Under loading a 300 win mag

[FrozenRopes]

The Quick Question:
Is it possible to under load a 300 win mag round to get the results of a 308 win round?

Details:
I've been reloading handgun rounds and .223 Rem rounds for years now, and I'm ready to step up to a .308 Win.
I'm thinking long term. At some point I'll want to step up again, say to a 300 win mag. (I don't see myself going past that to 338 LM or 50 BMG, too costly to shoot, but who knows.)

I'm not ready for the recoil of the full .300 Win Mag, and I don't want to have to buy another stock in 2 years after spending $1000+ on one for the .308. If the .300 Win Mag and the .308 were both long actions this wouldn't be an issue.

So could I load a low recoil .300 Win Mag "training" round for now?
Do any of you have any suggested loads for this if it's possible?

 

[doc76251]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

NOT RECOMMENDED!

If you get too much air space in there you can get what is referred to as a "double boom" which is known to blow receivers / barrels wide open. I believe the concept is that the primer blows all the powder forward into the case (and jams the bullet into the lands) and then the powder goes off. The expanding gasses take the path of least resistance and go BACKWARD in the case.

Use lighter bullets in a reduced charge to mitigate full recoil OR get a brake. The 300WM has a short enough barrel life as it is you probably don't want to waste it.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NOT RECOMMENDED!

If you get too much air space in there you can get what is referred to as a "double boom" which is known to blow receivers / barrels wide open. I believe the concept is that the primer blows all the powder forward into the case (and jams the bullet into the lands) and then the powder goes off. The expanding gasses take the path of least resistance and go BACKWARD in the case.</div></div>

So is what you're saying is that there is a MINIMUM charge to reloading? Why don't the books mention this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use lighter bullets in a reduced charge to mitigate full recoil OR get a brake. The 300WM has a short enough barrel life as it is you probably don't want to waste it.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

This is more like I was thinking.
A 110gr bullet at 3200 ft/s from the 300 Win Mag will have comparable recoil to a 175gr at 2600 ft/s from the .308 Win.

Will the lighter bullets extend barrel life at all?

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I think I might have found a compromise with the 7mm Remington Mag.

Recoil between the 308 Win and 300 Win Mag.
Bullet ranges form 100-180gr.
Factory loads from 139gr to 175gr
Bullets with High BCs.
Long Action and will work with a AICS magazine.

This is actually a great round!

 

[jagged77]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

There is a minimum charge weight that's why all reloading manuals state a start and max load. You do not want to spark over the load causing detonation, that would be a bad day out as Doc as already pointed out.

I'd suggest that if you want 308 barrel life and performance you really are better off buying a 308. Recoil can be drastically reduced with shooting the lighter bullets but barrel life is still going to be an issue due to the amount of powder you will need to burn to stop detonation.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

They do, its called minimum recommended powder charge.

I believe that you could use some of the slower burning powders that result in a load density of more than say 80% and make reduced loads. There are some out there that have done it. I have used Trail Boss in a 45-90 with good result as it fills the volume of the case but does not create the pressure. What to use in a 300WM is far beyond anything I want to play with and have no input as to which powder/boolet combination to use. What you are talking about is experimentation with powders not designed for the cartridge you are working with, I would become VERY familiar with a lot of things before attempting it. JMHO, YRMV etc....

IMHO anything that goes over 3000+ fps will reduce barrel life. It's not scientific and I can't back it up with data but it has been my experience that running boolets over 3K in a 30 cal platform will result in a short(er) barrel life, sometimes significantly.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[aloreman]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

h4895 can be safely loaded down to 60 percent of the total max charge weight.

 

[jagged77]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aloreman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">h4895 can be safely loaded down to 60 percent of the total max charge weight. </div></div>

Depending on conditions maybe. Just a word of caution, I have loaded down to the min charge (according to Hodgdons load data) with 155's and 168's and got hangfires. I did not pursue this and quickly came to the conclusion to use the .300WM for its intended purpose and got a .308

 

[Dollman]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

Throw a 1" Decel pad on the ass end of the butt stock. If thats not enough have a timed muzzel brake put on. Barrel life on my 300 WM is around 1100 rounds before the barrel has been shot out.

Buddy of mine put a universal slip on Gel pad on back of his M-77 Ruger in 300 WM and thats all it took to tame the felt recoil down for him.

