Ukraine war Bullshit.

[LRRPF52]

he was a journalist doing a big scoop. yes,likely a big ratings boost attempt. bringing up the holodor would be like grilling Trump about Stormy Daniels or Obama about Larry Sinclair during an interview. not likely productive. if he is ignorant,as you say,guess he has no access to people who are informed. but,it is good to have someone on here who is knowledgeable about and has access to all the deepest information extant. still haven't said why you think we should be doing what we are doing in Ukraine. and,how spending ?? billions doing whatever it is is a good investment in America's present and future interest and security. my bet is you are unable to cobble together any justification beyond what the Lindsey Graham types spew. you have never said why you think spending 60+ billion on Ukraine is better than spending it here to fix some of the broken stuff we have. in my ignorant view,all that has done is help secure Black Rock's investment there,arm the cartels and hamas,profit our MIC and let Z and his wife and buds buy a lot of expensive toys and homes. hasn't done much for the Ukrainian people who are victims no matter who gets the blame for this mess.

You have gone the binary route, once again. You assume I’m in-favor of how things have been done. This is a continual gross error, so maybe I’m not being clear enough or you’re overlooking/not reading exactly what I’ve said.

I’m firmly with Trump on deterrence or ending it quickly. He kept Putin deterred by showing strength like no other US President has ever shown Russia. Reagan was the closest distant 2nd place, but Russia was falling apart internally way before Reagan even ran in ’76.

Tucker has openly stated his ignorance very recently, where he genuinely thought the people surrounding him were basically good, decent people that might have different views. He has been, or at least claims to have been way behind the power curve on understanding the workings of American govt. He still does not have a good grasp on that, but has made a lot of progress.

If you are still in the place of thinking I’m in the same camp with Lindsay Graham, you really don’t understand me well at all and are reverting back to that either/or mentality. I’m not sure you’ve ever seen as big of a critic of RINOs as me. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been a State and County delegate actually trying to get rid of as many of them as possible over the last 15 years in my State.

Once again, the US MIC does not need the small-time weapons sent to Ukraine to profit. The existing backlog of FMS to other countries already has manufacturing capacity strained, because Europe has dropped the ball for the past 30-40 years + in that sector. We’ve been sending munitions that were scheduled for destruction/de-miling, that were obsolete by US military standards.

Exceptions to that are the Javelins Trump sent, and some other missiles, but most of the post-2022 missiles were old FMS to NATO countries in Europe who sent their old stock, with new stock already negotiated via FMS to fill their place for the NATO customers.

Most of what we have sent was already paid for 20-30 years ago, so we have only assigned value to those materials. I thought we covered this already?

 

[LRRPF52]

Well, seemingly he is in the same "no clue" category in spite of his post.

I will not spoon-feed in that place, but instead will ask:

What methods would you use to determine the other nations who have the combat power to skull-drag Russia?

Instead of assuming Russia is unbeatable by anyone but the US, look at the details of their main combat power, and how that combat power would be overmatched.

Then look at who has those systems in sufficient quantities to destroy Russian combat power qualitatively.

None of those systems have been used in this war, other than in limited ISR roles by non-belligerents.

 

[LRRPF52]

A lot of you guys need to get educated on the basic fundamentals of all of this, otherwise your opinions aren’t valid.

If it’s something as simple as placing America first, I’m with you, and leave it at that.

But understanding the geopolitics side requires work and a lot of experience.

The problem for the younger guys is they want to be spoon-fed on social media, and Russia does a great job of catering to the childish mentality of easy button explanations. A lot of you have fallen for that and refuse to see it.

Same with Marxism: "Capitalists bad, workers good." Class division is the result so a dictator can take over.

If you don’t even know the basic geography of the world or this region, then your political theory ideas have no almost no merit.

It’s like trying to jump into advanced ballistics with trajectory, BCs, wind compensation, LRFs, without even knowing how to set up a rifle or apply the fundamentals. Young guys want to run when they still are in diapers.

Social media offers you what looks like a cheat code, but you’re only cheating yourselves.

 

[theLBC]

A lot of you guys need to get educated on the basic fundamentals of all of this, otherwise your opinions aren’t valid.

If it’s something as simple as placing America first, I’m with you, and leave it at that.

