TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Wow, that looks pretty bad. Glad they're taking care of you Mark.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LW, the Berger 140 with H4350 was not steller in my rifle either it DID show potential with 46.8 4831SC. My testing has been on hold waiting for replacement rifle from EO, looks to have a bad chamber but in typical EO stlye taken care of immediatly will be back in the saddle next week. The 139 and 43.5 also showed potential in my rifle so going to work with that and 140 Berger's. I just received a box of 140 Berger VLD's and will give them a go should be able to jam and fit mag. Will get info on S bush size for Lapua to you I run Redding dies and .002 NT, will also get OAL on my 140 B match. Like I said like you I'm not seeing anything great with H4350 and B 140's but the ticket looks to be 4831SC.

Redding S bush size Lapua brass .002 NT .293. OAL 140 Berger mag lenght 2.915", with 139 Scenar's 2.905".</div></div>

Thanks for the info, Mark. When I get my rifle back I'll try the Bergers with H4831 and see if that works any better.

Do you think the load development we've done will still hold true on the new rifles? I would sure hate to have to start all over again. Between loading and actual range time, I must have 30 hours of work into this by now, not to mention a fair bit of cash spent on bullets, brass and powder.

Also, are you sure of your bushing size for Lapua brass? I measured several loaded rounds at the neck and they all came in at exactly .288". I also use .002" NT which is why I ordered a .286" bushing. We are .007" apart on our measurements. That makes me a bit uneasy. </div></div>

Yes I'm pretty sure load development not in vain. Rifle shot lights out so do not expect any improvement in accuracy but would sure take. Yep pulled and looked at bushing size before I posted yesterday. Will check bushing again and brass thickness tomorrow but say 0.030" total neck + 0.264" bullet = 0.294

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, that looks pretty bad. Glad they're taking care of you Mark. </div></div>

It was easy to pick up after resize FB. I wish it had been a die problem but then again new rifle on the way. EO and Beretta never blinked. Good to hear your trouble free.

 

[Friar]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I have one of the 260 TRG's pd off and am only waiting to go pick it up. My concern is I do reload; however I only fl resize for everything I reload for and do not have the knowledge base that you fellas appear to have as far as reloading goes. Would I be better off getting the TRG in a 308 instead of 260? I really wanted the 260 as its ballistics are impressive when compared to the 308. But if I can get the 308 up and running more quickly and have better accuracy than the 260 would I be better served to go that route? I was very excited about getting one of these but now I'm 2nd guessing myself as I look through the posts (chamber issues) thus far and perhaps my expectations were too high on what to expect with 260 accuracy. This has been a massive expenditure given my income and I do not want to end up regretting it. If I go the other route I have a new box of Lapua 260 brass (from Brownells) that will be a good buy.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Stay with the 260, If any issues they WILL be quickly resolved. Per above posts you can see the problem by pulling bolt and looking with a flashlight you can also feel with dental pick type device. Also if you do none of the above the first time you resize you will note rings like pic I posted of brass. Stay excited the 260 is a sweet caliber, after time behind the 260 I can tell my 308 TRG will not be getting used as much. So far only 2 that I'm aware of have the problem. Per LW his #104 mine 102 so I would guess if you got 103 you MAY have a problem.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stay with the 260, If any issues they WILL be quickly resolved. Per above posts you can see the problem by pulling bolt and looking with a flashlight you can also feel with dental pick type device. Also if you do none of the above the first time you resize you will note rings like pic I posted of brass. Stay excited the 260 is a sweet caliber, after time behind the 260 I can tell my 308 TRG will not be getting used as much. So far only 2 that I'm aware of have the problem. Per LW his #104 mine 102 so I would guess if you got 103 you MAY have a problem.</div></div>

+1

Don't be intimidated by the finer points of reloading. My basic reloads still shoot better than factory ammo and for a lot less money. In time, you may expand your reloading knowledge and do some of the extra steps to fine tune accuracy, but to be honest, they don't make that much of a difference unless you are competing.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LW, the Berger 140 with H4350 was not steller in my rifle either it DID show potential with 46.8 4831SC. My testing has been on hold waiting for replacement rifle from EO, looks to have a bad chamber but in typical EO stlye taken care of immediatly will be back in the saddle next week. The 139 and 43.5 also showed potential in my rifle so going to work with that and 140 Berger's. I just received a box of 140 Berger VLD's and will give them a go should be able to jam and fit mag. Will get info on S bush size for Lapua to you I run Redding dies and .002 NT, will also get OAL on my 140 B match. Like I said like you I'm not seeing anything great with H4350 and B 140's but the ticket looks to be 4831SC.

