Uniforming Norma tac 22 for precision shooting

[Alex Mason]

Hello, after plenty of searching for answers for ways to make shooting precision 22lr affordable, I’ve developed my “baller on a budget” process, and thought I would contribute to the community.
Gear- Bergara B14r carbon barrel in a MDT XRS chassis. 30 MOA base, 20 MOA Athlon 34 mm cantilever mount, Athlon Ares ETR 4.5 to 30x. LabRadar chronograph with remote trigger.

Process- I sort Norman tac 22 by rim thickness (of the 2k I have processed 65% measure .041”) I then take the ammo measuring at .041” and crimp to the highest available crimp with a cutting edge 22lr crimp die. ( crimping at this level has shown a 16% reduction in SD from factory crimp when compared to equivalent rim thickness)

Testing method- 25 round groups at 50 yards. 3 groups (factory crimp 14.3 sd, medium crimp 14.1 sd, heavy crimp 12 sd)
Hope this helps

 

[SwatchDog]

I have the Curex .22 lr 34 kit but haven't tried loading anything yet. But you are saying I can use that crimping die to upgrade my Norma ammo, right? Have you tried it on any other ammo?

 

[huntnh]

I think sk standard plus is about the same price and shoots a little better than the Norma in all my rifles

 

[justin amateur]

If sorting makes ya' happy, let y'er OCD fly free.
Been there, done that.
Weight sorting, rim thickness, cartridge length,
ogive length, three different occasions.
SK Rifle Match, CCI VMAX 17 hmr and CCI SV, a full brick each time.

Ran the results downrange over a chronograph for comparison.
Small samples had me hoping it was a useful excercise,
but the results after 500 shots, each time, indicated too much effort with minimal returns.

A later project had me tearing cartridges apart to
find out the variations in the component weights
Total cartridge, bullet, powder, primer, brass to 100th of a grain.
Try that one for an eye opening bit of education.
It turns out bullet and brass weights vary more than the powder and primer.
But the percentage variations by weight of powder/primer totals is surprising

Previous discussion...

Ammo Crapshoot

I know a few people on this forum have said this before, but I saw firsthand what a crapshoot rimfire ammo can be. I scored a brick of Center X this week and was excited to go see how awesome it would be in my Vudoo. I’ve shot Center X in it before with amazing results. Well, this lot kind of...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Alex Mason]

I have the Curex .22 lr 34 kit but haven't tried loading anything yet. But you are saying I can use that crimping die to upgrade my Norma ammo, right? Have you tried it on any other ammo?

The only other ammo I’ve ran through it was a couple bulk pack round (can’t remember the brand) no actual testing

I think sk standard plus is about the same price and shoots a little better than the Norma in all my rifles

I really like sk flat nose, but I tend to get some feeding issues out of the Bergara. It’s a tack driver with my daughters savage rascal

 

[chevy_man]

The Norma shot like garbage in every rifle I put it in.

One would be wise to invest their time elsewhere. Much higher returns. Buying ammo at $10/box instead of $6/box is going to get you better results.

 

[Alex Mason]

The Norma shot like garbage in every rifle I put it in.

One would be wise to invest their time elsewhere. Much higher returns. Buying ammo at $10/box instead of $6/box is going to get you better results.

The 3.5 hours is worth the $80 saved per 1k for sub moa at 100 for me. I try to shoot 50 every morning and it adds up

 

[AZ Dan]

Let me get this straight....

You have the money to spend on a $1k rifle in a $500 chassis with a $1,200 scope on it...shooting it past a $600 chronograph....and you are wasting your time sorting, measuring, and crimping a $6 box of ammo...all because you are on a "budget"?

Stop wasting your time and go buy a brick of Lapua Center-X.

Do you have targets for the ammo unsorted and uncrimped to compare to your sorted/crimped targets?

 

[Alex Mason]

Let me get this straight....

You have the money to spend on a $1k rifle in a $500 chassis with a $1,200 scope on it...shooting it past a $600 chronograph....and you are wasting your time sorting, measuring, and crimping a $6 box of ammo...all because you are on a "budget"?

Stop wasting your time and go buy a brick of Lapua Center-X.

Do you have targets for the ammo unsorted and uncrimped to compare to your sorted/crimped targets?

Yeah I’m on a budget because I’ve bought all of those things, and yes the targets reflect the same percentile improvement of groupings as the reduction of sd. Jesus Christ what is it with you haters? I tend to avoid forums due to fudds like you guys, but against my better I thought I would share my findings. I hope someone in the future finds this information useful. I wish you the best of luck in life ya bunch of yankee Marshall know it all turds.

 

[AZ Dan]

Yeah I’m on a budget because I’ve bought all of those things, and yes the targets reflect the same percentile improvement of groupings as the reduction of sd. Jesus Christ what is it with you haters? I tend to avoid forums due to fudds like you guys, but against my better I thought I would share my findings. I hope someone in the future finds this information useful. I wish you the best of luck in life ya bunch of yankee Marshall know it all turds.

