I am a huge fan of my Holosun 510, and Sig Romero 5s, the SPARC 2 is ok imho, but these are range toys, not truck guns, for a truck gun I would only use a Trijicon anything, I base this solely on battery life, and almost bulletproof reliability.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Update- (3/31/23)- What Red dot for 11.5” SBR?
- Thread starter hafejd30
- Start date
Sig Romeo 4T is imo the best bang for your buck "duty grade optic"/approved by branches of our government for use red dot, along with the best features of any red dot on the market currently. If you ever want to run a magnifier the bdc drop reticle option is really nice, battery life is phenomenal, extremely rugged build. I run mine with the clear flip covers up because the glass is so clear and the caps don't interfere with it. Reticle is also extremely crisp to my eyes. Just my experience (and my brother in law who purchased one at the same time). I have mine in my 11.5 with a vortex micro magnifier and love that set up.
Amazon product ASIN B07D97CTNC
Amazon product ASIN B07D97CTNC
Last edited:
Yea depending on the design, it does effect FOV. And not all red dot shooting is heads up both eyes open. If I am taking an aimed shot at longer distance, im getting cheek weld, NTCH, closing my eye and breaking the shot.
The PRO and legacy style aimpoints do give you a better FOV and not that looking through a straw feel the smaller ones do. I also think they are a bit more parallax free since they don't have to cram so much in a small footprint.
Either work its totally personal preference. I love the Comp M5 but I can almost buy 3 legacy aimpoints for the price of one of them. Not worth it IMO. I would rather buy used aimpoints for $200-300, stick in a $60 GDI mount or leave in a PRO mount and rock on.
The PRO and legacy style aimpoints do give you a better FOV and not that looking through a straw feel the smaller ones do. I also think they are a bit more parallax free since they don't have to cram so much in a small footprint.
Either work its totally personal preference. I love the Comp M5 but I can almost buy 3 legacy aimpoints for the price of one of them. Not worth it IMO. I would rather buy used aimpoints for $200-300, stick in a $60 GDI mount or leave in a PRO mount and rock on.
I believe the FBI adopted the 4T
Between the RDS and PRO what’s your opinion?
One day I'll get a XPS2 for my shorty, it's not my favorite optic but it just looks right on a short AR.
It's under the approved for use list through the DOJ(and maybe DOD now?) and is in operation in law enforcement (FBI). It's also been adopted by the Spanish military for combat. It's in use by the British SAS in some capacity (Craighead). Something I found recently that I can't verify myself but wouldn't surprise me with the adoption of the Sig tango 6T line is that supposedly they are in use with delta force but there was never an official announcement. According to this guy...(also I think there are a couple pictures floating around the net)
SIG ROMEO4T Red Dot Review - Firearms News
James Tarr examines SIG Sauer's military tough Romeo4T red dot sight and why it's popular with certain high-speed military units!
www.firearmsnews.com
"The ROMEO4T is built so tough, with such great features, that SFOD-D (otherwise known as Delta Force) recently adopted it. This was not announced, but I know people who know people. The SpecOps community is like a small town, everybody knows everybody’s business, which leads me to this tidbit….You know that SAS trooper who went all Die Hard on the terrorists inside the hotel in Nairobi a year ago? Not only is his official nickname Obi-Wan Nairobi, but the optic spotted on his carbine was a SIG ROMEO4T. Don’t think that wasn’t noticed. This sight is also being used by several federal law enforcement agencies."
*Again I do not know for sure if the last part is true* But if it's good enough for any of the prior militaries or agency I think it's good enough for me. The biggest perk is #1 it's street price can be found for low (relatively) currently. #2 it's a very rugged optic by all accounts and specs. #3 Battery life with the solar feature is 100,000 hours estimated (it's not like a holosun where you have to run solar mode, you manually adjust for brightness and if the solar can't power that brightness it switches to battery without any sign of flickering or "auto shifting"). #4 Motac or shake awake. #5 Multi reticles, I like this for the doughnut of death for my mechanical hold over but I also turn on the bdc for distance when using my magnifier. Overall I think its a really awesome buy at the lower prices. But of course I equally acknowledge others a excellent (aimpoint, eotech etc.) The Sig is nice because it's coming in at a lower price (not as much in MSRP) but on the street if your willing to search.
