Port pop. The gun is over gassed and unlocking the chamber while there is still significant pressure in the barrel.
Suppressors Trash panda or nomad
- Thread starter Oiange
- Start date
Port pop. The gun is over gassed and unlocking the chamber while there is still significant pressure in the barrel.
you can find a lot of discussion if you search for terms like blowback and back pressure, but the short version is that noise is produced by gas under pressure expanding at a high rate. The design of a semi auto gun tries to time the opening of the chamber so that pressure in the barrel has been reduced because the gas goes out the other end.
Traditional suppressors with baffles operate by trapping those gases instead of allowing them to escape, so that keeps the pressure in the barrel higher longer than designed. That can affect the timing of the action and make it operate faster, so combined with a higher pressure in the barrel for a longer time and the action opening sooner than intended there is an opportunity for the high pressure gas to escape and expand in the chamber and create high sound levels.
Back pressure is the term used for high pressure gas coming into the chamber. Blowback is the term used for lower pressure gas that flows back into the chamber that may not affect timing but still can increase fouling in the chamber.
Most baffle designs tend to produce higher levels at the ear than the muzzle on semiautos unless the gas is adjusted.
(At least that's my current understanding of the phenomenon, subject to correction)
Action cycling. On semi-autos chamber unlocks while still under pressure so you have blowback. And even if you don't (with an OSS like design) then the action cycling itself it still quite loud. The difference between a .300blk sub in a bolt gun and a .300blk sub in an AR to the shooter is immense, which is why I almost always encourage people to go that route instead of a .300blk semi-auto.
Also the Q didn't perform as well with .308 as their last video showed (also not lighter depending on config, and substantially less durable). The Vox was the clear loser here, but did much better with .308. Different designs handle higher/lower pressure different and change rankings relative to the others (which are all really close actually) in many cases with the host/cartridge used. Another thing to note is that while the Omega is ~1db louder at the ear, it is over 3db quieter at the muzzle vs. the Trash Panda. So it really comes down to use case. The 5.56 results (coming next Friday I believe) should be interesting.
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The Nomad is 6.5" long and 14 oz as a direct thread. That is shorter than the Trash Panda and only .3 ounces heavier for a can with a stellite blast baffle. The Nomad has no barrel length restriction. I just can't see the Trash Panda outlasting the Nomad on something like a Sig Rattler running supers all the time.
The Nomad can also be run as true QD. I don't consider the cherry bomb QD. I consider it direct thread on top of direct thread of sorts. I still don't quite understand the concept as I either want a can that can go on and off quickly or I want it on there for good. Maybe someone can explain the appeal of that to me. I guess so that when the can is off you get some muzzle rise/recoil mitigation while saving a little weight over a standard brake? To me they both are direct thread cans with only one having the ability to be true QD, albeit at a weight penalty if you choose to do so.
Nomad also has ability to add the titanium E-brake for a couple extra dB. If the meter is arguable, that would likely push it toward the Nomad. For me, dB is one of the last things I look for in a suppressor anyway. I am looking for durability, POI shift, reliability of QD system, length, weight and then finally dB. 95% of the time I will be running supersonic. I am just looking for something that allows me to shoot comfortably, not chase a few dB for nothing more than bragging rights on an excel spreadsheet.
The Nomad can also be run as true QD. I don't consider the cherry bomb QD. I consider it direct thread on top of direct thread of sorts. I still don't quite understand the concept as I either want a can that can go on and off quickly or I want it on there for good. Maybe someone can explain the appeal of that to me. I guess so that when the can is off you get some muzzle rise/recoil mitigation while saving a little weight over a standard brake? To me they both are direct thread cans with only one having the ability to be true QD, albeit at a weight penalty if you choose to do so.
Nomad also has ability to add the titanium E-brake for a couple extra dB. If the meter is arguable, that would likely push it toward the Nomad. For me, dB is one of the last things I look for in a suppressor anyway. I am looking for durability, POI shift, reliability of QD system, length, weight and then finally dB. 95% of the time I will be running supersonic. I am just looking for something that allows me to shoot comfortably, not chase a few dB for nothing more than bragging rights on an excel spreadsheet.
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The action noise and release of residual pressure as the action cycles drives the higher ear numbers. If you were shooting a bolt gun, the sound intensity at the ear would be a product of the sound emitted at the muzzle, and following the inverse square law, would be lower than the sound intensity at the muzzle. With a semi-automatic and a good can, it's not uncommon for the ear numbers, driven by action noise, to be higher than muzzle numbers.
Edit: Whups, somehow missed that Potss had already answered the question.
Just to bring this to a close, here are the 5.56 results:
Someone with more time and skill than me can make an infographic of the results, but I wanted to call special attention to the results of the Dead Air Nomad vs. the Q Trash Panda (what this thread was started about). On a stock colt 11.5in using M855:
The Trash Panda was 143.89db at the muzzle and 147.94 at the ear.
The Nomad was 136.1db at the muzzle and 147.38 a the ear.
