TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

It is the medium with the 56mm objective.
I have the same set up on my 308 trg.
There is just enough clearence for the scope cover to fit comfortably.

I do like the woodland camo.

Mike

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Thanks for posting your results, Mike. I'm surprised the Bergers didn't group better for you. They did very well in my rifle. Did you confirm AOL to lands in your rifle? It might be different than mine.

I got to the range today and tried out some Sierra 142s. All I can say is WOW! I have a new favorite bullet. Here are the particulars.

All loads listed below were using Sierra 142gr MKs loaded .005 off the lands (2.902 OAL), CCI200 primers, Remington brass (3rd loading), basic case prep; no sorting of brass or bullets. All loads were shot at 100yds off a bench with a sandbag rest. Conditions were 82 degrees, winds at 10 mph. I tested with both H-4350 and H-4831sc

H-4350:
- 43.0gr .466" 5 shot group
- 43.5gr .444" 5 shot group
- 44.0gr .589" 5 shot group
- 44.5gr .323" 5 shot group

H-4381sc
- 47.0gr .583" 5 shot group with one called flyer. .404" without fler
- 47.5gr .240" 5 shot group (best to date)
- 48.0gr .489" 5 shot group

The combination of H4831sc and Sierra 142s was the best I have tried so far and H-4350 was also very good. Consistency was excellent with both powders, even with differing loads. Considering The Sierras did better than both the Bergers and the Scenars, and cost considerably less, they will be my "go to" bullet for now on.

The average of four, 5 shot groups with H-4350 was .456", even though all four groups varied by .5 grains of powder.

The avaerage of three, 5 shot groups with H4831sc was even better at .437". That was also with each group varying by .5 grains.

I continue to be amazed at how well these rifles shoot. Even the very worst loads I have tried so far have been well under 1 moa.

My chrono is set to arrive mid week. I will post velocity and deviation as soon as possible for the loads that have performed well.

Keep em coming!

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Damn LW you gotta find a way to get past 100

. That .240" looks sweet but my go to load for distance is not alway's my best 100 yarder usually it's not in any caliber. I should have my 260 mid week and will load up a few with your data adjusted for Lapua brass and give them a go @ 300 and 600. If the 260 is like the 308, 300 and 338's the chamber in the 260's are going to be dead nuts to each other. Good call on priorities, a chrono investment. ip that Cor bon really looks good.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

By popular demand, I bought a chronograph and used it today for the first time. I loaded up 10 rounds each of the four, heavy bullet loads (accuracy figures for these loads are listed previously in this thread) that have so far proven to be the most accurate. Each load was measured in two 5 shot strings (with tthree exceptions as noted below) that were shot in a "round robin" format.

All shooting was done at 100yds off a bench with sandbag rests. Temp was 90 degress, winds light and variable. Range is approximately 36' above sea level. Chronograph was positioned 10' in front of firing line.

Here are the particulars:
Load 1: 142gr SMK, 47.5gr H4831sc
- 1st string (5 shots): Avg velocity=2781; ES=18; SD=7
- 2nd string (5 shots): Avg velocity=2800; ES=17; SD=8
Note: I believe the first string showed lower velocity than the 2nd due to starting with a cold, clean bore.

Load 2: 142gr SMK, 44.5gr H4350
- 1st string (5 shots): Avg velocity=2863; ES=12; SD=5
- 2nd string (4 shots): Avg velocity=2865; ES=18; SD=9
Note: One of the cartridges in the 2nd string inadvertently got an extra grain of powder (45.5gr). It registered 2930 fps and hit about 1/2 higher than the rest of the group. I deleted this shot from the data so as not to skew the numbers. Interestingly, their was still no sign of over-pressure. There may still be another accuarcy node above 44.5gr. Anyone attempting to explore this should be aware that 44.5gr of H4350 is the published max with this bullet per Hodgen load data.