But understanding the geopolitics side requires work and a lot of experience.

The problem for the younger guys is they want to be spoon-fed on social media, and Russia does a great job of catering to the childish mentality of easy button explanations. A lot of you have fallen for that and refuse to see it.

Same with Marxism: "Capitalists bad, workers good." Class division is the result so a dictator can take over.

If you don’t even know the basic geography of the world or this region, then your political theory ideas have no almost no merit.

It’s like trying to jump into advanced ballistics with trajectory, BCs, wind compensation, LRFs, without even knowing how to set up a rifle or apply the fundamentals. Young guys want to run when they still are in diapers.

Social media offers you what looks like a cheat code, but you’re only cheating yourselves.

good point. i only needed one photo to choose a side.

 

[232593]

another point that seems important to me. IF you think that Macgregor's talk with Tucker contains the truth,IMHO this matters.
he claims that there are a large # of Muslim soviet citizens fighting with Russia,mostly Turk ethnicity and Chechnyian. he says about 20K KIA.
this is remarkable if true. nasty wars in 90s between Russia and Chechnya. Russia essentially won them but took some big hits. i sem to remember that that big terrot attack in Moscow was done by the Chechnyans i bet they incorporated many lessons into their doctrine. if Putin has repaired
relations with them,that gives the big lie to any talk of lack of popular support for Putin by the people. that they are willing to fight and die under Russian command as Russians,looks even worse for anyone trying to destabilize it. BTW those wars were by Yeltsin not Putin.
repeating stuff but i think restarting mil aid was areal bad idea. cut off all aid and it ends fast,which would meet the goal of saving Uke lives. obviously not my or anyone else's call.

I listened to that. 1.2 million Ukrainian casualties??? Come on. Where is he getting those numbers from??? And if you look at the normal casualty projection rates for offense vs defense that would put the Russian #s at a level that would have inflicted serious social unrest inside Russia.

 

[Terry Cross]

A lot of you guys need to get educated on the basic fundamentals of all of this, otherwise your opinions aren’t valid.

. . . . but of course, yours are valid?

If it’s something as simple as placing America first, I’m with you, and leave it at that.
But understanding the geopolitics side requires work and a lot of experience.

. . . . . and you are blindly assuming quite a lot. For instance the background and experience of some in this audience.

The problem for the younger guys is they want to be spoon-fed on social media, and Russia does a great job of catering to the childish mentality of easy button explanations. A lot of you have fallen for that and refuse to see it.

again, you are assuming the age of others engaging you and you are wrongly assuming that the opinions of those debating you are formed from the fountain of social media.

If someone differs in opinion with you, by default they have obviously fallen for manipulated propaganda and refuse to see it?

Same with Marxism: "Capitalists bad, workers good." Class division is the result so a dictator can take over.

If you don’t even know the basic geography of the world or this region, then your political theory ideas have no almost no merit.

It’s like trying to jump into advanced ballistics with trajectory, BCs, wind compensation, LRFs, without even knowing how to set up a rifle or apply the fundamentals. Young guys want to run when they still are in diapers.

Social media offers you what looks like a cheat code, but you’re only cheating yourselves.

Your mental masturbation is getting the forum a bit sticky.

 

[Terry Cross]

I listened to that. 1.2 million Ukrainian casualties??? Come on. Where is he getting those numbers from??? And if you look at the normal casualty projection rates for offense vs defense that would put the Russian #s at a level that would have inflicted serious social unrest inside Russia.

Not trying to jump in front of Mosin or answer for him but a good bit if the numbers were being driven by several indirect metrics. Even a year ago, there were taking satellite imagery of large cemeteries in country that were expanding at a crazy rate. The same way analysts would view two photos of the same area but imaged at different times to document troop movements, logistics build ups and shipyard cycles, they were looking at the expansion of new graves.

They were pointing out such disparities in what was being reported versus the "evidence" over a year ago. The numbers they listed then can now be seen to fit the trajectory leading to those 1.2 million numbers. Normally, I would just throw the bullshit flag but there are so many other obvious differences between what was reported there and reality, I believe that the Russian casualties were vastly over reported while the UKR casualties were vastly altered lower for public consumption.

