Rifle Scopes Understanding the Vortex Craze

[77Bronc]

I am asking a legitimate question, and by no stretch of the imagination am I starting an staring an argument, but please explain the Vortex craze....am I missing something or is this scope that good and did I overspend purchasing a US Optics?

It seems this scope appeared overnight and many people have jumped on the rear bumper for a ride down the road....every other post here and other places put this scope on a pedestal and I am wondering if I am missing something.

Just looking for some honest feedback...

77

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I dont think you can really "overspend" on optics, because you simply get what you pay for. And in some cases you get more than you pay for than in other cases.
The PST is the only Vortex I own, so I cannot speak about the other products. But the PST is what me and others have said it is, a great scope for the price. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[25MAN]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I don't own US Optics, I do however own Schmidt, Night Force, and Vortex. let me start of by saying in my opinion the Vortex PST line (which I own)is not in the same category as Night Force and certainly nowhere near US Optics, Henny, or Schmidt. It is a fantastic quality scope for the money. it allows people to get into quality glass under $1000. When you get one and hold it, feel the positive turns of the turrets, look through it and see the crisp glass, look at the options like illumination and zero stop that come with it, and then look at the price tag...you realize you got your money's worth.

I do not own an HD so can not speak to it....but in my experience and opinion the PST line is one of the best optic valu buys around.

 

[223ai]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

You ever used one?

 

[timelinex]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I don't think it's too fair comparing Vortex to US Optics. Vortex is considered very good glass especially for the money. Their other shining point is their warranty. When your buying US Optics, I suspect your paying more for the established name and track record.

Depending on who you ask you will get polarized answer's. Some will say you overpaid just by even considering US optics, other's will say it's worth twice the price..... After a certain dollar amount, quality grows slowly while price grows exponentially (like anything else). So I have a $500 vortex Viper and even though I have never had a 1000+ scope I have looked through them and wasn't impressed. Two weeks ago I compared my scope to a $2500 nightforce out to 1000 yards and they looked exactly alike. Mirage effected both of them equally, both of them were not razor sharp at 1000 but still really good. Now the difference might come in very low light situations, which is a valid reason. But I think most people use their equipment during daylight, atleast I do, and comparing them to 1000 is good enough for ME.

BUT if I had unlimited funds to spend, you bet your ass I would get a Schmidt & Bender or US Optics.... You''ve got nothing to lose and they have a track record of excellence, so why not.

To answer your question about the CRAZE though, the main reason is there customer service. Anytime a company,offering a good product, enters a market thats overly saturated by big companies(that offer average service), they gain alot of ground if they offer great customer service. At this day and age we come to expect shitty customer service, and when a company does otherwise we absolutely rave about it.

 

[CMH]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

By definition it is a vortex - you can't help but get sucked in.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

they have great customer service, you get a great scope for the money, they listen to shooters needs and deliver the features such as front focal planes, matching turrets and reticles, better reticles for ranging and hold overs than the mil-dot,, illuminated reticles, zero stop, good glass, tracking, and durability that suits or exceeds the price you pay.

 

[77Bronc]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think you can really "overspend" on optics, because you simply get what you pay for. And in some cases you get more than you pay for than in other cases.
The PST is the only Vortex I own, so I cannot speak about the other products. But the PST is what me and others have said it is, a great scope for the price. Nothing more nothing less. </div></div>

Thanks for the replies, and as one poster asked, no I have never used one.

Coldbore,

I too agree, you cannot overspend on optics, as I have posted in other locations, it drives me crazy to see people asking about putting scopes that cost the same as a 6-pack of P-Mags on their AR's.

My only experience with upper tier scopes has been with Leupold and ACOG's. The Leupold was sold many years ago. I purchased the USO SN-3 T-Pal by reputation only. It never pained me to spend this amount of money, because like many have said before and my motto: you get what you pay for and I like paying once. Chances are this will not be my last USO, I have my eye on a SN-12 for one of my naked LMT MRP's.