In other words, a pretty crushing victory for the Nomad. It also does a good job of showing how different suppressors will handle different cartridges differently. The Trash Panda was a touch ahead on .300blk, the Nomad was a touch ahead on .308, and the Nomad is a significantly ahead on 5.56. Use case drives the choice. There are a ton of other really interesting results to go over from the video (the most important of which being use an adjustable gas block or all cans are basically the same at the ear) but those deserve their own thread.
Someone with more time and skill than me can make an infographic of the results, but I wanted to call special attention to the results of the Dead Air Nomad vs. the Q Trash Panda (what this thread was started about). On a stock colt 11.5in using M855:
The Trash Panda was 143.89db at the muzzle and 147.94 at the ear.
The Nomad was 136.1db at the muzzle and 147.38 a the ear.
In other words, a pretty crushing victory for the Nomad. It also does a good job of showing how different suppressors will handle different cartridges differently. The Trash Panda was a touch ahead on .300blk, the Nomad was a touch ahead on .308, and the Nomad is a significantly ahead on 5.56. Use case drives the choice. There are a ton of other really interesting results to go over from the video (the most important of which being use an adjustable gas block or all cans are basically the same at the ear) but those deserve their own thread.
Nomad crushing the Trash panda in another independent test
Judging by the posts here in this thread KB is one of three things:
1.) A liar.
2.) Totally incompetent.
3.) 1&2 at the same time.
No matter which of the three it is, I don't want anything to do with his products after this behavior (not to mention the performance in the videos).
1.) A liar.
2.) Totally incompetent.
3.) 1&2 at the same time.
No matter which of the three it is, I don't want anything to do with his products after this behavior (not to mention the performance in the videos).
I know this is an old thread but I wanted to give my objective opinion on the TP as I have owned it for a few years. I mainly use it on a 10.5" AR .223. I've ran over 2000 rounds through it with no issues. In terms of sound reduction and tone, it sounds pretty nice to me. I can run it outdoors without ear pro for as long as I deem it safe. It's easily one of my favorite cans due to the weight and ease of use. Timing anything on a barrel is annoying and I quite enjoy the QD'ish set up that Q provided. The saker in 556 is nice but not as nice as the TP. The YHM R2 762 can sounds as nice as the TP but its a lot heavier.
I don't know Kevin B but he seems to be running a company and selling quality products. I really don't understand the hate on the forums for this guy.
I don't know Kevin B but he seems to be running a company and selling quality products. I really don't understand the hate on the forums for this guy.
Have you read any of KB’s posts on this or any other forum? If you had, you would easily understand the hate. Fortunately two things can be true at once. KB can be a dick, and Q can put out good products.
It's because he's a narcissist that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, and he carries himself that way.
Anything that's perceived as any sort of a slight or critique of his products and he goes out of his way to insult those individuals - including paying customers.
Some of the stuff he comes up with are good designs - I really like his taper mount system, it works as advertised and it's elegant in it's design. But I'm not a fan of KB the individual.
I'm sure his suppressors are decent - sometimes as a community we get way too carried away in the minutia of inconsequential or insignificant details or performance metrics. But I don't really see much of a need to directly support KB.
I've seen a few from the hide and a few on other forums.
I can understand people's frustration but the hate and vitriol for KB doesn't really match up to the things that he said. I don't think he's out there killing babies, working for the CCP or partying with Hunter Biden. Plus I've never met the guy. So, for me, the points and opinions regarding his products are mostly subjective. I was really interested in the tubeless full Ti cans and I picked the TP for its innovative design characteristics and it's a great product.
I agree though, you can be a prick while your company creates great products.
I mean, if he truly treats his customers that way then that's a different story.
I haven't had any issues with the TP to where I would need to deal with his company but I do reserve the right to change my opinion.
If he's trying to sh!t on a customer for complaining about legitimate issues with his products, then I would understand why there's so much hate directed towards KB.
I just like the product. It works great for me and until I meet KB and proves himself to the that dude or he tries to insult me for no good reason, then I pretty much don't care. I was just wondering how and why there's so much hate for this guy.
If you have Instagram you should look on his page and see how he interacts with customers. Pretty enlightening.
If there's any issues with any of his products (every product has it's nuances and issues), he always blames it on the customer.
KB cannot fail you, you can only fail KB...
KB is a solid pretty likeable dude. In real life. You'd share a beer with him. Be excited to see him at one of your children's parties versus all the other lame ass dad's. Not because he owns a gun company. Or has machine guns. Because hes capable of being sociable and intelligent.
The reality is there are people in the firearms community who suck. Customers specifically. A never ending line of wannabes and pretender losers with anything from personality disorders to straight mental illness. You wouldn't let your kids go play at their kids house. You wouldn't share a drink with them. Your skin would crawl just being in proximity to them in actual real life.
Kevin knows this.
I know this.
Kevin's attitude and response is 100% based on that and frankly--he seems worn out dealing with those people.
Sure. Every business has problem customers. I get it. The overcompensating gun guys take the cake. I assure you. Many belive it is unacceptable to not just take it as a business owner. But they aren't business owners. And part of being the owner is that you get to set the rules. Customers do not set the rules. And thats why all the hurt feelings. Nothing more to it.
