Trainers? I'm Clueless

[Shanerbanner10]

Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a .22 lr as a trainer. I am really just looking for the basics right now, a bolt action .22 for a really good price and by really good price I mean cheap. I plan to build the rifle as I go but would just like a much cheaper alternative than what I am shooting at the moment.
So my question is: What rifle would be a good place to start?

Rifle: ?
Barrel: ? Does it need to be changed to get good accuracy?
Trigger: ?
Stock: something from stockys- Suggestions?
Optics: Bushnell 3.5-21x50
Rings: American Defense QD-Low
Base: ?
Bipod- Harris

 

[cole454]

Rifle: Savage Mark II FV-SR $250
Barrel: N/A
Trigger: Stock Accu-Trigger
Stock: Boyd's Tacticool $100 + DIP Bottom Metal $46
Optics: BSA 4-14 FFP $250
Rings: SWFA SS rings $40
Base: DIP 25 MOA $40
Bipod- Harris clone with Podlock $60

Total = $786

 

[Defusion]

cz455 varmint, of if thats too much, the above.
I know with the CZ you can swap the barrel to a lilja later on. Personally, I don't plan on upgrading mine, but selling it for an annie when funds permit.

 

[thrusty]

CZ 455 tacticool or the CZ 455 precision trainer FTW. Whatever your wallet can afford - If you want to trick it out and also put a Lilja barrel on it, have at it.

CZ-USA -> CZ 455 Varmint Tacticool
CZ-USA -> CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer

 

[CMH]

Depends on what you are trying to get out of your trainer, but you should be budgeting for ammo as well. Even with a good rifle it is difficult to get consistent results from bulk pack ammo. Wolf Match Target 22 is a good happy medium that shoots well in most rifles and has a level of consistency that is well above bulk pack 22.

 

[cole454]

Depends on what you are trying to get out of your trainer, but you should be budgeting for ammo as well. Even with a good rifle it is difficult to get consistent results from bulk pack ammo. Wolf Match Target 22 is a good happy medium that shoots well in most rifles and has a level of consistency that is well above bulk pack 22.

+1 on ammo

I've found CCI 40 gr Standard Velocity shoot pretty well out of a lot of different .22s. If only I could find more.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I currently shoot a full custom .308 in a mcrees. It's a 3/8 gun for sure. I guess it's time to just bear down and educate myself about this ringside world. 2$ a round for .308 is ridiculous although I did get to 1012 this weekend!

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I've got the scope, rings, bipod covered. So far a savage mk2 and cz455 have been suggested. Anything else?

 

[armorpl8chikn]

There isn't anything any cheaper than a Savage, both figuratively and literally. DO NOT expect ANYTHING close to centerfire performance out of a cheap 22 rifle. Don't expect to win many matches. DON"T spend more than $100 to spruce it up, you will not get that money back. A cheap rifle will give you trigger time and as long as you keep realistic goals.

 

[Defusion]

I have no experience with the savage, but agree with the sentiment of above post.
A CZ might be worth upgrading though, since there is a nice manners stock for it, and you can get a good barrel (or you might get lucky with the factory barrel).
But I'd probably look into selling it for something more high-end rather then upgrading. But then I'm the guy that simply skipped the rem700 and saved up another 6-8 months for an AI AE, knowing I'd end up spending about the same amount of money anyway while still owning just another remington 700 (no disrespect to either upgraded rem700 or cz455 owners).

 

[yoteman]

banner10 just what do you want n a trainer, trigger time, top notch performance, are both.
as stated above by my ol bud chikin, a savage will get you good trigger time, around $450.00 less optics & rings
thats about as far as you can go with a savage,still not top notch in acc dept. no disrespect to all savage shooters
i have had one, a great starter rig.

CZ455 $899.99 with manners stock less optics, rings, base,Lilja barrel $404.00 shipped, trigger $75.00, grand total $1379.00
still no optic are rings&base. great performance, still not top notch.but better.

now like already has been said, got to have best ammo, you can get your hands on, to bring out the best in any rimfire.
only you know what your pocket book will stand, good luck, lets us know which way you go,

cz 455 boyds tacticool stock around $500.00, no optic ring&base.or trigger.

others Sako,annie mpr 64, 40x all not cheap but top teir,

marlin,ruger,savage, cheaper price,

 

[ivanthesane]

I paid 275 for a Savage BTV near new in box. $20 for rings, $100 for a Simmons WTC 6.5-20x50 w/ AO.

 

[yoteman]

I paid 275 for a Savage BTV near new in box. $20 for rings, $100 for a Simmons WTC 6.5-20x50 w/ AO.