Even though the Russian ground forces have no doubt suffered a lot of losses, their public support and backing is reported to be quite high. Putin and the governing body there have done a great job of marketing their military to its own people.

 

[theLBC]

maybe we should just believe the people that told us for 20 years that we were winning in afghanistan?

 

[232593]

I believe that the Russian casualties were vastly over reported while the UKR casualties were vastly altered lower for public consumption.

Agree 100% with that.

But 1.2 million for Ukraine ONLY??? I could see that as a total for both sides maybe.

 

[Zoomie]

The mistake many people make is seeing this an “either, or” choice. It isn’t.

The second mistake a lot of people make is underestimating Russia as our foe. If you know even the slightest bit about what is happening on the intelligence front you would reject that as demonstrably false.

Russia has an economy slightly larger than Florida and is heavily dependent on two industries. If you really wanted to squeeze some juice there are better ways to do that, as the current CiNC is showing.

Forget about any pretext or sequence of provocative events. Ask yourself why would Russia’s posture be (in Ukraine and other places) reverting to invasions and mass migrating their citizens into certain geographical regions. It’s a question that largely answer itself IMVHO.

 

[jbrand11]

In the words of one our best FUCK UKRAINE

 

[mosin46]

You have gone the binary route, once again. You assume I’m in-favor of how things have been done. This is a continual gross error, so maybe I’m not being clear enough or you’re overlooking/not reading exactly what I’ve said.

I’m firmly with Trump on deterrence or ending it quickly. He kept Putin deterred by showing strength like no other US President has ever shown Russia. Reagan was the closest distant 2nd place, but Russia was falling apart internally way before Reagan even ran in ’76.

Tucker has openly stated his ignorance very recently, where he genuinely thought the people surrounding him were basically good, decent people that might have different views. He has been, or at least claims to have been way behind the power curve on understanding the workings of American govt. He still does not have a good grasp on that, but has made a lot of progress.

If you are still in the place of thinking I’m in the same camp with Lindsay Graham, you really don’t understand me well at all and are reverting back to that either/or mentality. I’m not sure you’ve ever seen as big of a critic of RINOs as me. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been a State and County delegate actually trying to get rid of as many of them as possible over the last 15 years in my State.

Once again, the US MIC does not need the small-time weapons sent to Ukraine to profit. The existing backlog of FMS to other countries already has manufacturing capacity strained, because Europe has dropped the ball for the past 30-40 years + in that sector. We’ve been sending munitions that were scheduled for destruction/de-miling, that were obsolete by US military standards.

Exceptions to that are the Javelins Trump sent, and some other missiles, but most of the post-2022 missiles were old FMS to NATO countries in Europe who sent their old stock, with new stock already negotiated via FMS to fill their place for the NATO customers.

Most of what we have sent was already paid for 20-30 years ago, so we have only assigned value to those materials. I thought we covered this already?

your claim to omniscience is annoying. read the my 1st sentence. i said IF you believe Macgregor's take and his #s then a lot of what he says follows. if you doubt them,then put yours out there. you still won't commit to an opinion on why we are doing what we are. if you think the reasons are in error,OK. what do you believe the real reasons for our deep state's motivations are? it sounds like you believe that what we have sent re mil gear and ammo were outdated. OK,sounds likely. sending it was not a small $ amount. the intel support,space based targeting are freebies? the cash? the mansions and Bugattis? so,you say that the 60 bil guess is wrong by how much? $1 is too much.
the assertion that Putin didn't go during Trump #1 and waited for Biden to get in is pure conjecture. proof or some evidence for that? if so,then he really blew it starting something when the MIC was in full control of the admin. fact is,what could Trump have done? send bullets? sanctions? a nuc strike? my point is we have no biz sending anything to anywhere in Europe,never have.
agree Uke 1.2 mil KIA seems a stretch. think i saw on MSM somewhere that Rus KIA is 900K. that sounds a bit over blown too. we will never know with any certainty. for the US,it doesn't matter.
if Putin is empire building so what? Stalin did too. didn't last long and keeping it under harsh control didn't work long. take a look at the history of empires. many,esp multi culturals,don't have a great track record. i'll never see any risk to US if that stays out of west.hem. and if we have a strong milit defense in place. as fast as today's world is,i don't see an empire being a good idea or a success. our try for 1 has been a real rat fuck.

