Rifle Scopes **Update** How much chromatic aberration is accceptable in a Steiner T5Xi?

[smoothy8500]

I recently picked up a Steiner T5Xi 5-25 (used) and was surprised by the amount of CA in the 10x thru 25x range. I have no complaints about clarity or detail at distances 800 thru 1100yds, really good resolution actually. For years I have used and still own several Leupold Mk 4's such as the 8.5-25X and fixed 16x, and they have almost no CA. With this Steiner for example, at 25X using black NRA F-class targets at 300yds, the purple and yellow bands are easily .2 to .4 mils wide. I had read that the Steiner's have "some" CA, but perhaps I was unprepared for this amount. If this is considered normal or expected I can live with it since the overall clarity is good.

 

[Birddog6424]

How much can be "expected" is a tough call. I'm not sure what the standard for the manufacturer would be.

What you can tolerate is entirely up to you. The simplest next best step would be to contact Steiner and share your concerns with them.

 

[matchman]

I could not tolerate it. Back it went.

 

[lennyo3034]

Mine has more than my other scopes at a higher price point but I could tolerate it.

 

[supercorndogs]

 

[psychosniper]

It comes down to how well the rifle/scope height fits you and how much CA you can handle personally. While the T5Xi does exhibit CA, I would call that amount of CA above normal but then again, I dont have your scope to compare to mine.

There have been many reports of some of them having much worse CA control than others. The two T5Xi’s I have both show the same amount of CA from 15x-25x while at the same time providing good resolution and contrast. The amount of CA they exhibit is greatly increased based on how far off center my eye is behind the scope. The most I’ve noticed has been bands of purple in the .2 to maybe .3 mil width range during the brightest of days from white 66% IPSC targets. Normally it’s no more than .2 wide. For me, .3 wide fringing is where it becomes annoying but in no way has it caused any other problems for me.

I bought both of the T5Xi’s as new/blemished units from CSTactical a couple of years ago and for that price, I can tolerate the CA just fine. Everything else about them is solid. Edge to edge resolution and contrast hold together well throughout erector travel and low light performance is on par if not slightly above the Gen II Razor I have.

 

[acudaowner]

anyone could make a lemon , It does not mean its all a bad product . It should be more about the companies willingness to fix that problem or at least try , Got to hand it to vortex in that regard any problem , any time they will fix or replace no problem .

 

[Kickin45]

If I’m not mistaken, and it’s a strong possibility I am so someone please correct me, but I think the early T5’s were basically the same design as the early XTRII. And that was a terrible scope. Can’t remember where I read that though. And I could be getting articles confused.

 

[Eoddave27]

I had one and I tried to use it when it snowed and the CA was so bad it actually interfeared with the image. It was as if everything was glowing purple in the scope. I sent it back and bought a different optic. I know a lot of people like the Steiner but I must of had a lemon and I was very underwhelmed with the one I bought.

 

[hk dave]

Had two 5-25s. They were from “prior” to whatever fixes they “implemented”.

For me, if you look up CA in the dictionary, it should be a photo of these scopes. ;D

 

[Birddog6424]

If I’m not mistaken, and it’s a strong possibility I am so someone please correct me, but I think the early T5’s were basically the same design as the early XTRII. And that was a terrible scope. Can’t remember where I read that though. And I could be getting articles confused.

They weren't the same scope. The XTR II was already on the market when Burris acquired Steiner. The T5Xi was pretty much different from the ground up. Different glass (German made), different turrets, different optical system, US versus Philippines manufacture.

If anything, I think it went the other way. Once the acquisition was complete, the XTR II saw some upgrades such as 10 mil turrets and began its trek towards better glass.

I think they have done a pretty good job at keeping the brands separate.

 

[smoothy8500]

The general consensus from this thread and some other conversations is that Steiner T5Xi's have a bit more CA than other scopes in the price range. That being said, it seems that quite a few scope brands suffer from CA when zoomed above 10X.

In looking to add PRS/Practical Precision matches to my normal F-class involvement required an upgrade to FFP scopes with a 10 mil per rotation elevation knob. I guess certain things need to be compromised on.

 

[ColdBlood]

I just recently purchased a T5xi 3-15x and a 5-25x. The 3-15x didn't last long enough for me to notice the CA because the reticle jumped about 2 mils when you start adjusting the power ring. Sent that one back, and the dealer didn't have another one, so I decided to jump up to the 5-25x since I had already been debating which one to go with.