Load 3: 140gr Berger VLD, 43.5gr H4350
- 1st string (5 shots): Avg velocity=2806; ES=17; SD=6
- 2nd string (5 shots): Avg velocity=2806; ES=23; SD=9

Load 4: 139gr Scenar, 43.5gr H4350
- 1st string (4 shots): Avg velocity=2827; ES=6; SD=3
- 2nd string (4 shots): Avg velocity=2827; ES=24; SD=10
Note: The 1st string only had 4 shots due to a wood chuck popping up at the top of the berm. I couldn't resist. The 2nd string only had 4 shots due to the last shot in the string failing to register. Strangely, this load was the most consistent on the 1st string (and the most accurate; .233"), and then the least consistent on the 2nd string (although still pretty accurate; .523"). Not sure what to make out of that.

I have to admit that since I have no previous experience using a chronograph, I don't really know how to analize this data. Velocity figures are obvious and in general I know that the lower the ES and SD the better, but I don't really know if the data I collected today indicates that these loads should perform well at long range or not. So, any members that read this and understand the data, please let me know what you think.

I'll continue to post more data as I acquire it. Anyone else doing load development, please do the same.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

LW, great you got a chrono those are some good ES and SD #'s but there is no way to know if they will perform at distance unless you shoot at distance. Your next goal needs to be finding a place where you can stretch it out to at least 300 yards. Your 100 yard groups look very good but I have had plenty of loads that were great @ 100 but fell apart past that. I finally received the 260 yesterday set up today and tomorrow range first of week. Will chrono then start at 300. I loaded some with your data and if the 260 is like the 308 and 338 TRG's I would bet if it shoots in mine it will shoot in yours.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Hey, Mark. Congrats on finally getting your TRG! I think you will find it was worth the wait.

I noticed iplumb did'nt seem to to do very well with the Berger 140 VLD load that worked well for me. I also noticed his velocities were almost 100fps lower than mine on both the Berger load and the Scenar load. He mentioned useing necked up 243 brass. Maybe that had something to do with it. Also, he didn't mention what primer he was using. That may have had a bearing on it as well. Come to think of it, the velocity he was showing for the factory Cor Bon load seemed low too. Maybe his chronograph is out of calibration? I'm very curious to see if yours likes the same loads as mine and shows similar velocities.

As to shooting longer ranges, I do shoot 600yds once a month in f-class matches, but as I mentioned before, I can't really get a look at the groups, just the score.

I may look into joining another club no too far from me that has 300yd facilities, but not sure if they have a waiting list or not. I think annual dues are $400. This hobby is getting expensive.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Yeah finally, about time hey. I'm sure it will be worth the wait I have a 22 in 308 and a 42 + friends that have and they are all shooters. I need to revisit iplumb's post and check. I finished setting up rifle and seating loads so can get out and get some over chrono and initial accuracy testing. Sako hit the right reamer the 142 SMK's, 139 and 123 Scenars all into the lands with .040-.060 to spare at mag length. The Berger 140 target bt's and 140 Amax have to jump .010 @ mag length in my rifle sure yours is very close. Just got a box of Berger 140 VLD's need to load. LOL, indeed it does go through cash LW but dig up that $400 best $ you will spend even though only 300 you can get some good data at that distance 100 will get boring real fast. 300 will too but you can practice the dot drill that will keep it real interesting for a very long time.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

LW, a big thank you for the updated data using your new chrono. Your numbers are impressive, both in terms of velocities and consistency. Keep an eye on your primer pockets to see if they start to begin loosening up. I will be curious to see how your brass holds up.

I too just got my .260 TRG but it might be a week or two until I can make it to the range. I got the same measurement using the 140 Amax as Mark. The 123 Amax is very similar. Both will be about .010" off the lands when loaded to mag length. I am hoping to exclusively use the Amax bullets as I will be using my TRG for long range varmint shooting, not competition. Hopefully the Amaxes will shoot well as they are really the best game in town for what I want to do with the rifle. My local range is limited to 300 yards, long enough to give me a good idea on accuracy, but not long enough to really ring out the rifle. I will have to do that out in the boonies. I will chono my loads as well. In addition to some of the powders mentioned in this thread I will be trying out N160 in mine.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LW, a big thank you for the updated data using your new chrono. Your numbers are impressive, both in terms of velocities and consistency. Keep an eye on your primer pockets to see if they start to begin loosening up. I will be curious to see how your brass holds up.