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ivan what stock does that model have,
like i said savage great for the money. just only so far you can trick it out
my above reply was with, savage, boyds stock, DIP upgrades. $299.99 new, boyds stock $100.00
Dip upgrades $90.00 total $489.99

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Look guys. That is why I told you what I told you. Lots of guys lose track quickly when it is a dollar here and a dollar there. Yote has laid out the real world price very succinctly. Its like building a house. You figure every stick of lumber, block, yard of concrete, fixture and dingle dangle. Then you add at least 25% and as much as 50% and you will come close to what you will ACTUALLY spend. Once you get into a project there are always change orders and modifications you didn't think about. Before you know it, you have spent way past your original estimate. I know this because I have built houses and guns they do have some similarities when figuring cost estimates. No gun I ever built or modified cost what I had estimated initially. I have spent on a gun more than once and found I had spent enough beyond initial estimate to have bought a much higher grade. THAT is why I bought an Anschutz and have never been happier. I am not telling him to buy an Annie nor a CZ, now you guys know me, how strange is that. I am telling him the Savage fits his budget with a large BUT thrown in for good measure. Don't buy a Savage and dump a ton of money in it, looking for performance beyond its capabilities. I have said this enough and will continue to repeat it: Don't buy a lower grade gun and try to make it an Olympic grade shooter, that is insane, and you won't accomplish your goal. I don't say this to hear from all the budget rifle owners to dogpile on here and tell me about how they accomplished that feat. I have heard about it but never seen it. There are day that a Savage will beat an Annie, a 40X, Vostok, Ismash, etc, yada yada. That doesn't make them magical. That means that teh right shooter was there at the right time, I have seen it and experienced it. Day in and day out there is nothing you can do to make a $250 Savage consistently shoot in the same league with a $1200 German rifle. Any money spent trying to achieve that goal is ultimately wasted. That doesn't mean that spending a little money isn't a good thing, that means spending 2/3 the price of an Annie on a Savage is ludicrous.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Hey guys, first of all thanks for all the responses, I really appreciate it. I am not looking to spend 1000$ on this 'build', I really just want something I can get behind that has a decent but crisp trigger that will shoot fairly accurate for a much cheaper price than the .30 cals. When I stated trainer, I did not mean a replica of my long gun; I do however want something with a feasible price yet pretty accurate and right now that Savage is looking pretty good. I would preferably like to spend 200-250 on the rifle its self, and spend 100$ or so on a decent stock. That's all I really see myself putting into it as long as it will shoot pretty well. The idea behind this is more focusing on fundamentals. Being square behind the gun, trigger pull, etc. Can I do this dry firing? I sure can but wheres the fun in not seeing results downrange?

When it comes to the aftermarket part of all this I really don't know much of anything about the rimfire world, whereas the centerfire (.30 cal) I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable. I feel getting a .22lr trainer will help me not only with my fundamentals but also my wind calls, calling shots, and a few other things.

I am a broke 'just got out of the Navy now college kid' (hence why I rarely get to shoot) so affordable is a must. Once I am actually earning some income I shall look at investing in a 'real' trainer.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Not sure many of us have a "real" trainer little brother. I think Rico and maybe DFoo have one. I know mine is as close as I could get, but still keeping in mind that accuracy was first. I don't give a damn if you "train" with a Marlin model 60, it should eventually make you a better shooter, unless you are playing mall ninja. Having a "proper trainer" is not a shortcut to mastering the "genuine big boy" rifle. I don't think I have ever said that your little rifle has to match your big rifle, though I do want mine to be as close to matching accuracy as possible. I do know that some of the best shots I have known and do know, got started as kids beating around hedgerows for rabbits, and pretty much anything that tastes good, with whatever 22 happen to be handy. Get what you can afford, put a scope on it, and shoot hell out of it as much as possible. It will not be wasted effort. So you don't have what the cool kids have on teh Hide, so what.
Get one in steel, get one quick, and shoot with purpose. Even if it isn't perfect. Just make sure you don't brake the bank, and never let "coolnes" and especially "tacticoolness" enter into the equation. When you get your degree and strat making the big eagle, then you can concentrate on cool.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Cool is the last thing on my list. I could careless if its cool. I was practicality. Something that fits (to some extent) all my criteria: price, accuracy, and something that will allow me to shoot a lot more often. Field of dreams said 'built it and they will come' I'm over here saying 'wait for it... Waittttt for it..... And it will come!"