Thanks,

77

 

[RobG]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

The PST line offers tremendous value. A feature rich scope that does not break the bank and offers smaller budgets like mine the ability to get things like ffp, zero stop, illumination, enhanced reticles, etc., without having to eat ramen for 2 + years. I'd love a S&B, USO, etc., but I could never justify the cost for the shooting I do.

 

[hbus1300]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I got in before the PST with my regular viper 6.5-20x50. It was the least expensive scope that would reliably do what I wanted it to. I bought it knowing i'd get better glass eventually, but knew it was an ok place to start without buying junk.

 

[BCP]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

They offer a lot for the money; why wouldn't people like them?

The only fallacy is expecting them to be "as good as" scopes in a much higher cost bracket.

 

[nfoley]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Like others have said, great scope for a good price, and excellent CS to back them up. No surprise to me at all people love them.

 

[JonLSU]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Also alot of people are recreational shooters who will never be in matches or in life or death situations with their rifles. There is honestly no need to spend 2k + dollars on a scope when a $500 -$800 one will work for their needs.

 

[77Bronc]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

All very good statements and arguments...good CS is always a big plus, that is why I have settled on the few manufacturers in my collection and accessories.

77

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Different strokes for different folks. US Optics are nice people and the ability to completely custom order a scope is a great option to have, however that doesn't make them the end-all be-all of scope manufacturers. Perhaps they're perfect for you, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there (maybe people who've owned more USO scopes than you ever will) that want something different than what they provide.

 

[Meat Hunter]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I bought a $1500 NF back in May based solely on the hype I read here and a few other places. Shot it on my LR308 for 2-1/2 months and was never blown away by the optical quality. The Nightforce never really impressed me all that much. Then I bought a MWS and wanted to try something different for a scope. I ordered a 6-24 PST from Sport Optics. I got the PST and compared the glass to the NXS in all kinds of light. Looking at close targets and targets out to 500 plus yards. Side by side looking through one then the other. I honestly think the PST was clearer at all magnifications. I called my shooting partner to look through the PST and his conclusion was the same as mine. The Vortex was clearer and more defined. Also the PST has an illuminated reticle that can be adjusted for intensity without tools or having to take part of the scope apart. Can't say the same for Nightforce.

I keep hearing that the Vortex Viper PST is the best for the money. Well IMO it is better than some scopes costing twice as much. That is my take on the "craze"

 

[bohem]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Comparing any of the non-HD Vortex models to the USO stuff isn't fair to either company really.

I have spent a lot of time behind the USO scopes, some S&B's, lots of NF scopes and several Razor HD's. I own Razors and NF's.

The Razor HD line is close in feature list and price point to the USO offerings and the PST is not. Different strokes for different folks is pretty much on.

I feel the Razors I own and the several USO's that a good friend owns are very similar. One thing that I REALLY like on the USO's is that EREK knob and how willing they are to make/install custom reticles.

The checklist included with a USO upon delivery is great and it is a good tool to help control first time quality.

The customer service of both companies is rumored to be excellent, and the times that I have dealt with Vortex CS I have been nothing but flat out impressed.

I do think that Vortex needs to initiate some more FTQ checks from a number of issues that I have either had for me or friends first hand. They have bent over backwards to make it right each time, but there's only so many times you want to fix it before you just say "Forget it." I don't want to get to that point and I'm sure Vortex doesn't want any customers getting to that point either.

Bottom line is that if you compare like-priced products with similar features lists the Vortex scopes make sense. The average market price is about 10-20% lower than a USO, customer service is phenomenal, but the company has not been around as long as USO and the guys using the Vortex are willing to experiment with a new company in trade for that reduced price.

Comparing a PST to a USO with the same feature list is like watermelons to bowling balls, nothing but weight to compare.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

bells and whistles, the pst has them, and for a lower much price than most manufactures do. they are great for beginners and a great deal for the $

 

[wdhigh]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Jay, have you used a 4-16 pst in low light conditions? Can they pull off being usable an hour past sunset or would you look elsewhere? I am in the process of selling my NF to fund 2 scopes and the pst is top of my list. Thanks.