I too just got my .260 TRG but it might be a week or two until I can make it to the range. I got the same measurement using the 140 Amax as Mark. The 123 Amax is very similar. Both will be about .010" off the lands when loaded to mag length. I am hoping to exclusively use the Amax bullets as I will be using my TRG for long range varmint shooting, not competition. Hopefully the Amaxes will shoot well as they are really the best game in town for what I want to do with the rifle. My local range is limited to 300 yards, long enough to give me a good idea on accuracy, but not long enough to really ring out the rifle. I will have to do that out in the boonies. I will chono my loads as well. In addition to some of the powders mentioned in this thread I will be trying out N160 in mine.</div></div>

Thanks, Fireball.

I'm on my 4th loading with this brass and so far, so good. The primer pockets are maybe just a hair looser than new, but still very workable. I figure I should get at least 6 loads out of this brass and maybe even a couple more. Have to wonder if Lapua is really worth the extra cash.

Let me know how those Amax 140s do. I haven't tried those yet, but I like the lower price point. I did try the 120gr Amax and they weren't that great in my rifle. The 123gr Scenars did considerably better. I didn't try very many combinations with the the Amax 120s, so it's possible I just didn't find the sweet spot with them.

The .260 TRG is an interesting choice for long range varminting. Again, let me know how that works out since I am an avid varmint hunter myself. I did shoot two wood chucks so far with my TRG, but both were with the 139gr Scenar loaded to about 2827 fps. Both shots were between 100 and 120 yds and both were head shots. Although the Scenars dispatched them well enough, there wasn't much expansion. For now, my favorite varmint rifle is still my Cooper M22 in 6mm Remington. Absolutely devistating on varmints.

Good luck and please post your results.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Yeah, when you mentioned the chuck at the range I got a good chuckle out of it.

I will tell you that the Lapua .260 cases I have measured are so darned consistent in the necks it is scary. I used my ball mic and kept going around case after case and all I kept getting was 0.015" thickness, and just perfect for our TRG chambers. So when those Remingtons give up on you you may want to try a box of the Lapua cases.

I currently use mostly 20s on my hunts and they are limiting me to 500 yards so that is why I finally bellied up for the TRG now that it is chambered in a better cartridge for my application.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Made it to range today with the 260 good news all shot 1/2 minute or better at 100. Tested were 140 Amax,123 and 139 Scenar ,142 SMK, 140 Berger match LR. Two powders used with each bullet H4350 and H4831SC. Bad news only one load with single digit SD Berger LRT 140 43.5 H4350 it ran ave. 10 shot over chrono 2848FPS SD 6. Then tested all at 300 wind gust and swirl 3-12 MPH results Amax 43.5 H4350 2.5h 2.5 v did not try with 4831SC, 139 Scenar 43.5 H4350 2.2 H 1.25 V, same bullet with 46.8 H4831SC 1.80H 1.30V ,123 Scenar 43.8 H4350 2.35H 1.20V, LW's load 142 SMK with 4831SC 2.30H 1"V, 142 SMK 43.5 H4350 2.80 H 1.60V, 142SMK 46.8 4831SC 3"H 1.60V, 140 Berger 43.5 H4350, 1.85H, 1.50V I would have expected this to do better vertical because of low SD. Best of day 140 berger LRT 46.8 4831SC 1.90H .5"V. More to come when sort out data.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Made another trip to the range today with the chronograph. This time, I shot two strings of 20 rounds (each string was broken down into four, 5 shot groups), each string of 20 being a different load. Here are the results.

Conditions; sunny, 95 degrees, winds light and variable. All shooting was at 100 yds off a bench with sandbag rests at 36' above sea level.

1st string: 140gr Berger VLD, 44.0gr H4350, .005" off lands
*WARNING; This load is well above Berger's published maximum. Approach with extreme caution!
- High Vel = 2886 fps
- Low Vel = 2830 fps
- Avg vel = 2870 fps
- ES = 44 fps
- SD = 12
Notes: I started with a cold, clean bore and fired two fowlers (not recorded). The first demonstrated pressure signs (sticky bolt lift and ejector mark on case head). The second fowler presented only a very slight bolt stickyness. The next 20 showed no signs of high pressure. Accuracy was only so, so. Average of four, 5 shot groups measured .670" with a best group of .401".