 

[aloreman]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

that data is from hodgdon. I use it for plinking rounds in 375 h&h

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

If it is just a matter of not buying a new stock, get a 30-06. It can be easily down loaded to 308 velocities, and it is still a long action.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is just a matter of not buying a new stock, get a 30-06. It can be easily down loaded to 308 velocities, and it is still a long action. </div></div>

It's a matter of long action and can use an AICS magazines (300 Win Mag, or 338 LM) and has low recoil. Doesn't look like there's much out there that fits the bill. 7mm Rem Mag seems like a nice compromise.

If there was a 30-06 AICS magazine I would be in heaven.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

You can bend the feed lips in a little and easily run 30-06 in a 300WM AICS mag.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GreatGonzo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can bend the feed lips in a little and easily run 30-06 in a 300WM AICS mag. </div></div>
Really, does anyone do this with success? And what other options are there other than the 30-06 family of cartridges?

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

So it looks like a 270 Winchester would also work. And this round has less recoil than the 308 Win. but would still be in a long action.
Interesting...

 

[targaflorio]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

Buy what you want now, take care of your gear, and sell it when it's time for a change. The Hide is a great place for doing just that.
Btw I went 223 to 308 to 300 win mag. Just haven't sold anything yet!

 

[memyselfi]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

IMHO, using two variants of hodgens powders ( H-1000 and H4831 ) starting at the close to the bottom of the charge weights, the loads were mouse farts throwing 190 and 210 SMK at 308 velocities ( somewhere in the 2735 fps, 2690 fps area) without a recoil pad or brake. I did have seveal consistant groupings with lower charges ( ladder test ). Just not enough thump for a 300WM. <span style="font-style: italic">Like having a 454 big block, with the timing rolled back and a low CFM two barrel carb</span>.

Also as far as 270 goes the one I had (now rebarreled into 308 ) had more recoil shooting 130, 140, and 150's than my 308 shooting 155 and 175's.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

Remington sells "Reduced recoil" Core-lokt ammo and I use it in my hunting 300WM during deer season. It works pretty good and is nice to shoot from a light un-braked gun.

I've tried to use the Hodgdon H4895 Reduced load recipes:

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

But I wasn't getting very good results with it and some of them were slow to ignite. "click . . . bang". I might try again some day with magnum primers but since my accuracy was not that great compared to the Remington Reduced loads and I really don't hunt deer that much - I'm probably just going to stick with the Remington factory stuff.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ropes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NOT RECOMMENDED!

If you get too much air space in there you can get what is referred to as a "double boom" which is known to blow receivers / barrels wide open. I believe the concept is that the primer blows all the powder forward into the case (and jams the bullet into the lands) and then the powder goes off. The expanding gasses take the path of least resistance and go BACKWARD in the case.</div></div>

So is what you're saying is that there is a MINIMUM charge to reloading? Why don't the books mention this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use lighter bullets in a reduced charge to mitigate full recoil OR get a brake. The 300WM has a short enough barrel life as it is you probably don't want to waste it.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

This is more like I was thinking.
A 110gr bullet at 3200 ft/s from the 300 Win Mag will have comparable recoil to a 175gr at 2600 ft/s from the .308 Win.

Will the lighter bullets extend barrel life at all?
</div></div>

Barrel life calculations have many different variables. I have been told that one of those variables is the amount of powder that is used.
What you could do is go with a hybrid of .308 and .300 winmag, this is called a .30-06 or even better ackley improved .30-06.
Cheap brass, recoil and performance between that of those two calibers. Long Barrel life. I have found that the velocities up to 190grns bullets are only slightly lower (100-200fps) than that of a .300 win mag.

 

[bohem]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

It's entirely possible if you use the right powders. Think outside the box a little guys, c'mon now.

You get S.E.E. from an under-filled case, so how do you keep case fill over 80% and still keep pressures low? Light bullet with SLOW powder.

Here's 100% case fill scenario that affords hot 308 and light 30-06 performance from a 175-180gr bullet:

75gr of Retumbo under a 178 Amax at 3.45" OAL and you have a projected velocity from a 26" tube of 2750fps.

Yes, it's possible and entirely safe. BTW, the projected peak pressure you get from that load is about 38ksi. Barrel and brass life will be exceptional there.