 

[Redmanss]

If your intended focus is on the fundamentals of marksmanship on a budget and not so much to replicating the centerfire, then make your way over here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ifier-alternative-ammo-availability-cost.html

 

[ZombieSlayer]

like i said savage great for the money. just only so far you can trick it out

I dunno about that. Mine's tricked out pretty well. And it's definitely a shooter.

Cool is the last thing on my list. I could careless if its cool. I was practicality. Something that fits (to some extent) all my criteria: price, accuracy, and something that will allow me to shoot a lot more often. Field of dreams said 'built it and they will come' I'm over here saying 'wait for it... Waittttt for it..... And it will come!"

I'd say its cool even tho that's not one of your requirements. And more so now its got a better cheek piece in a grippy Viperskins one. Its definitely practical. Assuming your sig pic is your 308 so a pistol grip stock would be closest youd get if your looking for something similar. Can be made to fit almost anyone with different grip sizes and recoil pad spacers. Relatively easy to make if you have a buddy that can weld ally. Depends how far you want to go with a trainer 'build'

Might be pushing the budget but a PWS straight pull could also be an option. Factory stocks aren't bad and the option of kitting it up with some 'tacticool' 1022 gear is always there. But they get bloody heavy with the full kit on them.

Costing of mine. Keep in mind this is in Australia. The land of bend over and take it or give us your kidneys for anything gun related.

$810 - rifle cost.

$1300 - with optics.

Not included in this cost, machining and fabrication of chassis, cerakote, threading muzzle, fitting tube, probably some other things I've forgotten.

 

[RicosRevenge]

... its got a better cheek piece in a grippy Viperskins one. Its definitely practical. Assuming your sig pic is your 308 so a pistol grip stock would be closest youd get if your looking for something similar. Can be made to fit almost anyone with different grip sizes and recoil pad spacers. Relatively easy to make if you have a buddy that can weld ally. Depends how far you want to go with a trainer 'build'

Paraphrased, but I agree with ZS 100%. If you are truly looking for a "trainer" then you need to have the ability to at least mimic the positioning of your "big boy." This means a pistol grip stock. Why is this important to me? Muscle memory.

A good way to describe it is to have a .45 shooter switch to a Glock or vice versa. The natural position of the .45 shooter will make the Glock point skyward because of the different grip angle.

I do not discount the trigger time and rounds down range for "training..." but, it is different positioning. This is why I shoot a 40XB in an AICS that mimics my 700 in an AICS. Obviously, based on your comments; you are not willing to plunk down the cash for a 40XB (700 footprint) and a second McCree... so (IMO) you need to search out a stock that will at least give you similar mechanics with whatever choice you make for a rifle.

Enjoy this time... I know it can feel frustrating. I envy you in your search!

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I definitely understand muscle memory, position (hands on the rifle and body behind the rifle), ect. The pistol girp is not as important as many of you guys may think since I RARELY and only on close engagements (200 and closer) will actually grip and pistol grip. The body's tacticool stock would allow me to marely mimic my natural shooting position with my McRees. This build will NOT be a dead on copy of my 'big' stick but more of a trigger time and learn more. I feel that I am already a pretty good marksman especially coming out of the military and pulling a trigger for a living for a couple years. There were many things that I shall hold onto from the military and many things I quickly forgot by choice when it came to precision shooting in the military. This trainer is going to keep my honest with my markmenship skills/fundamentals.

I did find an interesting wooden aics for a Savage Mk2 that was only 140$. Anyone have any experience with those?

 

[Pat M]

Glenfield - $90
tasco 3x9 mildot - $50
rings - $20
rice/sock - $1

 

[Cserv]

Love my Savage, but I also know and accept it for what it is. At 50 the majority of my 5 shot group are ragged dime sized holes. And when I stretch to 200 it owns clays, most of yhe time. All with a POS Centerpoint scope and factory crap stock. Not a comp winner, but good enough for what I want it for. Improving my shooting and having fun. I run my FV with a Harris bipod, a stock pack, rear bag, and Wolf MT ammo.

Eric

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Love my Savage, but I also know and accept it for what it is. At 50 the majority of my 5 shot group are ragged dime sized holes. And when I stretch to 200 it owns clays, most of yhe time. All with a POS Centerpoint scope and factory crap stock. Not a comp winner, but good enough for what I want it for. Improving my shooting and having fun. I run my FV with a Harris bipod, a stock pack, rear bag, and Wolf MT ammo.

Eric

This is exactly what I am looking for, something that will print pretty good groups at 50 and still pretty accurate at 200.


I'm surprise to see no one mentioning anything about any of the Remington, marlins or a ruger 10/22....