 

[m1k3]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

My first scope was the SS10x fixed. A fantastic scope for the money. And at the time, the max I was willing to spend on a scope. The next was a Viper that I bought used on here, actually from Ratbert above (thanks man) several years ago. The company's warranty was clearly shown on their website, plane english, easy to read and even easier to understand.

Its a good product and is backed by even better people. I would prefer it made in the USA, I would pay a bit more if it were. But other than that, that scope just worked. Very few people ever had a problem with them. You could almost never find a used one for sale. Actually, I think I asked Ratbert for his when he said he might sell it in a normal thread post.

I've since owned Nightforce, IOR, Leupold, and a PST. Now, I own the Viper's and the Nightforce. In the price range of the Viper's, there is not a better scope. I think the next price range is the used NF market. Do you get double the scope for double the price? I feel that in some parts you do but after the $1400 range, it goes down hill quickly.

The reason for the "Craze"? I think its because the biggest part of the market is where they are priced. They have representatives on the forums. The offer to help well before help is asked. Its a win:win for sure. I see them as the Craftsman of the scope world. Maybe not the best, but are damn good and are well backed if needed.

mike

 

[m1k3]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wdhigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jay, have you used a 4-16 pst in low light conditions? Can they pull off being usable an hour past sunset or would you look elsewhere? I am in the process of selling my NF to fund 2 scopes and the pst is top of my list. Thanks. </div></div>

I have the PST 4-16x SFP MOA and I'm not sure an hour past sunset but 30 min for sure. I'll take a look through mine tonight and see if I can identify the neighbor's dogs at an hour past sunset. The skies are as clear as possible now in West Texas so it would have the best chance of success there is.

Mike

Added: The dogs are at 75-100yds away and look a lot like each other. Both are 1/2 wolf.

 

[Icallem]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I don’t know why anyone else likes the Vortex, but I like mine because it just does what it is supposed to do.
I had been waiting to try the Viper 6-20x44 at a distance for a couple of reasons. One to see if you crank the dials you get what you were looking for, the other to see if the crosshairs being as thick as they are would be ok. The pictures will show that cranking the dials will work. The crosshairs are still thick! The Viper is mounted on a Model 10 FLP in 308 cal.
The first target was set @ 564 yards, and for a lack of info with me, I dialed in 14 MOA, netting the shots at the top of the target. I then turned it down to 12.75 MOA and shot 5 more. This was shot early morning. I went back out yesterday afternoon and set the target @ 658 yards. 2.5 mph wind from 3:00(right to left). I dialed in 16 MOA up and 1 MOA right. After 5 shots, I looked at the target and went up to 17.25 MOA and shot 5 more.
If you are laughing at my shooting, well then you are missing the point. I do not want to turn this into a review on the Viper, but for the price point, it seems worth the money. I do wish they would make the turrets larger with bigger numbers for the older crowd that can’t see the small numbers.

YMMV

 

[AustinN4]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bells and whistles, the pst has them, and for a lower much price than most manufactures do. they are great for beginners and a great deal for the $</div></div>
This ^

I have been shooting pistol and carbine since the 60's but am new to long range shooting.

I went with a PST 4-16x50 FFP Mil/Mil for my .308 R700P in order to have a decent feature rich scope to learn with but not break the bank in case I decide long range shooting is not my thing. And if I stick with it I can always upgrade if I find it to be necessary.

Edited to add: So far I am very happy with it. Also, I should have mentioned that another factor in my decision was the Vortex warranty and CS.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

At the risk of restating what has already been said, here's my experience. Vortex customer service seems to be excellent. I have recently e-mailed Vortex, Leupold and Nighforce requesting specific information. Vortex responded within an hour with more info than I needed. Leupold took 3 days to respond with a one sentence answer. Nightforce responded in a day and requested that I call their customer service number. I did and was treated to a lengthy conversation with a very helpful gentleman.

