US Optics anti-cant device, making it right

[Garvey]

I ordered the swivel one from Midway for a grand price of $89.00 (now it's $95.00). The first one I ordered wasn't level. Being a welder I have welding stands that have adjustable height infinatly within their limits. I placed one end of a 4' level on a saw horse and the other on the welding stand. Once I got the level to read zero I rotated the level 180 degrees to verify the 4' level was accurate, it was dead nuts. I placed the US optics level on it and it was 1/2 a bubble out.

I sent the level back to Midway and they promptly sent another one. I repeated the same test to find the second level 1/8 bubble out of level.

My thoughts were the level was designed exactly like I wanted, had a reputable company's name on it, and was certainly not cheap for as small of a tool as it is. VERY DISAPOINTING!

I'm not upset with Midway USA at all, but I'm not impressed with US Optics in the making of this device.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

My experience is the same. The swivel version can loosen up and the clamp can introduce cant

 

[Mendocino]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Interesting. I was about to buy one of these. I think I will hold off a while.

 

[JALVI]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Just get a solid non swivel one. USO bubble is still good shit. I own two, and had them for over 5 yrs no probs. I also know plenty of people who would say the same thing too ( no probs). No need to start a shit throwing rant.

 

[glock24]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Same experience here. I now run the fixed version instead.

 

[waynea96]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I also had the swivel version. When tightening it down to the rail you could actually see the torque warping the unit out of level. Switched to a Vortex anti-cant.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

maybe ill show my ass here but cant you just adjust the level on the gun til i reads true when the gun is level?

 

[Mr Flannel]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Just go with the solid version, although that's no guarantee.

Or you could just accept that near enough is good enough and if you record where the bubble is when you know the rifle is at 0 cant, then you'll know when you're good. This is what I do with my US Optics solid versions, which are both slightly off.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

A scope level has always been one bell I have managed to do without.

I just use my mad ninja skills to hold my head level, the rest seems to follow right along.

Might be a point of pride or enough practise, but I also took down the landing approach system from the headboard years ago.

My wife still keeps the wave off paddles handy but more for her mood than my technique.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

They serve the pupose fine for me. I am not setting jigs with them. I just need a guide to get the rifle close to level and be consistent with it...that is good enough. I didn't think I needed one either until I used one. If you shoot all flat terrain probably negligible but if you shoot distance on uneven terrain you will be suprised how off your eye is most times....at least I am. I have checked every one I have gotten and they have had good accuracy. I can see where fitment to the base or torque could throw one off though

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Point is made the level is wrong!

No matter what you purchase you expect the product to be right.

USO supports the shooting industry more than most and there customer service is one of the best..... Yet if you purchase a product from them or anyone else for that matter if it is right.....the very first time you don't need great customer service

I would like to thank USO for supporting the shooting industry

I would also like to thank Halligan for starting this thread. He is being honest with his experience! I respect him for that.

I like to hear reviews both good and bad. Kinda let's you get the feeling your getting a honest review.

For the many people on the hide that take offense when someone post a negative review....get real....

I'll dont like spending my hard earned money on sub par equipment and I will not!

Thanks again for the review.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I have a scope mounted level, and due to my amateur mounting technique, I can't guarantee that it's not perfectly level, but it is damn close. I've found if I consistently put the bubble in the same place. my groups are a bit tighter.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Are we sure we are conducting a proper test? Placing the USO level on another level does not seem likely to produce valid results. The only surface on the USO that the bubble will match is the flat on the inside of the rail mount area. The outer body of the level is not required to be square and indeed I would not expect it to be so.

To test, you either need to mount it and level the rail surface, or have a square rail piece you could mount it on then place that on the level. Just using a plain scope rail may be invalid as well, unless you test it for squareness first.

I've had good results from mine, both fixed and folding. It's certainly possible these are bad, but the description of the test does not give me confidence in that assesment.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Holy crap...an eigth of a bubble out?!

You definitely wont hit shit if its that far out!

Did you make sure your rail if true the the bore/scope line?

Seriously, perfect is nice, but consistent is what is important. By its very nature, the swivel level will have a small bit of slop in it, it will still do what it is designed to do.

If one is way out, send it back, but really, an eigth of a bubble is pretty good.