Got the 5-25x scope Saturday, and again, wonky power ring. On this one the power ring on it sticks like crazy at 8x...enough to move the rifle off target if your bipod has a cant feature, which all of mine do. Still, I decided to mock it up and take a look through it to see if it's a scope I'd like to own a working version of. First thing I noticed was the chromatic aberration...and I had never read that about Steiner before. It was beyond dramatic - especially looking at light colored objects that weren't in focus - such as a field of light gold colored tall grass. A white picket fence at 100 yards started practically glowing when I started to focus on a tree at about 175-200 yards.

ETA - The scope I have is a new unit, and I will say this isn't glowing purple...it's just glowing and a bit hazy and poor light handling in general. It seems they've probably done something to have tamed the CA down from earlier "purple haze" versions described in this thread, but Steiner's CA problem is apparently far from fixed.

I brought out a Leupold Mk 6 3-18x, NF ATACR 7-35x and even a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15x to do side-by-side comparisons out to about 300 yards. Aside from the only one with noticeable CA of the bunch, the Steiner was noticeably dimmer than anything else, and the resolution also came in last place to my eyes. The light transmission in particular is astoundingly poor for a 33 oz. scope with a 34mm tube and 56mm objective. I have some Vortex Razor LH's that I didn't even bother getting out...different class of scope, half the weight, 40% of the price, and I already know they'll kick the Steiner's ass all over the place - badly. I no longer own any NXS now days, but they'd absolutely trounce the Steiner in every category except features. Anyway...for a $2199 scope, I expect much more.

I'm not particularly a fan of the Viper PST Gen 1 or Gen 2 series (QC issues abound in my experience), but I'd absolutely take a PST Gen II over the Steiner if I had to choose between the two...literally everything about the Vortex is better (to me anyway), and that's without taking into consideration the fact you can buy two PST's for the price of a Steiner.

Great looking scopes, great features, but it really seems to me that the quality of both the glass and the construction is amongst the worst of the worst at their price point.

And now I have a really nice set of $200 Steiner bubble level scope rings that I'll be mounting another Leupold or Nightforce in.

EDIT: The 5-25x is still sitting here. Dammit...what a sexy scope, awesome turrets, power throw lever, tenebrex covers....I keep thinking I really want to like the scope and that maybe I'm expecting too much from the glass...then I take another look through the glass again and think about how I could've bought a Vortex Razor Gen II or a Nightforce NX8 for a few hundred more. Bottom line, I will be happier with just about anything else at this price point. What a disappointment.

 

[patriot07]

Mine had a ton. I had no interest in a $1k+ scope with that poor level of optical quality, so I sold it and moved on. I did like the turrets and reticle, but the extreme purple fringing on everything just ruined it for me. In the $1k range, I prefer almost everything else. At its original price, it's inexcusably bad. But my tolerance for CA in expensive scopes is really low.

 

[smoothy8500]

After some back and forth with Steiner techs I sent in the scope for evaluation and will report back. This report on a new Leupy's CA and its repair/service prompted me to check with Steiner. The CA in this Leupy not as bad as my Steiner is.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/is-this-normal-ca-for-a-leupold-vx-6hd.6937941/

 

[thatguyouknow]

I might have gotten lucky as mine has some CA but nothing I would consider unacceptable for its price point. at $1600 new it beats out most scopes in that range.

 

[ruebarb]

I had one for a few days, after I mounted it, the reticle was way off, back it went to Optics Planet. I bought a Primary arms platinum 6-30 instead, no regrets

 

[ForgeValley]

I don't consider myself picky where CA is concerned, and I had to send mine back. It was awful.

 

[Glassaholic]

I was an early adopter, I had one of the first 5-25's and 3-15's and both were some of the worst CA I've experienced in any scope so I sent them back, it's too bad because I love just about everything else in the scope, Steiner could use a Gen II with the T series. That being said, I was an early adopter with the Burris XTR II 4-20 and it had some optical issues that Burris has since fixed. I would take birddog's recommendation and contact Steiner and tell them it's really bad and see if they can't fix it for you.