2nd string: 139 Scenar, 43.5gr H4350, .005 off lands
- High Vel = 2904 fps
- Low Vel = 2830 fps
- Avg Vel = 2870 fps
- ES = 74 fps
- SD = 18
Notes: Started with a warm barrel. No signs of high pressure. Accuracy was good, but not great. Average of four, 5 shot groups was .536" with a best group of .452".

Conclusions: I believe the heat was responsible for the generally high MVs for both these loads. The Berger load would have probably averaged higher if I had shot that string second since the barrel would have been hotter. I saw a definite and very obvious correlation with barrel heat and increased velocity. The hotter the barrel got, the faster the MV for both loads. I intentionally fired the last 5 shot group of the Scenars fairly rapidly to see what effect it would have on MV. Velocities topped 2900 fps on the last two shots which is why the ES for this load is wide. The first shot in this group was an uncalled flyer, but the next four grouped .316".

Both of these loads have shown better accuracy in prior tests. Again, the heat probably had an impact on accuracy. Also, my barrel may be getting a bit of copper fowling. Time for a thurough cleaning.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Your 43.5 139 Lapua load data pretty much mirrors mine LW except I was running Lapua brass I belive you run Rem. I ran 2 5 shot over chrono one when 90 the other @ 96 degree's. 90 2864 ave. SD 14, 96 2879 ave. 16SD. My DA was 7420'.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your 43.5 139 Lapua load data pretty much mirrors mine LW except I was running Lapua brass I belive you run Rem. I ran 2 5 shot over chrono one when 90 the other @ 96 degree's. 90 2864 ave. SD 14, 96 2879 ave. 16SD. My DA was 7420'.</div></div>

How was the accuracy? Have you tried any other loads yet?

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your 43.5 139 Lapua load data pretty much mirrors mine LW except I was running Lapua brass I belive you run Rem. I ran 2 5 shot over chrono one when 90 the other @ 96 degree's. 90 2864 ave. SD 14, 96 2879 ave. 16SD. My DA was 7420'.</div></div>

How was the accuracy? Have you tried any other loads yet? </div></div>

It's in data I posted and need to straighten up in above post LW yours 142 SMK 'LW' load. As noted no problem shooting ANY into .5 or under @ 100 yours included. I did not write down how far under .5 just did a quick measuerment there were a few in the 3's. My main goal was to get a handle on vertical's @ 300.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Sorry, I missed your privious post where you put up your numbers. Looks like you had a busy day at the range.

I haven't tried the Berger LRTs yet. Guess I'll have to give those a try.

What seating depths were you using?

 

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Hello Guys,
I need to get back out and shoot some more. The Bergers I was using were 140 Hunting VLD's (orange box). I have had awesome luck with them in other rifles so I ordered two boxes to give them a go.

I am using lapua 243 brass - upsized and neck sized using redding comp dies> I need to check on what bushing I used.

For my 308 TRG - I use lapua brass - redding dies w/ bushing, 155 scenars 45.6 varget with 215 match primers. I've shot that load to a mile. Great numbers on the crono & great accuracy. I just wonder if my 260 likes the scenars over the hunting vlds.

I do wonder if my crono is off.

Mike

 

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

By the way - thank you guys for starting this and keeping it going. I think we all win because of it.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iplumb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello Guys,
I need to get back out and shoot some more. The Bergers I was using were 140 Hunting VLD's (orange box). I have had awesome luck with them in other rifles so I ordered two boxes to give them a go.

I am using lapua 243 brass - upsized and neck sized using redding comp dies> I need to check on what bushing I used.

For my 308 TRG - I use lapua brass - redding dies w/ bushing, 155 scenars 45.6 varget with 215 match primers. I've shot that load to a mile. Great numbers on the crono & great accuracy. I just wonder if my 260 likes the scenars over the hunting vlds.

I do wonder if my crono is off.

Mike</div></div>

Hey, Mike.

