Used Remington rifles sold as new at Bass Pro?

[jcmullis2]

My shooting buddy just purchased a Remington 700 at ass pro and it had all the appearances of a used rifle.
He brought it over to show it off and to have me put a scope on it. He’s got big ol meat hooks for hands and the tiny hardware can get the best of him. The scope base holes in the action didn’t have the tiny screws in them and a couple had blue lock tite in them. The bolt face and the barrel both had evidence of being fired and not cleaned. I know Remington used to test fire their rifles but I’m not sure if they still do. I am sure they don’t lock tite scopes on their stuff though. He really likes his “new” baby so I just passed it off as no big deal and we’ll see how it shoots tomorrow. If it’s a POS ass pro will have tried to screw the wrong guy. His baby brother is a detective and can find that stuff out by running it’s serial number through the national database. Even though it’s said that the government doesn’t keep track of such info they do. I know this for a fact because I’ve seen it with my own two eyes.
Is it legal for them to sell a returned/used rifle as new without disclosing that information? Has anyone else come across this type of thing before?
Thanks for any and all input on this.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

this thread has potential.....

 

[Steel head]

this thread has potential.....

 

[Kir]

Can't wait to read the results...

Bass Pro and Cabelas are basically same store, different name as I understand it, but I could be wrong. Anyways, sorry to hear your buddy might have gotten a bad deal and it gets resolved to his satisfaction.
I have purchased two firearms from Cabelas Reno and might have purchased more from them, but they are a little ways out of town and Scheels is much closer as are several other LGS that I have purchased from. My second purchase was a new Ruger GP-100 and it is great. My first purchase was a used Remington 597 in .22 Magnum. It was in great condition. Original price was $250 and I got it for $200. The stock was all weather composite and the inside of the barrel looked very clean and after I purchased it and inspected it better it was like it had hardly been used. Of course it had the same problems as I later found out with the magazines but after purchasing the version III, I still had problems until a fellow member suggested I change out the extractor for a Voltquartsen and all the FTF and FTE cleared up. Truth be told, I did not investigate the rifle prior to purchasing, I was more interested in getting a .22 Magnum then anything else. I guess I was just lucky and it worked out to be a great deal for me. Over the years, I have learned to be a little more selective and do some better examining of the firearm I want to get. Just wanted to pass on my experience until you hear from your buddy. I have heard the Rem 700 is a good rifle and I hope it works out for him.

 

[Sniperstud]

I’m interested in what type of information you have seen in this national database, and how you came to access it.

 

[jcmullis2]

I’m interested in what type of information you have seen in this national database, and how you came to access it.

I was briefly detained by border patrol at their check point on I-10 outside El Paso for small amount of medical marijuana a few years back. During their search of my rv they discovered I had several firearms also. Them fellas were nearly druelling as they carted my “babies“ into their station. Standard question, “ do these belong to you”. Of course they do, I told them. I sat there while they ran each one and verified they were mine. They got to the one my ex wife had bought me years earlier, before we got married, and told me it wasn’t coming back as mine. I had to think a minute and told them that it was a 1994 Xmas present and my ex wife’s maiden name. Then all was good and they let me go on my way. I honestly was expecting to be treated pretty bad but they were very professional. Really a nice group of guys, very kind and respectful. All of them seemed to be avid shooters too. They did however keep my current wife’s high grade Cali medicine.
From what I understand the sales records kept by individual FFLs aren’t supposed to be retained but you can bet your bottom dollar they keep the information from their required background checks. Ever notice that when you order a firearm the FFL doesn’t do the background check until they have the weapon in hand and the serial number is verified as accurate? There’s no doubt there’s a federal database. How they are allowed to use that information against us in court proceedings is the only question. I don’t have a problem with it myself but others may.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Possibly factory reconditioned?
Mine came dirty (test rounds dirty), but cleaned right up and can't wait to get the 1st grouping in. Hope to post pics if things are gtg.

 

[pmclaine]

But how is the timing of the primary extraction?

 

[Badfinger]

Some of these stores just suck, I had a salesman at Gander Mountain try to sell me an obviously used Colt .45 ACP for more than the new one twenty feet down the display.

