shut off the flow of crap coming from China (and a few other places).
Looks like a good place for some restrictive tariffs that will punish the profiteers that moved their production offshore.
Just got another USO scope, and will need more soon.
No more Leupys.
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold
I was curious too about Loopy quality but am also wondering....has anyone ever taken apart or cut open a new model mark 4 and looked inside to see what components and / or quality they are of? Seems to me that anyone familiar with a quality optic should be able to tell us what's really going on here.Don't ask me to do it 'cuz I can't afford to nor would I know what I'm looking at.
I was curious too about Loopy quality but am also wondering....has anyone ever taken apart or cut open a new model mark 4 and looked inside to see what components and / or quality they are of? Seems to me that anyone familiar with a quality optic should be able to tell us what's really going on here.Don't ask me to do it 'cuz I can't afford to nor would I know what I'm looking at.
Mk 5 has been good for people, less complaints
- Nov 3, 2010
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He really thought about the question before he asked it out loud. Good stuff doesn’t come out quick
Post a duplicate thread, you get clowned to use the search function.
Use the search function, you get clowned for necroposting.
Internet forum Kobyashi Maru LOL
Use the search function, you get clowned for necroposting.
Internet forum Kobyashi Maru LOL
haha i read all the way through to the 2nd page before seeing tWo tHoUSaNd Ei8Ht
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