Based on how similar the results Mark S and I have gotten, I have yo believe someting is amiss with your chrono. Have you tried it lately with rifle/load that is tried and true?

Mid to high 2800 fps range appears to be easily done without pressure problems. Low 2900s seems doable too, but I don't want to trash my brass and burn my barrel for an extra 30 or 40 fps.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, I missed your privious post where you put up your numbers. Looks like you had a busy day at the range.

I haven't tried the Berger LRTs yet. Guess I'll have to give those a try.

What seating depths were you using? </div></div>

LW Berger target BT's PN 26406 loaded to 2.930" OAL or 3.230" using Hornady comparator with 5-26 insert. This bullet and Amax are the only one's I have ran into YET that will not hit the lands @ mag length. At the above length they are jumping .010 in my rifle.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iplumb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By the way - thank you guys for starting this and keeping it going. I think we all win because of it.
</div></div>
Yes it should cut down on development a good thing. Like I stated previous if the 260 is like Sako's other caliber TRG's what works in one will work in other's.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I took my .260 out today for the first time. My only goal was to find an upper range of N160 that I could use with the 140 Amax. I went all the way to 43.5 and can still go higher.

Here are some N160 numbers. The first seven shots were with virgin necked down Win 7mm/08 brass.

Shot 1 40 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2390 fps (1st shot, damp bore)
Shot 2 40.5 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2407 fps
Shot 3 41 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2422 fps
Shot 4 41.5 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2467 fps
Shot 5 42 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2508 fps
Shot 6 42.5 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2578 fps
Shot 7 43 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2592 fps

No high pressure signs at all. I will go higher next time out.

Then I shot three, 3 shot groups using virgin Lapua .260 cases:

3 shots 41.2 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2468 fps
3 shots 42.3 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2550 fps
3 shots 43.5 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2650 fps

Once again, no high pressure signs and I will go up next trip to the range.

Here are the last two, 3 shot groups at 100 yards:

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Keep it coming FB, yep you need to pump up the volume. I have a boat load of VV150 may try that.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Thanks for weighing in, FB. I'm assuming these were pretty conservative loads? I'm eager to see more!

I hit the range again today and re-tested one of my loads that produced great accuracy before (142gr SMK and 44.5gr H4350). The average velocity for 15 rounds was 2875. ES was 37 and SD was 10. Accuracy wasn't great today, only managed a .693" average for three, 5 shot groups. Best was a .563". Kept getting 3 or 4 nice and tight, but then a flyer or two would open up the group.

It was 90 degrees out and I can't seem to get solid accuracy in this kind of heat. I think I may try milder loads and see if they are more consistent in the hot weather.

Have you guys noticed the same thing?

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for weighing in, FB. I'm assuming these were pretty conservative loads? I'm eager to see more!

I hit the range again today and re-tested one of my loads that produced great accuracy before (142gr SMK and 44.5gr H4350). The average velocity for 15 rounds was 2875. ES was 37 and SD was 10. Accuracy wasn't great today, only managed a .693" average for three, 5 shot groups. Best was a .563". Kept getting 3 or 4 nice and tight, but then a flyer or two would open up the group.

It was 90 degrees out and I can't seem to get solid accuracy in this kind of heat. I think I may try milder loads and see if they are more consistent in the hot weather.

Have you guys noticed the same thing? </div></div>

Yes, those N160 loads are middle range when you do a detailed Quickload run on that powder. I wanted to make sure and go slow as this N160 I have is from 1995 and I have seen large lot to lot swings with other VV powders. Within a lot they are very consistent. But lot to lot they can vary quite a bit. I think my 1995 lot of N160 is a touch on the slow side. I will be taking it up to 45 gr. next time out and if I can't get near 2750 fps I will be trying H4350 next.