 

[Ron Long]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I have both and don't notice much change in recoil. Wear good hearing protection and go with a 300. Recoil is mild.. It really depends on the rifle, weight and stock.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I crunched some numbers to compare some long action calibers in the 30-06 family and 300 Win Mag family to the 308 Win, short action. All info was pulled off the Hodgdon data center so it is no way comprehensive, but they are just rough numbers to gift me (and anyone else that cares) a guide line.
The RECOIL MIN was calculated with the min load and lightest bullet weight just to compare recoil to the 308win minimum load and smallest bullet weight.
All the MAX numbers were pulled from the heaviest bullets.

308 win
RECOIL MIN 0%
RECOIL MAX 0%
VELOCITY MAX 0%
BC MAX 0%
GRAINS MAX 200

270 WIN
RECOIL MIN -3%
RECOIL MAX -7%
VELOCITY MAX -1%
BC MAX -10%
GRAINS MAX 180

264WM
RECOIL MIN 0%
RECOIL MAX 6%
VELOCITY MAX 11%
BC MAX 4%
GRAINS MAX 160

280 Rem
RECOIL MIN 11%
RECOIL MAX -5%
VELOCITY MAX 0%
BC MAX 5%
GRAINS MAX 175

7mmRM
RECOIL MIN 17%
RECOIL MAX 19%
VELOCITY MAX 19%
BC MAX 5%
GRAINS MAX 175

30-06
RECOIL MIN 31%
RECOIL MAX 23%
VELOCITY MAX -4%
BC MAX 7%
GRAINS MAX 220

300WM
RECOIL MIN 62%
RECOIL MAX 82%
VELOCITY MAX 9%
BC MAX 7%
GRAINS MAX 220

Conclusion:
Disclaimer: I am going off of these calculations only. No other inputs. Please understand that when reading the following. I am also new to these calibers so keep that in mind.

270 Win under preforms the 308 Win in all categories, other than having less recoil.

264WM sends a 6.5mm bullet at extreme speeds with a better BC than the 308 Win. The 264WM has almost the same recoil as the 308Win.

280 Rem is another uncommon round that at MAX loading offer less recoil and a high BC bullet than the 308Win.

7mmRM offers magnum speeds at the price of higher recoil. The 7mm BC also beats outs the 308Win

30-06 offers a bigger bullet with better BC at slower speeds. The recoil however is more than the 7mmRM.

300WM is a real stopper. It rightfully beats out the 308win in all categories, as it should. It does pay the price of heavier recoil.

Opinion:
I'm shocked that the 270 WIN doesn't compare well with the 308. I've heard so much good things about it. Unless recoil was a huge concern, I would stay with the 308Win because of it's smaller size alone.

It surprised me to see that the 264 round isn't as popular as the rest. It's possible that other 6.5mm rounds not in the 300WM family offer more.

The 280 Rem is almost the 308win's equal. The 280 is a longer round offers less recoil and in a round which will retain it's speed at longer ranges due to it's higher BC.

The 7mmRM is a magnum and probably should be compared with the 308, but it does have some nice abilities of added speed with a 7mm bullet. The trade off is more recoil.

30-06 in from these numbers doesn't offer much more from it's larger size in terms of external ballistics. Terminal ballistic is the main benefit over the 308.

300WM has almost double the recoil as the 308, and from these numbers offers a 10% with a 20% bullet weight increase.

Summary:
First off since recoil is my motivating factor, 30-06 and the 300WM are off my list. The major benefit for these rounds are in terminal ballistics, and since this gun is not for hunting or military, there off the list.
Next off the list are the 264WM and 280Rem. Even though they offer some nice benefits, a Remington 700, or re-chambering an action, for these calibers would be a littler harder to come by.
That leaves the 270 Win and the 7mmRM...

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

^^ I do "over" analyze things.

 

[bohem]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

You are taking a linear approach to a highly non-linear system. The conclusions that you've drawn from this linear comparison are effectively worthless.

Perhaps a more appropriate method to analyze the traits of these various chamberings is to couple the BC and expected MV's for the various bullets then take that information and run it through a good ballistic computer (JBM is a free, excellent, online tool).