Last edited:
I’ve had Aimpoint T2s and Comp M4/5s. Eotechs in a few different flavors. Most recently a EXPS-3 on an LMT. But since Ive been using the Gen 2 Huey on my 10.5sbr I don’t see myself going back to the others. Say what you want about Vortex but they got a winner on this one. My rifle gets thrown in tractor buckets, truck beds, thrown around and beat the fuck up and the optic hasn’t missed a beat.
I personally like slightly larger windows for awkward positions but that’s a preference thing. Aim points and trijicon mros are both very good. If you want more eotech like window with better battery look at the sig Romeo 8, I have a couple and they have held up well.
I've never had one, but Karl at Tactical Rifleman has been showing off Primary Arms Micro Prism. I think he does reviews alot like Frank. No bullshit. Its 1x and the size of a red dot, but has the benefit of a visible aimpoint even if batteries are dead. Also, because its a prism, I think you can adjust the ocular end for your eyes to keep aiming donut or whatever it is clear, which you can't do with a red dot. PA also has a new 3x magnifier that is tiny, you can put that togheter with the micro prism and the whole thing is the size of the old eotechs. Seems like that would be a good fit for a truck gun. IDK if its made in China, probably lol.
It's not. It's assembled in the US in the Oregon factory like the Sig tango 6T. Where every part comes from in that assembly I am not sure. I have heard that for all the "T" lines for SIG it's out of Japan. Again these are in operation in a duty role around the world and it looks like they will be used more and more.
Last edited:
I was going to rag on AImpoint for being overpriced as shit, but the Duty RDS might be perfect. 400-500 for an aimpoint is g2g. 800 and they can F off and I'll just buy replacement Vortex at a MUCH cheaper price.
My aimpoint shit goes tits up just like everything else. I can get 4 sparcs for 1 aimpoint micro these days. (I had early gen micros. They were nice, but they aren't $800 nice).
Aimpoint PRO is also a good value.
My aimpoint shit goes tits up just like everything else. I can get 4 sparcs for 1 aimpoint micro these days. (I had early gen micros. They were nice, but they aren't $800 nice).
Aimpoint PRO is also a good value.
Last edited:
Mine was to the point I would have to use the front sight post to “dot the i” when shooting at 50 yards. At 100+ I stopped using the red dot and used the irons. MRO field of view is great, but it’s all downhill after that IMO
Good to know
I'm sure its components are sourced from all over, just like everything else these days. And that's OK.
aimpoint micro.
you will buy it and never want anything ells. I have had 2 for 8 or 9 years.. have been used on 3 or 4 different uppers. you will keep the optic longer than the upper if you buy right
you will buy it and never want anything ells. I have had 2 for 8 or 9 years.. have been used on 3 or 4 different uppers. you will keep the optic longer than the upper if you buy right
It’s great it’s just bigger and heavier than the micros. I vote T1 or T2. I have one of each along with a MRO. T1 is my favorite followed by the T2.
I use to have a Pro and it was great just got rid of it because of the size.
The updated DPP is a decent open emitter optic, but the OP posted on closed emitter optics.
I had a aimpoint pro at one point in time becaee I did not want to spend the money on a T1 at that moment... one day I got a T1 sold my pro and never looked back.. now I have 3 t1 or t2. Most if my frends have "had " pros.
I like I can leave an aimpoint on all the time for my nightstand gun and truck gun. have never had a or seen a comp m5. An EoTech may be faster and better becase of my stigmatizm. But not having to turn it on if I need the rifle in a pinch is worth it .
I like I can leave an aimpoint on all the time for my nightstand gun and truck gun. have never had a or seen a comp m5. An EoTech may be faster and better becase of my stigmatizm. But not having to turn it on if I need the rifle in a pinch is worth it .
Just my opinion, but the Romeo 4T is sadly underappreciated and under used. The only reason I care is that you can save valuable coin right now but still get aimpoint type reliability/ruggedness but with some other useful features. I forgot to mention before that the 4T will remain on (if there is enough ambient light) even if there is no battery in it. If your looking for a more micro red dot I think this is it unless you just have to have the word "Aimpoint or Eotech" on the side. I'll say this though, be sure and get the ballistic circle dot not the circle plex unless you don't mind essentially a "cross hair" reticle vs a 2 moa dot (or Eotech reticle/bdc). I've looked through both and the dot is my preference.
Last edited:
One of the most comprehensive tests of red dots I have seen. Long but worth it if your interested. *Note* there are some optics missing from this as this was in 2018 and the music is to loud lol.
After looking at many options I’m torn between the Aimpoint RDS and the Sig Romeo 4T. I don’t suppose anyone has real experience with both??