Redding S bush size Lapua brass .002 NT .293. OAL 140 Berger mag lenght 2.915", with 139 Scenar's 2.905".</div></div>

Thanks for the info, Mark. When I get my rifle back I'll try the Bergers with H4831 and see if that works any better.

Do you think the load development we've done will still hold true on the new rifles? I would sure hate to have to start all over again. Between loading and actual range time, I must have 30 hours of work into this by now, not to mention a fair bit of cash spent on bullets, brass and powder.

Also, are you sure of your bushing size for Lapua brass? I measured several loaded rounds at the neck and they all came in at exactly .288". I also use .002" NT which is why I ordered a .286" bushing. We are .007" apart on our measurements. That makes me a bit uneasy. </div></div>

Yes I'm pretty sure load development not in vain. Rifle shot lights out so do not expect any improvement in accuracy but would sure take. Yep pulled and looked at bushing size before I posted yesterday. Will check bushing again and brass thickness tomorrow but say 0.030" total neck + 0.264" bullet = 0.294 </div></div>

I just checked and yes using .293 bushing, something is wrong if your loaded measuerment is .288 with lapua brass. I don't have ball mic like FB I use a caliper to measure inside and since legs are off set may be where .001 difference comes into play FB runs a .291 bushing me a .293. He run's .003 NT me .002 also may be different lot of brass. Been doing this for a long time and if makes sense mine sure FEEL like .002 NT.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Hey Mark. Figured out my calipers are off by .005". They're an old pair of cheap Lyman calipers. I ordered a set of high qulity calipers. All my measurements have been .005 too small.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Mark. Figured out my calipers are off by .005". They're an old pair of cheap Lyman calipers. I ordered a set of high qulity calipers. All my measurements have been .005 too small. </div></div>

Indeed they were, .288 made no sense. 0.005 at least I bet when you get new and compare against old will be closer to 0.006 off. I checked loaded with two different quality instruments dead on 0.294 with both. Not sure exactly why my 0.293 is giving me 0.002 NT maybe because I use steel bushing and lube neck.

 

[brokenbutterfly]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Hmmm. I have serial #120 and I thought I was in the clear because I couldn't see any groove marks by shining a light and feeling around the chamber. Up until recently, I was firing virgin Lapua brass but I just FL sized my first batch for a reload and sure enough, my brass looks identical to the picture that Mark has posted. There is one wide shiny ring right after the shoulder followed by a few thin rings. I guess maybe I didn't check the right spot in the chamber?

Another phenomenon I've been observing is that I've been getting very faint ejector groove marks on my brass, hard to see on a lot of them and this is happening at starting loads. So far, changing components haven't made this go away and in the absence of any other pressure signs, I've kind of been ignoring it.

Has anyone else with a higher numbered serial # sent their rifle back?

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brokenbutterfly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmm. I have serial #120 and I thought I was in the clear because I couldn't see any groove marks by shining a light and feeling around the chamber. Up until recently, I was firing virgin Lapua brass but I just FL sized my first batch for a reload and sure enough, my brass looks identical to the picture that Mark has posted. There is one wide shiny ring right after the shoulder followed by a few thin rings. I guess maybe I didn't check the right spot in the chamber?

Another phenomenon I've been observing is that I've been getting very faint ejector groove marks on my brass, hard to see on a lot of them and this is happening at starting loads. So far, changing components haven't made this go away and in the absence of any other pressure signs, I've kind of been ignoring it.

Has anyone else with a higher numbered serial # sent their rifle back? </div></div>

I also saw some very faint ejector marks, but didn't consider it an issue. I tested some pretty hot loads (2900 fps with 142 smk), and even at that level, I didn't see anything more than very faint marks. I had no primer cratering either. Only indidcation I got of high pressure was a hard bolt lift and some loose primer pockets.

If your brass is coming out of the sizing die with rings, then you probably have the same issue Mark and I did. The ridges in my chamber could easily be felt by sliding the end of a cocktail straw along the chamber wall. The rings are at the top 3/4" of the chamber.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Did some testing today with H4831. I used two different bullets; 140gr Berger LR and 142gr SMK. All groups are 5 shots. Used virgin lapua brass.

