Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I don't see any indications of a rough chamber on that brass. The linear scratch in the neck is pretty common and nothing to worry about.

Off the the club myself. A different kind of club.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Well, looks like the correct gas tube is installed...shouldn't be any issues there. Be careful when putting the gas block back on...I'm assuming the DPMS barrel has dimples for the set screws that should position it correctly, but some gas blocks are still designed to accommodate the handguard cap thickness and so they need a gap between the barrel shoulder and aft surface of the gas block. Since you have a caliper handy it's easy to verify locations. Like I said, probably not an issue with this barrel but something to keep in mind for builds down the road to make sure the gas block is properly aligned on barrels w/o location features.

Lastly, and this is another long shot, have you pulled the bolt out of the carrier to make sure the gas rings and whatnot are not damaged, missing, etc? You already stated that the carrier key screws are tight so that's the last thing on the bolt group I'd check.

Since you have the correct buffer, gas tube, gas block alignment, stock screw (well, not protruding and hitting the buffer at least), etc...hopefully the new action spring will solve this issue.

If that doesn't do it, hopefully you know what tests to run to verify if the gun is undergassed and you need to open the gas port.

Good luck!
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.Maim</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Todd629</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr. Maim,
Same gun here, had same problem. Try,as already suggested, to see if it locks back when magazine is empty. Mine didn't lock back most of the time so I tried an extra power buffer spring for the standard AR15, it takes a few less pounds pull to lock the bolt than your stock LR308 spring. Problem went away and I don't think any harm has been done to any other parts. Good Luck! </div></div>

Do you know where you got the spring and who makes it (a link if you have a moment to find it). Do you mean one like an Advanced Technology or a Wolff? </div></div>

Mr. Maim
Sorry to take so long to get back, you have been very busy troubleshooting. Hopefully DPMS can get you the correct spring and it will fix the problem. Just found my spring label and notes.
I replaced my stock DPMS spring with a Wolff extra power for AR-15. Wolff part number 16500, my notes state that it seems about 1# weaker than stock DPMS LR-308 and 4# stronger than stock AR-15.
Best wishes
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Petey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lastly, and this is another long shot, have you pulled the bolt out of the carrier to make sure the gas rings and whatnot are not damaged, missing, etc? You already stated that the carrier key screws are tight so that's the last thing on the bolt group I'd check.
</div></div>

The gas rings are in great shape, and the bolt is very tight in the carrier. Working as if it was still brand new. Needs more oil I think. Good point thanks for suggesting!


Well, I'll be cleaning everything tomorrow. In the meantime I just orderd a new Troy low profile gas block, a new carbine length DPMS gas tube, gas tube roll pin, and most importantly a DPMS Rifle Length LR-308 Buffer Spring. Tossed in a Vltor BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 Large charging handle for good measure.
smile.gif
That'll be a week before it arrives and I'm out on business for a week. I'll report back once I'm back.


Thanks again fellas. I appreciate it greatly!
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Todd629</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mr. Maim
Sorry to take so long to get back, you have been very busy troubleshooting. Hopefully DPMS can get you the correct spring and it will fix the problem. Just found my spring label and notes.
I replaced my stock DPMS spring with a Wolff extra power for AR-15. Wolff part number 16500, my notes state that it seems about 1# weaker than stock DPMS LR-308 and 4# stronger than stock AR-15.
Best wishes </div></div>

Todd629: not a problem. Part number noted. If my replacement spring doesn't do the trick, I'll look into the Wolff spring. Thanks!
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Quick update:

My parts order came in today and the most notable is the replacement DPMS LR-308 spring.

My old spring = 44 coils
New factory spring = 38 coils

Petey, your picture below nailed it. I definately had a 5.56 buffer spring. Former owner shot suppressed so I wonder if that was why...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Petey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I snapped a photo of a DPMS 308 buffer/spring next to a DPMS 5.56mm buffer/spring. Let us know if somehow a 5.56mm buffer got in there and is causing short stroking. You can see the length difference in the photo.