I own a Viper PST and a Leupold Mark IV LR/T. I prefer the turrets on the Viper ... they solidly click through adjustment while the Leupold turrets kinda mush along. Zero stop and FFP on the Viper are nice too. Where the Leupold pulls ahead is in the quality of the glass. I deal with quality optics every day in my business, so believe me there is a difference, not huge but a difference. But this is not to fault Vortex. Like everyone else, they manufacture their product to a certain price point to compete in the market. For under $1K I think they've done a damned fine job. Above that, you're paying for the quality of the glass. If you're anal like me about quality glass, then it may be worth the increased price of admission to the next level. If you're satisfied with very good optical quality along with very nice features, Vortex PST may be all you need.

 

[jkillebrew]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I think I am going with the Viper for my DPMS 308. Wish me luck!

 

[LibertyOptics]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jpspeeddemon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they have great customer service, you get a great scope for the money, they listen to shooters needs and deliver the features such as front focal planes, matching turrets and reticles, better reticles for ranging and hold overs than the mil-dot,, illuminated reticles, zero stop, good glass, tracking, and durability that suits or exceeds the price you pay. </div></div>

This sums it up nicely.

It starts and ends with their people and their corporate culture. They are dedicated to the shooting community, they are a family run business with top notch employees and they care about the product and the dealer and the customer. They never stop innovating and they always do what is right.

+1 on the "Vortex Craze"

Scott

 

[m1k3]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

A lot also has to do with the vendor community around here like Scott at Liberty Optics. They actually still understand what "customer service" is and respect that the customer is what keeps them in business.

I won't do business with anyone else except the vendors and supporters on this forum.

Thanks Scott and the rest of the vendors!

Mike

 

[dukguy]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Good customer service

 

[jwilly]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wdhigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jay, have you used a 4-16 pst in low light conditions? Can they pull off being usable an hour past sunset or would you look elsewhere? I am in the process of selling my NF to fund 2 scopes and the pst is top of my list. Thanks. </div></div>

This is the PST that I have, I think its GREAT! I am by know means an expert but it has done the job out to 700 Yds and after about 250 rds out of my 300RUM with 97 gr of Retumbo it sure has held up! Not much low light use yet but I am impressed. Thinking about the 1-4 for my AR to replace the 512.

BTW, +1 on dealing with Scott, one of the good guys!

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I will tell you, I succumbed to the Vortex craze and received my Razor 1-4X EBR-556 Monday. Mounted it and took it out to the local range... and promptly knocked it off the bench onto the concrete!!!

It dinged up the turret caps but went to sight in and the thing still functions perfectly.

The FFP and reticle are fantastic and I can tell I'm really going to like this scope. On 1X engaging short distance is very "Aimpoint-ish" and the 4X with the ranging reticle seems spot on. I look forward to getting it out past 100 and using it for the next 3 Mils Right comp.

Sent an email to Vortex an hour ago about replacing the caps and received a response a few minutes ago. Caps will be on the way Monday very inexpensively!

Love the optic so far and digging the company.

 

[hmhoshino]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Add another person to the Vortex Razor HD EBR-2B craze because I confirmed my order. It will go on my GAP Crusader that is being built for me. I forgot to mention that I ordered the Vortex Razor from GAP Crusader and they will mount it for me. Henry

 

[BW88]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I picked up a pair of Vortex Viper HD 8x42 binos. Compared them with Zeiss binos that were much more expensive in night time ambient light. Very impressed!

+1 for Vortex.

 

[Matt_3479]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

For the price, the glass is out standing! tracking is repeatable, scopes are durable and reliable and service is the best!!