 

[smoothy8500]

Just an update from Steiner. It appears the CA was excessive and they will be replacing my T5Xi scope with a new one. I will give an evaluation of the replacement when it arrives.

It's too bad that CA seems to be a common issue with this brand of scopes, especially considering the price-point.

 

[Glassaholic]

Just an update from Steiner. It appears the CA was excessive and they will be replacing my T5Xi scope with a new one. I will give an evaluation of the replacement when it arrives.

That is fantastic news and encouraging for others who might be interested in this scope, please let us know what you think of the new one.

 

[Wyzrd]

I’ve owned 2 of the 5-25’s, and no longer have either. I loved everything about them except the damn CA in them!!! If Steiner could fix that issue alone, these scopes would be great! Til then, there are far better options in that price range.

 

[SlimySquirrel]

If you’re asking then it sounds like ‘less than the amount that your scopes have’...

 

[lennyo3034]

I guess I'm lucky with mine. It has CA, but I don't think its too bad. I took it out to the 1000 yard range today and the only other scope I had with me was my ZP5. Although the Minox had the better image, I wasn't disappointed by the Steiner and did not notice CA (wasn't looking for it). Someone at the range had a NX8 4-32 and I was able to briefly look at it next to the T5xi. Surprisingly the T5xi had better image quality in my opinion.

 

[smoothy8500]

I received a replacement scope from Steiner. Checking it out against high contrast objects at various distances from 200 thru 800yds at 25X I can say the CA is minimal, and at 16X it is almost not noticeable. This replacement scope meets my expectation for image quality within the price range.

I can't say if this is a new scope, purchase return, or a warranty repaired scope. The box was complete with all accessories but there was no serial number on the box like my original. Regardless, I am satisfied with the service from Steiner.

 

[lennyo3034]

I received a replacement scope from Steiner. Checking it out against high contrast objects at various distances from 200 thru 800yds at 25X I can say the CA is minimal, and at 16X it is almost not noticeable. This replacement scope meets my expectation for image quality within the price range.

I can't say if this is a new scope, purchase return, or a warranty repaired scope. The box was complete with all accessories but there was no serial number on the box like my original. Regardless, I am satisfied with the service from Steiner.

Good to hear. I get the feeling the T5xi scopes have a lot of manufacturing variability. Mine has some CA, but not that much. I compared it to 2 Bushnell DMR2s and they both had significantly more than the T5xi.

Then there are others with horrendous CA.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

I received a replacement scope from Steiner. Checking it out against high contrast objects at various distances from 200 thru 800yds at 25X I can say the CA is minimal, and at 16X it is almost not noticeable. This replacement scope meets my expectation for image quality within the price range.

I can't say if this is a new scope, purchase return, or a warranty repaired scope. The box was complete with all accessories but there was no serial number on the box like my original. Regardless, I am satisfied with the service from Steiner.

What was the total turnaround time from when you sent it in to getting a replacement back? I plan on contacting Steiner about reticle clarity. I've adjusted the diopter properly, but the numbers and hash marks appear just a little blurry toward the outer edges (while clear in the center out to about 6 mils horizontally and vertically). CA seems to be tolerable (I've seen much worse) and I've had a chance to look at it with snow on the ground, which is the most extreme condition to assess CA in my opinion. I'm fortunate to have a balcony in my master bedroom and have a clear view of the rocky mountain front range and everything in between from my vantage point, to include residential areas, business areas, open areas, wooded areas, low ground, high ground, rural areas, etc. At first look, the purple bands appeared to be just a touch excessive for my liking (could be psychological because of the negative reviews I read about the CA), but then appeared to correct itself considerably when parallax was properly adjusted. Overall, just looking at different things at various ranges through the glass, CA appeared to be comparable to similarly priced optics I've owned and used (PA 6-30x, Vudu 5-25x, MK5HD 3.6-18x), which is tolerable and not a cause for concern. A little CA is present toward the edges, but not at the center of the reticle, and seems to be pretty well-controlled overall I'm guessing people who are new to optics and wouldn't know what CA is or what to look for would not notice it. So far I love everything about the scope in terms of build quality, features and aesthetics, just had some questions regarding losing reticle clarity towards the outer edges and whether or not it's normal for this scope. Thanks.