2ui96hf.jpg


ETA: Obviously, these are rifle buffers/springs. Hopefully you don't have a carbine system in the PRS stock. </div></div>

I also got a new gas tube, gas block, and gas tube roll pin. Everything goes back together tommorow and I'll take it out on Saturday and report back here.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Regarding the brass, my DPMS leaves similar marks on the brass though the scratch isn't quite as long as the one in your pictures and begins below the mouth of the case.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

2 things - foreign ammo + extractor. Under pressure ammo does this more often than not. Also, if a extractor upgrade has been done & it is doing this, you should quit saving all that $ on buying foreign ammo. Most of those guys are not exactly our friends. Just had 2 dangerous jams come into the shop that were ammo related. It does sound like a extractor skip during the firing cycle though + crap ammo....Larry
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lawrence</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2 things - foreign ammo + extractor. Under pressure ammo does this more often than not. Also, if a extractor upgrade has been done & it is doing this, you should quit saving all that $ on buying foreign ammo. Most of those guys are not exactly our friends. Just had 2 dangerous jams come into the shop that were ammo related. It does sound like a extractor skip during the firing cycle though + crap ammo....Larry </div></div>

ALL of my ammo has names on it like Winchester (white box), Winchester (Super-X), Federal (American Eagle), PMC (Bronze), and Remington (Corelokt). The brass pictured above is Winchester white box and Federal American Eagle.

I'm not sure what the basis of your assumptions are, or why you're telling me "you should quit saving all that $ on buying foreign ammo".

Thanks for your input Larry.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding the brass, my DPMS leaves similar marks on the brass though the scratch isn't quite as long as the one in your pictures and begins below the mouth of the case. </div></div>

What do you think is causing it? I find it odd. Especially the little dent on the throat that matches the scratch.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I'm not sure. I suspect it is dragging across the feed ramps when chambering the round. I don't see how it could get the little ding on the shoulder during extraction but I've not ruled that out.

I've been meaning to try some pmags to rule out it being a magazine related issue. In my case it has been more of a cosmetic issue as the rifle functions fine. Over the long haul it likely has an impact on the life of the brass.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Well, just got back from the range. After six rounds, it does it every round. Will not lock back after last round fired. It is definately a feed issue, but not when charging or releasing a locked back bolt so the bolt carrier is not cycling all the way back.

Here are the steps I have performed:

- Cleaned the hell out of the bore and chamber with a red ScotchBrite pad cut into a triangle shape, then rotated with a drill using a cleaning rod piece locked in the drill's chuck, with a cleaning rod patch "puller" with the top of the loop cut off to make a fork.

- Cleaned the barrel. Cleaned the upper receiver. Cleaned the bolt, bolt carrier, and all related parts.

- Replaced buffer spring with brand new DPMS rifle-length spring. Replacement spring DOES have a different rate than my previous one.

- Replaced factory gas block with Troy low-pro gas block. Mounted correctly, I am 100% SURE OF CORRECT ALIGNMENT.

- Replaced factory gas tube with new DPMS gas tube. Replaced gas block roll pin as well.

- Replaced trigger group with Geissele Super Dynamic-Enhanced trigger (this wasn't for troubleshooting purposes, it was on the agenda anyhow) so the trigger and hammer springs are good.

- Replaced charging handle with BCM Gunfighter Mod.3 handle (this also wasn't for troubleshooting purposes, but what a great handle!)

Met SH user "Basher" and his buddy at the range. We discussed several possibilities including correctly supporting the rifle solidly so the action can cycle properly (this is my first .308 so I have to plead ignorance on the nuances of it's functionality, apologies for the NOOB-ishness of some of this) so I tried that and had the same result.


Basher's buddy and other members that have posted in this thread have come to the same conclusion: is absolutely must be that the gas port hole in the barrel is undersized, and unless there is something else I have overlooked, I can't see there being anything else to blame.

Opinions?

I'm probably going to take it to Accuracy Speaks (if you shoot in Arizona you know who they are) next week.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but with a round in the chamber and an empty magazine seated, will the bolt lock back after the shot?
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Main,
At this point, I am just about out of ideas...but one more occurred to me. Have you checked to ensure there is no obstruction in the gas key?