Remington 700 SPS Varmint 243. win topped with VORTEX VIPER 6.5-20x44mm
[img:left]

[/img]

Browning A-Bolt 300. WSM topped with VORTEX VIPER PST 4-16x50mm FFP received yesterday
[img:left]

[/img]

 

[Flynn]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Meat Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a $1500 NF back in May based solely on the hype I read here and a few other places. Shot it on my LR308 for 2-1/2 months and was never blown away by the optical quality. The Nightforce never really impressed me all that much. Then I bought a MWS and wanted to try something different for a scope. I ordered a 6-24 PST from Sport Optics. I got the PST and compared the glass to the NXS in all kinds of light. Looking at close targets and targets out to 500 plus yards. Side by side looking through one then the other. I honestly think the PST was clearer at all magnifications. I called my shooting partner to look through the PST and his conclusion was the same as mine. The Vortex was clearer and more defined. Also the PST has an illuminated reticle that can be adjusted for intensity without tools or having to take part of the scope apart. Can't say the same for Nightforce.

I keep hearing that the Vortex Viper PST is the best for the money. Well IMO it is better than some scopes costing twice as much. That is my take on the "craze" </div></div>

Dead on with NF, nothing special given the price tag with their optics or CS.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

"Vortex" is a brand. Much like Leupold. They have product lines for each price point.

US Optics and Nightforce are different. They really don't have a "budget" line.

You can't compare a Vortex Crossfire or PST to a US Optics or Nightforce ANYTHING. You can however make an accurate comparison of a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 to a NXS F1 or USO SN-3. They are in similar price points and are designed to compete for the same customers.

I have not yet gotten a Viper PST in my hands for a real evaluation. The ones I have looked through and twisted the turrets on felt solid FOR THEIR PRICE POINT. Going on pure fit and finish alone I do not believe they can compete with USO or Nightforce.

What you have to realize is that some shooters simply don't need what Nightforce, USO or the Vortex Razor provide. So why pay for it?

If you need a top end scope, then you probably aren't even considering the Viper PST line.

If you are limited to a price point, then I believe the Viper PST looks to be a good quality optic. I hope to be able to get one in soon to compare it to some of the other great mid level offerings out there (Bushnell Tactical, etc.).

 

[branson1369]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I have 2 NF scopes and they are well worth the money. I did put the Vortex PST 4-16 FFP on my new MA-TEN 308 build and it is on line with the leupolds at a better price point but not the same quality as NF, S+B or USO. I went this way since I went well over budget goldplating my build and to try the FFP to see how much I like it. If I decide I like/use the FFP enough I will upgrade to one of the top 3 and recycle the Vortex to a AR 15

 

[wdhigh]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Looked through a 50mm viper today. Reticle was interesting, glass was not what I was expecting after reading people claim it was better than vx-3 and vx-III. It was ok but I think people hyped it up too much for me.

Like a dumb ass I sold a 3.5-15x56 NF friday in order to fund 2 scopes for some unused rifles. I ordered a PST 4-16 ffp and now I expect to not be impressed with it either. I am going to hold off on ordering anything else until it shows up and I can look at it good.

 

[Nebraskaboy]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Agreed WDhigh I ordered a 6-24X50 Viper PST and when I received it I was very disappointed in the clarity of glass took it to the range and had 2 other shooters with me and all 3 of us had the same opinion, poor clarity, could not get the adjustable objective to work and items had no real defined edges. We compared it to 2 Leupolds a VX-II 6-18X40 and VX-3 6.5-20X40, also a Vortex crossfire 4-14X40 and they all where better optics. I probably should have called Vortex or tried to exchange it but it was the last one available when I ordered it. To say the least I was extremely disappointed, I ended up ordering another VX-3. that makes # 4 on my rifles guess I will stay with Leupold until I have issues.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Name me one other optic right now that has this to offer in a line under $1000:
- Two different optics ranges (4-16, 6-14)
- Matching turrets in both angle measurements (mil/mil, moa/moa)
- Two focus options (FFP, SFP)
- A milling reticle other than a mil-dot
- Zero stop
- Illuminated reticle with on/off between each turn
- Lifetime warrenty
- Excellent customer service

As you can see, your options list are pretty big. Durability is going to be the biggest factor in a less expensive optic. But if are just going from home to range and back, it may not be as big a factor as if you were taking to the sandbox.