 

[abizdafuzz]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Unless you leveled your 4' level with survey equipment and/or a laser and used a squared and trued base with squared and trued blocks and used proper mounting I'd say you can't even read a very good 1/8 of a bubble...I bet the 4' is out more than that on its own because the larger bubble is going to have more inaccuracies than the smaller one to begin with. But I would say if the swivel one has you worried get a fixed one and if that's too much of an issue then try shooting without one and see if you can hit something...

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

You didn't hear, it's the new gangsta lean we're all going to.

Check yo self fool

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I prefer the fixed USO (actually I prefer the internal ACD), but I have used the swivels just fine.

Halligan-I appreciate your candor and honest sharing of what your experence is. My question is this-since USO pretty much stands behind anything with their name on it, have you contacted them?

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

After reading several other post on the USO bubble, I went with the Hollands bubble scope mount. No problems, and 1/2 the price of a USO.

 

[468shot]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I have both the solid and swivel level and prefer the solid for the reasons stated above. Although, the slack in my swivel level is fairly minimal. It's easy to over-tighten them and warp them significantly out of level.

Another thing I've done is take a silver sharpy and make a narrow line across the vial where the true level is. This is easier for me to see and I know it's perfectly true.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Training wheels.

 

[offroadr1]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

yeah, mine works fine, but i dont really use it much anymore.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Training wheels.
</div></div>

Lets be realistic. There are very few professional long range precision shooters on here. Not everyone is a seasoned expert that does not need shooting aids and I expect we all use something in our gear somebody considers a training wheel.

 

[chris223]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I have had mine for over two years and its fine.

 

[partisan1911]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I mentioned my USO bubble level was off and others on this site claimed I was citing blasphemy! When I called USO they claimed the same. I ended up tossing the $90 level in my box of extra stuff I don't want to throw away but can't use. My USO scope has had no issues so I just drive on.

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Well put..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Training wheels.
</div></div>

Lets be realistic. There are very few professional long range precision shooters on here. Not everyone is a seasoned expert that does not need shooting aids and I expect we all use something in our gear somebody considers a training wheel. </div></div>

 

[softcock]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Hey the bubble can be & read where ever it wants on the swing-frame & it Does not matter .
ITS A BUBBLE that is in a swing-arm AND THAT'S ALL IT IS .
It is NOT A LEVEL . 'until' it Co-Witness the Erector . until then it is NOTHING but a bubble in a swing-arm .

Mount the swing-arm Bubble Level off your Scope Mount .
Put the Bubble in the level between the Lines .
Remove the cover of the Elevation knob & remove the Turret knob & Put a Spirit Directly Level on top the Erector .
Then Rotate the Scope in the Rings till Spirit level bubble is level .

NOW Both the Erector & the Swing-Arm level are on the Same note . The Swing-Arm Level is the Co-Whitnes to the level plane of the Erector system of your scope of choice .
.

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Wow. All in all you have every right to post your experience with said product. Thank you for doing so.

 

[softcock]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Swing-arm Bubble Level IS a pretty Sweet device that usoptics makes & it looks like 'most people typing' understand exactly nothing about the tool they purchased to aid there long distance shooting ?
.

 

[PittsDriver]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jackalope33B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading several other post on the USO bubble, I went with the Hollands bubble scope mount. No problems, and 1/2 the price of a USO. </div></div>

+1 and not dependant on the bubble mount itself being manufactured level. True the reticle on a distant plumb line, level the bubble and lock it down.

RT

 

[jbell]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You didn't hear, it's the new gangsta lean we're all going to.

Check yo self fool

</div></div>
Funny
I have never felt good about using mine. I always feel out of level when using it. But then agan maybe it does work and its telling me to "check my self"!

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey the bubble can be & read where ever it wants on the swing-frame & it Does not matter .
ITS A BUBBLE that is in a swing-arm AND THAT'S ALL IT IS .
It is NOT A LEVEL . 'until' it Co-Witness the Erector . until then it is NOTHING but a bubble in a swing-arm .

Mount the swing-arm Bubble Level off your Scope Mount .
Put the Bubble in the level between the Lines .
Remove the cover of the Elevation knob & remove the Turret knob & Put a Spirit Directly Level on top the Erector .
Then Rotate the Scope in the Rings till Spirit level bubble is level .