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I would like to budget around 500$ for rifle, stock and maybe (doubtful) a barrel and/or trigger. This is a low cost budget but will get me what I need. I am not worried about ammo as rural Oklahoma Wally worlds almost always have some. I have qd mounting system on my bolt gun so I will simple just take it off and re-zero on the .22, same with bi-pod. I see no reason to spend 1k on a scope for every rifle when you can get a good qd mount and verify zero, same with bipod.

 

[RicosRevenge]

A 10/22 gives you no manipulation of the bolt handle and you wanted a "trainer." Add to that, a really great shooting 10/22 will demand more of an investment than you have mentioned.

The 2 really good quality examples that stand out in the "affordable" range for most are the CZ and the Savage which is why you'll see so many topics throughout the Rimfire board. There are several here that have had decent results with the Marlin and some of the older Remmys; but consistently, the 2 mentioned above have stood out among the others.

 

[RicosRevenge]

LMAO!! Greatness!

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Makes sense... haha thats a classic. appreciate the help all!

 

[yoteman]

LMAO!! Greatness!

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There you are, were n hell you been,

 

[RicosRevenge]

Hiding wherever possible. Lately, W. TX killing dove and pigs!

 

[yoteman]

I dunno about that. Mine's tricked out pretty well. And it's definitely a shooter.



I'd say its cool even tho that's not one of your requirements. And more so now its got a better cheek piece in a grippy Viperskins one. Its definitely practical. Assuming your sig pic is your 308 so a pistol grip stock would be closest youd get if your looking for something similar. Can be made to fit almost anyone with different grip sizes and recoil pad spacers. Relatively easy to make if you have a buddy that can weld ally. Depends how far you want to go with a trainer 'build'

Might be pushing the budget but a PWS straight pull could also be an option. Factory stocks aren't bad and the option of kitting it up with some 'tacticool' 1022 gear is always there. But they get bloody heavy with the full kit on them.

Costing of mine. Keep in mind this is in Australia. The land of bend over and take it or give us your kidneys for anything gun related.

$810 - rifle cost.

$1300 - with optics.

Not included in this cost, machining and fabrication of chassis, cerakote, threading muzzle, fitting tube, probably some other things I've forgotten.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


hey Mate. must say, i stand corrected ,that is one tricked out savage.
more info please

 

[yoteman]

Hiding wherever possible. Lately, W. TX killing dove and pigs!

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even as much as i like coyote hunting, porkey pigs, are right up there,
only i can only make it to FL.
TX pig hunt is on my bucket list.
Rico show some pic so i can dream of Tx hog hunt LOL
dont hide to much.
_____________________
OP. savage seems to be the big winner this time, keep us posted on your out come.
an a big thank you for your service in the navy

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Nope it is not a 40X that looks and feels just like my R700 custom '06. In my opinion it is close enough. The heft is similar though not nearly the same. The length is very close. The trigger is certainly not nearly the same, as I wouldn't have a big boy rifle with an 8oz trigger. Has it improved my shooting ability overall? That may be the hardest to answer as I am fairly long in the tooth and cannot attribute my skill to any one rifle by a long shot(yeah it's a shameless pun).
This rig was $800 complete with DIP 20MOA rail and an Atlas bi-pod. $56 for a 10rd mag. Mk4 rings $125. MK4 16x $750. Harris bi-pod $95, pod-loc $20, stock pack $15. Though I got a few deals and know some people in the industry that secured for me a good deal, this is how it breaks down for the responsible shopper.

$1861 turn key and ready to roll. Almost nothing this rifle will not do. Have you seen the coyote pic? (sorry had to ask) Possibly one of the most accurate 22lr models in existence. Lifetime investment. Unparalelled resale value. I can strip her down and get my money back out of her tomorrow with a long list of people who would buy it without a blink. NO, it is not nor ever will be for sale, God willing.

Not bragging. Simply showing you the possibilities of shopping smart, buying quality, and the rewards of patience. You will never get there by saving all you don't spend, you get there by spending all you don't save. In my case I had a few unproductive chickens to kill. My luxuries don't include 2 and 4 wheeled vehicles, big screen TVs, and useless fluff. I like tools, and I like them to be useful, durable, and precise. Not saying I don't have a pet chicken or two in the safe, but this isn't one. This rifle produces and is used.

Not everyone needs this much rifle, hell I probably don't. In my opinion there are plenty of guys whose skills deserve it more than mine. If you have to buy cheap then buy cheap, just don't buy cheap and keep beating it with your wallet trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
My real point. I have seen plenty of Savages and yes CZs that had more invested than the package above. In my opinion that is a tragedy.