It's your time, and you can waste it as you see fit, but many of us have tried the same exact same thing you are currently doing and realized after much analysis that it is simply easier and more efficient to purchase better ammo to begin with. You can't polish a turd into a diamond. You can spend as much time as you would like to sort, measure, weigh, and crimp however many rounds you want, but in the end it will never create better ammo than just spending a few extra dollars a box in the first place.

Proof is in the before and after targets...which you haven't shared or mentioned the group size(s).

Do you know if your rifle even likes Norma 22 Tac? Have you done testing with other types of ammo? Most reports I read on this forum and many others say the B14R isn't a real fan of Norma 22 Tac, including my experience with the ammo in my B14R. Lapua and SK ammo tends to do the best in the Bergara chamber.

In the end, and again...lots of us have done this...you are only controlling for one of MANY variables in rimfire ammo accuracy, and arguably the least important variable, rim thickness. What is the spread or SD of the your rim thickness variance? You said 65% of the rounds measured were at 0.041"...what were the other 35%? Maybe your rifle will like a rim thickness of 0.038" better....maybe 0.045". Have you tested that?

 

[Criver600]

My Winchester 52C likes RWS R50. Tac22 is a lower grade RWS but I can easily clean a stage with this ammo. No need for me to uniform Tac 22. If your rifle likes it run it

 

[justin amateur]

Welcome to the internet Alex.
Every comment made is open for discussion and opinions.

I don't mind being described as a cartoon character with a love for hunting wascally wabbits.

Nope, not a Yankee Marshal, just an amateur who tries the accuracy tips that are recommended
in order to determine if they actually do improve results on target...sadly, many are just wishful thinking.
In other cases the supposed tips for improvement turn out to be based on a single box of cartridges.
Small samples tested produce unreliable results. Method of testing can affect the outcome.
Failure to document the testing and include the documentation along with y'er opinions
can result in comments pointing out the lack of supporting data. Ask me how I learned that tidbit.


A thought or two for y'er perusal...

If weight sorting produced useful results, don't you think the manufacturer's would do so?
It'd be an easy way to increase the consistency of the trajectories with minimal expense.

Checking rim thickness at the factory to improve accuracy?
You don't think if it did make a difference, every company wouldn't do so?
Another way to increase profits by charging more for the ammunition.

Cartridge length? Ogive length?

Manufacturers test, and use, every method that works in order to improve ammunition quality.
If it doesn't work or doesn't produce reliable results, it isn't used.
Why spend money on processes that aren't worth the expense?

Just some thoughts, ready for opposing comments.

 

[chevy_man]

Yeah I’m on a budget because I’ve bought all of those things, and yes the targets reflect the same percentile improvement of groupings as the reduction of sd. Jesus Christ what is it with you haters? I tend to avoid forums due to fudds like you guys, but against my better I thought I would share my findings. I hope someone in the future finds this information useful. I wish you the best of luck in life ya bunch of yankee Marshall know it all turds.

Time is the most valuable asset we have. Which is why it's only the old retired fudd types at the range that keep telling me about sorting ammo. Then they have trouble hitting targets past 150 because their ammo still sucks.

Like the guy with a Vudoo that gets pissy every time I beat him. He shoots sk standard, because he's too cheap to buy better ammo. $5k into the gun and optic and he loses every match at the targets past 100 yards because his ammo is falling apart.



You can waste all your time that you want. Many of us just know it's cheaper to buy the better ammo.

 

[MarkCZ]

Hello, after plenty of searching for answers for ways to make shooting precision 22lr affordable, I’ve developed my “baller on a budget” process, and thought I would contribute to the community.
Gear- Bergara B14r carbon barrel in a MDT XRS chassis. 30 MOA base, 20 MOA Athlon 34 mm cantilever mount, Athlon Ares ETR 4.5 to 30x. LabRadar chronograph with remote trigger.

Process- I sort Norman tac 22 by rim thickness (of the 2k I have processed 65% measure .041”) I then take the ammo measuring at .041” and crimp to the highest available crimp with a cutting edge 22lr crimp die. ( crimping at this level has shown a 16% reduction in SD from factory crimp when compared to equivalent rim thickness)

Testing method- 25 round groups at 50 yards. 3 groups (factory crimp 14.3 sd, medium crimp 14.1 sd, heavy crimp 12 sd)
Hope this helps

Alex,
Not a hater here. Norma Tac and Rifle match shoots good at 50 yds, but has a lot of vertical past that, in my guns. What is your ES for the rounds you have crimped vs not crimped? The ES, is what I look for, it will show the vertical spread at long range. Are you seeing accuracy improvements? Have you checked sd/es before crimping?
Mark

 

[b6graham]

$80. 3.5 hours. yeahhh my time is worth WAY more than $23 an hour

how does the sorted ammo shoot at 200y?

 

[Manning5R]

I tried weight sorting two bricks of RWS rifle match. I basically ended up with the 3rd std deviation heavy (about 50 rds) and light (about 100 rds), then the bulk of the ammo in the middle.

