That name rings a bell....but the primary guy I dealt with on it was Flanagan. Title was commander at the ordnance testing facility (OTF). If I recall correctly the purchase order came thru MARCOSYSCOM.
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U.S. Army/Navy/USMC M14-based sniper and DMR/SDM rifles circa late-1960s to late 201Xs
- Thread starter Random Guy
- Start date
After several years.....it's done. "Real" parts, built by the correct people. All NOS/Exc. TRW parts, correct Krieger 1-11 heavy.
Marty,
Now you need to shoot it alongside your MK11 with the same ammo. Inquiring minds would like to know the results. It only happened if there are pictures. Thanks.
Wait- you guys shoot your stuff? I'm only here to flex on Instagram lol
That looks great(!), esp the hand-painted matching handguard. Glad you found a cheek piece for that stock too(!)...that's was likely a tough one. I call those Washington state-built rifles as the "final" M25 type rifles used by the US Army soldiers, circa 2004-2007/8? I think only 36 were made.
Fwiw, I recently had my old school replica XM25 completed with an early McMillan (attached pic #1). This represents a ‘late 1980s' era XM25/M25 as used by 10th SFG. While on the subject, used my other 'old school' Navy replica M14 sniper at a vintage match at Quantico last month (pic #2). Shot a 145-4x at 300 yards with 10 second target exposures. For untimed fire at 600 yards, score was a 172-2x (Note: the X-ring was 3", so at 600 yds it was a 1/2 MOA x-ring). Not great scores, but it's been a solid year since the last match there, and two years since I last used this rifle, so I was a bit rusty, but it was fun.
Hope to try my new XM25 replica at the next match in 2023.
Fwiw, I recently had my old school replica XM25 completed with an early McMillan (attached pic #1). This represents a ‘late 1980s' era XM25/M25 as used by 10th SFG. While on the subject, used my other 'old school' Navy replica M14 sniper at a vintage match at Quantico last month (pic #2). Shot a 145-4x at 300 yards with 10 second target exposures. For untimed fire at 600 yards, score was a 172-2x (Note: the X-ring was 3", so at 600 yds it was a 1/2 MOA x-ring). Not great scores, but it's been a solid year since the last match there, and two years since I last used this rifle, so I was a bit rusty, but it was fun.
Hope to try my new XM25 replica at the next match in 2023.
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That's an F-class target @Random Guy . Yeah, we use all the stuff, but small targets is small targets.
Yea, it's not too bad at 300 yds with a 3" x-ring, but the same target is also used at 600 yards, which makes it challenging with vintage rifles that typically have oldish 8x, 3-9x, 10x or maybe a 3-12x scope... Hence any x-ring hits at 600 yards with vintage precision rifles are impressive, IMO.
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Trained on the M-14 and then the M-16. I could hit targets consistently 300+ with the 14. I distinctly remember thinking in passing, " Boy, I bet this would make a nice sniper rifle in the hands of somebody who knew what they were doing." Sure enough!!
Marines from EOD Detachment, 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit and Navy EOD Detachment, Mobile Unit 11, and French Explosives Ordnance Disposal personnel participate in a joint 3 day operation in Djibouti. The operation consisted of equipment familiarization, scenario-driven events, small-arms live fire, and a demolition range:
Marines from EOD Detachment, 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit and Navy EOD Detachment, Mobile Unit 11, and French Explosives Ordnance Disposal personnel participate in a joint 3 day operation in Djibouti. The operation consisted of equipment familiarization, scenario-driven events, small-arms live fire, and a demolition range:
I spy a schmidt...also is it just me or is that a shizz ton of eye relief?
I think it's based on stock length-of-pull going from conventional stock to pistol grip. Eye relief / distance-to-eyeball is bound to change.
Is that a single-lug SA M1A? Looks like the A.R.M.S. #18 split rail mount also. Interesting.Polish Special Forces loadout, Iraq 2003:
Interesting, I didn’t know that Poland had some M14s in their inventory (Estonia, yes, Lithuanian, yes, and recently in Ukriane too, but I have never seen a Polish solider with an M14…interesting).