On the gas port size, I will see what I can dig up, but I have read somewhere before what size it is supposed to be in a DPMS 308. If we can find that, you can at least check what size your is now before you decide to open it up.

Edit: Have not found a technical reference on the gas port size, but have read several posts from others who suggest their factory DPMS gas port is in the .088-.093 range. .089 is 43 guage. .093 is 42 guage.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I own the same rifle and switched to a PRS myself. This rifle would do the same thing as yours. What i found is that the bolt must run very wet. How I fgured this out is when I would take the bolt apart to clean I noticed that when I would put it together and install it the bolt would move more freely. after i would fire the gun several times it would begin to short cycle and not eject the rounds as it should. When I would take the bolt apart I noticed it was very stiff. It took me a long to figure out the problem and I even switched out all of my magazines.
I now run my bolt very wet and even have put 100 rounds through it no cleaning to prove it worked. Try running your bolt very wet to see if this has any affect. It worked for me and as some have told me once I get enough rounds through the rifle. The bolt will loosen up and not be so tight.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Same rifle,same problems.I have to run it sloppy wet. It don't hurt anything except the action will collect dirt and powder residue more quickly. Clean it often and pour the lube to it. That may not fix your problem but it don't cost anything to try it.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

MrMaim,

If your bolt is not locking back after round fired, that means you dont have enough gas being sent back to the BCG.

It sounds to me after reading this post that you have/had two (2) distinct issues;
1. Incorrect buffer spring
2. Undersized gas hole.

Since you have rectified the problem of the incorrect buffer spring, your next step is to get the gas port opened up. This should fix your problems.

I had a similar issue with my DPMS, but it turned out that i had bought a stock with an AR-15 buffer spring. Switching to the LR-308 spring fixed the problem.

The other things you did seem more like upgrades to me.

I bet if you dril open the gas port, your problems will go away.

For the record, cleaning the rifle, running it wet, while good ideas are NOT fixes for fundamental operating issues. I run my rifle to about 1500rds before cleaning(about when my groups open up) by this time, the BCG is bone dry, and full of powder residue.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Petey: No bolt lockback after last round fired. We discussed that earlier in the thread.
smile.gif


bowslngr: You sir, are a wealth of knowledge and a great asset to this community! Thank you for the measurements. I'll check those when I return home next week. I think the rifle is going to a gunsmith no matter what.

MRattpack & Agustus: Thanks fellas, I run all my rifles very wet. I actually drenched the bolt and shot it. Cycled properly three times, then same problem. So, it's not cycling forcibly enough.


Tx_Flyboy: I don't mean to sound like a dick, but you literally repeated back everything I just posted in my post above. I know it was an incorrect spring. I know the gas port is the issue. I know several of the recent changes were upgrades and not troubleshooting... I said all that in my post.

What I take issue with is your terribly wrong, reckless, and potentially dangerous advice. EVERYBODY knows that the DPMS LR-308 should be run clean and well oiled. Any firearm benefits from being oiled. I'll pass on your advice. Good day sir.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Mr Main,

when u get a chance, you should do a search on here about how long ppl go before cleaning their guns...you will find that most ppl are "dangerous, stupid or whatever adjective you deem appropriate for not being anal about cleaning your rifles religiously...

nevertheless i wish u well with ur issues...
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Not sure of this will help. But the gun in your post is not a DPMS LR308B. The LR308B has a carbine length gas system. Your rifle has a rifle length gas system. So if it is infact a 308B it has been modded.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

One parting comment:

A buddy of mine was having function problems with a brand new 5.56mm DPMS upper this winter. We did the usual function checks and it was doing pretty much what yours exhibits. At any rate, we checked the bolt and bolt carrier assembly (good gas rings, key screws tight, no obstructions of foreign objects, etc) but everything looked good. Everything on the rifle looked right and correct, but we ended up swapping a different bolt group into the gun and it fixed everything; function is now 100%. I'm guessing something was out of spec on the either the bolt or bolt carrier and lead to some binding issues.