In terms of trajectory, energy on target, effective range, etc. this statement is quite false:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 280 Rem is almost the 308win's equal. The 280 is a longer round and really doesn't offer much more advantages.</div></div>

There's a different approach to caliber comparisons in a thread started elsewhere on this forum.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1877441&page=1

Look at the following:

Wind drift at range
ToF to target
"Danger Space" at range
Energy and Momentum at range, then cross reference against sectional density

 

[squirrel_slayer]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

there was an article in the hodgdon annual manual(the magazine type) about MEL's years back(managed effective loads) H4895 is one of the better powders for this. hodgdon even has "youth" loads for this powder. my first bolt rifle was a 300 win and I wanted to use it on a mule deer hunt but didn't want to worry about excessive meat damage so I used the 30-06 data and bumped it up a grain or two for the start load and was very suprised how huge of a difference the recoil was. I loaded a 130gr ttsx. didn't have a chrono at the time but based off the data it should have been in the 2600-2800 range. accuracy was still min of deer so no worry's there. as always excersice caution when doing so.

 

[Mike_R]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I use a 7 Rem Mag loaded with the 120 gr V max and RL 22 powder sometimes. Low recoil, but not very efficient. 7 WSM or RSAUM would likely be better than the 7 Rem Mag if they would work with your mags. Dealing with the belt is somewhat annoying.

30-06 is a great choice.

Why not build a long action 308? If you do a search on here you will find threads discussing the relative merits of this approach. If you want a .308 to train with(good choice) you can build it on a long action, there is nothing magical that would prevent you from doing that. 1 plus is that you can have a longer COAL and chase the lands as your throat wears, while still having a magazine fed gun. I don't know if your desired mags are compatible with this approach but if .30-06 will work with some tweaking the same mag with a spacer "should" work fine. I would investigate that route.
Thats what I would do. Then you could step up to 30-06 AI or .284 later on the same action, or just about any of the magnums on the same stock.

I once had a similar desire. I wanted to rebarrel my 7 RM to something more .308 like for practice and determined that there was nothing on the magnum bolt face that would be easy on barrels and powder usage while offering similar performance. That action will eventually be used for something unequivocally magnum.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are taking a linear approach to a highly non-linear system. The conclusions that you've drawn from this linear comparison are effectively worthless. </div></div>
I kept it linear just for ease of understanding. I do see the draw backs of my linear approach. I wouldn't call it worthless. I would say it is limited, but I'm picking a caliber for my needs and limiting helps simplify my research.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In terms of trajectory, energy on target, effective range, etc. this statement is quite false:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 280 Rem is almost the 308win's equal. The 280 is a longer round and really doesn't offer much more advantages.</div></div></div></div>
trajectory - is a function of MV and BC. Both of which were compared.
energy on target - couldn't care less, this caliber is not for hunting/military uses. MV and BC are my focuses.
effective range - "effective range" is a hunting/military concern. I am however concerned about sub-sonic distances, but those are in relation to BC and MV.

You are right my linear approach didn't take into account all of the variables and the 280 might edge the 308 out in different areas down range. (I will edit my comments above.)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind drift at range
ToF to target
"Danger Space" at range
Energy and Momentum at range, then cross reference against sectional density</div></div>

Wind drift is a function of MV and BC, considering all things equal, a higher MV and higher BC will reduce wind drift.
ToF to target, I should look at this. It's a minor concern of mine, but again I see it as a faster MV will reduce the ToF and a better BC will help it retain it's MV. I am not however worry about a deer moving in the 2 secs of bullet flight.
"Danger Space" I honestly had no idea about danger space. First time I've heard it mentioned. I'll look into this some more.
Energy and Momentum are not issues of mine since this will be a target gun.

I know this approach is over simplified, and it has many short comings. It was just a "quick" way for me to learn and compare calibers. It is no way "the book" on all these calibers.

I do appreciate your link and feed back.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use a 7 Rem Mag loaded with the 120 gr V max and RL 22 powder sometimes. Low recoil, but not very efficient. 7 WSM or RSAUM would likely be better than the 7 Rem Mag if they would work with your mags. Dealing with the belt is somewhat annoying.</div></div>
I was looking at a 120gr vmax for training, since it does have low recoil.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-06 is a great choice.</div></div>
It is but it's recoil is what I'm trying to avoid. All of my above are great choices.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not build a long action 308? If you do a search on here you will find threads discussing the relative merits of this approach.</div></div>
I'd do it if it wasn't for cost. A new long action Rem 700 is around $600. I would need to find a used 30-06 (or similar bolt face) and get it re-barreled for less than that. I don't think a used re-barreled 700 is doable for under $600. I could be wrong.