I really like the PRO as well but think it’s a bit large for my 11.5” SBR
@DeathBeforeDismount anyway to verify the 4T is all American made and not Chinese parts assembled in the US?
My gut says Aimpoint
I really like the PRO as well but think it’s a bit large for my 11.5” SBR
@DeathBeforeDismount anyway to verify the 4T is all American made and not Chinese parts assembled in the US?
My gut says Aimpoint
There is no way to verify officially unless you get ahold of Andy from Sig whose over electro optics. According to a guy on soldiersystems.com he talked to him and Andy said its assembled in the US using parts from Japan. But that's not official gospel. The Sig 4T is in duty use in an official capacity, tested for it, the new Aimpoint is not and is marketed for the average cop(not saying thats bad it's just not their upper echelon mil marketed dot, though for all I know it's just as rugged, point is we don't know), just for clarity. There is no reason to get the new Aimpoint budget option with the lack of features comparatively. If your gonna get an Aimpoint go with the proven T1 or T2. Or if your on the fence, buy both and send the one you like least back. I've messed with the T1/T2 btw, and I would choose (as I did) the Romeo 4T all day even if price was the same. Now I haven't messed with the 4T or T2s under night vision. But you just get way to many extras and nifty features to ignore in my mind. Just again my opinion. Ultimately buy what makes you comfortable and what you'll love.
Last edited:
If one wants true duty rated, true water proof, best reliability AND durability in a closed emitter optic- it's Aimpoint all day. Made in Sweden.
Based on Sig's own print, it appears the Romeo 4T is "assembled in USA". It has features some may/may not consider gimmicks. It seems like a decent choice.
If the parts in the Romeo 4T are from Japan (and not china)- they'd put that in print on the box to dispel the china angle.
OP, the ball is in your court.
Based on Sig's own print, it appears the Romeo 4T is "assembled in USA". It has features some may/may not consider gimmicks. It seems like a decent choice.
If the parts in the Romeo 4T are from Japan (and not china)- they'd put that in print on the box to dispel the china angle.
OP, the ball is in your court.
Last edited:
I understand what your saying with aimpoint as far as longevity of provenness, but I don't see how we can't attribute most of the points in your first paragraph to the 4T as it literallys "duty rated"(by agencies and foreign militaries, and rumored by delta Force), waterproof, made of the most rugged 7075 aluminum etc etc, obviously it's not made in Sweden which is by definition imported as well.
As far as the bit about china and them putting it on the label that is uses no Chinese parts, that cannot be assumed with Sig..for example, the Sig Tango 6T is made from L.O.W. Japan parts and assembled in the US (confirmed) however, Sig brands its the same as the 4T "Assembled in the US in Oregon". So, to that point, that cannot be said. The understanding across everyone I have read not in a forum is that the "T" line in SIG optics is not coming out of china as they are aiming for government contracts (and are getting them) and the price (MSRP) reflects this. I wish we could get something official for sure. Again, get what you like, but I think the idea that the 4T is just a parts kit to spec out of holosuns factory is the assumption of many and their is no reason to believe that, it's only thought that because Sigs lower tier stuff has been specd there. Many other optics companies have varying priced optics and different tiers that go from China OMEd, to Japanese OEMd, to assembled in the US to the "Best" made in the US. Most everyones LPVOs they love are Japanese OMEd to spec, but here is a Red dot that is Assembled in the US and it's treated as Chinese second class stuff and people are told to buy european. I find that interesting. I get why, because we don't officially know, but with the agencies adopting it and the price, logic to me lends itself to not being holosun parts kits put together in 15 minutes in Oregon.
Last edited:
Let me give you guys some insight about component sourcing from someone in a related industry (electromagnetics).............
There is no way you're going to avoid some level of Chinese content in electronic products, particularly consumer electronics. Even domestic sourcing laws and regulations that apply to most military and government contracts have exceptions for materials that can't be sourced from any place but China.
Also, stop wasting your time if you think you're going to get some sort of declaration of parts content by country of origin. The only customers who get that information are very large institutional buyers with sophisticated contract terms (i.e. the US Government). Anyone else gets told to pound sand.
There is no way you're going to avoid some level of Chinese content in electronic products, particularly consumer electronics. Even domestic sourcing laws and regulations that apply to most military and government contracts have exceptions for materials that can't be sourced from any place but China.
Also, stop wasting your time if you think you're going to get some sort of declaration of parts content by country of origin. The only customers who get that information are very large institutional buyers with sophisticated contract terms (i.e. the US Government). Anyone else gets told to pound sand.