NOW Both the Erector & the Swing-Arm level are on the Same note . The Swing-Arm Level is the Co-Whitnes to the level plane of the Erector system of your scope of choice .
. </div></div>

This is an excellent deffinition of what makes it a VERY USEFULL TOOL.

"Level" your scope to it and use it as a reference. Works great when used properly.

 

[GardDog]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I have the tube mounted swivel model, that is very handy and has never failed. The rail mount wasn't feasible with my setup, so my vote is get a tube mounted one, you can always ensure it's level.

 

[maccrazy2]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mentioned my USO bubble level was off and others on this site claimed I was citing blasphemy! When I called USO they claimed the same. I ended up tossing the $90 level in my box of extra stuff I don't want to throw away but can't use. My USO scope has had no issues so I just drive on. </div></div>
$50 shipped and I will take it.

 

[lrs50bmg]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

With all due respect, leveling the scope erector tube/reticle to co-witness the USO swivel level does not cut it when you get out there at ELR distances. Not having the scope base, scope reticle and bubble level on on exactly the same plane will introduce error and inconsistencies. You are simply making yourself feel better about it. If the vertical reticle is not perfectly centered over the centerline of the bore, you will introduce horizontal error as you add elevation. Granted, while it is difficult to alter or adjust the "trueness" of the scope base, I believe it is likely a smaller source of error than canting a scope to match a un-true bubble level. I have nothing but respect for USO, but both of the USO swivel models I have were not true to the plane of the scope base. Therefore I decided to use other products. A great idea, just didn't work in practice for me.

 

[Falar]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

It seems from some of these posts people are trying to level their reticle with this bubble level?

I only use it to make sure my entire is rifle is as level as possible so that my windage holds are more accurate. I didn't think it was intended for anything else.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Training wheels.
</div></div>

Have to agree on that one . . .

 

[bm11]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems from some of these posts people are trying to level their reticle with this bubble level?

I only use it to make sure my entire is rifle is as level as possible so that my windage holds are more accurate. I didn't think it was intended for anything else. </div></div>But if the level itself is not level in relationship to the rifle (and reticle) then it is worse than useless.

I have experienced similar results with US Optics anti cant devices.

Glad someone else said something, as it is not the politically correct thing to do. However, a level that is not level in relation to the rifle, is of no use at all (and is not level at all.)

 

[partisan1911]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

So now I am confused. I level the scope to my rifle receiver and box test it to ensure they are aligned with each other. I then tried to use the USO level to ensure I am holding the rifle level which is when I noticed the USO level seemed off. I compared the USO level with four other levels I have around the house and found only the USO read different. It sounds like I everyone is saying I am wasting my time ensuring the rifle is level before I shoot?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

To paraphrase an old saying about watches, a guy with one level knows what's level. A guy with two levels will never be quite sure.

My experience has been that a level can be a valuable resource is a situation where one is shooting off a surface with a side-to-side angle, whether right-to-left or left-to-right. Otherwise, one is going to get the rifle where it <span style="font-style: italic">looks</span> level, whether it is or not.

Consistency is more important than accuracy.

 

[partisan1911]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

So then why level the scope to the rifle? Why don't you just get behind it and assume since the scope looks level it is level?

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So then why level the scope to the rifle? Why don't you just get behind it and assume since the scope looks level it is level? </div></div>

It is a natural human reaction to look to the appearance of level, whether it is or it isn't. The human eye does this instinctually. Does the rifle shoot consistanly, do you shoot consistantly? Will the level be a usefull tool to what you are doing, or is it a mental reassurance?

 

[softcock]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I guess I have been pretty lucky . I have had 5 of the swing-arm bubbles and like I said in the post above . all I do is put them on the Rail along with leveling the Erector & it all been GTG.
plus, I always drop a plumb out @ 100 yrd to check the Reticule & co-witness of the bubble-level to the Leveled Erector & every usoptics swing-arm bubble has been right-on with my rifles . I never have had any problems with the swing-arm design & them being made incorrectly .
They all have been 'right-on' in the co-witness of my scopes Reticule/ erector systems .

I did have ONE swing-arm I did send back to USoptic. for them to replace . But NOT that it was not usable as a leveling tool . it was because it was leaking fluid and the air-bubble grew in size .
.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

Lefties gotta use the fixed levels anyway, the swivel partly folds up under recoil if it's on the righthand side.