I know this doesn't help much other than perhaps you might want to see if DPMS will offer up their gas port diameter so you can see if your barrel is in spec before you go drilling it. Just a thought, although opening the port will likely work just fine. I thought I'd share the story in case you wanted to give it all some more thought.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I sent the rifle off to DPMS and they received it today. When I find out what the issue was, I'll post it up.


Thanks everyone!

Mr.Maim
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Well, I got the rifle back in timely manner, well boxed and shipped back, which I am happy about. DPMS' way that they work with stuff like this is that you send in your rifle, it is worked on by a gunsmith who writes what they do and includes that repair form along with the rifle when returned. Here is what my repair form says, word for word:

Diagnosed Malfunction: "Failing to feed. Short stroking. The inside bore of the buffer tube was too shallow and not allowing the carrier to move freely to the rear."

Repairs Performed: "Replaced the buffer tube."

Ammo Used / Amount: "Remington (40)"

How is that even possible? I have a Magpul stock which uses a rifle length buffer tube which is what I had installed. There is indeed a brand new tube on the rifle (it arrived late today) but I don't get how the rifle would have even worked at all. It's the most bizarre thing I have ever seen. I won't get range time until this weekend so I will remain puzzled until then.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

It came on the rifle as I purchased used from the original owner. I can't imagine that it never worked for him... maybe it didn't.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.Maim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It came on the rifle as I purchased used from the original owner. I can't imagine that it never worked for him... maybe it didn't.
</div></div>

No telling how it happened though. Take it out. Shoot it. If problem is resolved, feel good about it.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Glad you got it sorted. Just to add my experience to your brass concerns, my LR308 leaves identical scratches on the case necks, and small dings in the shoulders as well. I've run over 400 rounds of FGMM 175s through it, and nearly all of them show this. I catch my brass, so it doesn't even hit the ground. I think we can put the 'Cheap Russian Ammo Conspiracy Theory" to rest. It's the feed ramps.
Chamber a round with new brass from the mag, and then eject it without firing (safely), and you'll see the same scratches. You can do the same thing with a thin coat of grease on the necks and you should be able to see where the grease collects on the feed ramps. Lipstick is even easier to see. If you do this, DO NOT fire the weapon until you clean the goop out of the chamber.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TenZero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad you got it sorted. Just to add my experience to your brass concerns, my LR308 leaves identical scratches on the case necks, and small dings in the shoulders as well. I've run over 400 rounds of FGMM 175s through it, and nearly all of them show this. I catch my brass, so it doesn't even hit the ground. I think we can put the 'Cheap Russian Ammo Conspiracy Theory" to rest. It's the feed ramps.
Chamber a round with new brass from the mag, and then eject it without firing (safely), and you'll see the same scratches. You can do the same thing with a thin coat of grease on the necks and you should be able to see where the grease collects on the feed ramps. Lipstick is even easier to see. If you do this, DO NOT fire the weapon until you clean the goop out of the chamber. </div></div>

Thanks TenZero that is good to know, and some good troubleshooting tips for future issues if I need them.

Going out shooting tomorrow to see if the initial problem is resolved...
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Been a week since I was onlne... getting busy.

Well, DPMS's troubleshooting step of replacing the buffer tube did absolutely NOTHING to resolve my issue.

As (SH user) RossAZ is my witness, the rifle did not cycle the first round. Kept not pulling the next round leaving an empty chamber (leaving gouges in the case where the bolt lugs scraped the brass) and just generally did the exact same thing as before.

Tried both 147gr. Winchester white box FMJ-BT and some 168gr. Prvi Partizan PPU Match FMJ-BT.

The best string I could get with the 147gr. before a jam or no-feed was two.

The best string I could get with the 168gr. before a jam or no-feed was three.

I gave up after 18 rounds. Frustrating as hell.
-------------------------------------------------
So I called DPMS. Talked to their tech support. The person I spoke with found it odd that the gun smith replaced the buffer tube as a troubleshooting step considering the issue, but he had to (understanbably) toe the company line, and said that there had to have been something that the smith saw that made him take that step.