 

[yoteman]

View attachment 16225

Nope it is not a 40X that looks and feels just like my R700 custom '06. In my opinion it is close enough. The heft is similar though not nearly the same. The length is very close. The trigger is certainly not nearly the same, as I wouldn't have a big boy rifle with an 8oz trigger. Has it improved my shooting ability overall? That may be the hardest to answer as I am fairly long in the tooth and cannot attribute my skill to any one rifle by a long shot(yeah it's a shameless pun).
This rig was $800 complete with DIP 20MOA rail and an Atlas bi-pod. $56 for a 10rd mag. Mk4 rings $125. MK4 16x $750. Harris bi-pod $95, pod-loc $20, stock pack $15. Though I got a few deals and know some people in the industry that secured for me a good deal, this is how it breaks down for the responsible shopper.

$1861 turn key and ready to roll. Almost nothing this rifle will not do. Have you seen the coyote pic? (sorry had to ask) Possibly one of the most accurate 22lr models in existence. Lifetime investment. Unparalelled resale value. I can strip her down and get my money back out of her tomorrow with a long list of people who would buy it without a blink. NO, it is not nor ever will be for sale, God willing.

Not bragging. Simply showing you the possibilities of shopping smart, buying quality, and the rewards of patience. You will never get there by saving all you don't spend, you get there by spending all you don't save. In my case I had a few unproductive chickens to kill. My luxuries don't include 2 and 4 wheeled vehicles, big screen TVs, and useless fluff. I like tools, and I like them to be useful, durable, and precise. Not saying I don't have a pet chicken or two in the safe, but this isn't one. This rifle produces and is used.

Not everyone needs this much rifle, hell I probably don't. In my opinion there are plenty of guys whose skills deserve it more than mine. If you have to buy cheap then buy cheap, just don't buy cheap and keep beating it with your wallet trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
My real point. I have seen plenty of Savages and yes CZs that had more invested than the package above. In my opinion that is a tragedy.

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Now, now JL you know i am building a cz455,manners stock,basix trigger,$400.00 aftermarket barrel. all the DIP stuff i can get,
just to beat the MPR 64,!!!!!!!! yea right
well said ol bud, we have both been down that road, with the savage,& cz, like you the annie 64 has served me well,
just look at were we are this year.
but the op said cheap, but to me an acurate rifle, is far more fun.
O by the way if shooting the 22lr, makes you a better shot with big guns, well, might be true, after seeing the fo hammer 06 shoot that group at 200yrds friday. did it last more than 4 hours LOL.

OP the savage may be what you are asking for,
as for budget an college, putting my youngest son through now, has put a dent for now in my fun money. so i know what you are talking about.
if any body has not seen are hear about the coyote,let me know, because only 2 people were there when it happened armorpl8chikin was one of them, guess who the other was.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

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after seeing the fo hammer 06 shoot that group at 200yrds friday. did it last more than 4 hours LOL.

.519" 215yds, yes it lasted more than 4 hours. I did set the target by my bed that night, the wife was happy. It is the Foe Hammer, known as Glamdring in Middle Earth, Goblins call it "Beater", of course they aren't known for flowery vocabulary. It will kill a Balrog. Though it may appear ordinary and no frills, it is no ordinary sword. Then again....it was wielded by a wizard In my case it is wielded by a dwarf.

YOU...SHALL NOT...PASS!

 

[ZombieSlayer]

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hey Mate. must say, i stand corrected ,that is one tricked out savage.
more info please

you'll find most of the info here - http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...7-savage-mk2-tactical-trainer-viperskins.html



Started out at a mk2 fss. (sporter barrel synthetic stock) Carbon barrel is just cheap eBay twill tube which has a couple orings next to the action to support it and basically a thread protector glued onto the tube which screws onto the threaded barrel. Purely cosmetic. Bolt knob is welded on and blended. Waiting on some more skins to turn up to do the WMR in multicam but want to see what they look like and decide if I go black for the chassis or if I cerakote the chassis and barreled action to match the skins. And probably going to do the HMR in a dirty snow camo for something different with thumbhole skins. Not that I go to the snow shooting but.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

ITS SIMPLE...


Step 1. Get accurate bolt gun you can afford.

Step 2. Mount reliable scope that tracks well and mimics center fire's adjustments.

Step 3. Learn how to shoot.

Step 4. Shoot.

Bonus points if it looks cool.

Bonus points if you use it to make things bleed and/or die.

More bonus points if hippie/liberal/PETA douche is offended by your making things bleed and/or die.

Even more bonus points if a 10/22 dies a slow rusty death at the bottom of a river because your enjoying an actual good rifle.

^^^^For the win! When I grow up I wanna be just like DFoo.