This is not a sniper rifle, so apologizes for the digression, but it's definitely a vintage build. Reportedly about six obscure prototype "M14 Modified" or "M14 (M)" were tested circa 1959-60/61 as squad automatic rifle to replace the old Browning BARs, but it seems only the USMC used this configuration in the early 1960s, but it doesn't appear that was formally adopted by the US Army. (The later M14E2/M14A1 with revised stock and muzzle stabilizer was adopted as the squad automatic weapon circa 1963-66):
"COMFIRMATORY TEST OF PRODUCTION MODEL RIFLE, 7.62MM, M14," 23 October 1959, (USAIB). Excerpt:
"...a. Evaluation and service tests of a number of different type rifles including the Rifles, 7.62mm, T44E4, and T44E5 were conducted by this Board in 1956 (ref 2 and 3, Annex D). These tests revealed that in general the T44 rifle system was more suitable for Army use than the other types tested. In May 1957 the T44E4 and T44E5 rifles were adopted by DA as the standard, rifle and automatic rifle respectively. The T44 was standardized as the M14 and the T44E5 was standardized as the M15 rifle. The test rifle is the production model M14 rifle modified to correct previously reported deficiencies. In 1959 this Board determined that the M14 rifle with a hinged butt plate, slotted handguard, and detachable bipod was suitable as an automatic rifle and recommended that it replace the M15 rifle (ref 6, Annex D)."
This diagram is presumably circa late 1959 or perhaps 1960.
Photo is undated, but I would guess 1960 or maybe 61.
I acquired the early M2 bipod (without the front swivel), so I did a quick mock-up of the prototype M14 squad automatic that was supposed to replace the Browning BAR rifle...but by 1960-61 it was determined that the 'M14 modified' was not accurate or controllable enough in full-auto mode, so that resulted in the development of the pistol-grip M14E2/M14A1 stock circa 1962-63.
The six prototype M14 M or M14 Modified rifles were the first rifle to use the hinged buttplate, and ventilated fiberglass handguards.
Random shot of the early M2 bipod that lacked a front sling swivel. (Probably made either very late 1959 or sometime in 1960):
Random contribution to this thread. (I hope to post pics of my retro T44E4 prototype sniper rifle over this winter, once the mount gets finished)
"COMFIRMATORY TEST OF PRODUCTION MODEL RIFLE, 7.62MM, M14," 23 October 1959, (USAIB). Excerpt:
"...a. Evaluation and service tests of a number of different type rifles including the Rifles, 7.62mm, T44E4, and T44E5 were conducted by this Board in 1956 (ref 2 and 3, Annex D). These tests revealed that in general the T44 rifle system was more suitable for Army use than the other types tested. In May 1957 the T44E4 and T44E5 rifles were adopted by DA as the standard, rifle and automatic rifle respectively. The T44 was standardized as the M14 and the T44E5 was standardized as the M15 rifle. The test rifle is the production model M14 rifle modified to correct previously reported deficiencies. In 1959 this Board determined that the M14 rifle with a hinged butt plate, slotted handguard, and detachable bipod was suitable as an automatic rifle and recommended that it replace the M15 rifle (ref 6, Annex D)."
This diagram is presumably circa late 1959 or perhaps 1960.
Photo is undated, but I would guess 1960 or maybe 61.
I acquired the early M2 bipod (without the front swivel), so I did a quick mock-up of the prototype M14 squad automatic that was supposed to replace the Browning BAR rifle...but by 1960-61 it was determined that the 'M14 modified' was not accurate or controllable enough in full-auto mode, so that resulted in the development of the pistol-grip M14E2/M14A1 stock circa 1962-63.
The six prototype M14 M or M14 Modified rifles were the first rifle to use the hinged buttplate, and ventilated fiberglass handguards.
Random shot of the early M2 bipod that lacked a front sling swivel. (Probably made either very late 1959 or sometime in 1960):
Random contribution to this thread. (I hope to post pics of my retro T44E4 prototype sniper rifle over this winter, once the mount gets finished)
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The rifle pictured has no selector or connector rod. So technically not a US M14.
Story behind pics #2 & #3?
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
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I did a google search of those two images, here's what it found
Pic #2 is Afghanistan in 2005:
BAGRAM AIR FIELD, AFGHANISTAN
03.04.2005
Photo by Capt. Catie Hague
DVIDS Hub
Subscribe62
050225-F-9999-003 BAGRAM AIRFIELD, Afghanistan: Kandahar eight-man pararescue team hones its combat skills at the Tarnak Range.
Pic #3 is a Philippian solider, probably taken 2017ish?
Photos - Armed Forces Of The Philippines Photos
^^ Looks like a couple of pounds of "make my day" leaving the second FA50 ;) Someones going to have a headache :eek:
www.militaryimages.net
Looks like I'm not quite done with 14 builds just yet.