So, I sent it back to DPMS again this morning, this time on their dime, thankfully with a note asking them to check the barrel gas port.

I just don't know how the gunsmith got of a claimed 40 rounds in this thing unless he was shooting... I have no idea... 190 grain?
-----------------------------------------------------

Just wanted to keep those who helped so much with troubleshooting this rifle a status report.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I had the same problems with mine. I ended up buying P-mag and polishing the chamber and so far have not had any problems. I used the chamber brush with turtle wax rubbing compond on it. Chucked it up in my drill and rand it wide open and moveing it in and out for about 5 min. Then put cleaning patches around it and did it again. The chamber wasn't nicked or scratched but after i polished it it looks like a mirror. I thing mags and chambers are alot of these guns problems
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr.Maim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Well, DPMS's troubleshooting step of replacing the buffer tube did absolutely NOTHING to resolve my issue.

As (SH user) BASHER is my witness, the rifle did not cycle the first round. Kept not pulling the next round leaving an empty chamber (leaving gouges in the case where the bolt lugs scraped the brass) and just generally did the exact same thing as before.

So I called DPMS. Talked to their tech support. The person I spoke with found it odd that the gun smith replaced the buffer tube as a troubleshooting step considering the issue, but he had to (understanbably) toe the company line, and said that there had to have been something that the smith saw that made him take that step.

So, I sent it back to DPMS again this morning, this time on their dime, thankfully with a note asking them to check the barrel gas port.

I just don't know how the gunsmith got of a claimed 40 rounds.</div></div>
It sucks that the fix didn't work but it is at least encouraging that the smith who looked at your rifle didn't go to the immediate brute force fix of opening the gas port.
It's entirely possible that your buffer tube showed undue wear isolated on one side of the interior that lead him to change it, however while a contributing factor that alone should never cause a short stroke. It's actually probable that the other spring was just rubbing the he'll out of the tube as they overcompressed during the cycle. So again not suprising it didn't fix your short stroke.
With the correct buffer and spring, new gas tube and block, and a well lubricated bolt there's really only one answer left...more gas. A conclusion others in this thread at least skirted near long ago, with fitting skeptisicm. Admittedly you could actually run a lighter spring, but if you have the correct spring then you ask for other problems.
There are alternatives, but I feel about them the way I feel about holistic medicine and macrobiotics. Meh.
You could have your bolt polished and nickel plated which supposedly improves function and reduces the lubrication necessary. Same same with microslick although I defiantly feel that micro slick at least serves a purpose.
I saw a mention but no follow up, doesn't mean I didn't miss it, about a trigger. I would make the wild eyed assumption that a competent gun smith at DPMS would have noted trigger binding, but I'll throw it in the running regardless.
The last one, try UMC ammo if you haven't already. I didn't see it on your list, but again sometimes I miss things in longer threads. I'm pretty sure they were on sale, or at least reasonable at Sportsmans Warehouse last week. I'd virtually guarantee that's what the smith used. Although wit your selection of ammo, again I doubt this is symptomatic.
TL-DR you need more juice...probably.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Grimm, thanks for the reply.

The smith not taking the brute approach first, is one way I would not have looked at his troubleshooting step, and you make a good point. Incremental steps until you have to take out the BIG HAMMER to fix a problem. That makes me feel a little less PO'd about the waste of time.

You're right, the buffer tube was likely scraped up from the previous spring. I included all my troubleshooting steps and parts replaced along with the rifile when I sent it in. I wonder if it was even read.

The 'smith used "Remington" as stated on the work order form. No idea what line or what grain.

All other suggestions are taken, thank you, but I don't think I should have to do anything to get a rifle to simply cycle more than three rounds. It should just f-ing work.

Rifle is still at DPMS right now. I'll post again when I get it back.