ETA: Looked through the glass again this morning and the number/hash clarity doesn't seem to be as extreme as when I first looked through it. Maybe my eyes were tired at the time. I guess I got lucky with an exceptional T5xi 5-25x. For the price I paid I'm not complaining.

 

[Glassaholic]

What was the total turnaround time from when you sent it in to getting a replacement back? I plan on contacting Steiner about reticle clarity. I've adjusted the diopter properly, but the numbers and hash marks appear blurry on the outer edges (while clear in the center out to about 6 mils horizontally and vertically). CA seems to be tolerable (I've seen worse) and I've had a chance to look at it with snow on the ground, which is the most extreme condition to assess CA in my opinion. Purple bands seemed to be excessive at first look, but appeared to correct itself when parallax was properly set. Overall, just looking at different things at various ranges through the glass, CA appeared to be comparable to similarly priced optics I've owned and used (PA 6-30x, Vudu 5-25x, MK5HD 3.6-18x), which is tolerable and not a cause for concern. Love everything else about the scope in terms of build quality, features and aesthetics, just had some questions regarding losing reticle clarity towards the outer edges and whether or not it's normal for this scope. Thanks.

Is it just the reticle that's blurry at the outer edge or is the image itself blurry on the edges? If just the reticle, aim the scope at a far object (between 500-1000yds) and adjust parallax accordingly, now fine tune the parallax +/- and see if you can get the reticle to behave properly (sharp edge to edge) and image sharp edge to edge. Now go back to looking at the sky quickly to ensure the reticle is still sharp after a quick look and not allowing your eyes to adjust.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

Is it just the reticle that's blurry at the outer edge or is the image itself blurry on the edges? If just the reticle, aim the scope at a far object (between 500-1000yds) and adjust parallax accordingly, now fine tune the parallax +/- and see if you can get the reticle to behave properly (sharp edge to edge) and image sharp edge to edge. Now go back to looking at the sky quickly to ensure the reticle is still sharp after a quick look and not allowing your eyes to adjust.

Just edited my post as you were replying.

 

[smoothy8500]

What was the total turnaround time from when you sent it in to getting a replacement back? I plan on contacting Steiner about reticle clarity. I've adjusted the diopter properly, but the numbers and hash marks appear just a little blurry toward the outer edges (while clear in the center out to about 6 mils horizontally and vertically).

Total turnaround was about 4 weeks, from time sent until back at my door. My replacement has a similar "slight blurriness" of the reticle at the outer edges, but the center is sharp. I don't recall the original scope exhibiting that, but the CA was so bad I never noticed. My current scope image or field of view is clear from edge to edge. I'm not bothered by the reticle since I dial windage and elevation for distance and typically have only used up to 2 mil of hold at any time for multiple targets.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

Total turnaround was about 4 weeks, from time sent until back at my door. My replacement has a similar "slight blurriness" of the reticle at the outer edges, but the center is sharp. I don't recall the original scope exhibiting that, but the CA was so bad I never noticed. My current scope image or field of view is clear from edge to edge. I'm not bothered by the reticle since I dial windage and elevation for distance and typically have only used up to 2 mil of hold at any time for multiple targets.

Good copy. I will be dialing for elevation and I'm not too concerned about the lack of uber reticle sharpness off-center. Just wanted to confirm mine wasn't an anomaly. It's acceptable for my purposes and I'll run it unless a real problem presents itself. Thanks. Charlie Mike

 

[JMGlasgow]

They weren't the same scope. The XTR II was already on the market when Burris acquired Steiner. The T5Xi was pretty much different from the ground up. Different glass (German made), different turrets, different optical system, US versus Philippines manufacture.

If anything, I think it went the other way. Once the acquisition was complete, the XTR II saw some upgrades such as 10 mil turrets and began its trek towards better glass.

I think they have done a pretty good job at keeping the brands separate.

Where are you getting your information? I worked at Burris when Beretta bought Steiner. Burris doesn't own anyone, they are part of Beretta and have been since 2002. When Steiner was bought in 2010ish the 1st Gen XTR scopes were still going strong, and the Steiner Military 4-16 and 3-12 were in development in Greeley by Burris engineers shortly after.

Burris and Steiner work together on lots of projects. The T5Xi and the XTR 2 share magnification range but that is pretty much it so you are correct there.

The XTR2 and the Viper PST2 have more in common and are built in the same place.