 

[Mike_R]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

So you are planning on putting a factory barreled action in a $1000+ dollar stock?

I am the last one to want to discourage anyone but I would suggest you reconsider the approach here. Many here would argue that the barrel and trigger (trigger can be made workable for free) matter more than the stock. The 7 Rem Mag will eat barrels. Total cost per shot isn't just components, its also barrel wear and you will likely want to rebarrel that 7mm before you would be even halfway done with the .308 tube.

Were you planning on finding a 7 RM Sendero for less than 600? A skinny ADL or BDL barrel in the world's greatest stock is still going to kick more than you would probably care for while prone and heat up and walk pretty quickly.

Again, not trying to discourage anyone (I hate getting my threads stomped on as much as the next guy) but I would consider that when you originally wanted a .308, I think you were on the right track. Everything else is a compromise.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you are planning on putting a factory barreled action in a $1000+ dollar stock?</div></div>
Yeah, unfortunately I have a hard time fitting rifles to me. I don't know why. I'm pretty picky.

My plan is to start with a training/factory rifle that I will build into a workable rifle while practicing with it.
Start with a factory rifle.
Add better stock.
Practice with first barrel and reduced recoil loads
Making adjustment to trigger, bipod, scope, etc as needed.
Re-barrel and true action after I ate up the factory barrel.
At this point I should be able to handle full loads.
All that remains from the factory rifle at this point would be the action.
(I would love comments on this if someone sees a better way. And I know I could get a short action now and just sell it later, that's just not really my style, because I just wouldn't sell it and get too attached to it. I like this working progress model.)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were you planning on finding a 7 RM Sendero for less than 600? A skinny ADL or BDL barrel in the world's greatest stock is still going to kick more than you would probably care for while prone and heat up and walk pretty quickly.</div></div>
I was looking for a cheap BDL since I'm going to burn through the barrel quickly anyways. I think now you see my concern over recoil.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, not trying to discourage anyone (I hate getting my threads stomped on as much as the next guy) but I would consider that when you originally wanted a .308, I think you were on the right track. Everything else is a compromise. </div></div>
Stomp away I'm just learning here.
My original plan was 223 to 308 to 300. I'm moving to 308 but don't want to spend twice on a short action stock then a long action. I'm trying to find a medium between 308 and 300 that will still work with an AICS mag and long action. It's not easy...
This thread got really off topic, but I like it.

 

[bohem]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I understand what you were trying to do, and like you seem to realize the linear approach is lacking. The issue with saying "let's keep it simple" is that it can lead to making decisions from conclusions gleaned by data that is misrepresentative of the actual behavior of the system you're trying to model.

I do numerical modeling for a living, figuring out how many shortcuts can be taken for a quick-design approach is very important to bounding the problem and that's what I do for a large portion of my annual salary. This is why I suggested a clear approach to much more accurately and realistically model the ballistic system without a large expenditure of time/funds or worse yet, building something on the info without actually having understood what's really going on.

I think that if you're trying to mitigate the performance of the 300Win like you asked, lighter bullets with Retumbo (so that the performance is lackluster considering the capability) is the solution.

If you want to have something that's flexible you can take a 280 Rem or 7mm-06 (very close, but not quite identical) and either load it down to the 7mm-08 performance or you can push it hard and get pretty close to the 7 Rem SAUM performance. All without the expense of multiple actions/stocks/scopes/etc.

Same concept as the 300 Win load that I suggested to start with above.

 

[Mike_R]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

You said MV and BC were your objectives. If you don't care about downrange energy why use the .300 WM? There are plenty of more suitable target cartridges that would do what you want without cons of the 300 WM.

I think you could get ballistically superior results out of a 7WSM or RSAUM with less recoil and powder usage plus not dealing with the belt(many people say it no big deal, but you do not need a belted magnum for punching paper, and its at best "minimally annoying" in the reloading process).

Another way to look at this would be to start with a 280 Remington and rebarrel .30-06 AI.

Yet another option would be to start .243, 7-08, .308 etc and then rebarrel to a .284 winchester or 6.5-284.

Just food for thought.

I bought my 7 RM with the same thought process (even the order of operations you suggested) and found prone it was a pain, while standing it was no big deal. I ended up weighting my stock with lead and fiberglass resin because it was not like shooting a .223. Those ADL or BDL barrels are light. Light guns, prone, and magnum don't go together well.