Yeah, I believe this. Aimpoints still have to use cr2032 batteries that are atleast in part all coming from Chinese materials from my understanding. So the power source that the optic requires and matters most is dependent on china. Just some perspective.
Basic internet etiquette begs the question: "ever hear of paragraphs?" 
I agree. But for JDB55 to keep saying 'parts from Japan' on nothing more than "a guy heard from another guy"- is a weak claim. It's like claiming that cr2032 batteries marked "Made in USA" or "Made in Japan" are actually coming from China. It's all just a bit annoying because he presents zero substantiation.
To JDB55: Again, I think the Romeo 4T is a decent optic and wouldn't be a bad choice for the OP. But I find your unsubstantiated claim of "Japanese parts" a bit annoying- and frankly, unnecessary. I certainly didn't say the 4T was chinese junk, and you and I both agree that some chinese parts are inevitable in almost all electronics- so why so adamant that the 4T is Japanese and not chinese parts?
Last edited:
Haha, I gave you two, not sure what else you want in a forumBasic internet etiquette begs the question: "ever hear of paragraphs?"
I have been clear saying that is not substantiated. But it's equally not substantiated it's from China. The point I made about the Tango 6T is what I personally believe is going on with the 4T, but regardless I find it interesting that many people don't realize the 4T is being used as prominently as it is at home and abroad. It might have some sourced Chinese circuitry, but I would think most have something of that as not many places in the world do that type of stuff. What I said was I don't think it's a straihht parts kit from the holosun factory (though it "could be").
That's the only reason I share this, because I've done the research and it can help peeps save money. That's my only agenda. If people want to buy the aimpoint it's fantastic for what it is.
To be fair to what you said about annoyance, it can be equally annoying when people say "it has to be from China" when they have 0 evidence as well. It doesn't annoy me personally, it's just not fair to others who are inquiring about it. To me the most important thing is federal agencies and militaries testing it and using it, if it's good enough for them, I think we should be able to tell people it's a "duty grade", reliability tested optic, atleast until we get information that they are being taken out of rotation due to failure.
P.S. no animosity on my end, I do apologize if someone took my opinion/possibility about Japanese parts as 100% fact, I tried to be clear.
Last edited:
Specs for both from their respective webpages:
Romeo 4T
DETAILS
- Designed for modern semi-automatic pistols, MSR platforms and shotguns
- Short and medium range engagements and recreational shooting across a wide range of calibers and light conditions
- Fully ruggedized and impact resistant for the toughest environments
- Ultra durable and lightweight 7075 aluminum main housing and components, 1.41" riser mount with additional lower 1/3 co-witness spacer
- Comes standard with see-through lens covers and hex bolt mount
- Complete Mil-Spec 810G testing, submersible up to 20 meters
- Runtime in excess of 100,000 hours with solar and battery usage
- Ballistic Circle-Dot and Ballistic CirclePlex reticle options
- Users can select from 4 different integrated reticle options (Dot, Circle-Dot, Dot with Holds, Circle-Dot with Holds)
- Unlimited eye relief to acquire aiming point and target, regardless of eye position behind sight.
- MOTAC (Motion Activated Illumination) powers up or down when sensing motion
- Uses an ultra-efficient red LED illumination for daylight visibility and extended runtime
- Bolt mount included
- Strong, lightweight 7075 Aluminum housing
- Waterproof, IPX-8 rated, and fog-proof.
Aimpoint Duty RDS
Romeo 4T
DETAILS
- Designed for modern semi-automatic pistols, MSR platforms and shotguns
- Short and medium range engagements and recreational shooting across a wide range of calibers and light conditions
- Fully ruggedized and impact resistant for the toughest environments
- Ultra durable and lightweight 7075 aluminum main housing and components, 1.41" riser mount with additional lower 1/3 co-witness spacer
- Comes standard with see-through lens covers and hex bolt mount
- Complete Mil-Spec 810G testing, submersible up to 20 meters
- Runtime in excess of 100,000 hours with solar and battery usage
- Ballistic Circle-Dot and Ballistic CirclePlex reticle options
- Users can select from 4 different integrated reticle options (Dot, Circle-Dot, Dot with Holds, Circle-Dot with Holds)
- Unlimited eye relief to acquire aiming point and target, regardless of eye position behind sight.