In the meantime, I have other new toys to play with...
smile.gif
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Sorry your DPMS is not yet functioning properly; I was hoping I would get to the end of these 9 pages and read about a successful resolution because my wife's JP Rifles LRP-02 is exhibiting the exact same symptoms as your DPMS rifle! The bolt on her LRP-02 also seems to be short stroking, and the next round is either not being chambered or the bolt is slamming into the side of the case as it is angled up the feed ramps partially into the chamber; sometimes the bolt locks back, and sometimes it does not.

But at least the responses in this thread have yielded some clues and new things for me to further inspect/try before we head to the range again this coming Sunday afternoon... GA Precision already slightly opened up the gas port on her rifle, but we will eventually replace the existing gas block with a better JPGS-8 adjustable version from JP Rifles and a new unmodified (unradiused) extractor. Based on the recommendations in this thread, now I will also measure the buffer length, the recoil spring (length and number of coils), ensure the carrier key is properly staked and not obstructed, check the gas ring(s), check the buttstock screw in the Magpul PRS stock and lubricate the hell out of the bolt carrier each and every time we fire the rifle! Later when I replace the gas block and ensure proper placement and alignment thereof, I will also polish the chamber, measure the gas port size (0.089/43 gauge - 0.093/42 gauge) and check the inside of the receiver extension/buffer tube for binding or misalignment.

Her rifle now has a Krieger barrel recently installed by Gene Williams and/or S&S Precision in Argyle, Texas (still trying to get to the bottom of who exactly did the work), so I can also make sure it has the proper length gas tube for the barrel extension {<span style="font-style: italic">as Petey pointed out on the first page of this thread, Krieger likely drilled the gas port in the Armalite position, so I need to check whether Gene Williams and/or S&S Precision in Argyle, Texas, used the proper Armalite gas tube and/or the proper Armalite barrel extension rather than a DPMS barrel extension for this particular Krieger barrel to ensure the gas tube/bolt carrier key interface is correct</span>}
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

May be late to the thread, but I recently fixed my AP4 failure to feed issue. It was the usual failure to lock back and feed. No amount of adjusting the JP gas block had any effect.

I took off the adjustable JP gas block, which was well centered. Out of curiosity about the port size, tried several drills to see that it was .063". I found elsewhere that would put it on the small end of the scale for a 16" barrel. Of interest was the drill would not go into the bore, some burr or other was blocking it. I shoved the drill through the obstruction with little effort. To make sure the port was clear, passed the next size drill through to clean it up, .067". Took it out yesterday, and it locks back like a champ, and feeds perfectly now. Ended up with the gas block 1.5 turns out. 0.5 turn would not lock back, 1 turn had a failure to eject. 1.5 runs like a champ. Brass lands in a 2' circle.

Tried it all the way from 4 turns out (full open) down to the 0.5, and other than the cycling, it all felt the same.

May not be your problem, but I have read so many posts about AP4 feeding issues, got to wonder if they had a bad batch of barrels where the gas port did not get drilled completely, leaving an obstruction and blocking gas flow.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

Mr. Maim,

I can't wait to see how this turns out, my lr308 (bought new in Houston) is doing the exact same thing. I really appreciate the legwork on this one and it'll nice to know wheter or not to bother with DPMS or send it to a good smith.

And to all the rest of you really taking time to help out. Spot the fuck on, you guys are great. It's one of the main reasons I still visit the forum, 'cuz there are nasty little keyboard commandos out there.

Thanks again,
Breeze
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Melick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...my wife's JP Rifles LRP-02 is exhibiting the exact same symptoms as your DPMS rifle! The bolt on her LRP-02 also seems to be short stroking, and the next round is either not being chambered or the bolt is slamming into the side of the case as it is angled up the feed ramps partially into the chamber; sometimes the bolt locks back, and sometimes it does not.</div></div>

Yes indeed. You have described the issue to a "T", except my bolt has never locked back.

I'll post back up when I get the rifle back. Hopefully this time out fixes it.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 900inch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May be late to the thread, but I recently fixed my AP4 failure to feed issue. It was the usual failure to lock back and feed. No amount of adjusting the JP gas block had any effect.