Recoil is a factor of not just velocity and projectile weight but also powder weight. If cost is an issue (and realistically it is for almost all of us) a lighter charge mean better barrel life, less cost and less chance of developing a flinch.

Before you buy you might want to try running ballistic through JBM and one of the recoil calculators too, paying particular attention to weight of the gun. YMMV.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that if you're trying to mitigate the performance of the 300Win like you asked, lighter bullets with Retumbo (so that the performance is lackluster considering the capability) is the solution.</div></div>
I know, it really is like putting a scooter engine in a corvette.
(exaggerating for effect)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want to have something that's flexible you can take a 280 Rem or 7mm-06 (very close, but not quite identical) and either load it down to the 7mm-08 performance or you can push it hard and get pretty close to the 7 Rem SAUM performance. All without the expense of multiple actions/stocks/scopes/etc.</div></div>
I've been checking it out since you said it, and I agree. The 7mm bullet the 280 Rem uses provides a lot of flexibility. This really is a great idea. (See it takes time, but I come around to good ideas if you explain it slow enough for me to understand.)

Thanks, it's helpful people that make this forum what it is.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You said MV and BC were your objectives. If you don't care about downrange energy why use the .300 WM? There are plenty of more suitable target cartridges that would do what you want without cons of the 300 WM.</div></div>
Yeah, 300WM is off the table at this point.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another way to look at this would be to start with a 280 Remington and rebarrel .30-06 AI.

Yet another option would be to start .243, 7-08, .308 etc and then rebarrel to a .284 winchester or 6.5-284.</div></div>
Interesting... I'm liking this 280 Rem idea more and more.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before you buy you might want to try running ballistic through JBM and one of the recoil calculators too, paying particular attention to weight of the gun. YMMV.</div></div>
All I have been doing for the past 3 days in jumping from JBM, to Hodgdon's Data Center, and to a Recoil Calculator crunching numbers checking different bullets outs. (I really have been enjoy it though, been learning a ton.)

It's good to hear it from people who know and can point me in the right direction instead of just numbers.

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you could get ballistically superior results out of a 7WSM or RSAUM with less recoil and powder usage plus not dealing with the belt(many people say it no big deal, but you do not need a belted magnum for punching paper, and its at best "minimally annoying" in the reloading process).</div></div>
I'm checking out the 7WSM and 7RSAUM. I don't see any Rem 700 in these calibers. Do these fit in a short action 700 receiver? Or do have receivers of the same foot print?

 

[bohem]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know, it really is like putting a scooter engine in a corvette.
(exaggerating for effect)</div></div>

That's a good one... I like it, very apt description.

 

[aloreman]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I know alot of old timers that used to load 110 grain bullets in 3006 with red dot powder and hunt small game with them

 

[FrozenRopes]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: megarush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yet another option would be to start .243, 7-08, .308 etc and then rebarrel to a .284 winchester or 6.5-284.</div></div>

This 6.5-284 is very impressive...
It seems like it would benefit from a long action with an OAL of 3.3"
How would starting with a 25-06 then going to a 6.5-284 sound?

It would have the same bolt face, a long action, less recoil, and Remington makes a lot of 25-06's.
The biggest drawback I see is the .257 inch bullets are nothing compared to the 6.5.

It also uses a lot of powder for this little bullet, but that's what I get for a long action caliber.

Anything bigger than a 25-06 will have more recoil than the 6.5-284.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

I load my 300wm hot. and with a custom muzzle brake and weight pushing 17lbs, its barely kicks at all. it is loud as a mother fucker though. just build the winmag now. u wont regret it

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Under loading a 300 win mag

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load my 300wm hot. and with a custom muzzle brake and weight pushing 17lbs, its barely kicks at all. it is loud as a mother fucker though. just build the winmag now. u wont regret it </div></div>

Exactly....

A buddy of mine has had lots of heart trouble, and surgeries, and has had a pacemaker for decades. Heavy recoil just isn't his thing. He runs a JP brake on his Sendero weight 300WM with no issues of discomfort.

If no brake is desired, and you could extrapolate some data (I looked, there is none listed at the moment for the 300WM), the answer to low recoil, low pressure, reloads is AA5744. I tried it for shits and giggles in a 300RUM stock CDL with 180 grain bullets. The recoil was not much more than a hot 243, and accuracy was surprisingly pleasing.