Speaking of which from everything I have read your load of 44.5 gr. of H4350 is a hot load (once again this does depend on your particular lot) and this was why I mentioned to keep an eye on your primer pockets especially since you are using Rem cases. Most likely you are on edge with that load and when you get out in the hot weather your pressure rises even more and it starts throwing your groups. I would back it down if it were me and have a goal of 2750 to 2800 fps with the 140s, especially with Rem cases.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep it coming FB, yep you need to pump up the volume. I have a boat load of VV150 may try that. </div></div>

I'll get more data hopefully monday, taking her up to 45 gr. I will also be getting some preliminary data for the 123 A-MAX's using Varget so we have an idea when shooting the lighter bullets with a faster powder.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I agree that 44.5gr of h4350 is a hot load, especially in summer weather. I am going to bring it down and probably not go above 43.5, at least till the weather cools down.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Here's some more N160/140 A-MAX data and some preliminary Varget data with the 123 A-MAX's.

I shot three, 3 shot groups at 100 yds using virgin Lapua .260 cases:

3 shots 44 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2672 fps
3 shots 44.5 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2713 fps
3 shots 45 gr. N160 140 Amax: 2745 fps

So I was able to hit my goal of 2750 fps with 45 gr. of N160. Next I will see how this load shoots at 300 yds. The largest of the three groups measured 0.548".

Next is the Varget/123 A-MAX data. It was only a quick test to see how fast/slow my lot of Varget is in the .260 and to see how the Sako liked the 123 gr. A-MAX.

Shot 1 39 gr. Varget 123 A-MAX: 2751 fps
Shot 2 39.5 gr. Varget 123 A-MAX: 2784 fps
Shot 3 40 gr. Varget 123 A-MAX: 2803 fps

And finally I shot one, 3 shot group at 100 yds.

3 Shots 40.5 gr. Varget 123 A-MAX: 2830 fps

I will be playing with Varget and the 123 A-MAX's some more. There was noticeably less recoil shooting the 123s vs. the 140s. I am shooting all this data with the muzzle brake removed so the difference in recoil was quite noticeable.

Here was the last group of the morning using the 40.5 gr. Varget/123 A-MAX load.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Nice shooting. Looks like that combo is a winner.

I tried some 120gr Amax, but didn't get great results. Maybe I will have to try some other powder combinations. I have a little bit of Varget sitting around, so maybe I will give it a try.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

LW, I was shooting the newer 123's that were designed for the Creedmore. That may have something to do with the difference in groups between you and I. Also, it may be because I was using a different powder and found a sweet spot.

 

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Any thoughts on Varget with the 139 Scenars? I have had nothing but awesome results with my 308 TRG and varget w 155 scenars. I need to look for some load data.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I've seen folks mention it (Varget and the 139/140s) and some of them having very good results. I don't have any plans to try it myself as I have a good supply of slower powders for the 140s.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Made it to range today with the 260 good news all shot 1/2 minute or better at 100. Tested were 140 Amax,123 and 139 Scenar ,142 SMK, 140 Berger match LR. Two powders used with each bullet H4350 and H4831SC. Bad news only one load with single digit SD Berger LRT 140 43.5 H4350 it ran ave. 10 shot over chrono 2848FPS SD 6. Then tested all at 300 wind gust and swirl 3-12 MPH results Amax 43.5 H4350 2.5h 2.5 v did not try with 4831SC, 139 Scenar 43.5 H4350 2.2 H 1.25 V, same bullet with 46.8 H4831SC 1.80H 1.30V ,123 Scenar 43.8 H4350 2.35H 1.20V, LW's load 142 SMK with 4831SC 2.30H 1"V, 142 SMK 43.5 H4350 2.80 H 1.60V, 142SMK 46.8 4831SC 3"H 1.60V, 140 Berger 43.5 H4350, 1.85H, 1.50V I would have expected this to do better vertical because of low SD. Best of day 140 berger LRT 46.8 4831SC 1.90H .5"V. More to come when sort out data.</div></div>

Hey Mark.

I tried out the Berger 140 LRs and found them to be finicky in my rifle. First I tried loading to mag length at several different powder charges (all loads tried were with H4350). The only one that grouped decently was 42.2gr but velocity was barely 2700fps. All other charges grouped poorly.

I tried again loading to .007" off the lands with 43.5gr. This is way longer than mag length with this bullet. This worked better but still frustrating. First two rounds were a little loose and then the next three grouped .168". Five shot group was .592". I got an SD of 9.