 

[m1k3]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

I think you mean 4-16x and 6-24x.

Not too mention that if you want to spend less, drop some of those features and get one of the original Vipers. Great turrets, decent glass, fantastic company to stand behind them and at a great price.

Mike

 

[RUTGERS95]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think it's too fair comparing Vortex to US Optics. Vortex is considered very good glass especially for the money. Their other shining point is their warranty. When your buying US Optics, I suspect your paying more for the established name and track record.

Depending on who you ask you will get polarized answer's. Some will say you overpaid just by even considering US optics, other's will say it's worth twice the price..... After a certain dollar amount, quality grows slowly while price grows exponentially (like anything else). So I have a $500 vortex Viper and even though I have never had a 1000+ scope I have looked through them and wasn't impressed. Two weeks ago I compared my scope to a $2500 nightforce out to 1000 yards and they looked exactly alike. Mirage effected both of them equally, both of them were not razor sharp at 1000 but still really good. Now the difference might come in very low light situations, which is a valid reason. But I think most people use their equipment during daylight, atleast I do, and comparing them to 1000 is good enough for ME.



BUT if I had unlimited funds to spend, you bet your ass I would get a Schmidt & Bender or US Optics.... You''ve got nothing to lose and they have a track record of excellence, so why not.

To answer your question about the CRAZE though, the main reason is there customer service. Anytime a company,offering a good product, enters a market thats overly saturated by big companies(that offer average service), they gain alot of ground if they offer great customer service. At this day and age we come to expect shitty customer service, and when a company does otherwise we absolutely rave about it. </div></div>

great post

dollar for dollar, I do not believe you can find a better scope given all of the accolades mentioned in this thread. I also agree that past a certain price point, your return on value diminishes faster than the rate of increase in price.

On the higher end of the scale, I'd give the nod to us optics and nf simply because they have proven durability. If Vortex does this with the HD line, I can't imagine myself ever buying another brand of scope....

 

[fdkay]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Vortex has made every attempt to provide the tactical shooter on a budget everything they need in a scope.

However, there are other players in the sub-1000 dollar tactical marketthat make high quality gear, namely bushnell and weaver.

There is quite a bit of kool-aid drinking concerning vortex, with some swearing the PST is a 2500 dollar scope for 850. This is, of course nonsense.
Does that mean they are not good scopes? Of course not, by all accounts they are a very good scope, especially when considering the price.

If you would look back to shortly after last years shot show, when the PST was introduced, there were MANY folks proclaiming the PST line to be the holy grail of tactical rifle scopes, with bus loads of folks pre-ordering them.

You will not find the same feature set on any other scope in that price range anywhere. They fill a niche that desperately needed to be filled and they do it very well.

As far as customer service, their CS is legendary. It is my opinion that all of the threads you see speaking so highly of their customer service indicates to me, that it gets used too often.

 

[Kino]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

To each their own but from what I seen (or did'nt!) at the range today from a razor, the SS is a MUCH better buy and for the money on a tight budjet, the weaver tactical beats it!

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vortex has made every attempt to provide the tactical shooter on a budget everything they need in a scope.

However, there are other players in the sub-1000 dollar tactical marketthat make high quality gear, namely bushnell and weaver.

There is quite a bit of kool-aid drinking concerning vortex, with some swearing the PST is a 2500 dollar scope for 850. This is, of course nonsense.
Does that mean they are not good scopes? Of course not, by all accounts they are a very good scope, especially when considering the price.

If you would look back to shortly after last years shot show, when the PST was introduced, there were MANY folks proclaiming the PST line to be the holy grail of tactical rifle scopes, with bus loads of folks pre-ordering them.

You will not find the same feature set on any other scope in that price range anywhere. They fill a niche that desperately needed to be filled and they do it very well.

As far as customer service, their CS is legendary. It is my opinion that all of the threads you see speaking so highly of their customer service indicates to me, that it gets used too often. </div></div>

I thought for a while there he would miss his first chance to bag on the PST. Like death and taxes!