 

[LiveToDrive]

It could be new even if a scope was mounted. I'm not sure if Remington test fires rifles, but I know Cabela's and Bass pro will often mount optics and accessories to rifles and try to sell them as a package. They did it to a brand new MRAD at the Cabela's by me. I couldn't believe it. They used the most expensive scope they had, the cheapest rings and a knock off harris. Gouged the shit out of the rifle. They had it set up like that for a while. They did it to a Savage 338 back when those big tank looking versions first came out also. New guns, but after they stripped them back down, they looked like crap.

 

[fdkay]

I was briefly detained by border patrol at their check point on I-10 outside El Paso for small amount of medical marijuana a few years back. During their search of my rv they discovered I had several firearms also. Them fellas were nearly druelling as they carted my “babies“ into their station. Standard question, “ do these belong to you”. Of course they do, I told them. I sat there while they ran each one and verified they were mine. They got to the one my ex wife had bought me years earlier, before we got married, and told me it wasn’t coming back as mine. I had to think a minute and told them that it was a 1994 Xmas present and my ex wife’s maiden name. Then all was good and they let me go on my way. I honestly was expecting to be treated pretty bad but they were very professional. Really a nice group of guys, very kind and respectful. All of them seemed to be avid shooters too. They did however keep my current wife’s high grade Cali medicine.
From what I understand the sales records kept by individual FFLs aren’t supposed to be retained but you can bet your bottom dollar they keep the information from their required background checks. Ever notice that when you order a firearm the FFL doesn’t do the background check until they have the weapon in hand and the serial number is verified as accurate? There’s no doubt there’s a federal database. How they are allowed to use that information against us in court proceedings is the only question. I don’t have a problem with it myself but others may.

ATF trace only reveals what the LAST FFL filed. It doesn't reveal previous owners.
We have used it when we recover a firearm that was never entered into NCIC as stolen because the victim didn't know the serial number.

 

[jrhtx]

In Texas, FFL only gives NICS that you are buying a long gun/handgun. No SN information is supplied. If you have a CHL no call is made so they have no info on the transaction at all until a FFL closes his business.

If a FFL closes the business, paper records are sent to a warehouse, I forget where. I don't know what happens to electronic records. The law says this information is not suppose to be collected and put on data bases to be searchable, I have my doubts. I have heard rumors that it is happening.

If a gun is found, it can be traced from the manufacture, to the distributor, to the dealer, to the first buyer. After the first buyer, it depends on state law on what the records requirements are. Again, in Texas, no requirement as a individual seller to keep records on who you sold a gun to.
"I sold it at the gun show last year. Don't have a name or address, some old biker guy. He looked OK."

If there is an issue, ATF can call, or appear at your FFL business to ask who bought Glock 19, SN 12345. You have to search your records to see who bought it and probably provide a copy of the 4473. I was a dealer for over 25 years and never had a trace call.

IF you get stopped and they run the SN the only information I know they can get is "is the gun stolen". I had a compliance check 10 years(?) ago and she pulled a random handgun from my books a guy bought off Gunbroker. The SN came back stolen. She said I couldn't call and tell the buyer. He was using the gun as a carry piece. If he was stopped the gun would come back stolen and he would be in trouble. ATF didn't seem to care, couldn't tell him. Never heard anther word about the gun and it was not taken from the owner. There is no data base that has all guns listed by SN and owner, yet.

 

[Kamerad]

In Texas, FFL only gives NICS that you are buying a long gun/handgun. No SN information is supplied. If you have a CHL no call is made so they have no info on the transaction at all until a FFL closes his business.

If a FFL closes the business, paper records are sent to a warehouse, I forget where. I don't know what happens to electronic records. The law says this information is not suppose to be collected and put on data bases to be searchable, I have my doubts. I have heard rumors that it is happening.

If a gun is found, it can be traced from the manufacture, to the distributor, to the dealer, to the first buyer. After the first buyer, it depends on state law on what the records requirements are. Again, in Texas, no requirement as a individual seller to keep records on who you sold a gun to.
"I sold it at the gun show last year. Don't have a name or address, some old biker guy. He looked OK."

If there is an issue, ATF can call, or appear at your FFL business to ask who bought Glock 19, SN 12345. You have to search your records to see who bought it and probably provide a copy of the 4473. I was a dealer for over 25 years and never had a trace call.

IF you get stopped and they run the SN the only information I know they can get is "is the gun stolen". I had a compliance check 10 years(?) ago and she pulled a random handgun from my books a guy bought off Gunbroker. The SN came back stolen. She said I couldn't call and tell the buyer. He was using the gun as a carry piece. If he was stopped the gun would come back stolen and he would be in trouble. ATF didn't seem to care, couldn't tell him. Never heard anther word about the gun and it was not taken from the owner. There is no data base that has all guns listed by SN and owner, yet.