140 Berger: Tried 3 different charges; 46.5, 47.0 and 47.5.
-46.5 did ok (.747" with a flyer, .429" w/o flyer). Velocity was 2830 fps.

The two higher loads did poorly, especially 47.5. This bullet does not seem to like being pushed hard. May try again with a lighter charge, but this bullet seems like it may be more trouble to dial in then it's worth considering the excellent results and flexibilty I am seeing with other bullets.

142 SMK: Tried the same 3 charges I used for the Bergers and got much better results.
-46.5 grouped .612" with a flyer and .311" w/o flyer. Velocity was 2825 fps.
-47.0 grouped .510" with one flyer, .309" w/o flyer. Velocity was 2868 fps.
-47.5 grouped .352". Four shots measured .240". Velocity was 2880.
The SMKs seem to prefer H4831 over H4350. Very accurate and consistent with pretty much any charge I throw in there.

Velocities were higher than I saw before with same loads. Previous test was with Remington brass. Lapua seems to get more velocity with the same powder charge. I've heard they have lower case volume than remington due to the thicker brass. This could be the explanation.

I saw no signs of high pressure with any of the loads tested.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Brown truck just dropped off replacement so I'm back in the saddle again.

 

[cowlickkid]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Great news Mark. Be sure to let us know your serial range and how the chamber looks.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fireball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great news Mark. Be sure to let us know your serial range and how the chamber looks. </div></div>

FB new serial # is 87 chamber looks good. I fired a few so I could check brass it was fine and no problem on resize, I'm GTG.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

EO called me earlier today to tell me my replacement shipped out today. Should have it by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Only been gone a few days and already I miss it, lol.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EO called me earlier today to tell me my replacement shipped out today. Should have it by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Only been gone a few days and already I miss it, lol. </div></div>

Good LW, during lull getting new gave me a chance to load some new brews come Monday will be ready for the range. I did note throat of new so close to same of old I'm treating as same.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Well I found my load today, actually 2. Tested at 200 in lieu of usual 300 because I could see 1" orange sticky clearly. This new rifle is a shooter 2 loads of 12 tested went 1/4" MOA @ 200. One a 139 Scenar load the other 140 Berger VLD, both loads repeated 1/4" 5 shot group. Will get data posted when I sort out tomorrow. I thought my 308 TRG shot well and it does but this one is amazing.

 

[DGRex]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Mark, I'm all ears. About to load my Berger 140 VLD's this week. Am interested in what powder/load, COAL, and any MV data you can share.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mark, I'm all ears. About to load my Berger 140 VLD's this week. Am interested in what powder/load, COAL, and any MV data you can share. </div></div>

43.5 H4350, Wolf primer, Lapua brass. I followed Berger's advice on loading their VLD's but in lieu of loading 6 of each I loaded 10ea. and went in .030" incretments in lieu of .040" they recommend. All length's are in my TRG using a Hornaday comparator with 5-26 insert so lengths will look odd if you do not have. Load 10 .010" into lands, in my rifle it was 3.290", loaded 10 .030" off that initial 3.290", 10 .060" off and 10 .090" off. My accurate load was 3.260" .030" off. The others were in the 1 MOA area and true to Bergers's statement "One out of these 4 will out perform the other 3 by a considerable margin" Berger also say's once you find sweet spot tweak + or - .002"-.005". I don't have my chrono data sorted yet but all were running 2800 FPS+ and none showed any over pressure signs. I do remember SD was 9 and thinking need to go to Fed primers this was first time I tried Wolf primers in anything. The longest fit magazine no problem.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Good info, Mark. I was loading pretty much everything .010 off the lands, but I will give your test method a try and see what happens.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good info, Mark. I was loading pretty much everything .010 off the lands, but I will give your test method a try and see what happens. </div></div>

Here is original bulletin LW, per post I modified.


http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/

 

[Friar]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Got mine today and if the weather permits I'll have it at the range tomorrow. Will try to post a pic of it and will follow up with the results from my hand-loads.

[img:center]

[/img]

 

[DGRex]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Decided to clean my new 260 ahead of shooting it for the first time tomorrow. 20 patches later, and 3 cycles of J-B paste, I'm still seeing signs of copper. What's up with that? Anyone else experience this level of fouling?