What length are you loading these to? If you are using an "S" type die, what size bushing are you using with the Lapua brass? I found my neck tension with the bushing I using for my Remington brass (.284") to be tight on the Lapua brass. Wondering if this may be part of the problem. I ordered a .286 and will try again when it comes in.

By the way, I tried what has been my most consistent load (139 Scenar, 43.5gr H4350) with Lapua brass and it did VERY well. Shot a .506" group with a called flyer. The other four grouped .118". SD was 7.

God, I love this rifle!

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

LW, the Berger 140 with H4350 was not steller in my rifle either it DID show potential with 46.8 4831SC. My testing has been on hold waiting for replacement rifle from EO, looks to have a bad chamber but in typical EO stlye taken care of immediatly will be back in the saddle next week. The 139 and 43.5 also showed potential in my rifle so going to work with that and 140 Berger's. I just received a box of 140 Berger VLD's and will give them a go should be able to jam and fit mag. Will get info on S bush size for Lapua to you I run Redding dies and .002 NT, will also get OAL on my 140 B match. Like I said like you I'm not seeing anything great with H4350 and B 140's but the ticket looks to be 4831SC.

Redding S bush size Lapua brass .002 NT .293. OAL 140 Berger mag lenght 2.915", with 139 Scenar's 2.905".

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber?

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon. </div></div>

Perhaps their flusher wasn't flowing for a bit. I think you are right. It would have been interesting to look at it with a borescope.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon. </div></div>

Oh shit... mine has the same problem. I also noticed the rings on my brass and thought it was my die. But, after reading your post I checked my chamber and sure enough the top 1/3 of chamber is ringed just as you described. Good catch, Mark.

I just spoke to EO and they said they will replace the rifle immediately at no cost. Even better, I asked if I could hang on to it till next week since I have an f-class match this Saturday and they said "no problem". They are going to have UPS pick it up on Monday and will have a new one back to me before the end of the week. Can't ask for better customer service than that. No wonder EO is so highly thought of on this forum.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon. </div></div>

Perhaps their flusher wasn't flowing for a bit. I think you are right. It would have been interesting to look at it with a borescope. </div></div>

Exactly FB. Wish I would have had a scope it was hard to see a first but once you caught it was obvious and no problem at all to feel. The first 2/3's was smooth as silk as it should be then you hit the ridges. I had 3 people look and had them tell me what they saw W/O me saying it took them a while but all 3 caught it.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon. </div></div>

Oh shit... mine has the same problem. I also noticed the rings on my brass and thought it was my die. But, after reading your post I checked my chamber and sure enough the top 1/3 of chamber is ringed just as you described. Good catch, Mark.

I just spoke to EO and they said they will replace the rifle immediately at no cost. Even better, I asked if I could hang on to it till next week since I have an f-class match this Saturday and they said "no problem". They are going to have UPS pick it up on Monday and will have a new one back to me before the end of the week. Can't ask for better customer service than that. No wonder EO is so highly thought of on this forum. </div></div>

Tell me you pulling my leg LW!!!!!!!

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LW, the Berger 140 with H4350 was not steller in my rifle either it DID show potential with 46.8 4831SC. My testing has been on hold waiting for replacement rifle from EO, looks to have a bad chamber but in typical EO stlye taken care of immediatly will be back in the saddle next week. The 139 and 43.5 also showed potential in my rifle so going to work with that and 140 Berger's. I just received a box of 140 Berger VLD's and will give them a go should be able to jam and fit mag. Will get info on S bush size for Lapua to you I run Redding dies and .002 NT, will also get OAL on my 140 B match. Like I said like you I'm not seeing anything great with H4350 and B 140's but the ticket looks to be 4831SC.

Redding S bush size Lapua brass .002 NT .293. OAL 140 Berger mag lenght 2.915", with 139 Scenar's 2.905".</div></div>

Thanks for the info, Mark. When I get my rifle back I'll try the Bergers with H4831 and see if that works any better.

Do you think the load development we've done will still hold true on the new rifles? I would sure hate to have to start all over again. Between loading and actual range time, I must have 30 hours of work into this by now, not to mention a fair bit of cash spent on bullets, brass and powder.