I have a used gun arriving at my FFL today, purchased from an individual off of gunbroker. How would I verify that it’s not stolen, as in your example? Call local LEO with info?

To OP, does the sales receipt indicate the purchased firearm is new or used?

 

[fdkay]

I have a used gun arriving at my FFL today, purchased from an individual off of gunbroker. How would I verify that it’s not stolen, as in your example? Call local LEO with info?

To OP, does the sales receipt indicate the purchased firearm is new or used?

You can ask your local LEO.
They may or may not do it for you.

 

[Kamerad]

You can ask your local LEO.
They may or may not do it for you.

Thanks.

 

[jrhtx]

You can ask your local LEO.
They may or may not do it for you.

Problem is if it is stolen then the LEO has to take some action. Someone may ask questions as to why they ran the SN. My example was a freak one of that she would have picked that gun. Pages and pages of guns she oils have picked. I even had copies of the auction attached to the 4473 (ocd on the paperwork)

LEO May need to comment here but they may have to have a reason to run a SN. Kind of like they aren’t supposed to run license plates without a reason.

 

[jcmullis2]

In Texas, FFL only gives NICS that you are buying a long gun/handgun. No SN information is supplied. If you have a CHL no call is made so they have no info on the transaction at all until a FFL closes his business.

If a FFL closes the business, paper records are sent to a warehouse, I forget where. I don't know what happens to electronic records. The law says this information is not suppose to be collected and put on data bases to be searchable, I have my doubts. I have heard rumors that it is happening.

If a gun is found, it can be traced from the manufacture, to the distributor, to the dealer, to the first buyer. After the first buyer, it depends on state law on what the records requirements are. Again, in Texas, no requirement as a individual seller to keep records on who you sold a gun to.
"I sold it at the gun show last year. Don't have a name or address, some old biker guy. He looked OK."

If there is an issue, ATF can call, or appear at your FFL business to ask who bought Glock 19, SN 12345. You have to search your records to see who bought it and probably provide a copy of the 4473. I was a dealer for over 25 years and never had a trace call.

IF you get stopped and they run the SN the only information I know they can get is "is the gun stolen". I had a compliance check 10 years(?) ago and she pulled a random handgun from my books a guy bought off Gunbroker. The SN came back stolen. She said I couldn't call and tell the buyer. He was using the gun as a carry piece. If he was stopped the gun would come back stolen and he would be in trouble. ATF didn't seem to care, couldn't tell him. Never heard anther word about the gun and it was not taken from the owner. There is no data base that has all guns listed by SN and owner, yet.

You definitely seem to have a in depth understanding of this stuff. I just have what I’ve shared with y’all. I know they were able to verify I owned those firearms. I was the original owner of all but the one that my ex had bought and they verified that info too. One of the weapons had been purchased in the late 80’s. I don’t know who the federal government grants access to the information, but the US border patrol darn sure accessed it. The only place the info could’ve come from was the purchase. I’m not a lawyer but I know the government does whatever they want and laws and rules be damned. They routinely get caught and exposed by whistle blowers. If people choose to believe Uncle Sam plays by the rules that’s on them. I choose to see things as they are not as they’re supposed to be. I appreciate the information about the way gun purchases are done in Texas. I might pick me up a new rifle on my way home from California in a few months and do a little varmint shooting.

 

[jcmullis2]

ATF trace only reveals what the LAST FFL filed. It doesn't reveal previous owners.
We have used it when we recover a firearm that was never entered into NCIC as stolen because the victim didn't know the serial number.

That

ATF trace only reveals what the LAST FFL filed. It doesn't reveal previous owners.
We have used it when we recover a firearm that was never entered into NCIC as stolen because the victim didn't know the serial number.

That’s a definite possibility and makes sense to me as all of the weapons had been purchased new by me or my ex. It sounds like you have a first hand knowledge in this. Us average joes dont know how these things work. We’re left with the misleading half truths the government puts out. We’re told that the government doesn’t keep track of firearm sales when obviously they do. We see it on tv and the movies all the time and most of us have friends and family that work in law enforcement. They know first hand such information is on a searchable database because they use it to catch the bad guys.
I appreciate your explanation, it helps make sense of this stuff.