 

[hgr2]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Shot my first 1k match with mine about a month ago, 60 rds for score and several sighters. I came in 2nd to last but I was lookin good with my Tan TRG 260. After the match this thing was clean as a hounds tooth with 3 wet patches and a couple dry ones.

 

[DGRex]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

hgr2, that's more like it. The fouling I'm seeing is in the TRG right out of the box! Now, I hear Sako test fires these rifles, but??? After some Sweets, letting the bore sit overnight with Hoppes BR9, and 3 passes this AM with a brass bore brush, it's looking better. My intent is not to derail the primary topic of loads for this rifle, but this is the forum of new TRG 260 owners,so where better to ask. I'm inclined to take this up with Jason or Alex.

 

[hgr2]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I agree, there is something not right with what you are describing. I cleaned this rifle before I ever shot it then did a pretty thorough break in. Every cleaning since then has gotten much easier. Hope you get it resolved soon.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Decided to clean my new 260 ahead of shooting it for the first time tomorrow. 20 patches later, and 3 cycles of J-B paste, I'm still seeing signs of copper. What's up with that? Anyone else experience this level of fouling? </div></div>

My two were pretty fouled when arrived. It took me about 20+ patches of Butch's Bore shine and 45 minutes initial, After 100+ round 1'st session it was still shooting great and cleaned quickly. From now on will only clean when accuracy falls off.

 

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Went to the range today with some Varget loaded 139 Scenars... not to bad.

I will post info later. I did not crono them.

Mike

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

My<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Decided to clean my new 260 ahead of shooting it for the first time tomorrow. 20 patches later, and 3 cycles of J-B paste, I'm still seeing signs of copper. What's up with that? Anyone else experience this level of fouling?</div></div>

My first TRG had only a small amount of fouling when I got it, but my replacement one was very dirty and had a significant amount of copper. Took 3 rounds of Wipe-out to get it clean. They do test fire at the factory, but I'm a bit surprised they don't clean them at all before shipping. I will be shooting it for the first time tomorrow.

My first TRG was bit of a copper magnet. I'm hoping this one will be a little smoother, but from what I saw when I cleaned it, I'm not too hopeful.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I broke in my replacement TRG today and I am happy and relieved to report that it is even better than my first one. The action is smoother, the trigger is even better (which I didn't think could be possible), it is at least as accurate (and probably even more so) and even more consistent. To top it off, it's serial #100. Gotta love that.

I tried Mark S' recipe of 140gr Berger VLDs and 43.5gr H4350 set .030 off the lands and it did quite well. Shot two 5 shot groups and both were in the mid .3s. Then I shot another 5 shot group set .007 off the lands (this is as close as I can get to the lands with this bullet and still fit in the magazine) and it also shot in the mid .3s. Berger VLDs are supposed to be very depth sensitive, but I didn't see that here. I may do some additional testing on this later.

I then shot four 5 shot groups of 139 Scenars (also 43.5gr H4350), each set to a different length. Here are the results:
*.005 off lands - .620"
*.015 off lands - .727"
*.020 off lands - .547"
*.030 off lands - .323"

It seems the Scenars are more sensitive to depth than the Bergers and .030 was definitely the sweet spot.

I didn't chronograph today, but both of these loads have shot in the mid to upper 2800s in hot weather with Lapua brass before. Might be worth mentioning that it was pretty windy today, about 10 to 15 mph at full value. Makes the results even more rewarding.

 

[DGRex]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Thanks for the comments about fouling. I'm surprised that Sako sends some (all?) of these rifles out as crudded up as they seem to be. I shot 22 rnds through mine yesterday for the first time with various loads of RE-17 and Berger 140 VLDs. Like Lakeway's, copper seems to have an affinity for my barrel and removal continues to be a pain.