That's gorgeous! By far my favorite stock... can't wait to see what you do with it!!
DW
Not entirely sure yet. It was a USMC stock so maybe do a Match rifle.
Or do an M25 of sorts.
I'm currently trying to nail down a Krieger tube. Rest is easy.
Or do an M25 of sorts.
I'm currently trying to nail down a Krieger tube. Rest is easy.
USMC Match rifle! It's been a dream rifle for me for years now... all I have gathered so far is the sticker for the stock 
DW
DW
OK, now you have to build it!
I should have known you already had a sticker... and I thought I was going to be able to help you out
DW
Is that stock inlet setup for a rear lugged receiver?
Kind of looks that way, but maybe it’s just the way the picture is taken.
Carried one on my 2nd tour 08-09 Iraq.
Got the EBRs for number 3 11-12 Afghan wasn’t a fan
Tours 4 and 5 didn’t have any DM rifles we were in army limbo I guess…….. we got some cool new pistols……….
Unit got 110A1’s shortly after we redeployed in 20
Got the EBRs for number 3 11-12 Afghan wasn’t a fan
Tours 4 and 5 didn’t have any DM rifles we were in army limbo I guess…….. we got some cool new pistols……….
Unit got 110A1’s shortly after we redeployed in 20
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Where was this ? We replaced y’all in 11.
Looks like a little north of Farah? Masow area?
Lol no shit man that's Balenday couple clicks west of Chin Farsi in Pushterod! But yes north of Farah
Yeah we were over in Mu Shan zu. Ash alock AO on the MARSOC compound. Straight west. Little sporting out that way
Bro you were living like a king of you were at the marsoc opYeah we were over in Mu Shan zu. Ash alock AO on the MARSOC compound. Straight west. Little sporting out that way
. I spent most of my time alternating at the dhq in Chin Farsi/Afghani or up at Dukin. I'll hit you up on pm
Since you already have a nice M25, I'd go with a replica USMC match rifle. A guy in AZ might have a proper barrel, but he'll likely want to build it too. He finished this double-lugged match rifle for me a couple of years ago. It came out very well. (He even spot-welded the faux selector lock as a detail).
Fwiw, he can weld-on a rear lug, or front and rear lugs, either way is fine, just more money and effort to bed a double-lug rifle.
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That's the USMC double lugs there. Real PITA to get the oprod spring guide in/out from what I remember. I'd like to find someone who does the Crane double lugs. Either arrangement makes it pretty easy to return to near-zero after a deep cleaning (like after shooting in the rain).
The same guy in AZ (aka 'Forceman') built this exact replica of a Navy double lug with the Crane-style front lug..
Here's the Navy/Crane style front lug....the only guy that I know who does this is in AZ. Just an fyi if interested.
Front lug in an original Navy match stock....it's quite unique.
Since their are a lot of pics of the SAGE-chassis-based M14s on this thread, here's an interesting one. I understand from Crane that the first 20 SAGE-based M14s fielded were Bronze-anodized rifles used by the US Army Rapid Equipping Force. Despite the caption calling it a Mk 14 Mod 0, its technically more of a prototype variant with the full-length forend - which pre-dated the shorter EBRs that were Navy Seal Grey.
As far as I can tell, this bronze chassis was likely the first SAGE EBR chassis system provided by Crane to an active/deployed US military unit. So it’s basically the “Alpha M14 EBR”. Below is a sligtly later version, still with the full-length forend, but in Navy SEAL gray.
Picture caption: "Afghanistan-1-b-2-503rd-2a" (Based on the early full length SAGE chassis, I'd guess 2004-05 era, but could be a little later).
As far as I can tell, this bronze chassis was likely the first SAGE EBR chassis system provided by Crane to an active/deployed US military unit. So it’s basically the “Alpha M14 EBR”. Below is a sligtly later version, still with the full-length forend, but in Navy SEAL gray.
Picture caption: "Afghanistan-1-b-2-503rd-2a" (Based on the early full length SAGE chassis, I'd guess 2004-05 era, but could be a little later).
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The guy who welded the lugs onto my M1A back in 1992-ish was at Crane. Now he's the RD&T Director for Proof Research. He's the same guy who developed the heavy lug for the NSW 300WM rifles (pre-MK13)
Brigadier General Jack L. Briggs, Commander 455th Air Expeditionary Wing, fires an M14 enhanced battle rifle during a training mission at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, Sept. 24, 2010. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Christopher Boitz)