I shot 5 12 round groups over a chrono. Two groups of the middle weights, one of the extra light, one extra heavy, and one that had 6 of each extra light and extra heavy.

The group of mixed weights had the best group and chrono numbers. LOL.

 

[littlesister]

Hello, after plenty of searching for answers for ways to make shooting precision 22lr affordable, I’ve developed my “baller on a budget” process, and thought I would contribute to the community.
Gear- Bergara B14r carbon barrel in a MDT XRS chassis. 30 MOA base, 20 MOA Athlon 34 mm cantilever mount, Athlon Ares ETR 4.5 to 30x. LabRadar chronograph with remote trigger.

Process- I sort Norman tac 22 by rim thickness (of the 2k I have processed 65% measure .041”) I then take the ammo measuring at .041” and crimp to the highest available crimp with a cutting edge 22lr crimp die. ( crimping at this level has shown a 16% reduction in SD from factory crimp when compared to equivalent rim thickness)

Testing method- 25 round groups at 50 yards. 3 groups (factory crimp 14.3 sd, medium crimp 14.1 sd, heavy crimp 12 sd)
Hope this helps

Trying to sort cheap ammo by measuring and weighing does not work and really is a waist of time. Thats why most of the replys to your OP are negative. Many shooters have tried sorting myself included and have found out the hard way to forget it. Here's why your weighing and measuring methods don't work. Ignition!!!. The cheaper the ammo the more inconsistent the ignition is. Primer compound is not dispersed evenly in the rim and the amount of primer varies from bullet to bullet. There is no way to detect this even by weighing.

 

[AZ Dan]

I apologize if my comment was negative...It reads harsher than hearing it in a conversation. You can download an Internet Hurt Feelings Report and submit it in triplicate.

There are simply too many variables in rimfire ammunition that contribute to accuracy...not to mention the rifle that is firing it and the person attached to the finger pulling the trigger.

Bullet weight, bullet shape, powder charge, primer charge, primer distribution, neck tension/crimp, and rim thickness. Then the rifle; firing pin shape/size, primer strike force, bolt head squareness, breach face squareness, chamber shape, rifling, crown, barrel length. I'm sure there a few others that I am missing.

The point is this; sorting ammo by only one of those variables isn't going to do jack sh!t to your group size. There are only two factors that really equate to group size that the shoot controls....the quality of your rifle and the quality of your ammo.

 

[justin amateur]

We might need to give up on groups as a method of testing ammunition.

Instead, if'n y'er gonna claim the improvement, show ya' can hit what you aim at.

Maybe a couple of Green Monsters, or a Grid 50 at 50 yards.

That'd be one way to prove the ammunition is better.
50 shots on center, instead of a couple of 5 shot groups that are nowhere near point of aim.

 

[SwatchDog]

This is a pretty good test of ammo, nerves, and being able to hit what you're aiming at:

We have started doing a grouping competition where the center POA dot is printed inside a .224 circle and is counted as your first shot. This forces you to be able to hit what your are aiming at - not just to be able to hammer the same hole repeatedly. In the below example, Shooter 1 on top row puts 3 in a good group but is right of POA bull. Shooter 2 on bottom row throws exact same group but because he's closer to the bull he wins that round. Tiebreaker for the overall card is the tightest group (including the bull).

We alternate who goes first in each round (6 total rounds per card) alternating between each shot. Sighters allowed anytime, as long as you call them prior to shooting. The fun is that you can see your opponent's performance which puts ENORMOUS pressure on you as the card progresses. We bracket competitors like pro sports playoffs. Lots of fun. Heckling is encouraged. We have found that 3 shot groups keeps the match moving and makes a match not too costly on ammo. Hope this isn't off topic.

 

[Deodand]

Hope this helps

I've had surprisingly good results with early lots of Tac-22 so I'm interested to see how other people do with it. Keep it up, if I get time I might try sorting some ammo...

 

[Gjmen22]

Yeah I’m on a budget because I’ve bought all of those things, and yes the targets reflect the same percentile improvement of groupings as the reduction of sd. Jesus Christ what is it with you haters? I tend to avoid forums due to fudds like you guys, but against my better I thought I would share my findings. I hope someone in the future finds this information useful. I wish you the best of luck in life ya bunch of yankee Marshall know it all turds.

Alex, don't ever let anyone discourage you from what you want to do. And I think AZ Dan was just trying to tell you about his findings. Please post some pictures of your results, there are many of us here that would like to see your data.

Gjmen

 

[Seymour Fish]

I've had surprisingly good results with early lots of Tac-22 so I'm interested to see how other people do with it. Keep it up, if I get time I might try sorting some ammo...

Yea, Buddy ! Competed with a good lot #. Same holds true for Fed semiauto and sk plus, a good lot is a good Lot.

 

[357Max]

I uniform the Norma tack by pulling the ones that look like this. To be fair there aren't many.

Aside from the odd round that looks like it was chewed on, they shoot very well in my B14R.
SK LR is always better by about 20% guessing. If I get the right lot of Eley Tenex #1080 +, it wins.