Some results: (all rounds used new Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers, RE-17 powder, touching lands at 2.991 COAL)

42.0 gns, 6 rounds
Vavg: 2712 FPS
ES: 16
SD: 6
8 rounds into a .370 group (only chronoed 6 rnds)

42.5 gns, 5 rounds
Vavg 2742 FPS
ES: 33
SD: 12
Best group at .240"

43.0 gns, 5 rnds
Vavg 2779 FPS
ES: 48
SD: 17
Group opened up to .87"

This rifle can shoot groups, but my velocities are well below those predicted by QuickLoad (QL projects 2854 FPS with 42.0 gn RE-17) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with that.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the comments about fouling. I'm surprised that Sako sends some (all?) of these rifles out as crudded up as they seem to be. I shot 22 rnds through mine yesterday for the first time with various loads of RE-17 and Berger 140 VLDs. Like Lakeway's, copper seems to have an affinity for my barrel and removal continues to be a pain.

Some results: (all rounds used new Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers, RE-17 powder, touching lands at 2.991 COAL)

Nice shooting!

I have a small amount or RE17 on hand, but probably only enough to load 10 rounds or so. I'm out of Berger VLDs at the moment but I will try it with some 139 Scenars and see what velocity I get. Might be able to get to the range this afternoon.

42.0 gns, 6 rounds
Vavg: 2712 FPS
ES: 16
SD: 6
8 rounds into a .370 group (only chronoed 6 rnds)

42.5 gns, 5 rounds
Vavg 2742 FPS
ES: 33
SD: 12
Best group at .240"

43.0 gns, 5 rnds
Vavg 2779 FPS
ES: 48
SD: 17
Group opened up to .87"

This rifle can shoot groups, but my velocities are well below those predicted by QuickLoad (QL projects 2854 FPS with 42.0 gn RE-17) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with that. </div></div>

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the comments about fouling. I'm surprised that Sako sends some (all?) of these rifles out as crudded up as they seem to be. I shot 22 rnds through mine yesterday for the first time with various loads of RE-17 and Berger 140 VLDs. Like Lakeway's, copper seems to have an affinity for my barrel and removal continues to be a pain.

Some results: (all rounds used new Lapua brass, Fed 210M primers, RE-17 powder, touching lands at 2.991 COAL)

42.0 gns, 6 rounds
Vavg: 2712 FPS
ES: 16
SD: 6
8 rounds into a .370 group (only chronoed 6 rnds)

42.5 gns, 5 rounds
Vavg 2742 FPS
ES: 33
SD: 12
Best group at .240"

43.0 gns, 5 rnds
Vavg 2779 FPS
ES: 48
SD: 17
Group opened up to .87"

This rifle can shoot groups, but my velocities are well below those predicted by QuickLoad (QL projects 2854 FPS with 42.0 gn RE-17) and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with that. </div></div>

I managed to get 30 rounds out of the little bit of RL17 I had on hand. However, I was out of Berger VLDs, so I used 139 Scenars. Previous testing has shown me that Scenars tend to run at slightly higher velocity given the same load. I set all rounds at .030 off the lands since this worked so well yesterday with H4350. I used the same three loads as 2 Taps and fired two 5 round groups each. Brass was once fired Lapua, FL resized and CCI 200 primers.

Conditions were 90 degrees, winds 10 to 15 at full value. Here are the results.
-42.0 gr. 1st group .519", 2nd group .761", Average of .640"
Avg vel=2726 fps, ES=61, SD=19
-42.5 gr. 1st group .630", 2ng group .523", Average of .575"
Avg vel=2812 fps, ES=54, SD=17
-43.0 gr. 1st group .445", 2nd group .610", Average of .528"
Avg vel=2877, ES=100, SD=29

It's hard to draw a direct comparison to 2 Tap's testing since I used a different bullet and seating depth, so here are my own thoughts: Velocity was good and I had no signs of high pressure. Felt recoil with RL17 is much sharper than H4350 or H4831 at the same velocities. Accuracy was only mediocre. ES and SD were not impressive. I see no real reason to use RL17 over H4350 or H4831 in my TRG. I can get just as much velocity out of the other two powders I have been using with better accuracy, better consistency and less recoil. After this test, it is easy to see why very few people use RL17 for the .260 Remington.

 

[Friar]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I've shot six 5-shot groups thus far. The load was the same for all. 43 gr. of H4350, CCI BR2, 142 gr SMK with new Lapua brass. OAL was 2.887. I have been putting 3 to 4 in the same hole then 1 or 2 out. I know that once I get used to it that I will be able to improve on it. I posted 2 pics below. One was the first group when fired through a cleaned bore when I went back to the range this afternoon. The first shot was almost an inch away then the other 4 were in the same hole. The other pic is 4 in the same with 1 that I "yipped" out.
[img:center][/img]
[img:center][/img]

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Nice shooting! Getting all 5 in the same hole is a bitch, but this rifle can definitely do it.