The reality is there are people in the firearms community who suck. Customers specifically. A never ending line of wannabes and pretender losers with anything from personality disorders to straight mental illness. You wouldn't let your kids go play at their kids house. You wouldn't share a drink with them. Your skin would crawl just being in proximity to them in actual real life.
Kevin knows this.
I know this.
Kevin's attitude and response is 100% based on that and frankly--he seems worn out dealing with those people.
Sure. Every business has problem customers. I get it. The overcompensating gun guys take the cake. I assure you. Many belive it is unacceptable to not just take it as a business owner. But they aren't business owners. And part of being the owner is that you get to set the rules. Customers do not set the rules. And thats why all the hurt feelings. Nothing more to it.
I’ll have to check it out. Hopefully I won’t fail the KB though lol
That’s my initial take on Kevin. Even doing a little digging on some of his past posts, the worst I could possibly say is that he’s blunt but he seems genuinely honest.
I guess people could say the same about me when I’m holding onto a truth and people attack rather than debate. End of the day, he knows a lot more about guns and suppressors than me and presumptively more than a lot of the people on the forums.
Funny this post showed up again. I've actually been kicking around the idea of another can and the Trash Panda and Nomad are the contenders.
I don't know the whole of the KB thing, but attitude or not doesn't affect whether a product is good or bad.
Only thing that makes me think is the lockin to the cherrybomb. While I think the Trash Panda is a good can, I am not crazy about the cherrybomb.
I don't know the whole of the KB thing, but attitude or not doesn't affect whether a product is good or bad.
Only thing that makes me think is the lockin to the cherrybomb. While I think the Trash Panda is a good can, I am not crazy about the cherrybomb.
Check out Rearden MFG.
It's what I use. Same mounting system as the cherry bomb, but with better designed and executed muzzle brakes and mounts.
Thanks for the info. I will keep them in mind making my decision.
I already have a Nomad in jail. Not the Ti, the standard stainless. I'm planning to use the Xeno mount with it. It seems really well thought out.
I Was just thinking a Trash Panda may be interesting. Those that have them really seem to like them.
Cost wise the Nomad stainless is cheaper than the Q. The Nomad Ti is slightly cheaper than the Q at Silencer Shop. That is not a major deciding factor.
I'll figure it out at some point and click the buy.
It's an odd business tactic to be outwardly rude and hostile to customers and potential customers.
I get it, there's a lot of disphits in the world, and if you have a business, some of those disphits become your customers. But as a business owner, you shouldn't outwardly treat everyone as a dipshit until proven otherwise. Not great for business.
Some people just don't know how to communicate over the internet. I know of some people that are some of the nicest in the world in person, but are incredibly hostile and unbearable with their online persona. Maybe this is KB.
I don't go to BBQ's with KB or interact with him in person. So I don't get the nice side (if it does exist, I'll give benefit of the doubt). As a customer/potential customer that can only interact online, I only get the hostile and unbearable personality. And life's way too short to deal with that bullshit.
KB's drunken interaction with Jay at Pew science was gross. Jay showed the receipts on instagram. Maybe it was already mentioned on this thread, but it's worth remembering.
With all the great suppressor companies out there and the many examples of Q's shitty welds, I'm not sure why Q would be on anyone's short list of consideration.
With all the great suppressor companies out there and the many examples of Q's shitty welds, I'm not sure why Q would be on anyone's short list of consideration.
I have a couple 6.5 Creedmoor gas guns and a 6.5 Grendel AR. A 6ARC is not far off. So the cans mentioned will bounce between them till I have enough to dedicate to each. When i go to the bolts i want then it'll be TBAC's in all likelyhood.
I would recommend looking at the CGS Hyperion K. Very low backpressure and would be fantastic on your gas guns.
Dead Air Nomad (Ti if you want lightweight) with a rearden atlas and muzzle device would be another great choice. Q's stuff is much more suited for subsonic flow.
Its obviously not the platform, its the substance of the mans words and character.
Oh no. Not Instagram.
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked at the CGS offerings. Pretty interesting on all accounts. Interesting where they're made.
Only thing that made me pass them over was their mounting. Limited and thread adapters have the threads in front of the taper. Not a total deal breaker.
It'll be interesting to see how the Nomad I have in jail performs.
Even if all things were equal who would you want to deal with in regards to qc or warranty issues?
That answer alone tells you which one to buy.
That answer alone tells you which one to buy.
I have 2 nomad ti and 2 trash panda’s. The nomad with plan b is lighter than trash panda. Was surprised. Both are great cans, but I do like that the trash panda doesn’t have a threaded adapter that I have to worry about.
What I don’t like about my thunder chicken (just a bit longer than the trash panda) is that it is not threaded for a rear cap. The cherry bomb brake doesn’t have any exposed wrench flats exposed when installed in the suppressor. If you stick it in a Q suppressor, it’s kind of a process to get it out. Stick it in a plan B (or Rearden) adapter and you can unscrew the adapter to expose the end of the brake to get a socket on it.
As far as performance, I’ve no complaints about either the nomad or the thunder chicken.
As far as performance, I’ve no complaints about either the nomad or the thunder chicken.
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