- MOTAC (Motion Activated Illumination) powers up or down when sensing motion
- Uses an ultra-efficient red LED illumination for daylight visibility and extended runtime
- Bolt mount included
- Strong, lightweight 7075 Aluminum housing
- Waterproof, IPX-8 rated, and fog-proof.
Aimpoint Duty RDS
- 2 MOA red dot for precision and fast target acquisition
- Battery life: 30,000 hours (over 3 years) of constant operation with one battery on setting 7
- Battery type: CR2032 battery (included)
- One-piece Torsion Nut Mount
- Flip-up lens covers – front is solid, and rear is transparent
- Advanced optical lenses for enhanced light transmission and ultimate dot clarity
- Windage and elevation adjustments are flush mounted and waterproof - eliminating the need for protective caps
- Hard anodized non-reflective surface
- 10 brightness settings: 1 off position, 4 night vision compatible settings, and 6 daylight settings
- 1X (non-magnifying) operationally parallax free optic
- Submersible to 80 feet (25 meters)
- Temperature span -49°F to +160°F
- Weight 3.8 oz / 108 g (sight only)
- Length x Width x Height 2.7 x 1.5 x 1.7 in / 68 x 37 x 43 mm
Same here brotha- I think we're both on the same page- "don't buy shooting related, finished products from CCP companies like HS or OLyte"!
Not sure how a "small" RDS suddenly becomes less usable in the "real world". Aim with both eyes open, put the dot over the target, fire. Repeat as necessary.
My Aimpoint Micro H1 has been the primary optic on my 11.5" AR for years, and I never once felt like it was any less capable than my EOTech XPS2. At least with the Aimpoint I know the battery is going to be alive when I need it.
OP - Don't overlook a used Aimpoint Micro if you're in the market for a lightweight optic that you can trust in a worst-case-scenario. EOTech makes great optics, but for a weapon that sits in the safe for long stretches of time, Aimpoint was the clear choice for me. YMMV.
Interesting, I went the opposite way. I love my CompM5. If I was using my gun constantly in a true duty or fighting application I would enjoy an EoTech. Otherwise I enjoy the longer battery life and the battery commonality of the CompM5 as it just uses a regular AAA battery.
I would personally buy whatever used RDS I could find that says "Aimpoint" on the side. I would not at all hesitate to grab a used CompM4, I think the Army contract ones had a different name that I can't remember. The PRO is a true Aimpoint, it's just a slightly larger/heavier version than their Micro's. The new Patrol series looks killer. The T1 / T2 / H1 / H2 are bombproof (The H series does not have night vision compatibility settings and has a slightly lower, but still excellent, water submersion rating, and comes with a clear front cap vs the T series black front cap).
I think the baller solution is the CompM5. I love mine. If I used it a lot and wanted the best close range optic I'd grab an EoTech, it might be just a hair better in fuction at the exchange of much poorer battery life.
I think the baller solution is the CompM5. I love mine. If I used it a lot and wanted the best close range optic I'd grab an EoTech, it might be just a hair better in fuction at the exchange of much poorer battery life.
Ok,
As the OP if you were me what would you choose,
The Aimpoint PRO- Proven reliable but a bit large for what I want
Aimpoint RDS- The newest potential greatest thing. Not proven but it is an Aimpoint and doubt they’d release a dud.
Sig Romeo 4T- The latest/greatest and would work excellent for what I want. My only experience is the Romeo 5’s which have been great despite being Chinese made
The field of view of the Romeo 5 hasn’t bothered me. So something close to that is just fine
I want reliable to -25° which is realistic for where I live and something that can get thrown around without worry
I’m seriously torn but looking hard at the RDS and 4T
As the OP if you were me what would you choose,
The Aimpoint PRO- Proven reliable but a bit large for what I want
Aimpoint RDS- The newest potential greatest thing. Not proven but it is an Aimpoint and doubt they’d release a dud.
Sig Romeo 4T- The latest/greatest and would work excellent for what I want. My only experience is the Romeo 5’s which have been great despite being Chinese made
The field of view of the Romeo 5 hasn’t bothered me. So something close to that is just fine
I want reliable to -25° which is realistic for where I live and something that can get thrown around without worry
I’m seriously torn but looking hard at the RDS and 4T
I understand what you’re say, 3A batteries are everywhere and the battery life is significantly bette. But most of my lights etc run on 123A batterie. I did store a couple energizer lithiums in my pistol grip because last one I had only lasted about 6 months, not sure what setting. But it was stored on in the safe and it annoyed me that it was dead.
Similar threads