 

[tullius]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I generally like what Lindy says above, but if those two levels are machinist grade, calibrated, and properly utilized, then the accuracy of those two levels together is definitively better than one. And plumb bobs set out beyond 60 yds. err not enough to matter.

Here's the deal: those that live or shoot in level country are able to easily reference level off the horizon. Those that don't, when hunting or shooting at targets that are not plumb nor have anything in view that is plumb, most probably won't. I tend to naturally reference off the slope I'm laying on, and I've found a level helps me to better achieve repeatability at long range, especially when shooting off the side of a hill.

Doesn't matter if you use a $12 B-Square or an $85 USO, they almost certainly WILL be off-level with the receiver if you don't otherwise correct them. Either shim them level with the receiver (preferred), or record their cant. Then use 'em. Levels help the vast majority of shooters shoot better at significant distances.

 

[ronas]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I had problem with mine when purchased new from Optics Planet. I returned it no questions asked and they sent return label for me to use.

I now use Holland and am quite happy with same.


Below is the exact problem I had with level and what I told the vendor.

"As I stated the product is defective because when it is swiveled 45 degrees to the position it need to be for use the bubble capsule swivels has to much freeplay to allow the bubble to consistently indicate a level position."

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I can't belive some of the downgrading I'm seeing here. If some find such a thing a way to develope a bad habit or a crutch for a bad shooting position then please give the newer shooters the advice, but don't degrade someone for trying to improve there shooting ability. IMO

 

[partisan1911]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

So according to the posts I shouldn't be using a level because it is a crutch, otherwise mount the level and adjust the scope to the level? I am a novice shooter at best but I thought I was doing the right thing?

The rifle I am using is a 338L built on a Nesika action with a Nightforce scope and I ensured the reticle adjusts true when I start adjusting the turrets. So far I can shoot it consistently.

I originally bought the USO level after mounting the scope but since I had to <span style="font-style: italic">cant</span> the rifle to ensure the bubble reads correctly I exchanged it for a level that I can adjust to the rifle.

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

I love USO, but I had the same basic experience as the OP with their swivel level. After playing with it, I do not think that the bubble level is really much of an effective improvement over my natural kinesthetic sense (there is a rare case in high-altitudes, above the cloud deck, where it could still prove useful). My solution was to sell it.

Next, I tried the Deros Level Grouse. That thing is amazing. Not training wheels. It is VERY sensitive, to the point of being much more effective than my unassisted senses. I found that the L-brackets that are sold for mounting them have to be shimmed in order to be mounted level with a rail, so I've taken to mounting DLGs right on the scope tube using an ARMS QD ring so they can be removed easily.

There are two problems with the DLG. The first is that Alamo Four Star is a terrible company with abysmal customer service. Fortunately Phoenix Tactical has stepped in to provide a reliable channel for their merchandise.

The second problem with the DLG is that they're really not very durable. I had one disassemble itself in my gun case when I was moving. It was mounted to a Barrett M95, and the little switch just couldn't handle the forces involved pressing up against the foam. (I sent it back to the black hole that is Alamo Four Star and never heard from it again.) That certainly doesn't bode well for field work! Since then I went with the ARMS rings and carry them separately from my rifles. They are nice for trips to the range, but perhaps not to be relied upon in a SHTF scenario.

A third problem (yes I know I said two problems and I could easily edit my post, but I digress...) is that I can't imagine trying to change the batteries on a DLG anywhere but at my workbench with a set of needle-nose pliers, some dental pics, and a shit ton of patience.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: Avoid US Optics anti-cant device

if you ask any handyman what a bubble level means to them, they will say "its a tool".

Use it when you mount your scope and as reference when you are on an uneven ground.

If you know the bubble level is broken, send it back. I'm sure USO will take good care of you.

Mine has been working fine.

 

[Aqua Mark]

US Optics anti-cant device

The USO level with the swing arm may need to be calibrated by turning the allen screw. If it is out of spec or you can't get it right by turning the screw, send it back and get a different one, or the fixed one. A level on a 'swing arm' is by design made for a field rifle to be tucked out of the way, and by having moving parts, its not going to be as accurate or consistent as the fixed style levels.

Having said that, I believe USO is coming out with a new version of that model with a detent system, which should be more accurate and consistent.

With the new USO scopes having the 'bubble in the main tube' option, there won't be external levels to deal with.