Also, are you sure of your bushing size for Lapua brass? I measured several loaded rounds at the neck and they all came in at exactly .288". I also use .002" NT which is why I ordered a .286" bushing. We are .007" apart on our measurements. That makes me a bit uneasy.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, what exactly was wrong with the chamber? </div></div>
Shot great during load development FB. Went to size fired brass and got a funny feel kind of a notchy feel for lack of a better term looked at brass and it had distinct ring's top 1/3 of brass. I was using a Redding fL bushing die and first thought was bad die I had another old FL tried that and same thing. Pulled bolt took a look at chamber and you could see grooves last 1/3 in chamber, took a dental pick and could feel the grooves. My .02 the reamer did not clear all metal and a chunk grooved it. I did not have any feeding or ejection issues and rifle shot 1/2" MOA. I advised EO and as usual top flight no questions sending new rifle. Beretta already sent UPS pickup label. Don't know how it got by Sako but it did so will have new 260 soon. </div></div>

Oh shit... mine has the same problem. I also noticed the rings on my brass and thought it was my die. But, after reading your post I checked my chamber and sure enough the top 1/3 of chamber is ringed just as you described. Good catch, Mark.

I just spoke to EO and they said they will replace the rifle immediately at no cost. Even better, I asked if I could hang on to it till next week since I have an f-class match this Saturday and they said "no problem". They are going to have UPS pick it up on Monday and will have a new one back to me before the end of the week. Can't ask for better customer service than that. No wonder EO is so highly thought of on this forum. </div></div>

Tell me you pulling my leg LW!!!!!!!</div></div>

I wish I was, but it's obvious Mark S' chamber and mine were cut with the same defective reamer. As Mark mentioned, the ridges are very easy to feel. Now that I think about it, I did have some of my stouter loads stick in the chamber a bit when it was hot. This may have been due to those ridges more so than the loads.

On the bright side, so long as my previous load development holds true on the replacement rifle, I will have managed to do quite a bit of load development and even shoot a couple of matches without putting any wear on my barrel. I just hope the replacement shoots at least as good as the one I'm sending back.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I just checked mine with my borescope for you guys and it is ok. It has the usual minor machining marks, but no grooves. Can you guys post some close up photos of your fired cases?

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just checked mine with my borescope for you guys and it is ok. It has the usual minor machining marks, but no grooves. Can you guys post some close up photos of your fired cases?</div></div>

I suck with the whole picture thing, but I'll try to put something up.

As it turns out, my serial number is 104 and Mark's is 102. So anyone who has a serial number in this general range should check their chamber.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

As an FYI, my fired case necks, both Lapua .260 and necked down Win 7/08 cases, measure 0.2975".

My Lapua necks are a consistent 0.015" all the way around using a ball mic so this gives me a loaded diameter of 0.294". So this gives me a little over 0.003" neck clearance in my chamber which is perfect. I use a 0.291" Redding neck bushing for 0.003" neck tension.

The Win cases have thinner necks so I get more neck clearance with them.

Hope this helps.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Here is a pic. I hope this works...

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a pic. I hope this works...


</div></div>

One last try...

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As an FYI, my fired case necks, both Lapua .260 and necked down Win 7/08 cases, measure 0.2975".

My Lapua necks are a consistent 0.015" all the way around using a ball mic so this gives me a loaded diameter of 0.294". So this gives me a little over 0.003" neck clearance in my chamber which is perfect. I use a 0.261" Redding neck bushing for 0.003" neck tension.

The Win cases have thinner necks so I get more neck clearance with them.

Hope this helps.</div></div>

Now I'm really confused. I think my calipers are off. I just measured the inside diameter of a .283 bushing and it shows .278". This could explain why my measurements are so much different than yours. Great... something else to buy now.

I'm assuming you meant .291 bushing in your post, not .261. Is that correct?

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Sorry, yes, .291" bushing. I'll correct it.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just checked mine with my borescope for you guys and it is ok. It has the usual minor machining marks, but no grooves. Can you guys post some close up photos of your fired cases? </div></div>

After resize note rings.