 

[Eostech]

I listened to that. 1.2 million Ukrainian casualties??? Come on. Where is he getting those numbers from??? And if you look at the normal casualty projection rates for offense vs defense that would put the Russian #s at a level that would have inflicted serious social unrest inside Russia.

No idea on numbers but offensive vs defensive casualty rates will always be skewed by asymmetry in firepower.

Look at the entire later half of the US efforts in the pacific during WW2, despite mounting continuous attacks on very well fortified positions held by fanatical troops, they never equal let alone exceeded Japanese casualties.

 

[mosin46]

No idea on numbers but offensive vs defensive casualty rates will always be skewed by asymmetry in firepower.

Look at the entire later half of the US efforts in the pacific during WW2, despite mounting continuous attacks on very well fortified positions held by fanatical troops, they never equal let alone exceeded Japanese casualties.

good point. actually reflected in some of Mongol battles,some of Alexanders. but those were often open field fights. seems to apply to German early blitz victories. that could be about maneuver superiority but the Pacific example is right. sieges have a dif setup but often the attacker has had < people.

 

[NoDopes]

Russia is also throwing bombs at a 20-1 ratio or something crazy. Didn't some numbers get accidently released early last year and they were at 800K+? Also, Ukraine is going crazy kidnapping off the streets and feeding them directly to the front lines with minimal training. That's not low causality actions.

Maybe this is all just fake Russia propaganda and Ukraine is actually winning.

 

[theLBC]

since ukrainian tour length is open-ended or indefinite now until the war ends, the videos of men being snatched up on the streets and thrown into vans by military "recruiters" (if true) doesn't look good for the losses on that side either.

 

[375fan]

Lots of low level individuals/servicemen being sacrificed for the MIC and a couple of elites on both side to make a lot of money. The EU and American government are all complicit in this ridiculous war.
IMO the only true war/military intervention that was justifiable by the US since WW2 was Iraq/Kuwait. A coalition was formed, objective was clear and an end result/exit was planned and executed.
I do hope DJT can help end this ridiculous mess, too many lives lost for what? Amazing what age, time and observations does to ones (my) thinking.
Uke can't win this war and the EU and US money/ weapons being sent there is just resulting in unnecessary deaths and a prolonged war.

 

[Edsel]

Maybe this is all just fake Russia propaganda and Ukraine is actually winning.

My thorough evaluation of this highly reiterated talking point strongly supports this analysis.

 

[MK20]

Not trying to jump in front of Mosin or answer for him but a good bit if the numbers were being driven by several indirect metrics. Even a year ago, there were taking satellite imagery of large cemeteries in country that were expanding at a crazy rate. The same way analysts would view two photos of the same area but imaged at different times to document troop movements, logistics build ups and shipyard cycles, they were looking at the expansion of new graves.

They were pointing out such disparities in what was being reported versus the "evidence" over a year ago. The numbers they listed then can now be seen to fit the trajectory leading to those 1.2 million numbers. Normally, I would just throw the bullshit flag but there are so many other obvious differences between what was reported there and reality, I believe that the Russian casualties were vastly over reported while the UKR casualties were vastly altered lower for public consumption.

Even though the Russian ground forces have no doubt suffered a lot of losses, their public support and backing is reported to be quite high. Putin and the governing body there have done a great job of marketing their military to its own people.

I know several things for a fact:

The casualty numbers on both sides are approaching or have passed 1 million. It is hard to track exactly, but on a macro scale it can be determined. The casualty breakdown in this war is 50/50 killed/wounded, as opposed to the historical modern warfare norm of 2/3 wounded, 1/3 killed. This is attributable to the widespread use of drones which enable the more effective implementation of ordnance. Additionally, there is no way to capture wounded troops so they are just killed in situ by more drones to prevent them from getting taken back to care and recovering.

The Ukies are absolutely press ganging people, to include foreigners who are in the country on foreign passports and who should not be subject to conscription. They don't care because if the press gang officers don't meet their quotas then they get sent to the front to die instead.

The munitions expenditure has been absolutely astronomical on both sides and Russia is out expending and out producing the West by a factor of 300 %.