I suck with the whole picture thing, but if this works, here is my first target board with my replacement TRG-260.

All are 5 shot groups and all were loaded with 43.5gr of H4350. First 3 are Berger 140 VLDs, the rest were 139gr Scenars. I was experimenting with different seating depths.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting! Getting all 5 in the same hole is a bitch, but this rifle can definitely do it.

I suck with the whole picture thing, but if this works, here is my first target board with my replacement TRG-260.

All are 5 shot groups and all were loaded with 43.5gr of H4350. First 3 are Berger 140 VLDs, the rest were 139gr Scenars. I was experimenting with different seating depths.</div></div>

One more try.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Friar, I tried to get 142 SMK's to shoot in my 260 and gave up. In my case good but not great. I'm concentrating on 139 Scenar's and Berger 140 VLD's. Both showing real promise at 200 last outing will take them to 300 maybe 600 next go. Also done with Varget, VV150 and RL 17. H4831 has showed promise so have not ruled that out. So far it's been H4350 that has shined.

LW looking good, your getting there fast.

 

[Friar]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

My club has a level range that goes out to 300 yards. I'm going to roll some more of the same loads and run a few groups at 300 and see how they do. I've only shot at 100 yards so far. I have some H4831 but as good as the groups are with the H4350 I'm going to stick with it for the time being.

 

[DGRex]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Nice work, Lakeway, and nice shooting; 10-15 will certainly push them around a little, even at 100 yards. It's remarkable, with fundamentally just a (minor?) change in bullet and jump distance, how much difference shows up in velocity, ES, and SD. Your points about RE-17 vs H4350 and H4831 are well taken and I do have some H4350 I will now try.

In my research of 260 loads, I was struck by several reports of very impressive velocities using RE17. For example, Zak Smith wrote in 2009:

"In the end, neither of these new upstart cartridges did anything for me that the .260 didn't. With the new Reloder 17 powder, I am now launching the 139gr Scenar at just over 2900 fps from my 26" Rock Creek barrel. Some of my associates are shooting a load using this powder at 2980 fps; however, the large firing pin hole in my AI-AW does not allow this." (http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=5)

So when I didn't break 2800 FPS with 43 gr. of RE17, a substantial load, I was surprised and puzzled. I'm curious (stubborn) enough to try this again with 139 Scenars and CCI primers. If there is 2900+ FPS out there, I want to find it.

Thanks again for your experimental work and opinions.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2 Taps</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work, Lakeway, and nice shooting; 10-15 will certainly push them around a little, even at 100 yards. It's remarkable, with fundamentally just a (minor?) change in bullet and jump distance, how much difference shows up in velocity, ES, and SD. Your points about RE-17 vs H4350 and H4831 are well taken and I do have some H4350 I will now try.

In my research of 260 loads, I was struck by several reports of very impressive velocities using RE17. For example, Zak Smith wrote in 2009:

"In the end, neither of these new upstart cartridges did anything for me that the .260 didn't. With the new Reloder 17 powder, I am now launching the 139gr Scenar at just over 2900 fps from my 26" Rock Creek barrel. Some of my associates are shooting a load using this powder at 2980 fps; however, the large firing pin hole in my AI-AW does not allow this." (http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=5)

So when I didn't break 2800 FPS with 43 gr. of RE17, a substantial load, I was surprised and puzzled. I'm curious (stubborn) enough to try this again with 139 Scenars and CCI primers. If there is 2900+ FPS out there, I want to find it.

Thanks again for your experimental work and opinions.
</div></div>

I have tried RL17 in three different cartridges, .260, 6mm Rem and 25 wssm. Only in the 25 wssm did I see significantly improved velocities over other powders (as much as 400 fps faster). Accuracy with RL17 is usually good, but never great in any of the cartridges I have tested with it.

I did get a couple rounds at over 2900 fps with the 260 and was not seeing any high pressure signs, so it is probably possible to get consistent 2900+ out of this powder in our rifles. But to me, it's not worth the extra wear and tear on barrels and brass, especially when the accuracy is not that great.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

I tried the Berger 140 LRs a while back and was not impressed with the results. I decided to give them one more shot in my new TRG.