I took off the adjustable JP gas block, which was well centered. Out of curiosity about the port size, tried several drills to see that it was .063". I found elsewhere that would put it on the small end of the scale for a 16" barrel. Of interest was the drill would not go into the bore, some burr or other was blocking it. I shoved the drill through the obstruction with little effort. To make sure the port was clear, passed the next size drill through to clean it up, .067". Took it out yesterday, and it locks back like a champ, and feeds perfectly now. Ended up with the gas block 1.5 turns out. 0.5 turn would not lock back, 1 turn had a failure to eject. 1.5 runs like a champ. Brass lands in a 2' circle.

Tried it all the way from 4 turns out (full open) down to the 0.5, and other than the cycling, it all felt the same.

May not be your problem, but I have read so many posts about AP4 feeding issues, got to wonder if they had a bad batch of barrels where the gas port did not get drilled completely, leaving an obstruction and blocking gas flow. </div></div>

Good to know and thanks for posting! I have a suppressor in the plan for this rifle and am interested in adjustable gas blocks. Is the JP model the only one for .308 out there? I know that Noveske makes the switchblock but it appears to only be for 5.56 cal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Southbreeze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't wait to see how this turns out, my lr308 (bought new in Houston) is doing the exact same thing. I really appreciate the legwork on this one and it'll nice to know wheter or not to bother with DPMS or send it to a good smith.

And to all the rest of you really taking time to help out. Spot the fuck on, you guys are great. It's one of the main reasons I still visit the forum, 'cuz there are nasty little keyboard commandos out there.</div></div>

I agree, you should wait. If it comes back a second time unresolved, then I'll know to take it someplace local, and you should too. I'm hoping for the best!


...and I agree that the people on Sniper's Hide have been the most knowledgable and helpful people I have ever encountered on any forum. Thanks everyone!
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

Gas blocks are gas blocks as far as I know, no .308 or .223, just match up to barrel diameter. The port hole in the GB was a lot bigger than the barrel, I remember when I measured it.

All it is, is a set screw that blocks off the port in the GB. All need adjustment, and I suspect that is where the caliber will alter things. I was surprised there was little difference in the feel of cycling. But then the 16" barrel lets out such a blast that it sort of overrides every thing else going on.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

Im going to go way out on a limb here since you mentioned it had an A2 that was switched to a PRS. When you swap those stocks the A2 has a little extender piece that the PRS does not use. Meaning you CAN NOT use the A2 screw with the PRS, its too long. I've heard very few occasions of buffers not getting full travel from impacting that longer screw. If the smith swapped the tube, but just re-installed with the same hardware not the shorter PRS screw the problem would persist. Like i said its a long shot, but might be worth a look if it comes back still acting up.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 900inch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gas blocks are gas blocks as far as I know, no .308 or .223, just match up to barrel diameter. The port hole in the GB was a lot bigger than the barrel, I remember when I measured it.

All it is, is a set screw that blocks off the port in the GB. All need adjustment, and I suspect that is where the caliber will alter things. I was surprised there was little difference in the feel of cycling. But then the 16" barrel lets out such a blast that it sort of overrides every thing else going on. </div></div>

I just cheked again. The Noveske Switchblocks are specific to the caliber and barrel length 556 or 6.8, at least that is how Noveske does it.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=140

I'll probably mount one in either case when I get the suppressor, just something more to tinker with.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338FedAr10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im going to go way out on a limb here since you mentioned it had an A2 that was switched to a PRS. When you swap those stocks the A2 has a little extender piece that the PRS does not use. Meaning you CAN NOT use the A2 screw with the PRS, its too long. I've heard very few occasions of buffers not getting full travel from impacting that longer screw. If the smith swapped the tube, but just re-installed with the same hardware not the shorter PRS screw the problem would persist. Like i said its a long shot, but might be worth a look if it comes back still acting up. </div></div>

Yep, checked that. It was suggested back on page one.
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This thread has grown much larger than I had ever expected it would.
frown.gif


Good point about the smith possibly swapping the stock screw. I mark my screws with a white paint marker so I can see if they are backing out (buffer tube, optic mount screws, allen bolts on FF handguard, etc.) with a quick visual check. Same screw came back after the buffer tube was replaced.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