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

To all the people who talk about the clarity of glass. Has a non clear glass made you miss a shot? Spending money on any kind of scope I would want it to be durable and track correctly. Clarity is way over rated IMO and is subjective from person to person.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

Glass clarity does indeed need to take a back seat to tracking and repeatability.

However that requires that you actually shoot the scope and TEST the tracking. I would wager that 99% of scope buyers never run a tracking test.

I have looked through about a dozen Viper PST scopes at this point. I cannot comment on their accuracy or durability as yet because I have not gotten one on an accurate rifle so I can crank the turrets.

 

[Kino]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all the people who talk about the clarity of glass. Has a non clear glass made you miss a shot? Spending money on any kind of scope I would want it to be durable and track correctly. Clarity is way over rated IMO and is subjective from person to person. </div></div>

I could'nt disagree with you more on this. There are LOTS of scopes out there for less money (razor) that has MUCH clearer glass. While I have'nt seen the lower priced scopes of the vortex line, the razor hd should have better glass imo. It is less money than the top tier scopes but it still is alot of change for some.

While you may not have "missed" any steel at the ranges you shoot at, the clearer and brighter scopes are a deffinate advantage in low light and days with alot of mirage. Clearer scopes also make it MUCH better to shoot tighter groups for load work and see hits at long range much easier.
I do agree with John on the tracking test. Most folks dont check. On another note however, I would think that most folks that spend the coin for a razor or equally priced optic matched to a tactical precision rig DOES test their scopes, or at least much higher than the "99.9%". Pretty much ALL the scope companys today offer great warrantys and will take care of tracking and holding zero issues, they dont however all replace blurry glass........

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

No one is really talking about "blurry" glass. There are a lot of other factors that will contribute to how people conceive how "clear" some glass are. Clear looking glass is in no way any indicator of how good a scope is. It just means the company just sourced really nice "looking" glass.

I would take a scope with decent glass and a solid reputation of a good working scope then a scope that has the best glass out there and questionable quality control and is built in a third world country.

With mirage, I don't know what level of glass you are used to, but mirage is mirage to me. I shoot in it all the time with the so called top tier scopes and it's there, no way of getting around it. As far as I know, there isn't any special coatings that will get rid of the mirage. Best solution is to power down on the scope.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vortex has made every attempt to provide the tactical shooter on a budget everything they need in a scope.

However, there are other players in the sub-1000 dollar tactical marketthat make high quality gear, namely bushnell and weaver.

There is quite a bit of kool-aid drinking concerning vortex, with some swearing the PST is a 2500 dollar scope for 850. This is, of course nonsense.
Does that mean they are not good scopes? Of course not, by all accounts they are a very good scope, especially when considering the price.

If you would look back to shortly after last years shot show, when the PST was introduced, there were MANY folks proclaiming the PST line to be the holy grail of tactical rifle scopes, with bus loads of folks pre-ordering them.

You will not find the same feature set on any other scope in that price range anywhere. They fill a niche that desperately needed to be filled and they do it very well.

As far as customer service, their CS is legendary. It is my opinion that all of the threads you see speaking so highly of their customer service indicates to me, that it gets used too often. </div></div>

I thought for a while there he would miss his first chance to bag on the PST. Like death and taxes!</div></div>

Ahh, yes. speak of the devil.
Mr. they are a 2500 dollar scope for 850 himself.

Well, jackass, show me where I was "bagging" on vortex.

You get all butt-hurt the second someone does not agree that they are the greatest scope made.

 

[BCP]

Re: Understanding the Vortex Craze

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glass clarity does indeed need to take a back seat to tracking and repeatability.
</div></div>

The one I had tracked fine. I shot it out to 600 a few times without a problem. The glass was fine too.

Vortex put together a really nice package with the PST scopes & most of the criticism I've read about them has been either opinion or people who had hopes it was going to be a 2k scope for <1k...