This is a very long bullet and the ogive is far back. I was jumping them .032 and even there, the OAL was well beyond mag length. I suupose I could seat them deeper, but I don't like setting the bullet that deep into the case.

Anyway, I did get somewhat better results this time. I loaded five sets of five rounds, all H4350. Results as follows:
- 41.0 gr .535", cold clean bore. 2615 fps
- 41.5 gr .497", 2651 fps
- 42.0 gr .887" with an uncalled flyer. Other 4 grouped .456" 2691 fps
- 42.5 gr .401", 2698 fps. Best of the bunch.
- 43.0 gr .588", 2738 fps

I could probably keep playing around with these and tighten them up a bit more, but I don't see the point. I'm getting better accuracy, velocity and consistency from other bullets (that I can load to mag length) that are much less finicky. I have a box of 100 left (still factory sealed) that I am going to sell. If interested, look in the "for sale" forum.

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Down to final bullet powder elimination. So far at 600 43 grains of H4350 and the 139 Scenar looks like it's going to be the winner. It shot 4 5 shot groups 1/2 MOA or under. The 140 Berger VLD load that looked promising at 200 and 300 fell apart at 600. Now trying Berger 130 VLD's and if they don't cut it it's going to be the 139 Scenar H4350 combo and end of testing.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Down to final bullet powder elimination. So far at 600 34 grains of H4350 and the 139 Scenar looks like it's going to be the winner. It shot 4 5 shot groups 1/2 MOA or under. The 140 Berger VLD load that looked promising at 200 and 300 fell apart at 600. Now trying Berger 130 VLD's and if they don't cut it it's going to be the 139 Scenar H4350 combo and end of testing.</div></div>

34 grains of H-4350?? Is that a typo?

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lakeway</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Down to final bullet powder elimination. So far at 600 34 grains of H4350 and the 139 Scenar looks like it's going to be the winner. It shot 4 5 shot groups 1/2 MOA or under. The 140 Berger VLD load that looked promising at 200 and 300 fell apart at 600. Now trying Berger 130 VLD's and if they don't cut it it's going to be the 139 Scenar H4350 combo and end of testing.</div></div>

34 grains of H-4350?? Is that a typo? </div></div>

It is indeed, it is 43, will edit.

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Down to final bullet powder elimination. So far at 600 43 grains of H4350 and the 139 Scenar looks like it's going to be the winner. It shot 4 5 shot groups 1/2 MOA or under. The 140 Berger VLD load that looked promising at 200 and 300 fell apart at 600. Now trying Berger 130 VLD's and if they don't cut it it's going to be the 139 Scenar H4350 combo and end of testing.</div></div>

For now, 43.5gr H4350 and 139 Scenar are my 600yd round. You mentioned not having good results with with 142 SMKs. I have done very well with those, especially with H4831. I plan to do some more testing. It would be nice if I can get them to consistently hang with the Scenars since they cost so much less.

I also was doing well with the Berger 140 VLDs at 100yds but have not had a chance to test them at long range. You said they "fell apart" at 600yds. Could you be more specific?

 

[shoepop]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

The 139 and 43 has been more consistant at all ranges 200-600 so far. The 140 VLD was great at 200 and 300 but opened up "fell apart" at 600. It went from 1/2 MOA out to 300 to 3/4++ @ 600, the 139 remained a solid 1/2 all the way. I will take it to 1000 next week and have some 140's left so will give them a go also. I wish I could get 142 SMK's to hang with the Scenar but no luck with 4831, 4250, Varget or RL 17.

 

[iplumb]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

Well, had s great day today at the range with my trg. Was looking for the best scenar h4350 load i could find. Nothing shot bad. Best load was 42.5 - .261 avg for two five round groups. About 2700 fps.
Mike

 

[supratt96]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iplumb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, had s great day today at the range with my trg. Was looking for the best scenar h4350 load i could find. Nothing shot bad. Best load was 42.5 - .261 avg for two five round groups. About 2700 fps.
Mike
</div></div>

Very nice! Seems just about and charge of h4350 from 41.0 to 43.5 works well in our rifles with Scenars.

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: TRG-22 in .260 Rem loads

My TRG/260 arrived just before I left on an extended business trip.....so I'm keeping busy ordering reloadingcomponets......anyone tried 140 gr AMAX's yet?