Sounds like it's short stroking, Check the gas block alignment/ make sure you have proper diameter gas block hole and it's not turned down or sized for a suppressor. Also make sure if your hand loading that your not using powder on the low end of the scale, it's a DI weapon. It needs gas flow to properly cycle.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308B

I had a Saiga 762x39 do the same thing. Sent it back and they said it had a burr on the feed ramp causing what you said on page one. Had a fried with a 22 pistol same thing I told him to take a drumel thing or whatever you call it and polish the feed ramp. Week later he shot it with no problems at all. Hope this helps.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

I purchased an LR .308 with 24 inch fluted on September 17, 2012. After much anticipation, it arrived first week of March 2012. I upgraded to upper with forward assist. Took it out and put 40 rounds of .308 Remington and Federal...the cheaper stuff for the break in. I only used factory ammo no reloads. After the second round... failure to feed. I had five failure to feed issues on the first day.

On all 40 rounds I had the exact same markings on the necks of my casings. I too had the little divot mark just below the neck. I noticed that the marks are only on the extractor side and are parallel to each other.

First 25 rounds were single loads in DPMS factory mags. 7 times out of the first 25 rounds the bolt failed to catch and stay open.

Came home cleaned gun and thinking they were break in issues.

Second time out today. Same thing as first time out but include a couple of jams were the bolt is sitting on top of the round jammed on extractor side feed ramp.

Purchased gun through gun dealer. Gun going back to DPMS on Monday.

I hope they figure yours out first so that I don't have to go through everything you already have.

.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .308ing</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On all 40 rounds I had the exact same markings on the necks of my casings. I too had the little divot mark just below the neck. I noticed that the marks are only on the extractor side and are parallel to each other. </div></div>Elsewhere on this site are instruction on how to clean up the bolt and extension to be easier on brass. I believe the nicks and such you see are from the brass popping sideways from the ejector pressure into the barrel lugs, and then getting dragged along.

The article I mentioned shows which lugs to polish off the sharp corners. I attempted to do this with my 16" barrel still on the receiver, and it was very tough to get in there. Was easy on my uninstalled 18.5" barrel, will see how it does when I get to firing it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second time out today. Same thing as first time out but include a couple of jams were the bolt is sitting on top of the round jammed on extractor side feed ramp.</div></div>I am new at this sort of trouble shooting, but that sounds like the bolt may not have cycled to the rear far enough (goes back to the failure to lock open issue). If you are using factory steel magazines, could be the infamous DPMS magazine flaw.

Few years back, I found an article on modifying the feed lips to correct this. Essentially, the cartridges are sitting a bit to low. I reformed the lips on all my mags and they cycle perfectly.

Of course, buying Magpul magazines sidesteps this whole thing.
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

Well, you bought a new factory assembled rifle, let them fix it. Do yourself a favor and become familiar with the parts to see what they do.

I built mine from parts, and being a born tinkerer with mechanical things, it was a fun thing to fix. Thank God for the net though, all the info is there if you can filter through it.

Now if I can just fix the failure to ignite NATO primers without going back to the creep of the stock hammer springs..........
 
Re: Troubleshooting Failure to Feed on a DPMS LR-308

I returned home last week from a long business trip and called DPMS who was holding my rifle because I could not have it shipped to a different address (even though this is the second time they are shipping it to me) while I was away, to have them send it. Arrived an hour ago.

I'll be GODDAMNED.

On the F-ING repair form is says NOTHING other than "Test Fired 100 rnbds with zero failures"

Does not list the date, the RMA number, the ammo used, any information about the rifle or the gunsmith. Excuse my language but WHAT THE FUCK?!? How it the hell am I supposed to know what their "gunsmith" shot if they can't even be bothered to spend 30 seconds to write more information on the f-ing form?

I'm taking this rifle to the range first thing in the morning and am going to see if the exact same thing happens as every other time I have taken it to the range: FTF, FTF, FTF, FTF, FTF.


<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">I am so fucking furious with this company right now...</span></span>